Which Quadra values are you critical of the most?

I feel like you "supervise" the quadra that is precede your own, while you get "supervised" by the quadra that succeed yours. So Alphas feel supervised by Beta, then Beta by Gamma, Gamma by Delta, Delta by Alpha. And this does not have to do with your actual Supervisor/supervisee existing in their quadra or not.

So for me, it feels like this:

Alpha: I pretty much agree with Alpha quadra values, like constant free-flow of information, "democracy" and making a nice environment. I have no problem or criticism here... Alpha is just like "whatever"... I feel like I'd be "supervising" Alpha. It's like "Come on, hurry up and make something useful, Alphas!" :P

Beta: The obvious problem with Beta is, authoritarianism, the monarchy, the monolithic state, the evil empire. They are not democratic. It seems to bring the worst of humanity and the basest and crudest desire of mankind, that is the thirst and quest for power and making others subservient. But it can also go the other way, like some Betas, especially the extroverts are usually furiously and hysterically attacking against "injustices" of the world. They are not exactly cowards.

Gamma: I don't really agree with Gamma values at all, except for their "democracy". Gammas are simply put, too greedy. Also, they are very crude, unrefined and unsophisticated. At least the Deltas are more refined and sophisticated. And yet, I feel like I'm "supervised" by Gamma, like their Se is much more powerful than Beta Se. I also feel like Gammas think of Betas as being "whatever".

Delta: I kind of agree with Delta values, like their "egalitarianism", their need for stability, for things to be proper and perfect, for things to just be working more smoothly and efficiently, their perfectionism, their refinement and sophistication. I don't agree with their work ethics, and I don't agree with their pride, their need for moral superiority, lack of dramatic emotional expression. Delta is "look, but don't touch. Admire from afar". I feel neither supervising nor supervised by Delta. Kind of an admiration, kind of an annoyance.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...cs-Four-Quadra

See the part that says "Perception of other quadras" for each quadra.

Deltas seem wise and I feel like I have useful things to learn from them, but I think it comes at the expense of retirement from the world in a spiritual sense... they feel fully capable but also like they've given up, so while they could make things better they're content to just comfortably get by.

Alphas seem content to play with their legos and have sex with their moms, and are thus harmless but also mostly pointless.

Betas seem like the source of most the problems in the world mainly rooted in their perverse values (far more perverse than the harmless alphas)--they give off a disgusting sexual vibe in everything they do, even their nuns and especially their priests and politicians

Gammas are rough around the edges but it feels like they're really in good faith trying for the right stuff, which basically makes them a beacon of hope to me

in short:

• deltas know the right things, perhaps best of all, but aren't really trying
• betas are evil, and try hard
• alphas are neutral, not really aiming at anything nor making their force felt

That betas, for the most part, suck at knowing whats important and prioritizing it over lesser values. But the authoritarian, non democratic way of running their surroundings, I think its a good thing.

I have mixed feelings towards every quadra, including my own. Alphas are great fun, but ILEs can be annoying and obnoxious--they are among my best friends but when I encounter ones I don't know I get an 'obnoxious little sibling' feeling, even if they are older. They often brag about their ability to 'manipulate' people which is absolutely hilarious! I am very fond of LIIs and ESEs, and always find myself drawn to SEIs.

Betas I both admire the most and despise the most. They can be poetic and beautiful, the leaders we need in times of revolution but also the tyrants who keep us from ascending beyond petty feuding and power-struggles. I enjoy observing from afar and am always drawn to the mysterious aristocratic power of EIEs, and obviously the writing and poetry of many IEIs.

Gammas. I am somewhat envious of Gamma's SeNi. I also used to always admire/envy SEEs, they were my main study for advancing social skills when I was younger, 'like-me-but-natural,' because of not being in their heads so much. I don't worry too much about the greed of Gamma because 'they know not what they do' and even when it looks personal (like for ESIs), it isn't really, it's a reaction I understand.

Delta values are cool. A lot of IEEs annoy me actually when I see them taking my niche, or when they strive for places I wanted to go, but decided not to. LSEs (present company excluded) seem to have very little self-awareness or understanding of others, and so buy into all these weird systems written by a half-mad IEE or other NF type (like Zodiac signs for instance). However, they do this because of a beautiful desire to connect on a deep level, and bad experiences they all seem to have of being rejected and blind-sided. When I see this in them I am filled with affection. EIIs are great, although both can over-simplify the world, they don't force this down everyone's throat the way Betas do. The values of SLI, my goodness, how underestimated by the world they are! Beyond this I cannot share my secrets ;)

So in answer... pre-Socionics knowledge, I would probably say Beta, but now I like to think I am equally critical of and appreciative towards each Quadra. Maybe an implicit bias test would draw out the truth though ;)

Replace critical with non-accepting and I'm in!

My perception of quadra values is as follows:


Alpha: I generally find alpha values boring, chiefly because it seems their primary life plot point is about talking, and not acting. Their focus on pleasant conversation and atmosphere, as well as their reluctance to put any personal stand (Fi) behind anything is uninteresting to me. This also leads to a lot of “PC” culture and careful speech. There is also an emphasis on the theoretical over the practical. This is the point at which things become so overly complicated and systematic that Beta's have to come along and take over so we can start destroying “the system”.


Beta: For the most part I like betas. I like the focus on action, I respect the adherence to principles, I even enjoy the flamboyant expression at times. These folks make me feel like life is interesting. I recall the quote from game of thrones “Chaos isn't a pit, it's a ladder”. I think of betas as the start of the chaos, from which ladders appear to rise. As betas break down the system, all the sheep are left without the simple life-guide flow chart that alphas made and passed out, and are forced to show what the can actually do and figure out. My problem with betas is the strict authoritarianism and the lack of ability to communicate naturally as equals. It's always hierarchical.


Gamma: Obviously I like gamma values. I think we are a bit crude and direct, tend to lack tact at times, but are overall more effective for it. I honestly think gamma quadra is chiefly about effectiveness with respect to goals and business initiatives. I naturally (of course) think that the world is a place of individuals who should at all times be seeking out and acting in their own best interests, or the best interests of their close friends and family. I think that makes gammas appear selfish, but I don't know whether that is right or wrong.


Delta: Deltas always feel like the ones ill be passing the empire on to. People who will carry on business in a similar way to me, but are less likely to do anything threatening. Probably won't stab me in the back. Typically I see them as hard working and capable, but totally lacking in ambition. With the NF's there in particular I see this as a weakness, though sometimes they seem to overcome it. There seems to be no limit to the pleasure seeking and hedonism of deltas, to the point that I think it is unhealthy. In summary: good business initiatives, but less than favorable idealism about the world, and their impact on it.

Average results based on an average sample of, like, two meatspace people per quadra:

Basically, while Fi works in mysterious ways, the cake is taken by Si-valuing. It's like the physical environment keeps shifting in a jarring sort of way, most especially around Si-cre types. SEIs on the other hand keep telling me to slow down, quiet down, take it easy in a very irrelevant sort of way -- but at least I can just ignore them!

More extensively:

Alpha: nice. *shrug* SEI: good company, fun jokes and mood. Stop telling me to slow down, I'm on a roll here. ESE: Ask me BEFORE touching my stuff, even if you had a good idea.

Beta: Like my jokes, we usually end up on the same page about whether we like each other or not. They work hard and, bless their dictatorial little hearts, stick to the plan unless actively renegotiated. :bighug:

Gamma: Cool, but their sense of relational closeness works in confusing ways. :confused:

Delta: I have a lot of feelings about Delta. They'd be so cool if only they were different people. :shifty:

LSE: Stop moving shit around. Stop rearranging the shit you just moved around. Stop throwing out everything that isn't bolted down. STOP CLEANING. Stop looking vaguely hopeful about being close, can't you see it's just not going to happen? Yes, you should probably call your boyfriend.
SLI: Stop curling up and disappearing when I express appreciation. Stop looking confused when I stop expressing appreciation.
IEE: You have really cool ideas and a really interesting worldview. Please stop being hungry at people.
EII: Dunno, looks boring from a distance.

The Irrationals have a very decentralised way of hanging out which takes some getting used to. They're generally either confusing or appreciable though, or at least the kind of person I really wished I liked because they're cool, but the spark just ain't there. *tiny violin*

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...cs-Four-Quadra

See the part that says "Perception of other quadras" for each quadra.

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Copying and pasting the perception alphas have of other quadras:

Beta:
*Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun -- agree
*With a bit of an edge -- yes, often more than I am comfortable with
*And often too inclined to be a bit bossy -- with the beta STs, yes
*In social situations Alphas usually resign the lead to Betas on the basis that Betas "care more" -- sometimes, but more often it is because the betas are more 'forceful' due to the valued Se and it can be hard to resist their 'pressure'
*At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid -- mostly just the beta STs

Addendum: I tend to find beta NFs a bit overdramatic at times and overly expressing of negative emotions

Gamma:
*Tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations -- sometimes. Moreso with ILI and ESI.
*Inclined to play favorites with those they know better or are attracted to. -- I haven't noticed this much.
*Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words -- Yes
*Generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future -- mostly the ESI and the ILI (too worried- something bad *will* happen)
*Having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness -- Mostly gamma SF here

Addendum: I sometimes get the impression that gammas are too quick to shut down ideas they don't quite understand or don't have an obvious tangible benefit. I see this in all of the gamma types. I must add that I greatly respect gammas for their pragmatic abilities and getting things done and implemented.

Delta:
*Tend to regard Gamma types as kindly and creative -- Yes, except I don't tend to get that impression with LSE
*A bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others -- sometimes


Overall, I tend to have the most favorable impression of delta among the quadras other than my own. I have an EII 'subtype' after all. Overall, I tend to be equally critical of gammas and betas in different ways.

I will also add my impression of alphas (my own quadra):
*Enjoys lighthearted type of fun but nothing too edgy that would potentially cause controversy or offense to others
*Enjoys spontaneously coming up with new ideas and theories as well as exploring them even those that are not very practical. They just like to imagine different 'what if' scenarios, even if not very likely in reality.
*Enjoy the simple sensory pleasures of life. Can truly take time to 'smell the roses' and enjoy every second of it. Something that's often overlooked by the decisive quadras.
*Atmosphere is everything. If someone causes bad feelings in them, they are likely to be perceived as a 'bad person.'
*On the negative side, can be too concerned with present enjoyment and their personal comfort at the expense of longer term considerations. Can be underachievers in life even with lots of great ideas because they too often overlook the more pragmatic side and can be unwilling to forcefully discipline themselves and others to 'make things happen.'

Deltas. The ones I know, that is. They criticize me first, I wouldn't even give two shits about them but they tend to step on my toes and get in my way so they can can feel in control of me, they see me as haphazard and TOO independent and feel the need to "keep me in line for my own good" as if I really care about upsetting their equilibrium and causing the apocalypse. Any delta acting like this can blow it out their ass.

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

Deltas. The ones I know, that is. They criticize me first, I wouldn't even give two shits about them but they tend to step on my toes and get in my way so they can can feel in control of me, they see me as haphazard and TOO independent and feel the need to "keep me in line for my own good" as if I really care about upsetting their equilibrium and causing the apocalypse. Any delta acting like this can blow it out their ass.

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Yeah, FUCK Deltas! I don't give a FUCK about nobody! YEA! JOHN CENA BABY

But in all seriousness I'm sorry the Deltas you know are like that. Can you give an example of what they do (particularly if IEE/SLI)?

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

Deltas. The ones I know, that is. They criticize me first, I wouldn't even give two shits about them but they tend to step on my toes and get in my way so they can can feel in control of me, they see me as haphazard and TOO independent and feel the need to "keep me in line for my own good" as if I really care about upsetting their equilibrium and causing the apocalypse. Any delta acting like this can blow it out their ass.

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Interesting notion since your enneagram type also plays into it omg but it makes sense :eek: I experienced it the other way around with Beta types who want to interfere with my E3 business hierarchy-wise. Tie! :lol: :thumbsup:

Alpha - The value descriptions I've seen have painted a pretty vague picture of this quadra to me, little more than a "Mean Girls" scenario with which I can't identify at all, minus the hatred of being outcast and/or silenced. In theory, Alphas don't value anything objectionable to me and the quadra as a whole seems superficially more interesting than Delta, but in practice real Alphas are still cunts to me just like Betas and Gammas.


Beta - I like the edge and the melodrama -- it's a lot less dry of a quadra than Gamma. In a vacuum, I'd say these couple traits are the ones with which I identify most strongly. They're the only quadra that seems to vibe with that "chaotic evil" element I see in myself. But the strict social hierarchy is a dealbreaker. I consider it my mortal enemy and the hoary sin I've sworn to destroy.


Gamma - Overall, the quadra values I identify least with. Dry, sterile, merciless with any behaviors or individuals that fail to fall in line with their standards. ILIs especially, in unhealthy states, come off as the most toxic people alive and will follow you like a bloodhound if you give them a reason to begrudge you. The Democratic values are the only thing that redeems them in my eyes, since their hierarchies are at least more rational in foundation than Beta's shameless nepotism.


Delta - Meh, but better than any of the Se-valuing quadra. Their values (along with some of the Betans') sound best to me on paper, but in practice these people come off as standoffish and lowkey judgmental even though they're supposed to value creativity and self-expression. IEEs are among the few people on this Earth who can seem to handle me. Kill the STs with fire though.

These are just idealized conceptions. In reality, craziness and fucked-upness is quadra-indifferent and context-specific. Probably type-reliant and a function of situational inadequacy. I can't say I disagree fundamentally with any quadra strengths, since they all tend to be useful for humans at one point or another, and they all have their own perilous ends... It's when our perception is so brashly warped against the grain and wisdom needed of the context that causes issues.

In that light, I'll list a collection of positive and negative qualities I've noticed displayed in different contexts by different individuals in each quadra. You might notice that some of these are linked to certain subsets of that quadra.

Alpha:

Pros:
Helpful
Friendly
Have an answer or a question (can think outside of the box)


Cons:
Lazy
Undecided
Inspire guilt
Irrational

Beta:

Pros:
Discerning
Inspiring
Brilliant above others

Cons:
Stuck-up
Drawn towards excluding and hating others

Gamma:

Pros:
Honest
Direct
Won't hold rank against you

Cons:
Willingness to throw under the bus
Self-centric attitude

Delta:

Pros:
Maintain face
Reliably there doing what needs to be done

Cons:
Sterile
Contradictory
Very unable to think outside of the box
Complacent

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Originally Posted by Nehtaro

Yeah, FUCK Deltas! I don't give a FUCK about nobody! YEA! JOHN CENA BABY

But in all seriousness I'm sorry the Deltas you know are like that. Can you give an example of what they do (particularly if IEE/SLI)?

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The first part made me lol, not gonna lie. When deltas at my job (who are my equals) act like supervisors, ask me questions that are none of their business, tries to go over stuff me and the manager already discussed and took care of (things that wouldn't even effect them anyway). Things of that nature. Mind you, a couple of them may have legitimate personality disorders that make them goofy. I have an issues with my equals watching me like a hawk and playing mind games with me. 2 ladies in particular are sewn at the hip and love to fuck with me all day everyday. One is a INFj type 1, the other is and ESTj type 1 (I think shes a one, she might be a 2) and they HATE me with a fiery passion and don't even try to hide it. I never did anything to them, they just have some personal beefs with me and they like to mess with my actual work and undermine me. The 3rd delta at my job is leaving soon and that's great, I think she's a type 1 as well and an ESTj, possibly an ESFj.

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Originally Posted by Chae

Interesting notion since your enneagram type also plays into it omg but it makes sense :eek: I experienced it the other way around with Beta types who want to interfere with my E3 business hierarchy-wise. Tie! :lol: :thumbsup:

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Yeah, some betas are fucked in the head and even I can't stand them. Betas often conflict with their own quadra. It would be interesting to see how that works, beta vs. the IEE-Ne 378 SX/SO

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

Yeah, some betas are fucked in the head and even I can't stand them. Betas often conflict with their own quadra. It would be interesting to see how that works, beta vs. the IEE-Ne 378 SX/SO

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Good points! Yes, as a :Se: quadra that's the program anyway, unless the IEIs dominate whatever setting it is :oops:

Ok, I try to see through it: I'm a 3w4, hence I either adjust my character or withdraw. Direct confrontation is not likely unless it went through my filters of 3 (does it give me rep?) and 7 (does it make me feel good, are there no harmful consequences?). 8 comes out when there's true injustice, you remember me angrily going through your dating list. Best example, I suppose you know the feeling yourself as an 8? Being A SX/SO - not SX/SP, mistyped - I consider group peace and shaking things up differently rather than starting a battle that nobody benefits from, even if I hate everything that's currently going on (contraflow). I'm confident in emotional guidance and image management so that's how I go about it. Now I'm curious, how does the LSI-Se 836 SP/SX vs Delta scenario play out?

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Originally Posted by Chae

Good points! Yes, as a :Se: quadra that's the program anyway, unless the IEIs dominate whatever setting it is :oops:

Ok, I try to see through it: I'm a 3w4, hence I either adjust my character or withdraw. Direct confrontation is not likely unless it went through my filters of 3 (does it give me rep?) and 7 (does it make me feel good, are there no harmful consequences?). 8 comes out when there's true injustice, you remember me angrily going through your dating list. Best example, I suppose you know the feeling yourself as an 8? Being A SX/SO - not SX/SP, mistyped - I consider group peace and shaking things up differently rather than starting a battle that nobody benefits from, even if I hate everything that's currently going on (contraflow). I'm confident in emotional guidance and image management so that's how I go about it. Now I'm curious, how does the LSI-Se 836 SP/SX vs Delta scenario play out?

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Very interesting explanation. Funny thing is, my conflictor is ENFp, but I get along with them much more than INFj, INFjs and me are like oil and water, especially if they are enneagram 1, good lord. Here's my story: I will be minding my own business doing what I do best, and that is whatever I want (within reason, of course). This includes dress how I want, say what I want, live how I want, and chill out in the process, I don't take things so serious and I have clear personal boundaries that I've made for myself and I enforce them when encroached upon. So Deltas come along and start and try to indirectly tell me I need to do everything I'm doing in -their- way because my way is wrong, but they can't just come out and say it. It's like a passive aggression I've picked up on and I feel it right in my solar plexus (my guts) when they are talking sideways to me because they disagree with me, usually on a moral issue or lifestyle issue their Fi kicks in and whatever is happening in their heads I could not tell you. I can not turn their Fi into my Ti, it will never compute, ever. I'll think we are cool and then they start avoiding me and giving me dirty looks and I won't be able to understand what I did to trigger their Fi flare-up. They always disapprove of me, but I never try to win them back over so they are left standing there holding their disapproval waiting for me to come back (to read their minds, perhaps?) but I'm off doing my thing looking content as can be. It seems the more I ignore deltas the harder they try to provoke me, nothing happens, then at some point I get assertive with them, call them out, tell them I know what they are trying to do, and then they flare up like "how dare you!!!" and then I feel great afterwards and their resentment builds.

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

Deltas. The ones I know, that is. They criticize me first, I wouldn't even give two shits about them but they tend to step on my toes and get in my way so they can can feel in control of me, they see me as haphazard and TOO independent and feel the need to "keep me in line for my own good" as if I really care about upsetting their equilibrium and causing the apocalypse. Any delta acting like this can blow it out their ass.

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With what sort of things do they try to "keep you in line for your own good"?

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

Very interesting explanation. Funny thing is, my conflictor is ENFp, but I get along with them much more than INFj, INFjs and me are like oil and water, especially if they are enneagram 1, good lord. Here's my story: I will be minding my own business doing what I do best, and that is whatever I want (within reason, of course). This includes dress how I want, say what I want, live how I want, and chill out in the process, I don't take things so serious and I have clear personal boundaries that I've made for myself and I enforce them when encroached upon. So Deltas come along and start and try to indirectly tell me I need to do everything I'm doing in -their- way because my way is wrong, but they can't just come out and say it. It's like a passive aggression I've picked up on and I feel it right in my solar plexus (my guts) when they are talking sideways to me because they disagree with me, usually on a moral issue or lifestyle issue their Fi kicks in and whatever is happening in their heads I could not tell you. I can not turn their Fi into my Ti, it will never compute, ever. I'll think we are cool and then they start avoiding me and giving me dirty looks and I won't be able to understand what I did to trigger their Fi flare-up. They always disapprove of me, but I never try to win them back over so they are left standing there holding their disapproval waiting for me to come back (to read their minds, perhaps?) but I'm off doing my thing looking content as can be. It seems the more I ignore deltas the harder they try to provoke me, nothing happens, then at some point I get assertive with them, call them out, tell them I know what they are trying to do, and then they flare up like "how dare you!!!" and then I feel great afterwards and their resentment builds.

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Example of Fi flare-up? What do they say that counts as that for you and that doesn't compute for you? Do they even say anything, this wasn't entirely clear to me. And yeah sx-first IEEs seem very interesting to me at least initially (Ne subtype more I think). If we don't get too close then I think I can get along with them while with EII I don't hold the Ti back that much probably because they have less Fe - the end result is a lot of conflict with quite some EIIs, mainly with the Ne subtype. With IEEs it does get into a worse conflict though if they said some really shit stupid stuff that I absolutely cannot NOT correct. EIIs can at least kinda accept some Ti while the IEEs absolutely won't when I correct them like that (don't get me wrong, I don't do personal attacks, I don't even call them stupid, I just simply correct what they said but they often still don't like it).


To OP: I have an issue with it if someone devalues long term orientation/goals, this is an issue with the Irrational Deltas the most. Rational Deltas aren't so bad there so I guess Rationality/Irrationality conflict also plays a part in it, not just Ni devaluing.

I also have an issue with people being nonresponsive to my little (very short lived) "pokes" of trying to get a good atmosphere going*, Fe devaluing essentially, this applies both for Gamma and Delta though EIIs aren't always unresponsive like other types are, I guess because they do try to be nice a lot. They can still be unresponsive tho'. Also Fe devaluing with these people forgetting to pay attention in general.

Finally, it easily becomes an issue with the Ti devaluing of SLIs if I want to go deeper in discussing stuff with them, they do not see the point of more analyzing, and their Si meanderings at the same time can annoy me along with too much softness in their approach of thinking about and dealing with things (Si>Se, no I don't mean Ethics stuff here). The latter is only little and fleeting annoyance though, it isn't a real problem if it doesn't get in the way.

*: To be more precise, I don't get it going per se, I just "poke" half consciously so I can receive something.

Alpha: Sometimes they can get on my nerves but are ok for the most part. I only run into problems with the more rigid subtypes or the overly talkative ones.

Beta: IEIs seem alright but I find Beta to be the most off-putting quadra as a whole. I can't stand people who get their kicks by making others feel weaker and inferior to them.


Gamma: Neutral for the most part. The Se/Ni makes them a bit edgier then alpha which puts me off a little, but on the other hand I like how they always seem sensible, unlike alpha.


Delta: My only beef with delta are when they moralize. I also dislike the subtypes that are overly squeamish and worry all the time.

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Originally Posted by Admiral Allahu Ackbar

Beta: IEIs seem alright but I find Beta to be the most off-putting quadra as a whole. I can't stand people who get their kicks by making others feel weaker and inferior to them.

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Like intentionally as a game? Nah I don't do that.

And a lot of other Betas also don't.

Alpha: I'd like to be in constant alpha state. Being a goofball is cool.
Beta: They express something in quite tangible ways. I don't really get the need for it.
Gamma: Have an enjoyable life, dammit.
Delta: Ok guys, tranguilizers are good when you need them.

Alpha: They talk too much and their obsession with Si comfort can be frustrating.

Beta: They're overly competitive over the most mundane things.

Gamma: My opposing quadra, so I don't think there is much point in listing all the things I am critical of.

Delta: Their moral self righteousness. The NFs give me this judgemental Fi stare that really annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Myst

With what sort of things do they try to "keep you in line for your own good"?




Example of Fi flare-up? What do they say that counts as that for you and that doesn't compute for you? Do they even say anything, this wasn't entirely clear to me. And yeah sx-first IEEs seem very interesting to me at least initially (Ne subtype more I think). If we don't get too close then I think I can get along with them while with EII I don't hold the Ti back that much probably because they have less Fe - the end result is a lot of conflict with quite some EIIs, mainly with the Ne subtype. With IEEs it does get into a worse conflict though if they said some really shit stupid stuff that I absolutely cannot NOT correct. EIIs can at least kinda accept some Ti while the IEEs absolutely won't when I correct them like that (don't get me wrong, I don't do personal attacks, I don't even call them stupid, I just simply correct what they said but they often still don't like it).


To OP: I have an issue with it if someone devalues long term orientation/goals, this is an issue with the Irrational Deltas the most. Rational Deltas aren't so bad there so I guess Rationality/Irrationality conflict also plays a part in it, not just Ni devaluing.

I also have an issue with people being nonresponsive to my little (very short lived) "pokes" of trying to get a good atmosphere going*, Fe devaluing essentially, this applies both for Gamma and Delta though EIIs aren't always unresponsive like other types are, I guess because they do try to be nice a lot. They can still be unresponsive tho'. Also Fe devaluing with these people forgetting to pay attention in general.

Finally, it easily becomes an issue with the Ti devaluing of SLIs if I want to go deeper in discussing stuff with them, they do not see the point of more analyzing, and their Si meanderings at the same time can annoy me along with too much softness in their approach of thinking about and dealing with things (Si>Se, no I don't mean Ethics stuff here). The latter is only little and fleeting annoyance though, it isn't a real problem if it doesn't get in the way.

*: To be more precise, I don't get it going per se, I just "poke" half consciously so I can receive something.

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I feel like my Ti took a crap. I'm not sure where I went wrong, because you're quoting a comment where I just tried to give someone else a more elaborate explanation. Fi-flare, you've never seen it? It's like a flash in the eyes combined with erratic speech and indignation, aka, TRIGGERED. I don't mean to be a trol by using that word, but when I think of TRIGGERED memes I think of people trolling Fi just to provoke a reaction. How do they keep me in line? By talking down to me like I'm a child, trying to guide me, "take me under their wing" when really I sense they need control. There are 2 ladies I know (they don't know each other) and they are identical in every way. They both talk to me like stern, bitchy school teachers and they are the most anal retentive, condescending, nit-picky people I've met in awhile. We clash, you should have seen the look on the one ladies face when I simply ignored her being bossy, hilarious and all I did was nothing.

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

I feel like my Ti took a crap. I'm not sure where I went wrong, because you're quoting a comment where I just tried to give someone else a more elaborate explanation. Fi-flare, you've never seen it? It's like a flash in the eyes combined with erratic speech and indignation, aka, TRIGGERED. I don't mean to be a trol by using that word, but when I think of TRIGGERED memes I think of people trolling Fi just to provoke a reaction. How do they keep me in line? By talking down to me like I'm a child, trying to guide me, "take me under their wing" when really I sense they need control. There are 2 ladies I know (they don't know each other) and they are identical in every way. They both talk to me like stern, bitchy school teachers and they are the most anal retentive, condescending, nit-picky people I've met in awhile. We clash, you should have seen the look on the one ladies face when I simply ignored her being bossy, hilarious and all I did was nothing.

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Lol sorry, I was asking about the parts where you used socionics terms "Fi" instead of everyday words. Mainly this: "they disagree with me, usually on a moral issue or lifestyle issue their Fi kicks in and whatever is happening in their heads I could not tell you. I can not turn their Fi into my Ti, it will never compute, ever". But I think I understand it now, if you mean they don't even talk about it.

Anyway, I dunno what kind of flash in the eyes you mean, when I see that as Fi specific it's when someone gives an explicit reproachful look (ESI's version of it is harsher than EII's), like I can see how you need to actually feel it deeply personally and strongly to be able to produce that look.

The control freak thing... you say they are deltas, are they LSEs?

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Originally Posted by Myst

Lol sorry, I was asking about the parts where you used socionics terms "Fi" instead of everyday words. Mainly this: "they disagree with me, usually on a moral issue or lifestyle issue their Fi kicks in and whatever is happening in their heads I could not tell you. I can not turn their Fi into my Ti, it will never compute, ever". But I think I understand it now, if you mean they don't even talk about it.

Anyway, I dunno what kind of flash in the eyes you mean, when I see that as Fi specific it's when someone gives an explicit reproachful look (ESI's version of it is harsher than EII's), like I can see how you need to actually feel it deeply personally and strongly to be able to produce that look.

The control freak thing... you say they are deltas, are they LSEs?

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Yeah, I would say they are LSEs, and I forgot to mention that when they are trying not to explode in anger one of their eye lids will literally twitch, to me I'm thinking "that must be Fi because it's so internal".

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

Yeah, I would say they are LSEs, and I forgot to mention that when they are trying not to explode in anger one of their eye lids will literally twitch, to me I'm thinking "that must be Fi because it's so internal".

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Lol that sounds funny, sorry, I know it's not funny in real life. I dunno if I'd ascribe the eyelid twitch to Fi.

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Originally Posted by Myst

Lol that sounds funny, sorry, I know it's not funny in real life. I dunno if I'd ascribe the eyelid twitch to Fi.

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I'm not sure but isn't Fe more willing to express what they are feeling, instead of holding it back to the point of twitchy nerves?

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Originally Posted by Pole Ninja

I'm not sure but isn't Fe more willing to express what they are feeling, instead of holding it back to the point of twitchy nerves?

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Yes Fe is more willing - the mechanism of holding it back so completely though sounds like enneagram. You said they are 1s, yeah?

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Originally Posted by Myst

Yes Fe is more willing - the mechanism of holding it back so completely though sounds like enneagram. You said they are 1s, yeah?

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Yes, type 1 is my first guess.

So far the GAMMAS I have met, esp ppl who type themselves LIE were .. repulsive individualists & in terms of outlook on life I found it very hard to agree with things they had to say. I tend to like ESIs tho.. :red: uless theya re sucking up to a LIE.. thats just pathetic, plz don't.

BETAS are cool imo. The NFs are a bit degenerate, but that is to be expected.
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/36/63/07/3...b2b7ba643d.jpg

ALPHAS are fun and interesting imo. LIIs have some things I relate to a lot. Leave them to do their thing imo = beneficial relationship.

DELTAs .. ambivalence I guess or neutral thoughts and feelz. I have no idea. A lot of them seem really religious, it find that weird.

Well I think objectively how it's "supposed" to work in the system is that Beta corrects Alpha values, Gamma corrects Beta, Delta corrects Gamma, & Alpha corrects Delta.

Alpha: Innocent (young alpha babies)
Beta: Evil (Rebellious edgy teenagers)
Gamma: Good & Evil (overly worldly adult Gammas)
Delta: Good (Wise elderly people, ready to be judged for Heaven)

Innocent trumps Good, Good trumps Good/Evil & Good/Evil trumps Evil & Evil trumps Innocent.

However, I still like Betas the most even tho we're the most evil because even evil things are still deserving of love. In a world where nobody wants to be the bad guy, may the bad guy be me. Most of the time "evil" people actually showed me the most compassion and love anyway and those who thought they were the most "good" did the most sadistic, hateful shit 2 me so fuck your morality. /shrug. :lol:

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Originally Posted by BandD

However, I still like Betas the most even tho we're the most evil because even evil things are still deserving of love. In a world where nobody wants to be the bad guy, may the bad guy be me. Most of the time "evil" people actually showed me the most compassion and love anyway and those who thought they were the most "good" did the most sadistic, hateful shit 2 me so fuck your morality. /shrug. :lol:

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Damn, that is cool. Wish I knew more of the story.

Crazy Alphas: They're silly and often clever. Fun to be with from time to time, but interactions are usually shallow. And sometimes they have weird expectations regarding behavior.

Evil Betas: Best to be avoided except in matters of information transfer. We don't have much in common and will disagree on how things should be done.

Greedy Gammas: I'm a bit wary of them, but some gamma time can be a refreshing break from alpha ungroundedness. Gammas have a sarcastic sense of humor rather than a silly one, and are rough around the edges.

Boring Deltas: Capable of both silly and serious, the deltas give a homey feel.

I hate everyone, I think i'm better than everyone from every quadra i've met. That's my cup of tea as a Delta NF IEE.

Anyway. It mostly just depends on the individual. Alpha's are ok as long as they're not retarded with their anti-Te bullshit of just chilling doing nothing forever and being crippled from any kind of ambition, I often deem most Alphas as useless, with the exception of my SEI best friend. Though ESE's can get on my nerves, so I constantly want to hurt them for some reason, by any way I can.

Deltas, I dislike most other Deltas unless they're IEE 7's like me, they're often cool. EII's Fi annoys me a bit when they just want to scold me for shit. SLI's are hot, both genders, unless they have this "i'm superior" attitude, it really makes me want to punch them in the teeth and constantly step over their skulls with my boots. LSE's are cool, unless they're in that super bossy-mode, I hate being told what to do or how to do it, i'll manage on my own because i'm a big boy, thanks.

Betas, they should just kill themselves.

Gammas are okay as long as they don't want to push that Se retardation down my throat, and their lack of creativity really makes me deem them as orcs.

Alpha: I don't particularly care about being logically consistent; and pleasant food and drink isn't a big priority of mine, nor something I like to discuss.
Beta: I often enjoy relating personal information in a subdued tone.
Gamma: I don't like the whole "hardline approach" to matters of ethics thing.
Delta: I enjoy a certain amount of drama and poetic expression.

None of the Quadra descriptions are that great or that bad at describing what I value in in my interactions.

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Originally Posted by Nunki

Beta: I often enjoy relating personal information in a subdued tone.
Delta: I enjoy a certain amount of drama and poetic expression.

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Think you've got these two mixed up

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Originally Posted by oath of solitude

Think you've got these two mixed up

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I was listing points of difference between me and the various Quadras. The fact that I enjoy relating personal information, etc. differentiates me from Beta; the fact that I enjoy a certain amount of drama, etc. differentiates me from Delta.

:thinking: imo Betas don't seem to care about social etiquette.. and LxIs are some kind of weird Ti based ethical idealists.. I certainly seem to have this need for a Ti based ethical system, because Fi seems unreliable & inconsistent? *accidentally drops his Fi and walks on.. forgetting it even exists*

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Originally Posted by BandD

However, I still like Betas the most even tho we're the most evil because even evil things are still deserving of love. In a world where nobody wants to be the bad guy, may the bad guy be me. Most of the time "evil" people actually showed me the most compassion and love anyway and those who thought they were the most "good" did the most sadistic, hateful shit 2 me so fuck your morality. /shrug. :lol:

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:"> stfu, Betas are kawaii af.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/1a...bdf0400424.jpg

<_< y is my dual annoying me in the pic tho <3? Why does SLE get a <3 ? Jelly..

the quadra with ESE, LSE, EII, and LII.

The irrationals get a pass. I'm inventing my own most hated quadra for this.

Sorry LIIs in advance, but you're there because you have to be.

The best thing I can say to describe this quadra of Judicious Rationals is that they are anal and anxious about the most pointless things, which, in my head, halts progress and movement towards better ideas.

And going by this quadra, the best quadra would therefore have to be one with IEI, ILI, SEE, and SLE. It would be quite a fuck fest and I'm not even sure it's going to be that much more fruitful than the other quadra but we will get things done!