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Tell me your experiences or observations.
There is the popular ESI gaze and I wonder if they do that to everyone or just the people they're interested in/attracted to.
Edit: The ESI gaze I'm talking about looks like this:
Attachment 8354
Attachment 8355
Interesting observations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kye
I'll add something later, when I have more time.
P.S. ^ I've seen that face before. First one is probably Se, second is Fi.
My mom is ESI so obviously she showers me with her motherly, Fi-based love lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kye
-She likes to send me texts throughout the week, especially when she knows I've been down in the dumps (basically she's very sensitive to my emotions and takes action)
-When I visit she makes me nice hearty meals and lectures me lol (on morals, being responsible, etc)
-She reminds me to keep in touch with my brother and to stay in constant communication with him. She likes to tell me specifics in how I should engage my brother "ask him about his job, ask him what he's up to" etc.
tl;dr- "For ESIs, connections with others mark a predominant and over-arching life focus. Though close contacts for ESIs often tend to be sparse, when ESIs find a degree of mutual respect towards others, they can be deeply empathetic, compassionate, and loyal. They may emphasize close connections and mutual understanding with others above all other things."
--
As for your specific case, I dunno man. I think you're overthinking it. Just ask her out lol
I think using socionics to tell whether someone likes you will just drive you crazy/in your head.
My own experience: They buy you clothes and things, they cook meals for you. Very attentive to your physical needs. They appear to lack emotional boundaries though, can easily get affected by your moods. Hard to stay mad at them. It's kind of like they merge with the emotional state of who ever is nearby.
Hmm sounds very ESI, the physical care. I don't know about not having emotional boundaries though. What I guess is that they can't keep that psychological distance they always have for too long with the LIE. The LIE just tries to push and push those boundaries. but I do agree that they are strongly affected by the moods of the person they're with and can very quickly understand what mood you're in. They're all about moods!Quote:
Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly
Fassbender - INFJ
> ESI as a sensory type is the one who initiates romantic/sexual interest
initiate relations is more about exrtaverts
I have a tiny circle so even as much as opening up to you and going out of my way to maintain regular contact means a lot from me. I'll think about you at random times and text and let you know maybe something reminded me of you, etc. I offer help when it looks like you could use it. I show an interest in details of your life maybe to the point of nosiness and be fascinated and accepting to a degree I'm not with others.
Meals, maybe..I cook for my boyfriend but not for other adults usually. Lacking emotional boundaries? If somebody is upset sometimes I get tense from the radiating energy and wanting to help if that's what cb meant.
I think that esi gaze is just esi gaze lol. When I communicate love with my eyes it's softer and more straight on, more obviously catching eye contact.
I initiate but people here say that's atypical for esis. I've usually said the L word first.
i feel like fassbender might be :Te: ego but i really am not sure
he looks lse in that pic
He could be SLI.Quote:
Originally Posted by inumbra
Fassbender is one of my favorite gingers.
As for ESIs, in my experience they can be really great listeners and staunch supporters. Like they'll be very firm with their support to the point where they'll try to move me forward even if I'm not sure I want to. They also can be very good at saying what they really think but in a "I care about you" way. That might not work for everybody, but I personally appreciate it.
But if he is looking for a feisty woman (http://www.independent.ie/style/sex-...-30265735.html), then he is probably not LSE. LSE like their women "not feisty". :content:Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinoche
From Google images of him, maybe ILI or ESI, slight possibility LIE (I used to have a coat like that), less likely SLI or LSI. I'd have to see him acting to form a better opinion.
if LSEs did not like feisty women they would not have SEEs as their benefactors
My point is the look on his face in that photo only, not his type in the film nor in his lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by kalinoche
Did you just use the type of coat you both wear to type him?! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
This thread is going irrelevant places people! Please focus on my question. We can start a thread about Fassbender's type later. Respectfully.
Through actions
actions are my preferred love language when i can find opportunities that are appropriate (i hate meddlers and meddling). i'm not great with verbal affirmations even though i'm sentimental. i'll send you a love poem i find that reminds me of you but i'll probably have an easier time setting myself on fire than pushing the same stuff that's in the poem out of my mouth.
I noticed that too, ESI will get active sfor the person they love. Very service-oriented. The NFs are into verbal affirmations because of their idealism, SFs are more pragmatic. Confessing? Only through indirect means ("I did it for you"). SEE is much more into declarations, while ESI will subtly show their level of affection by adjusting their routine, going out of their way of doing something, etc. Because they are cutely stubborn, they are prone to verbal denial but their lack of coherence gives everything away :love:
I wouldn't know from any experience. I can only say what sounds good theoretically from descriptions (a clear headed approach to problems, being able to calculate risk)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kye
So you have never met a LIE?Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs
Other than people in passing I've thought might be LIE, nope. I have a co-worker I think might be LIE that I never talk to, and an old college friend who might have been LIE or LSE. But not enough data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kye
How about LIEs you meet online? You can gather data from them!!Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs
Then the prognosis isn't great lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kye
I'm pretty sure the woman who sometimes cuts my grass is ESI. (She is slightly over 30, which is outside my eight-year-range limit for romantic interests.) About a year ago, I asked her to go to a park on a Saturday for a walk and some conversation (for me to try to get to know ESI's better, and in return, she could also get to know LIE's better, - purely platonic, and I explained this to her) and she laughed at me and said, "That's not happening."
I said, "Why not? It's just a walk in the park. There are hundreds of people there, and after all, you know where I live."
She said, "I'd have to introduce you to my father, and that is not going to happen."
So, add to the difficulties of getting to know an ESI: strong family orientation, extreme caution around strangers, initial response to anything is "No".
On the other hand, I have worked with a gay male ESI-Fi for five years, and we get along pretty well. Great, actually. He is smart, competent, firm in his resolve, reliable, quick to point out when I'm either being stupid or am correct, and I overheard him defending me to some guys once. So, loyal. I guess those are some good points.
I'm not sure what you mean by how ESIs get active for the person they love, or how their lack of coherence gives them away?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
But that is absolutely true. Service-oriented and stubbornness :D
What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kye
The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.
Thanks for your reply. That is very true, I have observed traits like that also. It would be nice if they just made it obvious what they hide and not annoy themselves, not fall apart from the inside though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
This is very interesting. As predicted, I worked with this ESI-Fi for four years before I "noticed" him, or figured out that he is ESI-Fi. He seemed like nothing at all. I did notice that we never disagreed, exactly, and that he seemed to like talking with me (we both often work late), but it was no big deal, really. Just another guy, except I get along with him slightly better than I do with most people. Then one day a bunch of guys are 'way down the corridor, and I can hear them discussing pay, and that they thought I make too much money. (I don't. I'm probably below market rate.) The ESI-Fi was there, too, and he just lit into those guys, saying Who else could do that job? but in a tone of voice that was like hitting them with an ax handle. I thought to myself, Whoa, I'm glad I'm not on the wrong end of that. I was also surprised at the force with which he said it, because he never expressed any special liking for me, before that or after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
So my other job is Parking Lot Attendant, where I park cars on my lawn during football games. I called the ESI-Se woman who cuts my lawn and asked if she was available to cut it, and she said Sure, I'm fully booked today, but how about Monday?, but then she realized that I wanted the grass cut for parking, and she said she'd find time to do it that same day. And she did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
(This is the woman I had asked to the park a year ago, and she said No.)
So the next day, I'm out there on the street, trying to get cars to park in my "lot" when she drives up and I say to her Hi! Thanks for cutting the grass It looks great, and she says I had to do that after dark, you know. And I said, so how much do I owe you? and she said $50 and I gave her $80 and she said You paid me too much and I said You did too good a job and she smiled a really beautiful smile. She has beautiful eyes. And I noticed that she has a bruise under one eye and I said Did your boyfriend beat you up? and she nodded at the Pitbull in the back seat and said "I was just playing with Outlaw" and I thought it was funny that she named her dog "outlaw" because that is how most people think of LIE's. And all this time we're joking around she's smiling and I'm thinking she's really attractive and I'd be an idiot to carry that thought any further, and another car pulls up and wants a parking spot and she breaks eye contact as she puts her car into gear and her face momentarily falls apart into introspection and anxiety and then she's off and I'm standing there and the scalpers across the street are all looking at me instead of hawking their tickets.
No problem. :content: And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kye
Yes, I do that subconsciously actually. Good reminderQuote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
She's not married, you moron. She doesn't have a BF, either. Plus, ESI's can handle themselves perfectly well.Quote:
Originally Posted by zloty
I don't know if your concern is that the woman may be attacked, but apart from that in my cultural background (western Europe, more north than south) taking a walk with someone is a neutral thing to do. Does it have specifically romantic connotations for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by zloty
Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on :Ne: (having potential) and :Fe: (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within :Ni:/:Fi: territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt :Fi: more than :Fe: because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone
I don't fully agree, what do you do with Fi PoLR persons? And still they are Fe valuers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Quote:
Originally Posted by zloty
If you have troubles imagining, let's switch bodies for a day ;) Very well. When the primary issue is breaking of trust, recovery primarily depends on that. And Ni is not about how things improve, that's Te /plus/ Ni. Ni itself is just a time function: "A leads to B; if _____, then _____." And Ne: it sees all sorts of consequences (the difference is quantity) and acts according to Ti or Fi. Ni is always blocked with Te or Fe so it's either a practical or emotional forecast, but always a one way street unless the lower functions interfere. You don't have to debate trust as a basic team work principle, we are talking about it within romantic ESI boundaries here.
Do what exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone
This is absolutely true. Trust, and knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest, is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
My first GF, an LSI, and I were having relationship problems. Perhaps she was trying to apply some pressure. She decided to get really drunk with some friends at her place and one of the guys spent the night there. She told me the next day that nothing had happened, that she hadn't cheated, but as soon as I heard that, we were all done. Trust was gone. (It turned out for the best. She's now married to an ethical guy, possibly an EIE.)
One very strong factor in deciding to marry my SLI ex-wife was the sense I got that she was rock-solid faithful, and would always be on my side. (That, plus the fact that I could tell she would be a good mother and had good taste in clothes and furnishings - I can see now that I was subconsciously looking for ESI traits.) And she has been. Even though we are divorced, she still stops by briefly every couple of weeks to say hi, and to ask how I'm doing. We're not getting back together (Adam shudders - the last couple years were not great), but she does still show loyalty and support. It helps that we actually like each other and are friends. Too bad she can't stand living with me. Or maybe it's not too bad, since we both now have a chance to find better partners. She replaced me with a cat, I'm still looking.
Let's agree to disagree ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by zloty
It is obvious to me that Chae has more knowledge of Socionics than I do, so I can only say what I think she meant. Zloty, I get the impression that you are Delta, possibly ESTJ or INFP, and from my experience, I agree that Deltas do value trust. But I think Chae is saying that for Gamma's, trust is everything. For both Delta's and Gamma's, trust is important, but if trust is violated, Gamma's Ni (single possiblity) will cause them to walk away, while Delta's Ne (many possibilities) might cause them to try to perfect or improve things. But that is just a guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by zloty
Incidentally, I don't mind if girls I am dating also date other guys. When there is no commitment, that's not a problem. But once a commitment is made, breaking that trust is a really bad thing. Not recoverable.
That does clarify your thought process, thanks. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by zloty
Their emotions of attachment come out when someone they care about and have established an emotional connection tries to break from them
It's weird you don't get what I meant but maybe I wasn't very explicit within my explanations. I was trying to say that trust issues are not exclusively related to Fi valuers only. Fi PoLR people are more than concerned with trust and still they are Fe valuers. I hope it was clearer now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
I use words.
& I become a goof.
Does words ever object to being used?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
*Do wordsQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
& also: your question does not bear answering because it asks nothing and thus means nothing. :indifferent:
This whole "ESI gaze" thing is...just what? If there is such a thing, it's not the look in the OP.
This is something that is strongly affected by gender roles. Female ESIs are more likely to express their feelings directly, saying "I love you" and things like that. ESI guys often adopt a tough-guy persona because Se is a lot more masculine than Fi. But they are secretly softies on the inside. I would describe the way they show love as being there for you. It doesn't mean necessarily showing emotion externally (which is more Fe) but being someone you can rely on and talk to about your innermost feelings, and who will sympathize with your struggles while also pushing you / challenging you when you need it.
This is definitely one way that an ESI shows her care for those whom she loves: she performs the tasks and the chores that others would find too boring, tedious, and burdensome, and does it with much devotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barubary
When my family moved to a new place we were invited by another family over for dinner. Their hostess turned out to be an ESI woman in her late 30s. This ESI barely sat down the whole evening. She served us with so many dishes: it was the first course, the second, then the third one, and when everyone was full she mixed the drinks for us (she was an excellent bartender and knew her way around cocktails). After the dinner was over, ;lke the type descriptions say, she couldn't go rest until she cleaned the kitchen and the table and put away the dishes and utensils. I think an LIE with their inert sensing and vulnerable Si function, which wouldn't want to touch a pile of dirty dishes with leftover scraps, would appreciate having a person like this around. One of the other guests could have been LIE, because he praised this ESI woman for her tireless hosing and hard work.
I agree with the idea that ESI's are very hard workers. The few whom I have known focus on the tasks in front of them and get them done. I visited a small restaurant where an ESI worked, with half my purpose to get lunch and the other half to talk to her, and even though she enjoyed talking to me, she always finished every bit of her work and waited until there were no other customers before she would sit down and have lunch herself. This was fairly frustrating to me, but it is what she wanted to do, and I wasn't going to try to change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milo
On the other hand, Milo, I am LIE, and I have no problem cleaning a pile of dirty dishes with leftover scraps. I clear and clean everything immediately after every meal. (My father always did this when I was growing up, so I always assumed that this is what men do. Kids learn what it means to be an adult by example.)
The rest of my house, though, is presently in disarray.... When I was married to an Si-dom SLI and we both worked, she insisted that we have a maid service come in and clean the house, and that worked well. Now, however, the place is torn up for remodeling. Once the remodeling is done, I plan to combat my inert sensing and vulnerable Si function by simply having very little stuff to get out of place.
Fearful daisies whose best quality is keeping their duals house clean. The present manifestation of esi stereotypes makes me want to die.
Here is an expansion on the theme.Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs
This link might be useful, if you haven't already seen it: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...read.php/42518
Particularly good advice is the first sentence of the Preface.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
lmao I know, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs
lmao whatQuote:
Originally Posted by Milo
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cheap+maids+in+my+areaQuote:
When my family moved to a new place we were invited by another family over for dinner. Their hostess turned out to be an ESI woman in her late 30s. This ESI barely sat down the whole evening. She served us with so many dishes: it was the first course, the second, then the third one, and when everyone was full she mixed the drinks for us (she was an excellent bartender and knew her way around cocktails). After the dinner was over, ;lke the type descriptions say, she couldn't go rest until she cleaned the kitchen and the table and put away the dishes and utensils. I think an LIE with their inert sensing and vulnerable Si function, which wouldn't want to touch a pile of dirty dishes with leftover scraps, would appreciate having a person like this around. One of the other guests could have been LIE, because he praised this ESI woman for her tireless hosing and hard work.
or
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cheap+slaves+in+my+area
take your pick!
I see she upgraded!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I won't even clean my own bedroom, so what on earth makes these 18th century fools think I'll clean their whole goddamn house?
anyway. I show my love through saying cute and romantic things, occasionally I'll shoot a few lovey-dovey texts their way. I wrote my last ex a love letter. I have a knack for making people laugh when they're upset, and I giggle a helluva lot, even when I'm not in a relationship, but it multiplies tenfold once you put in a room with my current squeeze. my last ex told me I have a penchant for making really bad jokes, fake-laughing at myself, then laughing at myself for real. I'm big on expressing affection via touch, and I actually scored really high on "acts of service" on the 5 love languages test, which means that it's most likely going to be you who cleans my house, not the other way around. smh.
It seems like ESIs are completely either hot or cold with me. If they are feeling good or feeling affectionate or like they want to get closer to me (it seems), they will give me stuff, or try to do stuff for me and care for my physical wellbeing. I don't like being babied, so my reaction to this is usually to try to make them stop or go away even if I otherwise like them, and this seems to frustrate them. I spent most of my younger life outside of school being raised by my ESI grandma, and this babying behaviour was more ok at that time I guess. I appreciated her emotional stability, and she's always been the best cook in the family. It seemed like she'd also always been wise in a sense and that had nothing to do with her age. She added a grounding sensibility that offset my LIE grandpa well.
I think this thread is about how ESIs show love and I think they (actually like all ISxx types) seem to do a lot of acts of service. How they handle their professional life or hobbies is another matter. They may be ski world champions but they may still cook dinner for their husband? (I have a real example in mind, a woman who lives near to my parents)Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs
I know another one who is a famous engineer but still spends many sundays taking care of his garden all by himself...
If I may add, I admire these people because they show how you can be successful in your endeavors while keeping true to yourself, your real personality (with its weaknesses) and interests.
I do acts of service! Though if I give gifts I give them because I want to, not with the expectation it will be returned. I know a lot of people are weary about giving gifts because then they feel like they need to give back. I will also find information and stuff if I know someone is interested in certain things. I will listen to people if they randomly start venting to me but I will not involve myself in others problems. If someone comes to me and says look I need to talk that's cool I will listen, but I don't go around asking people if they are okay excessively. I really do my best to just mind my own business and keep engaged with things that are meaningful to me :D
Well Fi is love :pQuote:
Originally Posted by lungs
With ESIs, love felt very sudden. Initially, the relationships felt formal; then out of the blue, they seem to come to a snap decision and get physically close - almost as if they were trying to fuse; it was always unexpected. When they fell out of love, I became aware of the cold-front simply by touching them. For me, ESI cues and clues weren't verbal........
a.k.a. I/O
I think there is some truth in this. Let me expand upon it. As an ESI, I wait for others to show interest and then I maintain that interest by initiating contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol
Really? I thought they were thought of as nerds or business tycoons. How do people consider LIEs to be outlaws?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange