Courting an ISFj-ESI?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye

---

Wow! You sound like you even care about her. One does not over react over things one does not care about ;) .

Crazy look...but was it sexy in its way?

Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Narc

Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.

---

Indeed. Which one would be "the passionate couple"? Two extroverts, but which?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nondescript

Indeed. Which one would be "the passionate couple"? Two extroverts, but which?

---

Maybe the two Alpha extraverts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Narc

Maybe the two Alpha extraverts.

---

That was exactly what I was guessing. But you do have to agree that Beta extroverts would be fiery as all hell as well. If I had to put it:

Alpha extroverts = Titanic romance(diabetes, please kill me NOW!)
Beta extroverts = Therese Raquin romance(really fiery, wild and all consuming)

I thought of them second, but nah'd that. Guess it'd depend on enneagram and subtype, but SLEs seem more reigned in than ILEs on average.

[QUOTE]Wow! You sound like you even care about her. One does not over react over things one does not care about ;) [QUOTE]Of course I like her, but she doesn't communicate at all.

Quote:

---

Crazy look...but was it sexy in its way?

---

Yeah it was............kinda 'look what you're missing" She's way more physical than she is verbal, Stares a lot, says nothing. I am going to leave her alone, I am shifting focus to people who want to spend time with me.

Quote:

---

Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.

---

"He covets..............Clarice how does one covet?" "We covet what we see everyday" Hannibal. Silence of the Lambs.
I usually smell the skunk quicker than this. How does someone ignore an ESI?:shifty:

To ignore someone, you simply ignore. NTR. If she becomes stalker-ish/confrontational as you are now worried she might, do as you would with anyone else (maybe) and tell her the above: that you realized she was immature and sucked at communicating. Be a grown up too :crispy:






Also- when you quote user's posts, if you want the user to know you have quoted him or her, click the "reply with quote." Easier to follow the conversation in threads when it's more obvious who you are quoting insteading of having to scroll up. (Also I'm super lazy).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye

---

fwiw, the ESI I know irl would not play these types of games. That is the reason I mentioned it before. They are way more direct, ime. :)

Quote:

---

The ESI sees reality primarily through static personal ethics and stable interpersonal bonds between individuals, including himself, where the status of such interpersonal bonds is determined by his personal ethics. The ESI is very confident in evaluating the ethical or moral qualities, and their consistency, of other people as well of himself. This makes ESIs seem "judgmental" or "self-righteous" to people less so inclined. If an ESI has difficulty in deciding the status of a personal relationship, he will take action to try to reach a conclusion, but if that continues to elude him, he will regard the relationship as not worth it. His own sense of constancy in personal ethics and in his relationships with others is a very strong factor in his sense of self-worth.

This is manifested as a very high regard for personal loyalty and integrity, both on the part of the ESI and of others towards each other and towards the ESI. The idea that he failed on that is extremely upsetting to an ESI, and such a suggestion, made by others, is seen as the ultimate insult if the ESI himself does not agree. The same goes for accusations of unethical or unprincipled behavior that the ESI regards as unjustified.

ESIs are very often more confident of the status of a personal relationship - and of what it should be in their view - than other persons; therefore ESIs often take it upon themselves to establish, maintain, preserve, or change the status of such relationships.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Narc

I thought of them second, but nah'd that. Guess it'd depend on enneagram and subtype, but SLEs seem more reigned in than ILEs on average.

---

Reigned in how?

[QUOTE=hatesyardwork;1102814][QUOTE]Wow! You sound like you even care about her. One does not over react over things one does not care about ;)

Quote:

---

Of course I like her, but she doesn't communicate at all.

Yeah it was............kinda 'look what you're missing" She's way more physical than she is verbal, Stares a lot, says nothing. I am going to leave her alone, I am shifting focus to people who want to spend time with me.

---

Yeah, forgot to add, I wouldn't act spoiled as her either. The "dance of an ESI"(true thing that!) is one thing, but she acts spoiled imo.

At this point you'll need to confront her because she'll try to force confrontation. Just don't let it get hostile and go in peace(live and let and live, eh?).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

Thanks for the insight. I have seen all this behavior from her. I haven't interacted with her for about 2 weeks, because point 4 (escape) is her typical behavior. Today she handed out invitations for one of her kids birthday BQ to everyone but me. Loudly giving the invitations to everyone and then staring at me each time she handed them out. She wasn't even looking at the them while she was passing out the invites , just staring me down.......with a why haven't you chatted me up lately look. I'm officially as of this post, bored with her, I'm done.........she just wants attention.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Narc

Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.

---

Yes, you like her, otherwise you wouldn't still be thinking about this. And she probably sees something in you that she likes, too. With respect to how you interpret her behavior, it is of course possible that she might be immature, but that could be true of anyone. Or she might just be shy and doubt herself. All of these are possibilities. But actually, I think you are running into something similar to what I ran into when I was seeing an IEI. I really, really liked her (even to the point where I was starting to think about what being married to her might be like, altho LIE's naturally spend a lot of their time considering possible future outcomes), and she really liked me, but she was expecting SLE behavior from me, and I was expecting ESI behavior from her, and when we didn't get the response we were expecting on a minute-by-minute basis, we each became offended and assumed that the other was fucking with us for some crazy reason. Behavior that one type sees as an invitation to the dance can be seen by another type as a slap in the face.

Here is an example of how I might have responded to the above. She's passing out invitations to her kid's party. I like the girl a lot, she's really OK but shy, I can see she's not really crazy, there might be something there, and maybe she needs a demonstrable sign that says you're interested in her, or at least interested in doing something with her. I say, "So, you're having a party?......."
Wait two seconds, "But you're not inviting me?" Let her think about this for a second, then smile and
"Because you're afraid that if your kid sees my face, he'll be scarred for life?" and let her respond. She can then invite you, or not, but she will at least know that you want to go to her kid's party, and that you can joke around about it.

The above response is only going to be appropriate if all the conditions above are met, and if you really do want to go to the party. On the other hand, she may be nuts, and stepping away from the car at this point may be the best thing you can do. You know her, you've watched her face, I haven't.
I wouldn't be so quick to abandon a possible relationship with her, just because of an initial failure to start. It can take some time to get to a point in a relationship where each person trusts the other. From what you described, it has been many months of you two looking at each other from a distance, and just a day or two of misunderstanding. Personally, I would ask her if I offended her somehow, and if she then threatens you with a restraining order for talking to her, just move on. But otherwise, if you give it a chance (and if she's not nuts) by not writing her off, you might gain a real friend.

Quote:

---

fwiw, the ESI I know irl would not play these types of games. That is the reason I mentioned it before. They are way more direct, ime. :)

---

thanks for this although as far as consistent behavior from a type perspective, she's all over the place , I am guessing ESI from past behavior with others, since she has always been a silent statue around me. In an odd way I thought she was being very direct in what ever it was see was trying to communicate, just don't know what it was.

Quote:

---

Also- when you quote user's posts, if you want the user to know you have quoted him or her, click the "reply with quote." Easier to follow the conversation in threads when it's more obvious who you are quoting insteading of having to scroll up. (Also I'm super lazy).

---

LOL I am trying. Can't get this quote stuff down.

[QUOTE]To ignore someone, you simply ignore. NTR. If she becomes stalker-ish/confrontational as you are now worried she might, do as you would with anyone else (maybe) and tell her the above: that you realized she was immature and sucked at communicating. Be a grown up too.[QUOTE]I don't expect any trouble. She looked mortified the rest of the day, kinda dazed. One of the girls said "wow, she really likes you" and she overheard it. She watched me from the sidelines for months, I expect she'll go back to that and keep her head down.

Quote:

---

To ignore someone, you simply ignore. NTR. If she becomes stalker-ish/confrontational as you are now worried she might, do as you would with anyone else (maybe) and tell her the above: that you realized she was immature and sucked at communicating. Be a grown up too

---

I actually don't expect trouble from her, I think she shot her wad. Yeah.........just had an old ESI girlfriend who would burn down the earth to get what she wanted.....I know the look.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Yes, you like her, otherwise you wouldn't still be thinking about this. And she probably sees something in you that she likes, too. With respect to how you interpret her behavior, it is of course possible that she might be immature, but that could be true of anyone. Or she might just be shy and doubt herself. All of these are possibilities. But actually, I think you are running into something similar to what I ran into when I was seeing an IEI. I really, really liked her (even to the point where I was starting to think about what being married to her might be like, altho LIE's naturally spend a lot of their time considering possible future outcomes), and she really liked me, but she was expecting SLE behavior from me, and I was expecting ESI behavior from her, and when we didn't get the response we were expecting on a minute-by-minute basis, we each became offended and assumed that the other was fucking with us for some crazy reason. Behavior that one type sees as an invitation to the dance can be seen by another type as a slap in the face.

Here is an example of how I might have responded to the above. She's passing out invitations to her kid's party. I like the girl a lot, she's really OK but shy, I can see she's not really crazy, there might be something there, and maybe she needs a demonstrable sign that says you're interested in her, or at least interested in doing something with her. I say, "So, you're having a party?......."
Wait two seconds, "But you're not inviting me?" Let her think about this for a second, then smile and
"Because you're afraid that if your kid sees my face, he'll be scarred for life?" and let her respond. She can then invite you, or not, but she will at least know that you want to go to her kid's party, and that you can joke around about it.

The above response is only going to be appropriate if all the conditions above are met, and if you really do want to go to the party. On the other hand, she may be nuts, and stepping away from the car at this point may be the best thing you can do. You know her, you've watched her face, I haven't.
I wouldn't be so quick to abandon a possible relationship with her, just because of an initial failure to start. It can take some time to get to a point in a relationship where each person trusts the other. From what you described, it has been many months of you two looking at each other from a distance, and just a day or two of misunderstanding. Personally, I would ask her if I offended her somehow, and if she then threatens you with a restraining order for talking to her, just move on. But otherwise, if you give it a chance (and if she's not nuts) by not writing her off, you might gain a real friend.

---

Space is best, you are correct........don't burn bridges, you never know what the future will hold. I am going to stop trying though, moving on. I still don't know what happened. "OK she likes me, I like her, here I go........." ?? I actually was too stunned by her invite drama to act in the way you advised. I was too WTF is this? It was weird dude everyone else was a prop and she was doing this weird dance with me in front of everybody. I don't even want to understand anymore.

New update. We avoided each other for the week, I sensed she wanted to approach but was pensive, her faced seemed guilty, so I said hi to her yesterday to break the stalemate . She dropped her head and started to say "I'm sooo....I cut her off and said no apology necessary, I was fine with her and touched her hand. She blushed and went back to work. Stared at me hard all day. Worked late and saw she had moved her car next to me in parking lot, she was waiting for me. I called to her she popped her head out the window and I opened her door and started kissing her. She told me "about time".......which I thought was very funny. Slow savoring type kisses and eye contact....... restrained but sexy for about 10 minutes, because I had to leave. Very good kisser, ...... I can't stop smiling. She's blowing up my phone already. I totally fell into this one, not at all how I had planned it.

Called it.

is her behavior normal for ESIs? :shock:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glam

is her behavior normal for ESIs? :shock:

---

I sure hope not. The behavior described would set off my red flags for anyone.


When I like someone I ask them to hang out, talk, get to know them. If I still like them after spending time with them, I generally am like, "Hi, I kinda like you."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glam

is her behavior normal for ESIs? :shock:

---

Her behavior is probably normal for e6 ESI sx-first's, who have not had too many relationships. She wants (needs) a lock, and doesn't foresee what can go wrong with getting one quickly.

Personally, I'm jealous. Not too many sx-first ESI's out there, in my very limited experience.

I wish you luck, man. This could be good, but I predict you will have to do some work to adapt and to understand. The fact that you were ready to walk away indicates that there are some slight mis-matches in your mutual expectations. (I have never walked away from a relationship, even prospective ones, until I was sure I was done, and then I was done for good.) Still, the stars are aligned in your favor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Her behavior is probably normal for e6 ESI sx-first's, who have not had too many relationships. She wants (needs) a lock, and doesn't foresee what can go wrong with getting one quickly.

Personally, I'm jealous. Not too many sx-first ESI's out there, in my very limited experience.

I wish you luck, man. This could be good, but I predict you will have to do some work to adapt and to understand. The fact that you were ready to walk away indicates that there are some slight mis-matches in your mutual expectations. (I have never walked away from a relationship, even prospective ones, until I was sure I was done, and then I was done for good.) Still, the stars are aligned in your favor.

---

She told me she was obsessing thinking I didn't like her, didn't want to reveal her cards, and she couldn't read me. "You seemed really indifferent, I thought you would reject me" It's going OK, the doubts we both had and all that tension is gone. She is chatty and funny and relaxed finally. She is not shy anymore.......she won't shut up.
Having really thought on activity/dual, just being for now. I like her.Thanks for all your help. Those comic books came, haven't cracked them yet. Nice artwork

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacey

Called it.

---

You did? Missed it. We'd still be nowhere if she hadn't parked next to me. I saw her parked there and thought....."Yes she's an aggressor, fuckin A" :content:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

You did? Missed it. We'd still be nowhere if she hadn't parked next to me. I saw her parked there and thought....."Yes she's an aggressor, fuckin A" :content:

---

Hah! I had to chuckle, called it when I said "mauhahaha" a bit further back...

I guess it was more of a called it to myself. Haha, nice job, enjooooy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

She told me she was obsessing thinking I didn't like her, didn't want to reveal her cards, and she couldn't read me. "You seemed really indifferent, I thought you would reject me" It's going OK, the doubts we both had and all that tension is gone. She is chatty and funny and relaxed finally. She is not shy anymore.......she won't shut up.
Having really thought on activity/dual, just being for now. I like her.Thanks for all your help. Those comic books came, haven't cracked them yet. Nice artwork

---

Sounds excellent, I'm glad it turned out well. Best of luck to you both. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacey

Hah! I had to chuckle, called it when I said "mauhahaha" a bit further back...

I guess it was more of a called it to myself. Haha, nice job, enjooooy.

---

You are a PROPHET........thanks for the karma

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nondescript

That was exactly what I was guessing. But you do have to agree that Beta extroverts would be fiery as all hell as well. If I had to put it:

Alpha extroverts = Titanic romance(diabetes, please kill me NOW!)
Beta extroverts = Therese Raquin romance(really fiery, wild and all consuming)

---

yeah its so all consuming that they kill eachother

Caveman approach works for every type

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

So, from my very limited experience, I would say you should try to just be a friend first.

---

This is probably the best advice you're going to get here. Not because there's no good advice, but just because this advice is really good.
From reading about her behavior I'd suggest that maybe she doesn't have very good judgment. And maybe she's looking for something casual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

Caveman approach works for every type

---

Bullshit. Caveman approach get's nowhere with me. Actually if a guy had a chance before, not after this. :agent:bitch back up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carrina

Bullshit. Caveman approach get's nowhere with me. Actually if a guy had a chance before, not after this. :agent:bitch back up

---

Hahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylen

fwiw, the ESI I know irl would not play these types of games. That is the reason I mentioned it before. They are way more direct, ime. :)

---

HAhahaha Aylen. Yeah, with *you*
it cracks me up that you think that.
In your case, okay. probably true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

Hahaha

---

:P :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatesyardwork

Yeah no shit. As shy as she is, she often takes her coat off right in front of me with this whole "I want you to check me out, I know I look good." Just stands there letting me sink her in, slowly with her head in the air like a peacock.......wants me to look at her. It's very confident and provocative. It is usually after lunch and I can smell beer on her. Then she avoids me for 3 days.

---

What the fuck

Quote:

---

What the fuck

---

Yep........she would be provocative and then avoid me.