Member Questionnaire 1 (Lakester).
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Member Questionnaire 1 (Lakester).
The vibe I am getting right now is Delta quadra but I wouldn't swear to it. Welcome to the forum.
Found you and your thread cool and interesting.
Was ready and happy to give compliments and typing advice.
Started reading.
Was disappointed.
Encountered harmful and inappropriate sexist remarks disguised as light jokes.
Chuckled knowingly, knowing that you know it, too.
Now calls you out on it.
Encourages you to become less 1950 for your own and society's good.
Still offers to give compliments and advice upon elegant apologetic request, then struts away leaving a rainbow trail and flying hearts :love2: Chuuu~
Well you are obviously aristocratic.
@Aylen : I would love to hear your arguments for Delta!
You write that you are intimidating. An explanation on that part would be enlightening.
Apart from that; you repeatedly mentioned your distrust of people which is ...weird. Maybe it's not the people but your own manipulative behavior and lack respect.
"The effect of American popular culture on the productivity of the modern man"
You make big statements on complex issues . That's judgment without further investigation or very shallow research - Te-Hidden-Agenda.
Your own typing says ENFj - but you are not Fe-Leading:
You look down on people who are not productive (from your perspective) or who have different values than you.
I am friends with an LSI and I can tell you that he looks for someone who is more selfless and friendly to people than what you described.
What characteristics do you admire in people who are more intelligent than you?
Some will describe your worldview as narrow and outdated, but there have always been people who share your kind of worldview ("society-is-to-blame"-trope) - that does not speak against Ne-Leading
Interest in health: could be Si-dual-seeking.
Likes people of few words: Oh boy I know the perfect ISTp for you.
I go with ENFp.
I was kind of in the zone that day. Not sure why I even remember but I do. Anyway I was going through some threads and posting first impressions. I remember reading the whole post and it just vibed very delta. I didn't look any deeper. I will read again and respond if anything new comes to me. :content:
It was originally: "Man of few words, but such words are law".
How is that ISTp?
Also, "You look down on people who are not productive (from your perspective) or who have different values than you". Not tolerating different values is not Delta so not IEE.
For OP, I would not exclude a Se/Ni Logical type, actually but don't want to say yet which one
Woah! Where did time go? TBH, I completely forgot that I posted this.
I apologize for any of my offensive or blunt statements, and late follow-up/reply. Once I go through the replies, I'll post a more thorough response/update.
After reading the responses, I am trying to determine if I am an ENTp or ENFp. Additionally, I believe my girlfriend of almost two years is either ISTp or ISFp.
It was meant to be humorous and to underline my ENFp-guess :)
I think we can agree that SLI are not really talkative (except in a trusted circle or one on one).They are reserved in social situations, are really knowledgeable (even haughty) and act like their way is the only rational option. ENFp's need people who can explain things but don't talk too much.
But yeah - the quote fits other types like LSI as well.
I agree with everything below, 100%. So I guess it is safe to assume that I am an ENFp?
1. Never tell Huxley "you should," "you must" and so on. At best, it will be perceived as a violation of Huxley’s freedom and the underestimation of his abilities. "Do not tell me what to do, and I will not tell you where to go."
2. If you want him to do something, offer work that is interactive, during which he will be able to interact with others and/or see something new.
3. If you want your Huxley to take up household chores - help him out, or better yet do them yourself. Believe me, it is much easier to take out the trash yourself in five minutes than to spend half an house removing bits of trash from all over the apartment. While Huxley will be eternally grateful to you.
4. Don’ be upset with his inconsistency - he is always looking for new experiences, new people and relationships, and likes building castles in the air. Do not look at quantity of his friends - it rarely turns into quality.
5. If he finds you interesting, he will always find time to meet with you, if not - a thousand reasons not to come.
6. If Huxley is smiling at you and laughing at everything you say, this does not mean that he is in love with you. He just likes to please people!
7. Huxley ignores another person usually when he was very offended by him or her, or if he is simply not interested in that person. And most often this happens consciously.
8. Do not pressure Huxley to give promises. It is necessary to distinguish phrases "I will try, attempt, give it a shot" and "I will certainly do exactly this." If any circumstances change, the promises may also lose their meaning and change.
9. Huxley does not like gloomy and miserable people if he cannot somehow help them somehow or comfort them. If you need support - he is always ready to become a "knight on a white horse," even if you aren’t friends. But constant whining and bemoaning has a depressing effect on him, and he will run off.
10. Huxley detests when someone is being unjustly hurt, especially the weak and defenseless, he immediately begins to attack the offender. Therefore, in his presence, try not to attack and offend anyone – otherwise you risk losing his trust and affection.
11. More often praise Huxley if he did something good or pleasant for you. He will never get tired of hearing compliments, and he will invent all possible efforts to justify your confidence in him.
12. Under no circumstances make scandals in public! Huxley will never forgive you if you accuse him of something in front of everyone. He will fight back by all means to prove how wrong you are.
13. You should not lie to Huxley. Even if he pretends that everything is running smoothly, this does not mean that he is not plagued by doubts. "You don’t know that I know that you are lying, and you don’t need to know this ... for the time being."
14. If Huxley considers you a close friend, don’t ask "Can I hug you, kiss you ...? '. Just do what you want, and Huxley can easily let you know whether he is likes it or not.
15. Do not rush to fall at his feet, for Huxley likes to win someone over, to surprise them. Before you do anything of this kind, make sure that he truly values you and that he is also invested.
16. Do not repeat too often, "I love you" – that he sees well himself. A kind, gentle look and a prepared dinner will be enough for him.
17. Take good care of his health, of his well-being. It is appreciated. If Huxley is warm and cozy, he will surround you with love and joy.
18. To support Huxley, it is sufficient to say that you're on his side, and those who are against him are spiteful and envious.
19. Huxley does not remember evil (will commit an offense and forget it) and he is not vindictive, he will not conceal resentment for long. But once you have seriously failed him, he will no longer go to you, considering you an unreliable and untrustworthy person.
20. Sometimes we Huxleys play. Play not for the public, but for ourselves. It’s just more interesting like this! We like to dream and come up with new ideas, but do not condemn us or accuse us of lying.
21. It is not true that Huxley likes to talk incessantly. He is just filling pauses in the conversation! Hence don’t be quiet and go mute, you should at least occasionally say "Uh-huh", "Yes, honey, you're absolutely right!” Speaking seriously, Huxley do not like pulling words from their interlocutor if he is not predisposed to the conversation. In this case, it is easier for him to talk of something himself.
My definition of romantic morals is in regards to how courting/relations are initiated. I am relatively conservative in my views. I believe in chivalry and look down upon hook-up culture. I favor monogamy and require emotional attachment for sexual intimacy. Although, once I am emotionally attached, I am very sexual and uninhibited. I do have trust issues, specifically in relationships, due to concerns of infidelity.Quote:
Extreme standards for romantic morals
I have been told that I am initially intimidating. When first interacting or presenting myself in public, I am silent and somewhat glaring. This is often because I am scanning for a current social hierarchy and I see no benefit in socializing with random public people. I respect my superiors, compete with my equals/weaker, and sympathize for those that are loyal/submissive to me. I am secretive and distrustful of people so I have no interest in sharing personal information in most circumstances. This is also influenced by my large physique and confident gait.Quote:
Another question is about this recurring theme of you being "intimidating" - what does this look like?
I truly do not know what specifically makes me ´intimidating´. I have only been told this multiple times by others, so I assume that this is a trait I unconsciously present.
Take a look at LSE.
I do not think so. I have two or three LSE friends. One thing that I have noticed from a female LSE specifically, in regards to stereotypical LSEs... they talk so much if encouraged the opportunity.
Nothing bad either, often it is constructive and interesting topics. But they can go on for hours talking haha. In summary, I do not see much similarities. Additionally, I become very stressed, depressed, lost of energy, and procrastinate when it comes to busy/repetitive work, which ESTjs often have a strong capacity for.
I know of many INFjs because I am in a secondary major for game design and product development (artsy fartsy). I do not get along with them. I often become impatient with them and in return, they think I am blunt and inappropriate in my behavior. Sorry to be rude, but I often think that a lot (not all) of INFjs do not fully incorporate themselves in their success, thus not accepting responsibility for their own difficult situations. Instead they say, "why is my life so hard, I do not deserve this?"
I do not want a submissive partner. I want a loyal and trustworthy partner, possibly snobby too. During the start of relations, I prefer her to make me work for it, but at the same time provide subtle hints and signs that relations are progressing. I am perfectly satisfied with my SO having their independent interests.Quote:
Would you want a totally loyal and submissive partner in a romantic relationship too?
Basically, I want a person that supports my principles of striving to be a two-person team that values exclusivity, trust, honesty, independence, self-development, and an extreme ideology of us vs. them. The expectations I ask from her, I uphold for myself too.
Example:
My girlfriend of almost 2 years is a <I think> ISTp. We are both very jealous people. We try to accommodate each other by deleting our Snapchats and permitting the mutual use of each others' phones voluntarily. This may seem extreme, but for us it significantly eliminates our insecurities and strengthens our trust, in which neither of us are ever hiding anything from one another. In contrast, we each have our own independent interests/hobbies (pet projects).
Additionally, when she complains or states that she does not like a specific person. I will on purposely decrease my contact with that person and fully support my SO. Regardless of the situation, I will always prioritize the people I trust.
I was considering LSE as well along with LIE.
LSE likes to keep busy but I'm not sure they like meaningless repetitive 'busy work' but then again, most people don't. Maybe they tolerate it more than some types though.
Anyway, I would say Te lead. Common threads of productivity, business sense, personal and career development, you see yourself and others see you as intelligent, self-confident, and maybe a bit intimidating. The latter could be used to describe Se lead but I don't think Se lead is likely based on your response to the war and militaries question. The way you responded to that suggests strong but not valued Se. Also your response to the question "what makes you cry" -- seeing the weak suffering, wanting to care for them. It could be Si creative at work. The valuing of comfort.
Also your response to the health/medicine question was interesting. Your strong interest in maintaining your health could definitely point at Si creative but then again, I've known Si PoLR types who have been health fanatics, as a way of overcompensating maybe- like they don't know what's enough or sufficient because it isn't a strong function. Also you mentioned about being rather superficial when it comes to appearance. I see this more common in Se valuing types who want to 'impact' others based on the image their appearance creative.
Interestingly one of your values you mentioned was Time. Now this could be socionics Ni valuing but it could be also suggestive of Ni PoLR in the LSE if you are always concerned about your time management skills, worried about having enough time, etc.
There were a couple of things that could suggest Ni creative-
*Having long conversations about future prospects and forecast for humanity from a moral and scientific perspective. I would see the future prospects as Ni, the scientific perspective being Ni/Te and the moral perspective as the valued Fi.
*Interest in biology- the caring for organisms as Si creative, the scientific aspect as Te, but the planning and predictions part would be more Ni related.
*Your response to your relationship with society:
"I feel extremely emotionally isolated and mentally different to that of society. As a whole, I see us as a once successful race, but seem to have loss sight in our moral purpose and existence as a species.
Aspects or activities that effect the ideology of society as a whole, in which results in a different outlook that has negative effects long term due to growing inefficiency. Modern popular culture, such as 'YOLO', I believe it encourages unproductive and degrading behavior among the younger populations."
--I see lots of Te/Ni in here. Where society is headed towards in the future, the growing inefficiency and also the valued Fi- the loss of moral purpose.
So in conclusion, I'm not quite clear if you're more LSE or LIE but Te/Fi valuing is apparent and Te lead seems clear.
Provide reasoning, then, instead of just saying "noo".
I was considering LIE myself lol, where I said possible Se/Ni Logical type.
The point is, this sentence from OP is the pov of someone with weak Sensing. So unless OP wanted to emulate something like that, it pretty much is a strong sign of weak Si.Quote:
LSE likes to keep busy but I'm not sure they like meaningless repetitive 'busy work' but then again, most people don't. Maybe they tolerate it more than some types though.
LSE with Ni PoLR won't see all repetitive work as meaningless. I don't see how this categorical statement would come from an LSE.
I wouldn't say intelligence or self-confidence has anything to do with Te.Quote:
Anyway, I would say Te lead. Common threads of productivity, business sense, personal and career development, you see yourself and others see you as intelligent, self-confident, and maybe a bit intimidating.
But, sure, I did notice a lot of Te themes. Some of it quite Gamma though it overall looks a bit mixed in terms of quadra values superficially (Beta-Gamma-Delta... which is common, hence my not typing off quadra values much).
The very technical language tipped me off to Logical type originally. Assuming ofc that this is natural to OP.
A lot of themes of weak Sensing, at the same time somewhat like Se valuing. And overall I don't see OP as really "here" like Sensing types, goes off into "far away" and "idealistic" notions way too easily.
LIE-Te seems fine. @KanRen
A couple notes:
Ehh that question isn't good to decide much about Se.Quote:
The latter could be used to describe Se lead but I don't think Se lead is likely based on your response to the war and militaries question. The way you responded to that suggests strong but not valued Se.
It was an Intuitive answer - seeing beyond the physical. (Where it talks about swaying things big without physical methods.)
That was Fi mainly with the focus on suffering of beings. Not specifically talking about comfort as main priority.Quote:
Also your response to the question "what makes you cry" -- seeing the weak suffering, wanting to care for them. It could be Si creative at work. The valuing of comfort.
No. I don't care about proving anything to anyone. If OP is interested he'll look into it and decide for himself. And based on his follow-up post to my suggestion he's already eliminated LSE as something he wants to look into. So, what exactly would be the point? Wait, no, don't answer that, it was rhetorical.
OK I see you added all this after I replied to you.
My point was, if we disregard the fundamentals of the system (Socionics here) then there isn't much of a point of using it at all.
What was specifically disregarded here was how Sensing as a preference is defined. Now, if the issue is about how OP conveyed his thoughts, that's a different matter, but here his statement seemed pretty unambiguous.
Of course OP decides their typing for themselves in the end, hopefully well-informed with regard both to the Socionics system and to their own self-image.
I don't think you understand what the term "busy work" means. It is things given to you that have no purpose whatsoever and are merely done to keep a person occupied. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who actually enjoys doing things that further no goals, have no purpose, accomplish nothing, particularly a Te leading type. After all, if you want to get down to the socionics fundamentals as you say then here's a basic definition:So doing things that have zero benefit wouldn't exactly be a strong point of any Te leading type, would it? I feel like these things shouldn't have to be explained as it's part of the basic theory, but nuances of phrase can of course be misinterpreted.Quote:
Originally Posted by wikisocion
You guessed wrong - my point that I already explained to chips in an earlier post above is that different people see different things as "busy work". Low Si types have a problem with repetitive tasks, which is what OP talked about. For these people it's easy to call them "busy work" while another person would disagree since they'd actually find a point in the job.
I don't see the need to point out basic theory here. See above.Quote:
It is things given to you that have no purpose whatsoever and are merely done to keep a person occupied. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who actually enjoys doing things that further no goals, have no purpose, accomplish nothing, particularly a Te leading type. After all, if you want to get down to the socionics fundamentals as you say then here's a basic definition: So doing things that have zero benefit wouldn't exactly be a strong point of any Te leading type, would it? I feel like these things shouldn't have to be explained as it's part of the basic theory, but nuances of phrase can of course be misinterpreted.
No. Just fucking stop. You will go on for days if I let you trying to find a way to be right and I seriously don't have the patience for it. I gave a suggestion for the OP, he thought about it and discarded it, end of story. I have nothing more to say on this.
After reading - IEE?
Well, I do appreciate Myst's and Squark's extensive assistance in helping me determine my Socionics personality type. I apologize to Squark if it seemed that I quickly dismissed her recommendation of LSE.
After further evaluation and research, I most identify with ENTJ-Te. Additionally, this is what I have tested as in MBTI. Below, I have pasted the male descriptions for ENTj/LIE and ESTj/LSE and made notes in how I identify to each paragraph.
In youth, LIE male is practically always thin and mobile. He's frequently attractive and flirtatious, as well as charismatic, resourceful, ingenious and mysterious. His dressing style is very simple; he prefers neutral-colored and plain clothing e.g. jeans and a t-shirt. Only when the LIE male grows older and achieves a higher position in society does he start to wear suits and the like. Commonly has short hair, because its easier to manage.
I am physically thin/fit. I am mysterious and resourceful. I am not fully aware if I am flirtatious or charismatic.
My dressing style is not simple, but monotonous. I always wear a long-sleeve button down, with a matching vest over it, blue jeans, and white Adidas shoes. I own 5 pairs of the same dark-blue 36 X 34 elastic jeans. I wear my two lucky gold rings and family gold chains. I always slick back my hair with bathroom soap. This is my everyday-winter wardrobe, regardless of location or event. I hate coats, I feel constricted.
LIE male rarely keeps still. He rushes right by forgetting to greet you, which is not surprising considering the speed at which he is moving. In such situations you may only take note of his elongated nose and protruding ears.
This seems accurate. When I was a child, my family and friends gave me the nickname, "Kangeroon". As my real name is Cameron and I am 'always bouncing around'.
Despite his high mobility, in business LIEs are very organized people. In childhood one can already notice that they are very capable; they quickly grasp the material taught to them, and generally do well in school. Love to engage in sports; prefer type of sport that does not require sheer application of force, but instead good reaction time. Speed almost puts them under a spell. Jumping from a helicopter onto a snow-covered slope and then making a high-speed descent on skis - this is quite in their style. They love to feel adrenaline circulating in their bloodstream.
I hated school, but yes I rarely got worst than a 3.85 unweighted GPA, all AP courses. I love volleyball, martial arts, and somewhat basketball. I enjoy the feeling of an adrenaline rush.
But in day-to-day, mundane matters, LIE males are poorly coordinated - at home they may run into a door or a corner. Poor coordination is augmented by their absent-mindedness. They can be thinking about work and miss their stop, or forget to turn on the washing machine or turn off the water in sink.
Yes, I admit I am clumsy and absent-minded. These traits are quite accurate for me.
LIE males have many acquaintances. They are enthusiastic and sociable, like to joke and laugh, thus in social gatherings they are indispensable. With their quick-witted, funny remarks they can all evening long entertain those attending.
I do have a lot of acquaintances. I do not have much "close friends". I rarely go to social gatherings for sake of purely socializing, as I view it unproductive. Although, during team sports or mandatory social events, I often try to display a humorous persona.
A woman does not need to devote time thinking how to get acquainted with LIE man. He himself will go through the trouble. First, he has the remarkable ability to see everything around him, so that if you appear somewhere next, he will immediately note you. Second, he will readily show initiative (which is actually what he frequently does) - and you are already acquainted!
This I am a bit unsure. I often do have difficulty initiating contact with females that I find attractive, even more so if they are introverted. Although, if I am assured that the specific female shares mutual feelings, I am glad to initiate. This could also be influenced by my traditional Chinese upbringing, I was not permitted to date when I was younger.
From this point on you don't need to strain yourself - because if LIE man has selected you, he will not disappear, he will himself make calls and come to visit you. But so that he finds it interesting to spend time together, you will need to concern with. LIE man primarily needs decency, faithfulness, and kind treatment.
I will definitely do this, given that I know that the other person enjoys my company and 'likes' me. I highly value faithfulness. Although, I assume that this is pretty universal.
Don't take note if sometimes he may seem somewhat rude. In interaction with people he is indeed clumsy, at times making offensive remarks, other times taking offense over something. Sometimes LIE male is prone to falling into depressed state. This means that he doesn't have a real, worthwhile job or project where he could realize himself to the maximum. What can you do, everyone has their faults, but he also has many other good characteristics.
I agree with 100%. I constantly say, "I am just joking" after stating a possibly offensive joke (see my original post above), as a precautionary, in case my interlocutor takes offense. I did suffer from a brief state of medically diagnosed depression during my sophomore year in high school. I was overloaded with studies and felt that my life served no purpose, just more studies.
Also you need to know that he is not the kind who solves problems "with fists", with brute force. This is a relatively soft, even a bit indecisive man, who avoids power collisions.
Yeah, I prefer not to get into unorganized fights or public disputes. Especially, in regards to someone that I do not care about. In contrast, I enjoy competition and secretly deceiving/defeating my opponents. But I do not want the public to know, as this would damage my credibility.
From life of LIE male: "One time we went on vacation with my husband. We rented a room on first floor. Suddenly in the middle of the night I hear that someone is climbing through our window. I've gotten frightened, started to wake him up. When I managed to wake him up and explain what is happening, he turned around and politely asked" Excuse me, sir, what did you need here?"
As a husband, the LIE is little concerned with everyday chores and upkeep duties. He is not interested in thinking about creating comfort at home. He won't devote a lot of time to taking care of food and his (and your) health. It would be best if you take care of all such matters.
I agree. I have no interest in comfort or repetitive tasks. Actually, I take pleasure in putting myself in difficult positions, such as not taking any medication/pills when sick or in pain. I feel accomplished and proud to know that my body can endure anything.
With children a man of this type is friendly, but prefers older children, who are much more interesting for him to be around. As for younger kids, their presence at home is always accompanies with some kind of physiological issues - damp pampers, gases and burps, and this LIE male does not like. Thus take the sanitation matters under your own responsibility. Ask him to care of small children only infrequently and only when it is urgent. May be this is not very comfortable ... but console yourself with the fact that it is so fun to be around him! And also that he will always come up with ways to make a lot of money.
I have not experienced this. Although, when I am with younger children, it often results in me watching a children's movie/TV show with them on my lap. Sometimes, I narrate and pause the movie/show, so that they can understand the perspective and objects within the plot. Example: "What type of train is Thomas?" "Locomotive" "Good job Khelen! :)"
Additionally, I do not feel strong attachment to children, as they are not my blood/children.
I do want a lot of money... hehe.
LIE males who have been endowed not only with intellect but also with organizer talent, prefer to keep a stable job where they usually achieve the highest positions, become directors and business owners. Other LIE males who have more of a hunter ardor, strive to work in consulting or as crisis managers, where they also become very successful.
Without work LIE turns sour, life becomes boring for him. Imagining a man of this type without having something to do can be done only theoretically. This is because LIE male usually leaves the company several months before problems arise, usually to a better salary. He will never be in low demand: with his capabilities and his connections, he has a wide selection of places where he can realize his talent and passion for work.
I love working in diverse, challenging, and variable environments. I can say that when I played multiplayer strategy video games, such as Tribal Wars. I would often sell information to enemies or assemble my personal group when I felt that my current team is degrading.
Difficulties with LIE male arise when he gets into bouts of formalism (as home as well as at work). This usually occurs when something is not going well. His dissatisfied and grouchy demeanor betray his inner tension. Then come the accusations: "I don't understand what you're telling me" or "First explain to me what for are we doing this" or "Formulate this more concisely and concretely".
A previous rant from me on another forum:
In such moments, it is difficult to find common language with LIE male. Try to change his state, do something that he understands how positively you're predisposed towards him. When he calms down, after some time you can continue the discussion this time around hopefully with more success.Quote:
No. What was annoying was him beating around the bush. Just say why DJ removed his YouTube Channel. I don't want to be forced-fed another theory of 'mana' during a video about another psychological theory. Just tell me the factual reason of the original subject...
This video should have been a 2 minute clean-cut explanation of DJ's resignation. The end. Not a 13 minute ramble of him trying to put emphasize on an obviously typed speech on his laptop as he tries to advertise and justify his own ideologies. JUST TELL ME THE FACTS, FUCK YOUR OPINIONS.
The only way to 'change my state' of mind is for a person to show a very sad expression (cry). I immediately feel bad and become sympathetic/apologize. Although, I think a lot of people would respond like this...
I bolded the statements/characteristics that I agree with.
You can recognize SHTIRLITS by his confident, practical demeanor. He has a courageous, strained bearing, usually engages in sports and takes care of his appearance. Men of this type as a rule prefer short haircuts. Their facial features are distinct and symmetrical. Their gaze looks solid. SHTIRLITS makes an impression of respectable, imposing man, always dressed well and shaved cleanly. Sometimes you can meet SHTIRLITS dressed in looser clothing such as sweaters, but he looks most natural in a tie and a suit.
SHTIRLITS imparts a solid impression at first acquaintance, and seems benevolent and affable. However, as soon as conversation comes to work and distribution of tasks, he converts into a serious, organized, determined manager, and his expression turns from smiling to austere.
In childhood, boy of this type is solid, clever, and thorough. He acquires knowledge slowly but surely. Anything that was put into his head will remain there forever, but the process of mastering new material happens slowly for him. This child is more practically oriented, and therefore theoretical studies often don't find a response in his soul. However, where it is necessary to do experiments or make something by hands, his interest will have no bounds. He loves seeing his work producing direct concrete results, and will not simply occupy himself with esoteric material.
Any subjects can be covered by a child of this type. He is assiduous and has a well developed conscientiousness, which this allows him to study well, especially if his studies are necessary for something.
I completely disagree with this! I can not study material that I cannot utilize for future implementation.
Example: In high school, I often paid other students to complete tedious work for me. Such as my Forensics science class, or English reading report about a fictional story. I would cut/modify the phrases out, and sell modified versions of my HW to other students so that I did not lose money/broke even. I would replace all the verbs with 'blanks' so that my customers would be required to state their own verb. I never tried to make money from this or increase the size of my customer base as it only further increased the threat of being caught. I only wanted to break even, and make my time efficient by outsourcing unneeded processes.
Because they have good coordination, boys of this type typically succeed in sports, especially in ones that require good reaction time and high speed.
SHTIRLITS is also very sociable in childhood as well as in adulthood. He participates readily in what goes on around him and strives to be useful and helpful in his own manner.
A story from real life: "When I worked as a camp leader, there was an unpleasant incident that occurred with a girl from neighboring camp. She went to go for a walk in the fields with a guy from the camp, and it ended such that the he nearly raped her. As soon as I learned about this, I immediately found her as she has returned from the field in a stressed state - and tried to provide her with help. In these cases, it is needed that the person calms down. Therefore it is needed that he or she relaxes. I did everything that was required: let her talk her heart out, then made her hot tea and directed her to the bed."
SHTIRLITS is not much interested in people, but friendship is very important for him. Moreover, he does not shy from participating in large social gatherings. Especially if the group gathers according to some tradition or holiday, such as birthday, anniversary, international women's day or a recurring fishing trip. Even if the meeting does not happen on his territory, SHTIRLITS, as a rule, takes management into his own hands. In such events, all the toasts will be said, quality food will be offered, and all the corresponding jokes and anecdotes will be told. SHTIRLITS willingly participates in the celebration, consciously or unconsciously helping to organize it.
I disagree with this. I only serve as the 'leader' if the specific subject is important to me, or there is no possible leader present. Without this, I am perfectly fine working in the background and watching. I will never subordinate myself to anyone that I deem as unqualified. I maintain my right of independence at all times.
The kind of woman that he marries he will select for himself. It is difficult to influence or manipulate him in this respect, because he is a person of exceptionally sound reason who solidly stands on ground with his own two feet. He can only be subtly and delicately directed towards a decision, which he will make after he thinks everything through. Most of all, he values decency, delicacy of manner, good upbringing, and finesse of the soul. The most valuable that he can offered is good relations. Specially, the ability of a woman to maintain good relations with him, as well as with his friends, evokes a flow of warm feelings in him and appreciation for her.
Men of this type prescribe to traditional values, such as home, family, children. They try to attain a solid position for themselves. If SHTIRLITS has married, then he most certainly has not done it for a short duration.
As a husband, he is one of the most reliable and most thoughtful men. Not only does he provide for his family, but he also worries about the household chores and matters. At his home you will not find burnt out lamps or broken appliances. Being a designer by nature, SHTIRLITS will create a fashionable and elegant interior for his home that will rival the work of a professional.
Because this man is a food gourmand, he also seriously and responsibly relates to food. Thus, try to ensure that he has quality and diversity in his meals. Sometimes he himself with pleasure will cook for his family, especially on holidays, and it will be always very tasty.
I rarely ever cook. I eat the same meal every day: teriyaki salmon with peas and broccoli, dark chocolate, and fat-free milk. In regards to food, I rarely explore.
In your conversations with your LSE husband, try to forgo themes connected with future prospects. Do not discuss with him, how he sees the future of your relations, when he wants to have children, how long it will take to purchase new condominium or summer house. Curiosity may get the better of you, but such conversations are distasteful to him. Although he will take on a clever look and mysteriously keep silent, you must know that he and himself does not know when all this will happen. In such cases, what can he say to you? He does not want to drop his merit in your eyes!
I am the opposite. I enjoy future planning very much, in all aspects and subjects. It makes me feel more confident and direction about our goals and how we plan to achieve them.
As fathers, male LSEs are strict and demanding, but patiently train their children to appreciate order and organization. They are also not indifferent to the successes of their children in school. He will without fail ensure that his son or daughter receive higher education after finishing school.
Bossy and responsible, SHTIRLITS has a talent for keeping up the ideal order in his house as well as in his workplace. He also loves and knows how to show care for his close ones, as well as for his co-workers or subordinates. If you need qualified advice concerning topics such as health or food or home maintenance, ask SHTIRLITS. But only during work breaks, because when he is working it is best not to distract him.
If SHTIRLITS is your boss (men and women of this type commonly rise to management positions), then from you he will demand that you correctly follow the procedures. He always knows what needs to be done, and how to do it, and is ready to explain to others what responsibilities lie under their jurisdiction. However, he is often too direct and may sound rough. With this he risks to offend his co-workers and subordinates. In hearts, can even yell at someone. So if you don't want to have any trouble with him, simply do not give this much attention. This is simply how he is.
I value efficiency and results over 'procedure'. But I do not want anyone threatening or jeopardizing the project or purpose of our intention. Thus, there is a limitation in what I will permit.
Behind circumstantiality of SHTIRLITS, there is always a need to bring order, first in his thoughts, and only then take action. Thus, first provide him with required information, then give him time to absorb the conditions of the problem. Most importantly, don't hurry him, don't knock him from his course by bringing additional information, don't disturb him while he is thinking. Order in everything for SHTIRLITS is an absolutely necessary thing. And remember - no hurry and no fussing!
I am rarely impulsive. Additionally, even then its not impulsive actions that will have long-term effects. It is calculated impulsivity. There's your oxymoron!
If you, however, have managed to knock him off his track, then wait for reprimands corroborated by formal logic. You will receive them in full. "On what basis have you decided that you can do this? What facts or documents that confirm your assertions?" or something of this kind. If things have come to this, don't argue, you will not succeed in convincing him in such moments. Postpone the conversation until later time.
I prefer to resolve confusion/disagreement immediately. I hate putting things off.
In professional sense, SHTIRLITS is suitable for work practically anywhere where work requires realistic knowledge, high qualification, and that implies responsibility. They make for excellent architects, designers, pharmacists, surgeons, stomatologists, businessmen, chemists, physics, publishers, and so forth. But it is best that they do not engage in psychology.
I'm glad if it helped.
And don't worry, I don't think @squark took it personally that you didn't agree with LSE, she just had a beef with me, not with you.
P.S. I glanced at your LIE/LSE comparison. Seems LIE enough over LSE. Had to laugh at that thing with you outsourcing the tedious parts of homework and then breaking even. :lol:
@squark, actually, that reminds me; I don't get what you took so personally, hence the shrug earlier. Idk what you said "fucking stop" about, either, but it's ridiculous that you got upset about a simple logical argument. Now end of story from my end too.
Haha, you are the fourth person on this forum recently who brings up this typing for me.
Anyway, it's true that I'd be able to keep up the argument if we continued :p, and only strong arguments work for me, but if you are not into it, just say that instead of taking it so personally, simple as that.
Could I be an LII/INTj? I relate to a lot of the LII descriptions regarding the male and subtypes.
TBH, I think more so than the LIE or LSE.
The main problem with descriptions and identifying with them is that the things you relate to may not be directly connected to type, or only loosely so. The way you describe yourself: intimidating, initiative-taking and so on don't sound very LII and there are several possibilities for why you identify with the description - among them that you actually are LII and your self-description was somehow misleading, or that you are identifying with parts of the description that could fit other types just as well, and etc. SubT made a test that I like quite a lot and seems to do a pretty good job of sorting out what matters and is type-related from what isn't. You can find it here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Socionics-Test Also, sometimes looking at the information elements in isolation can clarify things.
You can try it the other way around and analyze (and rank) your intertype relations by typing others. That way you can eliminate type possibilities.
That means you have to get out of your own head and focus more on others behavior (I' not trying to offend you :) we are really bad at observing ourselves clearly) and you will need time. Confidently typing others always needs time and practice.
Mostly people feel confortable in relations of Duality, Identical, Mirror, Activation, Illusionary and Semi-Duality.
When you are not comfortable with someone - why? What is missing?
-->no help for your weak functions , irritation with Polr
When you cannot help someone -why? How does you approach not benefit the other person? What would you need to do instead (but cannot)?
-->for example: when you are not LII you cannot imitate Ti-leading and Ne-creative for an ESE forever
...
If you are already doing the above you could try this:
Another way is to film yourself while talking (when you are relaxed. Talk about something you find interesting. Don't think to much. "Be natural")
Then compare you body language to other sociotypes.
Yes, talking to a camera feels stupid. :rolleyes:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...es-with-Videos
Yes, so far it seems intertype relations is the most reliable method to determine my true personality type as I am way to wishy-washy regarding my own characteristics.
Like I stated earlier, I do not get along at all with INFjs. I tried to socialize with a few INFjs today, it went horribly. Definitely was not semi-duality.
I will take that test once I have time this weekend. Lol filming myself... uhhh I am going have to think about that one. I honestly think my weakest aspect of my personality is my paranoia, cynical views, and trust issues.
My answer does not stand in the way of him answering to your question, at all. Since he could still be LSI regardless of that. I simply noticed you associated from those things to LSI right away and I don't think that's right.
Btw, I do think your earlier post on interactions with other people would be quite helpful if OP thought through those questions. Much more helpful for typing overall than guessing at types from 1-2 characteristics because that just leads to jumping around the 16 types never ending up anywhere.
Apologies for late reply, I am going have to postpone this thread.
I personally have to resolve current issues that are having significant emotional and mental effects on me. This aspect is likely making it more difficult for me to accurately determine my type.
I will return back to this thread once I have completed my independent research, resolved the issues, and achieved a more stable mentality. I will likely be back in late January, right before Chinese New Years.
Thanks for all the help and I will be considering every input.
-KanRen
LSE probably
Well my situation was quite quick, everything worked out faster than expected :)
After my independent research, I really think I am an ESTp-Logical Subtype. Thoughts?
Below I have pasted the male description and logical sub-type description of what I agree/identify with in bold.
Even if the male Zhukov is thin and slender (though this is rare), nevertheless he looks like a well grounded person who solidly stands on his two feet. His demeanor gives off an impression of a steady, large person. He moves slowly but naturally and with confidence. His judgements sound solid and substantiated.
Usually male SLEs have short or slightly grown out hair and dress neutrally and plainly e.g. in a football shirt, sweater and jogging bottoms. Older male SLEs will often occupy managerial roles in organizations and firms, and thus tend to wear suits and neckties.
Male Zhukovs are usually endowed with healthy dose of practicality. They are strategically-minded and generally have good skills of observation. They have no problem with assuming responsibility. As a result, they nearly always find themselves in positions of leadership. Before you can make ends and tails of a situation yourself, you will have already received clear commands from the male Zhukov on subjects ranging from where to get shovels and rakes to clean the backyard, to who will chop the wood and make fire, to how to organize your business and with which firm you should make a contract.
Male SLEs are clever and talented, and they have a healthy sense of humor (not always the appropriate kind). They exude the presence of a powerful individual, confident in himself. He just enters the room and already the company becomes more lively, from all sides jokes are made and accompanied by explosions of laughter - it is as if he holds the attention of the entire group.
When male Zhukov arrives at his workplace his employees liven up and work starts getting done. He energizes others; people become more mobile, productive and cheerful in his presence. At the same time, nobody wants to fall under his heavy hand and become the target for to his decimating criticism.
Only the foolish and the brave dare to encroach upon the male Zhukov's territory, be it his office table or his seat on a subway car. His territory encompasses his house, his car, his chair, his cup, his pen, and many other of his things. Man of this type is aware of prestige. They appreciate the finer things in life and are willing to spend money on them. Everything that belongs to him will always be of top quality, bigger or better in some other ways. With no doubt one can assume that most of the big expensive cars driven on the roads are owned by male Zhukovs. "Owner" is a suitable title for male Zhukov.
At the same time male Zhukovs are warriors at heart and have little understanding for material, as well as spiritual, excesses. They frequently find themselves in the army where they may progress up the ranks and make excellent generals. A relaxed, stagnant way of life is not for male Zhukov. They are very good at living minimalistically, with only the most basic amenities and supplies. They happily rid themselves of things they believe to be unnecessary.
An example from life: Young father SLE went hiking with his two sons for a week. The route was laid out to the north along wild, desolate area. Because they were gathering in a hurry, they just threw whatever food was at hand into their backpacks. After 2 days, they realized that there wasn't enough food to last the week, and that the nearest populated area was 2-3 days away. So that the children didn't starve, the father went without food for the rest of the journey.
Male SLE is often engaged in competing to accomplish something. His actions are aimed at having large scale implications. Despite their combative attitude, SLE's career prospects aren't limited to business or the army. They often take the role of the ingenious scientist, directing a research group to complete a given project. Due to the SLE's boiling energy, they're frequently pioneers of science and technology. Their systematic thinking, wide worldview, ability to quickly adapt to changing circumstances and embrace that which is novel, as well as their resoluteness, readiness to take responsibility, and skills of risk assessment prove that the SLE is perfectly capable in this field.
Male SLEs are frequently both direct in speech and coarse in their manners. Through this they can commit many blunders in their relations with other people without realizing it. Because of their awareness of power dynamics as well as their strong drive, they often manage to simply break through the situation without harming their interests in any way. If someone mentions to SLE about scheming or manipulation behind his back, he will brush it off and say something like "being afraid of wolves you'll never go to the forest". The SLE won't give attention to such small matters. However, if the SLE sees suspicious or dishonorable behavior in an individual, he will without second thought say it directly.
Appearance
The logical subtype constructs an impression of quiet force and confidence for themselves. They are rational and sequential in affairs; hardworking and hardy. Usually appear cool, sustained and collected, however, in moments of irritation they express their fury in demonstratively sharp, absolute gestures. Within a quiet atmosphere they are kind and polite, while keeping the interlocutor at a distance. Their humor is sharp, sometimes rude, and they bare a quick, mistrustful glare from under their eyebrows. They’re kind but also serious and guarded. Their gait and gestures appear harmonious, smooth and precise. Tends to dress rather monotonously, however, from time to time can also clothe themselves brightly, even extravagantly. Appreciate quality in apparel and often creates many outfits from a few articles. Thus they show concern for both their behaviour and appearance; though they often seem cold and inaccessible they themselves try to appear proper, equal and benevolent, while maintaining their advantages.
Character
Steady and sustained: trying not to lose his equanimity under all circumstances. Reserved and polite in his statements, but can sometimes flare up. Very sorry when it comes out of himself in front of strangers.Authoritative, serious, has a well developed sense of self-esteem. He prefers to talk about what feels competent. Uses formal or well-tested sources of information. New theories, untested practices, hypotheses and assumptions do not trust.Interested in laws and regulations, is able to maintain good documentation. If you turn to him for advice, delves into the details of the case and gives specific advice.Reasonable, says a confident tone, convincing evidence. Very practical, does not like theories and inappropriate actions. In contact with strangers through indirect questions clarifies their position in society, communication, and the possibility of looking for land on which it can come together to solve common business interests.This is a man of action rather than reflection, and when the time comes to respond, he immediately focused under the changed circumstances, boldly goes to the risk, well-weighed all the chances and not losing sight of their interests.Enthusiastically received for a new job. He likes to act boldly, risking "on a major," prepared for this carefully and in detail.Rational, pragmatic, and hardworking. Very logical and practical in business. Punctual and obligatory, demanding to themselves and waiting for the same from others. Monitors the quality of everything. Do not forgive schlock and negligence. Effectiveness assesses not worth the effort, but on the final result.He lives by reason, it puts the above personal feelings, because of what might inadvertently offend his interlocutor, not giving any importance to this.Do not demonstrative, but he likes to emphasize the case for his services. Proud, if everything in life is seeking its own.Mobilized in advance in order to overcome future obstacles, having considered all the risks ahead of the current situation. Always a good feel for the real situation and is able to benefit from it. Knows how to properly arrange the people to do things, well-evaluate their business skills. Difficult to understand and less confidently assess the prospects of affairs and relations.The authoritarian and strong-willed person, but if needed, can be flexible in communication, even to go on temporary assignment for the final goal. Understands the importance of material incentives and knows how to use them, without losing their benefits. Showing kindness to others and friendliness, but in matters strictly requires unity and unanimity.Bored, if no use to his abilities, and if he is forced to follow through on something that he had lost interest or does not constitute for him a practical interest. Only a new experience, and frequent change of the lift of his vitality.Has to attract people attention and specific services. In his heart a little bit suspicious, distrustful and suspicious. Afraid of dirty tricks and treachery of those trusts. Occasionally prone to fall into pessimism and melancholy.Thinking about their problems, especially personal agenda, trying not to spend them in others.In moments of despair, in need of understanding, sympathy and consolation, but because of the distrust is often not decided to be frank. Often resorting to alcohol to relieve stress.Quite secretive, does not like him "climb into the soul" can avoid a direct conversation, skilfully put a person on location. Open heart can only be a very close and tested friend.Restraint in the expression of feelings finds a guarantee of seriousness and reliability. Proud and unobtrusive, does not know how to entertain guests, even the rare compliments to women. Experiencing difficulty in expressing their feelings. Afraid of becoming dependent, even to close friends.
Description by Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69
Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".
Sexual behavior
Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
The logical subtype description explains various aspects of my personality situation. In regards to how I present myself and am viewed, my consistent distrust (hidden agenda), why I dislike INFjs a lot, etc.
I will hold off on the details until I get a better perspective of my interpretations and others' opinions.
These type descriptions are not the way to get typed tbh.
Have you ever looked at the IE descriptions for when they are in Leading function position?
Would you be able to describe what you typically conflict over with the INFjs?
Answering such questions are much more relevant to typing.
Hello,
Since my last post, I have began to side with being ESTj/LSE - Si. I have came to this conclusion after reviewing the IE Descriptions, Erotic Attitudes, and Duality Descriptions written by Stratiyevskaya.
Erotic Attitudes:
I do not identify with being a 'victim' in the Erotic Attitudes Theory. I identify more with 'caregiver'. The ESTj and INFj duality description seems very accurate to the relational development with my current SO. I always initiate physical intimacy, and obviously more dominant. But I also take a more 'caring' technique, such as fixing her car & electronics, carrying her stuff, buying food, etc. I realized my expressions of affection relate a lot to Si. I provide for the current moment and environment - making sure we are comfortable and safe. In contrast, I read that ENTjs are more mentally and intellectually 'challenging' to their partners. I do not really see this trait in me, as it feels like I would be 'attacking' my partner.
Positivism vs. Negativism:
Another primary difference between ENTj and ESTj is positivism vs. negativism. Primarily in regards to Fi and people, I am very cynical and distrustful of the intentions/feelings of others. When I meet new people, my initial impression is relatively negative even though I do not publicize it.
Possible Duality:
I believe my SO is an INFj. Originally, I thought INFj were 'deep', a bit out there, disorganized, and dreamy people. This seems like an exaggeration within the MBTI descriptions, as INFPs are often portrayed as lost artists. The Oldham Description describes her principles and values quite accurately. She is very gentle and outgoing but at the same time reserved about her inner feelings. Even after 2 years, I still truly do not fully know her deep thoughts/opinions. These characteristics are polar to me. I am much more upfront, and honest (sometimes too much).
I retract my previous statement of not getting along with INFjs. I miss identified these individuals and believe that they are ISFps. I have noticed a few physical patterns with these people that I view as the same personality type. They are relatively 'artsy', a lot of them wear sandles with socks, some have dyed hair, dislike me 'watching' them, have a lot of dramatic displays of emotions/quick mood swings, and often are overweight. I apologize if this is offensive to anyone.
Information Elements:
I found the following quote from the Ni as Vulnerable Function very accurate, "when talking about the future, especially one's longer-term plan), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first." I associated my tendency to plan the future as an ENTj trait. But what I did not realize was that my plans primarily consist of the final results and not the processes/steps in between.
I relate with the Oldham ESTj description about 95%, by far the most accurate description thus far. The only statement I have slight disagreements with is statement 4 in the first listing about "Belief in playing fair". http://www.the16types.info/info/types/ESTJ.htm
My personality type search has been narrowed down to ENTj or ESTj. I think the only way for me to gain complete confidence in my decision is through experiencing intertype relations and understanding how I cooperate with each type. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you again for all previous help!
Very interesting. ENTj or ESTj.
I am ENTj, I have a few friends of both types, and my mother is ESTj. Honestly, it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between these Kindred types if you aren't actually in the presence of one or the other. In that case, the differences are almost unmistakable (to me, anyway), but they are hard to describe.
Here is what I look for:
ENTj's are quicker than ESTj's. They move quicker, and they jump from one thought to the next quicker. (What is quicker? -problem.)
ESTj's seem much more grounded than ENTj's. They seem more solid, more deliberate.
ENTj's are always thinking of the best possible future and how to bring it about, sometimes by using highly speculative methods which, while seeming speculative or even naive to a casual observer, somehow will still usually work, when other methods fail.
ESTj's are much better at perfecting things which already exist, sometimes beyond all expectations, based on what has been proven to work in the past. ESTj's are more likely to implement something that stays within the commonly accepted rules, to ensure that it will be most widely accepted.
ENTj's don't care very much about your opinions of them. They may try to understand your viewpoint, but it is usually for the purpose of understanding all the obstacles in the path to their objectives (you being one possible obstacle), or to be able to influence you into following their course of action. They often find out what you want, and give it to you (if efficient) so you will internalize their goals (basically, so they don't have to bother with watching you every minute).
ESTj's care a great deal about your opinion of them and how you perceive them. They basically want to be respected by strangers. They can be less concerned with the opinions of their family members.
ENTj's as supervisors don't micromanage you. They carefully and clearly assess your strengths (and won't tell you this unless you ask), give you an assignment that they think is just a bit of a stretch for you, and leave you alone to find a way to do it in the way you best see fit, only coming around to check to see if you need any more resources and to look at the final product.
ESTj's give you detailed instructions (and need detailed instructions) for carrying out any task. They will frequently check up on you to ensure that you are following their instructions to the letter.
ENTj's dress either like bums or with a certain expensive (if they get help) flair, because they like to be seen as unconventional; as the only one.
ESTJ's dress with great good taste, usually because they have studied men's magazines and have excellent taste in clothes which are conventionally acceptable, because they want to be respected by the group.
ENTj's often can be seen with a posse. You can call it whatever you want, but ENTj's like to have a bunch of people around them to lend them support. They may not ask those people for support, they may not seem like they need support, but they will still like to have a number of people around them.
ESTj's never have a posse. They are solitary animals.
ENTj's are positivists and will promise you the moon and the stars, but might only deliver a giant asteroid. On the other hand, sometimes what the ENTj's deliver is something that you can't get anywhere else.
ESTj's are negativists and will under-promise and often over-deliver, but the product will be very conventional.
ENTj's prefer to be in a chaotic environment, where they walk in and efficiently fix things. (In the past, one of my customers told me that I was like the 82nd Airborne, because I drop in, look around at the people running everywhere in panic because the place is on fire, assess things and fix the problem, and bounce out.)
ESTj's prefer to be in stable environments, where incremental changes can make things better without blowing the place up.
ENTj's typically either want to, or inexplicably find themselves in a position where they, run a company. Their methods are unconventional and they can be disruptive if things are running too smoothly.
ESTj's make superb middle managers in large companies, because they fit in and work extremely hard.
When relaxing, ENTj's are working on some other projects which will pay off in the future.
When relaxing, ESTj's are either fishing or working on their boats and gear or their house or car.
ENTj:
likes to experiment in order to make everything more efficient even if turns out to be less efficient and irritating (for others) in the short term.
LIE can change their mind often. They are like human Advent calenders - every day something new happens. (New working hours, tables in different places or the LIE decides to work alone only to return a week later because he can't stand being alone). An outsider never knows what going on in their head because they come up with the most unusual solutions
Overly trusting sometimes, not pushy (indirectly at best) does not try to control people and makes sure no one tries to control him. Will behave like a child to make that clear - by demonstratively overstepping boundaries (not personal boundaries, just house rules or the like) , talk back and provoke
On optimism (Reinin trait) and planning for the future:
One time the LIE had a plan where we would finish three projects by the following month. The SLI and I never believed it would work out (and it didn't because other projects and details needed maintenance) but in his head it was completely possible
LIE make optimistic prognoses for the future and have a picture in their head what they want from life. They always make plans and if you have a role in his future plans - you will know
On improvement:
LIE believe bad habits need to be eradicated: self optimization. They also try to improve other's habits by making suggestions, sharing knowledge (books) or by straight talk
Hidden Agenda Se:
LIE are insecure about how they look. They try to hide it but look closely and you see someone who thinks he is an ugly duckling although they put (inconsistent!) effort into staying healthy and fit. They can try to pursue a low carb diet and ditch it in the next moment.
When a LIE is in bad spirits you will see it in Si-Porl first: jogging pants instead of jeans, bad sleeping pattern, unhealthy diet, doesn't talk about new ideas- when a LIE is in good spirits he will do sports, look after his diet be more active and sociable again
And they are a bit shy, may bump into things, forgetful of (and don't care about ) surroundings
Impatient: When a LIE says we will test something for two weeks he means 4 days. "Tell me in a week" means tomorrow, evening.
Will organize events and invite people. Often. It's like their whole live spins around 1.their business 2.Recruiting a life partner 3.Friends and exciting activities
ESTj:
Hardworking. Both are. But ESTj have so many projects going on that they may not get enough sleep. They manage time very badly (can't accurately imagine how long something will take) and describe themselves as "spontaneous" (which, from the standpoint of someone who doesn't plan anything, completely inaccurate)
Their presence is "softer" in comparison to LIE. More down to earth, calmer and don't seem to try to figure out the person they are talking to. They are not in a hurry to meet life goals and be ahead of others.
Have no grand visions about the future, plan for short term.
Caring: They appreciate kind people, but other than the LIE they will say it directly when they think you are nice, and since they are negativists they won't try to flirt right away. They don't make sex jokes and don't try to test boundaries.
Respectful and patient.
Look out for their friends, makes sure they keep up, will explain, inform about plan changes, may yield to other people's plans and look for guidance on what to do next and how long it will take.
Some LIE will say "but I am not heartless. I also care about others!" Yes, but it works like this: Lets say LSE and LIE are on trip in the forest with their friends. On of those friends slips out and lands in the mud. The LIE will expect them to get up and deal with it because ESI will do exactly that.The LSE will probably see if he can help and never do this again because uhh mud.
No experiments that might hinder the work process. It is about planning and implementation. Creativity (in the form of new gadgets, optimization ) comes at the end. LSE optimize what is and accept people who who they are. They don't try to sculpt someone into a better human being by criticizing current habits, but work as a pillar in your life.
My duals are not open and accepting of new things easily unlike ILE. My duals don't get personal easily and don't bridge interpersonal distance fast as they do not trust people
I don't see why the LIE typing is to be doubted, really.
I have answered a few questions that was mentioned to me by Horatio.
How were you as a child?
As a toddler, I was told that I was very 'needy'. Ages 5-10, I was somewhat extroverted and social. At a young age, I was stubborn. Example: When I was 7, I disliked soccer. I was not allowed to quit. So during games, I would just sit in the middle of the field. I was never the best student, because I often found the classes boring, not useful, and easy (busy-work). I have always been very adventurous and like exploring within boundaries.
As a child, I found significant enjoyment in drawing battle characters and creating my own 'worlds' with paper cutouts. I would cut paper into different characters/decorate them and eventually create armies, different civilizations, and they would go to war, etc.
In middle school, I was very happy-go-lucky, popular, and social. Around 8th grade, I started thinking more about my future and goals.
For high school, I transferred to a magnet school that was about an hour away from my residency. This limited my social life, because I did not attend school with my neighborhood friends and my friends at school were 'far away'.I was much less social and more formal in high school.
What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
I am currently a freshman in college, and studying a dual major for Computer Science and Graphic Design.
What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job? If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
I do not have reliable experience in the first two questions. Although, when I do look for an official job, I want an organized job that has structure and provide the opportunity for promotions and 'climbing up the ladder'. The job must value profits and results.
What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?
I do not value intellect and social status in another person. I value complete honesty and trustworthiness. This applies to romantic relations too. Additionally, I like possessiveness. I find jealousy and possessiveness attractive in a relationship, in the assumption that it is mutual. I think a lot of people would get annoyed by this in a relationship.
The last question is a bit difficult to answer because I don't really know what others' consider positive/neutral. But I will list characteristics that annoy me.
I don't like 'fun' girls. I dislike impulsive or debauchery behavior.
I do not like people making plans for me. I prefer them to tell me in advance what needs to be done/what is occurring, and then I will adjust my plans accordingly.
I do not like people trying to modify my important morals. I dislike people who are verbally loud or attract attention in public.
I do not like it when someone is 'too nice' to others. I like it when my SO is somewhat snobbish/stand-offish.
I get annoyed when people use euphemism/censor their communication so they don't hurt my feelings. I prefer the negative, direct truth in everything. Even if they try to word it politely, it gets me very annoyed.
I often get annoyed with people, who participate in social activism by disrupting the general order of the public. I would prefer activists who publish articles, share their perspective, form non-profit organizations, or professionally enter politics. I find it disruptive to people who rally in public, boycott, or march.
Example: Recently there have been various student marches in the metropolitan area. Although, they are fighting for a cause, think about all the chaos they cause (traffic, police officers, pedestrians) and the people they stop from returning home to their families. I view it as selfish, nonprofessional, and unproductive to pursue social activism in this form.
What is something you regret?
I regret when I was emotionally detached in previous situations that caused the deterioration of previous friendships. Similarly, I am disheartened about previous events where I caused an awkward moment in emotional situations because I did not know how to respond effectively.
Other than that, I do not have much regrets. Even when I was intoxicated or upset, I maintained awareness of my decisions, etc.
Who do you admire, and why?
I do not admire anyone realistic. To admire someone, I need to meet them personally. Although, I do respect many individuals- specifically those that have simultaneously acquired significant economic success through hardwork and maintained a closely attached family/marriage. I have high respect for memorable men who exhibit significant bravery in battle (often army officers), such as Adiran Carton De Wiart.
I am fond of the fictional characters Nick Wilde from Zootopia and Bugs Bunny, and personas portrayed by George Clooney and Robert De Niro. These characters often appear suave, calm/collected, strategic, and 'a page ahead of everyone'. I admire fictional characters that display an unshakable level of aggression, power, and loyalty. Examples: King Kong (2005), The Hulk.
To be continued...
Some of this is stereotypical ESI :lol:Quote:
I don't like 'fun' girls. I dislike impulsive or debauchery behavior.
I do not like it when someone is 'too nice' to others. I like it when my SO is somewhat snobbish/stand-offish.
I get annoyed when people use euphemism/censor their communication so they don't hurt my feelings. I prefer the negative, direct truth in everything. Even if they try to word it politely, it gets me very annoyed.
Talk about a significant event from your life.
Ugh. I enjoy my life very much. But I do not really have anything 'significant' or noteworthy. I also find this question too general to answer properly. I'd be happy to answer specifics.
What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?
Well if it is an item, normally I will try to buy it from the individual or a store. If someone took something from me/ripped me off, it depends on the situation. For me it is a cost-benefit analysis, if the reason is worth fighting for- then I will use aggression, intimidation, and physical force if necessary. This would only occur if someone attacks me, or offends my close-ones. I am very aggressive and confrontational in defending others that I trust, more so then myself. This aspect is important to me because I feel responsible for my trustees and its a form of honor and dignity for myself. Trustees only include very close friends, SO, and family. I do not like to be responsible for other people. It is not my right to intervene in other peoples' affairs if I am not fully knowledgeable of the situation.
Very rarely do I fight for materialistic purposes, I would rather just walk away and move on. Although I am not a push-over. If someone is clearly being disrespectful towards me, then I have no problem verbalizing it. Example: Today, I was waiting in line for a vending machine. I was next. Then, a guy who is likely a friend of the stranger in front of me tried to cut before me. I immediately recognized and reacted by forcefully moving forward and said, "I am next." They both said something in Spanish, and I ignored them, acquired my snack, and left without responding to them. Yes, they definitely cursed me out but I chose not to react or develop the situation because I got what I want and left. There is not benefit for me to cause confrontation.
If it is something I want from from someone I am close to, I will either persistently ask (emotional persuasion) or try to bargain (logical persuasion). Additionally, my opinion of them will be significantly effected if they are not willing to accommodate me. Although, I rarely want something from others.
What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?
My favorite place to go is Atlantic City, New Jersey and the Bahamas. I have gone to AC as a family tradition since I was 7. Bahamas, I enjoy the weather, environment, people, etc.
My ultimate goal for a place when I get older: I want to live on my own property in the Philippines, 5 acres, construct a mansion or compound, and reside with trustworthy family members and friends. Slightly isolated and secure from exterior threats are preferable. Additionally, maintain my property in the United States.
How do you dress or manage your appearance?
Regularly, I dress with the same dark blue jeans, button down, and vest. Greased back hair, and Adidas shoes. Although if I am forced to wake up early in the morning, I am too lazy to get dressed. So I will often wear sweatpants, etc. But later in the day, I regret that I was too lazy to dress properly.
Do you like surprises?
I generally dislike surprises because after the event, I feel like I owe the person. It just troubles my life more tbh. The only time I do like surprises for are food, intimacy, and personal recognition.
Is there anything else important about you that we should know?
I have never had a birthday party because I was dramatically anxious of people not showing up.
I am very judgmental but rarely voice my opinions when the subject does not matter or hold significant pragmatic/economic incentive or value to me. I do not tell other people what to do unless it affects my life, and I expect the same treatment. This only applies to people I do not have strong attachment to. People that I trust and am emotionally invested, I am very strict and direct in sharing my opinion when I agree or disagree with something.
I have also begun to consider the possibility of being an LSE-Si. I am most likely E8.
I read a post from UDP about ESTJ-Si and having interrogating attitudes towards people/questioning people. I share very similar qualities in those aspects and a lot of his other posts.
I dislike asking people to do stuff for free, especially superiors. Example: One day in class, I lost a study sheet we were using in English. Another student had lost theirs and asked the teacher for a copy. I felt too guilty/awkward to ask, so instead of just getting a new copy. I copied all the writing from my friend's study sheet to a line paper.
My SO who I get along well with (possibly duality), is either an extroverted INFj, ISFj or ENFp.
The only way to really annoy me, is tell me what to do- primarily when it is about insignificant details or hypocrisy, from an individual that I view as unqualified or immoral. Example: I was at a volleyball practice. I was waiting in line to be next for a passing drill and my foot was slightly on the line for the court. I was completely away from the player on the court. A domineering player behind yelled at me to back up. During situations like this, I always ignore the person and continue to pretend that I did not hear them.
Te lead
Se HA: not all that strong Se. The defensive aspect you describe is stereotypically 2D/normative Se (two-dimensional, weak, works by social norms). You walk away from some more complex situations.
A bit more Se HA :) stereotypically though.Quote:
What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?
My favorite place to go is Atlantic City, New Jersey and the Bahamas. I have gone to AC as a family tradition since I was 7. Bahamas, I enjoy the weather, environment, people, etc.
My ultimate goal for a place when I get older: I want to live on my own property in the Philippines, 5 acres, construct a mansion or compound, and reside with trustworthy family members and friends. Slightly isolated and secure from exterior threats are preferable. Additionally, maintain my property in the United States.
Si PoLR.Quote:
How do you dress or manage your appearance?
Regularly, I dress with the same dark blue jeans, button down, and vest. Greased back hair, and Adidas shoes. Although if I am forced to wake up early in the morning, I am too lazy to get dressed. So I will often wear sweatpants, etc. But later in the day, I regret that I was too lazy to dress properly.
More Te baseQuote:
I am very judgmental but rarely voice my opinions when the subject does not matter or hold significant pragmatic/economic incentive or value to me. I do not tell other people what to do unless it affects my life, and I expect the same treatment. This only applies to people I do not have strong attachment to. People that I trust and am emotionally invested, I am very strict and direct in sharing my opinion when I agree or disagree with something.
No way you'd be SLI or LSE-Si, too little Si for that :)Quote:
I have also begun to consider the possibility of being SLI or LSE-Si. I am most likely E8.
Seriously, that would make a lot of people LSE-Si. This is completely not type specific. Instead of reading about a lot of irrelevant detail that's not specific (check out Forer effect too), what's wrong with reading information element definitions/descriptions?Quote:
I read a post from UDP about ESTJ-Si and having interrogating attitudes towards people/questioning people. I share very similar qualities in those aspects and a lot of his other posts.
Curiosity - how do the other LIEs on here relate to this?Quote:
The only way to really annoy me, is tell me what to do- primarily when it is about insignificant details or hypocrisy, from an individual that I view as unqualified or immoral. Example: I was at a volleyball practice. I was waiting in line to be next for a passing drill and my foot was slightly on the line for the court. I was completely away from the player on the court. A domineering player behind yelled at me to back up. During situations like this, I always ignore the person and continue to pretend that I did not hear them.
Hello,
My name is KanRen. I have been determining my Socionics type for several years. Many helpful members suggested I was an ENTj or ESTj. Thanks a bunch for assisting me!
I have finally concluded that I am an ESTp-Ti subtype. I primarily used intertype relations and information elements to resolve my dilemma. So here is some information about me and my perspective of various people in connection with their predicted Socionics type. It may be useful? IDK. Just sit back. Enjoy the rant...
I am a college student. I study Computer Science, Information Systems and Graphic Design. I am in an art scholars program. I hate the students in this program. They all have the 'poor me' disease. My response... "I am sorry that it was so hard for you to grow up as a middle-classed Caucasian individual in the United States." A real struggle.
ExTj Female- She is not an art student. I don't even think she is in college. :indifferent2: She just likes hanging out with some of the artists in our program, which I realized are INFjs. Pretty nice and polite, however she seems kind of disconnected emotionally and doesn't express much. The INFjs she hangs out with is a guy and a girl. Both artsy-fartsy, but very peaceful, passive, no back-bone, couldn't hurt a fly, still a virgin- no-porno type of people. Great people just not really fun to hang out with so I keep my distance.
A lot of the other students are INTjs, specifically my two suite mates. These guys give me cancer. I think it is the idiosyncrasies they both have. Here are some famous highlights of the week:
Can you not chew so loudly?
Don't put deodorant on. It is bad for you. Try baking soda or vinegar.
Can you lower the brightness of the monitor (at 8PM)?
I know of two ENFjs. One now, one in HS. The HS was very philosophical. I always thought she tried too hard to be mature and 'deep-thinking'. Wanted to go to Oxford and was hung up on this INTj, who was getting it from an ESFj.
The ENFj now is a complete job. Drama queen. She specifically tries to always be the center of attention. Everything has to be theatrical. Don't say pussy or anything in reference to the female genitalia in her presence, else you are in for a 20 to 30 minute rant about sexism and female empowerment.
My best college friends are an ENTj and INxp (males). We all have similar humor and values. I remember that I became friends with the ENTj because he refused to hang out with one of his friends that we bumped into on campus after he committed to hanging out with me. I thought it was friendly and a loyal action. So I realized I was not an ENTJ after my interaction with him. He is a great guy, but sometimes he lacks focus and carrying things through. He is very scattered and overworks himself then craps out. He is much more entrepreneurial and independent. He always thinks of what things are to be. The 'future'. He wants to be his own boss. These things are opposite for me... I do not plan or participate in so many activities as him. Mine is a more general, I do this and see how things go. He always thinks of money schemes and making it big. I never thought of being my own boss or entrepreneurial as realistic or even worth planning for. I just want to study something that will put me in the right direction and wait for the opportunities to present itself. So that is definitely what differentiates between us, he creates and finds the preferred situation per-say, where as I manipulate and take control of the current situation.
He definitely has much more energy then me. He will start anything with a lot of energy but then die out due to overexertion. I think my energy level is more calm, relaxed in the beginning. I save up and evaluate the developing situation or plan. Then at the final moment, I put in complete energy once the project/plan is complete then return to my relaxed state. In summation, his natural state is full-out and then crash, my natural state is trail/moderate, full-out, relax. Our temperament is also different. I am much more aggressive, confrontational and solid overall. He will have his periods of aggression, but generally he is relatively aloof and avoids conflict. I am much more domineering, but he is more independent. I need the opportunity to feel cared for/appreciated and vice-versa. He more-so prefers freedom and exploration. He doesn't really need someone in his life or emotional support per-say. He also is not as grouchy as I am sometimes.
He loves working out, starving himself and putting his body in hardship. The challenge of overcoming things and appearing as strong and powerful. That is what he values. I put value in mental discipline, aggression and social power. So basically more about acting powerful. I do have a negative opinion about guys that I view as significantly physically weak. Often times they are INTjs... haha. I think I feel that because of their physique and lack of 'masculinity', they are not really upholding their 'responsibility'. The ENTj friend in contrast dislikes overweight people because he views it as an over-consumption of resources. I am the opposite and feel sympathetic for their state. Where as, I blame physically weak males for not trying to improve their fitness.
The ENTJ friend is much more messy than me and cares less about his surroundings. For example, he would often sleep on the floor in his dorm or lay on his mattress without sheets, pillows or a blanket. I am a minimalist but I do need the basics... I am much more organized and specific about my surroundings compared to him. Also he is erotically a victim type... definitely not me.
The INxp friend is trustworthy to a fault, but he has no initiative and has very controversial ideologies. For example: he justifies the action of importing illegal ivory because other Asian people will do it regardless. So he may as well...
Next year, I am dorming with an ESTj. It is not optimal, but he was the best option. It definitely exhibits quasi-identical relations. It is not bad, but its not good. Overall, he is a nice guy. Just sometimes our interactions do not sync. Here is one of the things I can think of atm... in general he is a very talkative guy. Sometimes his jokes are not really 'funny', but he laughs at them. If you do not laugh he kind of views it negatively. However, in class his personality completely changes from talkative to serious. He will not respond to anyone that tries to get his attention while the professor is talking. I once asked him what time our class ended and he refused to answer me. I was sitting right next to him and the professor is several feet away. After a few minutes of delay, he finally puts his hand up next to me, indicating 5 minutes. Now this is not a big deal, but stuff like that is sometimes just annoying. If someone asked me a simple question, I just respond. No biggie. Let's see how it goes next year.
The people I get/got along with the best are:
My girlfriend- INFp-Ni
Chemistry Classmate in HS- INTp
Art Classmate in HS- INFp and INxp
One of things I noticed about my girlfriend is her ability to predict stuff in the future. I never really noticed until a few months ago. She accurately guesses movie plots, future speeches and real life situations. She never really voiced them until I prodded her to share her opinion. That's when I realized what Ni was. I don't know how to explain it, but it manifests in which she has a in-born sense of time and patterns. She is never really worried about the future (complete opposite with me). But she also does not value the ability, never discusses or talks about it. Where as, I think I always wanted to 'have' the ability so I could control my life and future. So I put it on display to act as if I had it. But in reality it was artificial.
What they all have in common: passivity and non-judging. They accept my often aggressive, blunt and direct personality. But they recognize I do have good intentions and appreciate my qualities. I often serve as the 'leader', frequently bad mouthing to the INTp or INFp, while defending our 'territory'. Often, I think they find me humorous, encouraging because they often have issues with confidence and somewhat as a 'protector'. We balance each other out. I appreciate them for their loyalty, submissiveness, insights and companionship.
Example of a tonight's conversation with an INFp friend:
*We are talking about one of our high school class mates, extremely stereotypical, flamboyant, proud homosexual
Me: "He is a nice guy, just when he get's in those monologue modes." (He will go on 20 minute declarations about his passion, success and individual qualities. It's basically him jacking off his ego and you swallowing.)
"Yeah but he is passionate"
Me: "Passion as a blowhard"
*Silence
Me: "I mean. I just think that you can't really make those type of speeches when we are only in college. Now if he was a successful big-shot artist, then sure. But he has to make something of himself first."
"Yeah but what he's doing is selling himself."
Me: "He is not selling himself. You sell yourself better than him. He's like one of those cheap ads on those porn websites."
*Laugh "Oh my god"
Me: "When he becomes a Beyonce, call me."
So I am getting tired. I am not sure what kind of reaction this will get from the community. Hopefully positive, I don't add much to online forums. But you know what they say, quality over quantity bitches :yup:
PS: I will also try to redo the questionnaire for documentation purposes. I deleted my original post because I felt that such responses do not reflect upon my current views which have changed much since the creation of this thread. Now it should be "Member Questionnaire- Long, Repetitive, Shut Up Already and Stop Bumping It :<" lol
I’m quoting because I both liked this post and found it constructive. @KanRen, I think you nailed it.
Hi Everyone,
I decided I would like to revitalize this thread with a video questionnaire. I initially was planning to send it to specific Socionics members. However, I decided to share it to the public.
All input and suggestions are appreciated!
https://youtu.be/xJp4D1dPFqY
@Bone Dollar
the only possible T - LII
among F - more for Fi type
you seem as personally soft for me
in gamma - ESI, if you like their values
EII being Fi ego is among possible.
To understand better the type, you may evaluate your IR impressions from delta, gamma and other, - in my examples of bloggers and with people near, with meaningful positive and negative people in your life.
Enneagram types should match with any types, as it's different typologies. It's hard to say more than a predisposition for some E-types to be some Jung's types.
ILI, maybe? Very surface impression, mind you.
@Bone Dollar SLE-Ti is correct for you. The largely Se observations you noted in post #67 concerning various Intertype relations (juxtaposed to SLE) were spot on and well rendered. IME, SLE-Ti's don't often fit the amped up "meathead" stereotype usually associated with other SLE subtypes. Furthermore, you've previously spoken to having a INFp girlfriend and so that would mean that you've been dualized (for years), which adds balance and greater awareness of the unconscious (in the case of SLE, that would be Fe+Ni), which, theoretically, could falsely give one the impression that the functions confined there are more conscious than what they actually are...leading you back here to be retyped when you've already accurately typed yourself. Just a thought.
@Bone Dollar I saw the mention, sup? :)
Well the answer is: ENTJ
Case Closed. "thought it was going to take longer..." But damn time goes by quick. :stroke: