Why is Se so desired?

I don't desire it as in big picture: My life would have been easier if there was very little demand for it. On the other if there is a demand and you can not alter the reality or day dream till you die then... I can honestly say that it starts to bug me when being exposed to it for longer periods of time but sometimes even occasional but strong reference of it is enough (Someone: Look at that Mercedes/ass, Me: pfft, whatever).
Example of imaginary vision colored with Se heavy result:
Imagine that in the end of tunnel you are living in a big house and you are above all else. Those things makes me go ballistic sometimes.

When it comes to MBTI I don't know whether those statistics are based on tests or actually interviewing persons. In a way IXXX categories in MBTI are pretty messed up. J/P (even when not taken into account) seems to be very confusing even among the pros. I have seen thesis that just makes people do the official test and groups them after that and bases evaluation on that. Horrendous practice.

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Originally Posted by luchoislurking

Oh, I see. How would Ti come into account from the relationship point of view? And Ni?

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Fi from EII: I love you. We are good friends
Ni ILI; my husband has a 10am appointment so he has to get moving now otherwise he'll be late.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

Example...Se ...when I was living in Pasadena I had a nice house. It was a half a million dollar home and a big pool. But, I hated the neighbors.

Te..."I fixed it and this looks good on me. I can fly these things and one day I will."

The Se is descriing the properties of the object...the house, big, worth, the size of the pool and the people from a relationship view Fi

The Fe is stating the action and HOW it is or will be received as the method has already been determined.

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Do you mean the Te? figured this is a typo, but just checking.

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Originally Posted by Suz

Do you mean the Te? figured this is a typo, but just checking.

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Yes it was a typo

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

Fi from EII: I love you. We are good friends
Ni ILI; my husband has a 10am appointment so he has to get moving now otherwise he'll be late.

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Oh, I think you must be quoting me in that second part, lol....now that's how I show my hon some love!
And how do I know I love!
It's when something terrible occurs to my love and I have this immense pain inside.

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Originally Posted by Shay

Oh, I think you must be quoting me in that second part, lol....now that's how I show my hon some love!
And how do I know I love!
It's when something terrible occurs to my love and I have this immense pain inside.

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You think that you may be ILI?

Look, you won't catch me objecting that the forums are chock full of ILI/IEI's. It'd be wrong of me! Just think of all the beautiful single ladies. There's gotta be opening...

Hear hear!

/sniff

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

You think that you may be ILI?

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Well you and I know that we are not using the same system, right?

I think I VI'd a bit as ILI when young and the description could fit. Will add a link of a thread about my type from a few months ago, though near all of the photos have now been deleted.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...388-Old-photos

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Originally Posted by Shay

Well you and I know that we are not using the same system, right?

I think I VI'd a bit as ILI when young and the description could fit. Will add a link of a thread about my type from a few months ago, though near all of the photos have now been deleted.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...388-Old-photos

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Yup INTp

Se, in terms of one individual surviving/performing, is very powerful.

Se, in a group setting, is kind of redundant.

Another way of looking at it: Se is the most obvious, or primitive perhaps, manifestation of Freud's 'Libido', though Jung did a real good job in amplifying the concept of Libido to a more factual basis which would include all the 8 Information Elements of Socionics. From women, they want men with Se basically because it shows strength, power, willpower. But oh they also want a smart man, so hey, it looks like there's a majority of women out there looking basically for a Superman, which of course cannot exist and so they become disappointed with men... lol .

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Originally Posted by snap

People don't desire Se, they at times desire the stereotypes you attach to it

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Yeah, the power aspect. The activity aspect of things. The living in the moment. Those can be good at times, but you also need to think a bit.

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Originally Posted by Airman

Another way of looking at it: Se is the most obvious, or primitive perhaps, manifestation of Freud's 'Libido', though Jung did a real good job in amplifying the concept of Libido to a more factual basis which would include all the 8 Information Elements of Socionics. From women, they want men with Se basically because it shows strength, power, willpower. But oh they also want a smart man, so hey, it looks like there's a majority of women out there looking basically for a Superman, which of course cannot exist and so they become disappointed with men... lol .

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Yes, expectations suck. Se is force. Se is power, but as I said, you can be both smart and powerful at the same time. Men like this are hard to come across because they put too much emphasis on one or the other. You know?

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Originally Posted by niffer

Se, in terms of one individual surviving/performing, is very powerful.

Se, in a group setting, is kind of redundant.

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Yes. You gotta hunt to survive. You gotta be psychical. I bet a lot of ancient men were SLEs.

Yes it is. You need more Fe, imo. Fe kills in groups. Fe-Se is the best in a group setting, imo.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

Fi from EII: I love you. We are good friends
Ni ILI; my husband has a 10am appointment so he has to get moving now otherwise he'll be late.

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Yes, I agree. Fi though? Did I not say Ti? :)

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Originally Posted by luchoislurking

Yeah, the power aspect. The activity aspect of things. The living in the moment. Those can be good at times, but you also need to think a bit.



Yes, expectations suck. Se is force. Se is power, but as I said, you can be both smart and powerful at the same time. Men like this are hard to come across because they put too much emphasis on one or the other. You know?



Yes. You gotta hunt to survive. You gotta be psychical. I bet a lot of ancient men were SLEs.

Yes it is. You need more Fe, imo. Fe kills in groups. Fe-Se is the best in a group setting, imo.



Yes, I agree. Fi though? Did I not say Ti? :)

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Oh :/ sorry. Somedays I'm much worse at catching details than on other. Ti...hum let me come up with one. h

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

Oh :/ sorry. Somedays I'm much worse at catching details than on other. Ti...hum let me come up with one. h

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Okay :)

Si is related to pleasure seeking, comfort, hedomism (-excess weight), seeking cover, being homely
Se-poIR is interpreted as being afraid of conflict and confrontation, being passive-aggressive, or plain passive and complaisant (-whiny,fearful)
Se in type model is equated to being aggressive, up-front, able to defend yourself, thirst for power, being powerful, strong body physique (-dominant, assured)

Who would like to identify with an image of a fat-cat lying about on a porch all the time and scurrying for safety from anything that threatens it? Pleasure, hedonism, homeliness, cowardice, powerlessness is not what Si is supposed to be about () but unfortunately this is what it has been distorted in Socionics stereotypes (and I feel dismayed seeing these negative stereotypes repeated in the very current posts made here :( ).

At least in America--and possibly other places with similar ideals, etc.--the go-getter, the conqueror, the fat cat, the avaricious wolf, the one who fights his or her way to the top is sort of inflated. That is to say, they are depicted as what people should strive to be. You see it in commercials; e.g., there's a shaving commercial where a man goes the extra mile by shaving his head in a similar fashion as this higher up who is going to interview for some position in this corporation. Of course, this is also an example of a kiss-ass, but the point is that it makes the guy who is proactive in what he wants seem desirable because HE is the one who will get the high paying job and all that comes along with it, as opposed to the other guys who were more passive in their demeanor.

EDIT (for context): whether stereotype or truth, many people, as evinced in typology forums, believe Se to be will power, drive for dominance, and even at times overall success in attaining goals.

Se makes people feel good quickly and directly. There's really no need to overthink it more than that. Every group can really benefit from a having a Se user in it, imo. And then there are some types that don't really bring any immediate benefit to a group, even though that individual might be really valued on a personal level.

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Originally Posted by yeves

Si is related to pleasure seeking, comfort, hedomism (-excess weight), seeking cover, being homely
Se-poIR is interpreted as being afraid of conflict and confrontation, being passive-aggressive, or plain passive and complaisant (-whiny,fearful)
Se in type model is equated to being aggressive, up-front, able to defend yourself, thirst for power, being powerful, strong body physique (-dominant, assured)

Who would like to identify with an image of a fat-cat lying about on a porch all the time and scurrying for safety from anything that threatens it? Pleasure, hedonism, homeliness, cowardice, powerlessness is not what Si is supposed to be about () but unfortunately this is what it has been distorted in Socionics stereotypes (and I feel dismayed seeing these negative stereotypes repeated in the very current posts made here :( ).

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You're on point here, badly defined stereotypes cause a lot of confusion even for people trying find their own type.

As for the definitions of Se and Se-polr, I've gotten better insight through observing others closely and over a long period of time, than by reading descriptions.

For example, I've been working under an EII boss for about a year now, and I think I understand what Se-polr is about - he just can't make a decision, the prospect of making a decision, however minor, is unpleasant for him and he tries to avoid it, mostly by getting his business partner to give an opinion first.

So by inverting this, I think Se is more about MAKING decisions, being confident in making decisions, rather than "aggression." And apart from this there is just the physicality of Se-users. They are comfortable in their skin, in their actions - this makes people around them comfortable. But if I want to throw an idea around, see where it goes or what the other possibilities are, I would definitely go to my EII boss first.

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Originally Posted by yeves

Si is related to pleasure seeking, comfort, hedomism (-excess weight), seeking cover, being homely
Se-poIR is interpreted as being afraid of conflict and confrontation, being passive-aggressive, or plain passive and complaisant (-whiny,fearful)
Se in type model is equated to being aggressive, up-front, able to defend yourself, thirst for power, being powerful, strong body physique (-dominant, assured)

Who would like to identify with an image of a fat-cat lying about on a porch all the time and scurrying for safety from anything that threatens it? Pleasure, hedonism, homeliness, cowardice, powerlessness is not what Si is supposed to be about () but unfortunately this is what it has been distorted in Socionics stereotypes (and I feel dismayed seeing these negative stereotypes repeated in the very current posts made here :( ).

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It's not how society works. May I change your question: who would want to deal with a person who is constantly aggressive, upfront, has strong thrist for power? Since humans are social animals it's very important to think about a person's own behavior influences his/her desiderability as companion. And that's where, for example, an EII wins (on average) every day over a SLE.

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Originally Posted by maithili

They are comfortable in their skin, in their actions - this makes people around them comfortable.

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Really. I very rarely feel comfortable around Se dominants. They're always harping on your weaknesses (unless you are unnoticeable), trying to show how they're superior to everyone, being kinda loud. Now a Fi dominant type - that's someone that can make everyone being comfortable, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by FDG

It's not how society works. May I change your question: who would want to deal with a person who is constantly aggressive, upfront, has strong thrist for power? Since humans are social animals it's very important to think about a person's own behavior influences his/her desiderability as companion. And that's where, for example, an EII wins (on average) every day over a SLE.

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I agree with this on a general view. However, there are those few times where one is in a group and aggressive and confrontational yet others enjoy that and have little to no qualms about it :confused2:


Maybe I just have some fucked up friends XD

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Originally Posted by maithili

For example, I've been working under an EII boss for about a year now, and I think I understand what Se-polr is about - he just can't make a decision, the prospect of making a decision, however minor, is unpleasant for him and he tries to avoid it, mostly by getting his business partner to give an opinion first.

So by inverting this, I think Se is more about MAKING decisions, being confident in making decisions, rather than "aggression." And apart from this there is just the physicality of Se-users. They are comfortable in their skin, in their actions - this makes people around them comfortable. But if I want to throw an idea around, see where it goes or what the other possibilities are, I would definitely go to my EII boss first.

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Couldn't this be problematic Te?

Difficulty coming to a decision is described for ISFjs : "Prepare for the fact that grocery shopping with her will not be a light matter. This is because DREISERKA orients poorly when it is necessary to select between two or even more objects. Therefore, instead of standing together with her at the counter and listening to her for half-hour, as she goes back and forth and doubts herself, it is better that you make a decision and relieve her of this need." - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...SFj-by-Beskova

ISFjs have strong Se, despite it they have the same trouble with decision making,.
That said, making decisions could be dependent on an extraverted rational estimation. Both your EII boss and an ESI have weak Te--and both linger in doubt when having to decide what is the most rational choice to make.

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Originally Posted by yeves

Couldn't this be problematic Te?

Difficulty coming to a decision is described for ISFjs : "Prepare for the fact that grocery shopping with her will not be a light matter. This is because DREISERKA orients poorly when it is necessary to select between two or even more objects. Therefore, instead of standing together with her at the counter and listening to her for half-hour, as she goes back and forth and doubts herself, it is better that you make a decision and relieve her of this need." - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...SFj-by-Beskova

ISFjs have strong Se, despite it they have the same trouble with decision making,.
That said, making decisions could be dependent on an extraverted rational estimation. Both your EII boss and an ESI have weak Te--and both linger in doubt when having to decide what is the most rational choice to make.

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Interesting point, I agree. An ESI confused at grocery store reminds me of my LSI partner, actually. But I think this is a different kind of decision making compared what goes on at a professional, business space. Making decisions here is unpleasant for my EII boss bc he doesn't want to be responsible for any bad decisions ("When in doubt, do nothing" he likes to say). I still think it's a Se issue in terms of making decisions when others don't want to, and taking responsibility for it.

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Originally Posted by FDG

Really. I very rarely feel comfortable around Se dominants. They're always harping on your weaknesses (unless you are unnoticeable), trying to show how they're superior to everyone, being kinda loud. Now a Fi dominant type - that's someone that can make everyone being comfortable, in my opinion.

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The only Se dominants I know that are like that are a very unbalanced, drug addict SLE and an unbalanced, unemployed SEE. You can't use them as a general yardstick, there are plenty of healthy ones that mostly just "lighten the atmosphere"

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Originally Posted by FDG

It's not how society works. May I change your question: who would want to deal with a person who is constantly aggressive, upfront, has strong thrist for power? Since humans are social animals it's very important to think about a person's own behavior influences his/her desiderability as companion. And that's where, for example, an EII wins (on average) every day over a SLE.

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You don't put your socionics type on your resume, don't announce it to anyone. Nobody does this. Thus the question "who would want to work with my type" is not socially pertinent at the workplace or elsewhere outside of this forum. By large, type is an individual and private matter. Even if everyone announced their types, "who would collaborate with me" is a question that is most compelling in Gamma quadra, not so for Alpha, Beta, and Delta. That is the majority ~75% of society holding to different values and it's not comprehensive to judge "how society works" by your own small part of it.

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Originally Posted by FDG

And that's where, for example, an EII wins (on average) every day over a SLE.

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If I were an EII I would pick an SLE to work with rather than another EII. The SLE would support our work on sensing and logic seeing it from a different end, and if they want power that would not concern me. With another EII, having exact same weaknesses, our project would be lopsided, full of defects and loopholes, and not built well. If you are ENTj then it's clear why you would pick INFj over ESTp, but the "entire society" doesn't work with your criteria of picking the most compliant work partner.

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Originally Posted by maithili

The only Se dominants I know that are like that are a very unbalanced, drug addict SLE and an unbalanced, unemployed SEE. You can't use them as a general yardstick, there are plenty of healthy ones that mostly just "lighten the atmosphere"

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Perhaps we just notice something different, I know pretty "balanced" ones (meaning: they have a stable job, family, friends) who still give off that vibe TO ME. They don't make me feel comfortable.

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Originally Posted by yeves

but the "entire society" doesn't work with your criteria of picking the most compliant work partner.

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The entire society is partially made of people like you and partially made of people like me, almost everyone can find his/her niche, that's what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Taldoria

I agree with this on a general view. However, there are those few times where one is in a group and aggressive and confrontational yet others enjoy that and have little to no qualms about it :confused2:


Maybe I just have some fucked up friends XD

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Sometimes, sure, it's good. Doesn't mean it creates a "comfortable atmosphere" - for me.

The implied connotation of confidence in all endeavors has a lot to do with why others desire a partner to have strong Se.

The emphasis on leadership and taking action is why people desire to be stronger in it themselves.

Neither of those is really true, taking action is partially an aspect of Se but doesn't offer the why which is more important. It's also important to remember that the medium involved in communicating these messages is almost always the internet, it's not hard to understand why a community largely composed of people who spend a lot of time in front of a computer would desire a more action oriented lifestyle or companion.

It's not so much about Se as it typically is people wanting to be less lethargic or more adventurous and thinking that Se types have those qualities.

I personally do not see Se as desirable. I think a lot of people are attracted towards power and will and those both qualities often come with this function. Imho Se is just over reactive function, that can bring up the worst kinds of manipulation and desires to own and lead the environment. I find this both repulsive and fairly short-coming.

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Originally Posted by Fay

I personally do not see Se as desirable. I think a lot of people are attracted towards power and will and those both qualities often come with this function. Imho Se is just over reactive function, that can bring up the worst kinds of manipulation and desires to own and lead the environment.

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How does having the function cause this? And... are you talking about Se as something projected in id....or Se in ego block, or 4d volitional sensing in general?

I understand that a lot of Se egos are douchebags, and can also be unfortunately loud and aggressive going about things. But, I just feel like this thread is regressing into Se groupthink groupfeel hate. It leads everyone else to forget the plenty of others with egos of other functions, who are also douchebags. Then again, this is me being sensitive with Fe hidden agenda.

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Originally Posted by FDG

It's not how society works. May I change your question: who would want to deal with a person who is constantly aggressive, upfront, has strong thrist for power? Since humans are social animals it's very important to think about a person's own behavior influences his/her desiderability as companion. And that's where, for example, an EII wins (on average) every day over a SLE.

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Bold words and bold stance to take for a Se hidden agenda type.

Sorry, I don't mean to say it like that (don't take it personally), but it's just to illustrate the point that it's not so simple. Obviously Se hidden agenda people aren't obsessed with "being wealthy" or power hungry either, in spite of how much the theory or a small handful of IRL anecdotes dictate. Other types can be equally as impulsive and idiotic in their decision making as Se egos, not to mention unempathetic. Have you never met an EII to do something impulsively and destructive to the environment around them based on emotion? There's of course an added element of destructiveness and chaos that Se lead can bring, but to oversimplify entire groups of people for all intents and purposes is inaccurate. Let's try not to fall into the type prejudice hellhole of MBTI again that so many of us have tried to crawl out of through Socionics.

I just thought Se leads you to do crazy things, like taking on the Juggernaut:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...658355-a_2.png

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Originally Posted by FDG

Perhaps we just notice something different, I know pretty "balanced" ones (meaning: they have a stable job, family, friends) who still give off that vibe TO ME. They don't make me feel comfortable.

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You don't like your activity relations?

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Originally Posted by maithili

You don't like your activity relations?

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I´ve never had any long lasting positive relationship with them, no.

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Originally Posted by Fay

I personally do not see Se as desirable. I think a lot of people are attracted towards power and will and those both qualities often come with this function. Imho Se is just over reactive function, that can bring up the worst kinds of manipulation and desires to own and lead the environment. I find this both repulsive and fairly short-coming.

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People like this need a lot of the right kind of guidance. Takes really "with it" people to help out Se guys and girls who for whatever reason just keep giving her, even until later in life, go the right way.

Si/Ne seems to be more valued or perceived as 'normal' in general irl. Like when I think of someone who's normal it's some guy who's chill and looks forward to their next meal or smoking their next bowl or something. Or a skinny hipster who eats chia seeds and has a gluten-free diet. I usually feel out of place.

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Originally Posted by suedehead

Si/Ne seems to be more valued or perceived as 'normal' in general irl. Like when I think of someone who's normal it's some guy who's chill and looks forward to their next meal or smoking their next bowl or something. Or a skinny hipster who eats chia seeds and has a gluten-free diet. I usually feel out of place.

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in what kind of world do you live?

Imagine a world without Se.

http://www.the16types.info/info/infoelems/Se.htm

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive...functions.html

http://personalityjunkie.com/extrave...ed-sensing-si/

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Originally Posted by suedehead

Si/Ne seems to be more valued or perceived as 'normal' in general irl. Like when I think of someone who's normal it's some guy who's chill and looks forward to their next meal or smoking their next bowl or something. Or a skinny hipster who eats chia seeds and has a gluten-free diet. I usually feel out of place.

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Where do you live? :S