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Having se in ego doesn't mean you are a superman, it's not an advantage just a way you see the world. Aggressors think of pursuit, victims think of being pursued
There are certainly advantages to Se ego that do not necessarily include throwing sex partner up against a wall (ouch! :( )
Quote:
Originally Posted by aixelsyd
Naw, its what keeps us alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphin
It's not like you even think of perusing in some kind of conscious, hunter and prey kind of form. You just that want to see them again and can understand at a gut level that you are the one that needs to facilitate that happening. That could look like anywhere from making yourself available to them, to moving the pieces in your life around to make room for their presence, to standing firmly in your desire to be with them, even when they put out some 'trouble'. Romantically and sexually it also looks like an ability to separate yourself from them briefly in order to, I hate to use the word objectify, but perhaps better yet, objectify the situation more then them as a person. The introverted aggressors are a WHOLE other beast then the extroverts as well.
Objectification is necessary.
Also, its far easier in my experience to be some kind of aggressor initially in a bar, pub, night club setting. As well as a more public setting such as a grocery store, campground, and sometimes cafe, then it is to be an aggressor at school. This is because school comes with many more social conventions then some other setting. She may or may not reciprocate your interest, or on the other side, it may complicate hers and yours school life. It might not also be the most appropriate time to explore something with her.
So instead of calling yourself a pussy, you should better yet congratulate yourself on having the inner wisdom to first feel out the situation over the course of time, making sure you are certain that an advance will not jeopardize any factor in your life, large or small. You might also want to feel proud of the fact that you are not some blundering Se base ego, but a more thoughtful, reflective person who is entirely capable and adept at seeing the subtle nuances before making some kind of move romantically. (If in fact striking up some kind of relationship could be considered 'making a move' - so tacky this popular line of thinking).
In regards to ISFj, keep in mind they are a carefree type, meaning experimentation is the main stay of your personality. In other words, you need to try it out before you get good at anything. I can't even remember the amount of times I have faced some sort of rejection before I became immune to them. Those were always hard in the first place because I would rather not take the initiative and in doing so on numerous occasions I put myself out there and received nothing in return except a lesson.
Overall, in my experience I would say just go for it. If it works great, if it doesn't, then at least you don't regret, nor are left wondering "what if?" (ISFj weak spot)
I'm sorry, but not entirely. Objectification has too many negative connotations and doesn't really capture the essence of socionic aggression, at least not for the Se blocked with Fi egos in gamma.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouronis
That wasn't a socionics statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacey
Ah, my bad. So you want to explain it maybe?
It's not like you even think of perusing in some kind of conscious, hunter and prey kind of form. You just that want to see them again and can understand at a gut level that you are the one that needs to facilitate that happening.
not that cynical as in hunter and prey, but the drive to "push them against a wall" should come very naturally with Se ego.
I suggest that the OP should type Ni/Ne ego. I promise I'll try to pretend I see some substance in what he says.
Oh, and you have personal experience with driving someone up the wall? Your knowledge sounds theory based and thus not multi-faceted enough for my liking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
my comment wasn't meant to be "to your liking".
of course I do. And all the Se egos I've been with were "aggressive" like that. But then again the dude is not even 20, right. ...he prolly has very little actual experience in dating&sex, so mby he has his reasons to be shy and retractile. And then again I'm Sx first which adds some nuance, I guess.
Such consistent black-white thinking. Tis sad... Considering your age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
(See see.... Others can utilize your tacky tactics too....!!!)
I'm a total pussy when it comes to like and love.
I may make jokes a lot in order to peak their interest, but if they show little signs of interest... Nurp... I back away and feign oblivious. On the occassions I have pushed someone against a wall.. It's been longterm relationships and I did it as a "joke". Plus I majorly lack coordination.
In terms of persuing vs being persued... I prefer the former. But I do it in a goofy way. I do like the other person to reciprocate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
In terms of pursuing, not persuing ...no, you don't turn me on.
not even when you try to pump up your Se and use the category of age (how ti-mid) in your black-and-white thinking.
maybe if I were American, I would find u hot though. I may have a thing for Mediterranean or Slavic looks.
It would be cool to actually have a conversation about this topic instead of it descending into some kind of look at me I know so much about socionics type war. Maybe, you know, like take ****** at their face value and maybe consider that what they are saying has a little smidgen of merit and that sometimes it is actually quite a junk of time out of the day where they have to sit down and really think about what they want to write and how that writing relates to the truth they are trying to illuminate? Like, ya.
wacey probably mistook the type of conflict (or "war"). It was "I know too much about hypocritical passive aggressive pussies" and I'm hearing the same kind of shit again --- same as last week and the week before. "Tell me I shouldn't kill myself coz I am not Sx, charismatic, strong enough. eeeeetc." (choose your attribute and he'll come asking folks why others have it and he lacks it).
He should actually change his pills or his therapist if what he's already doing doesn't work.
Well, I have taken a liking to him, so I'll just decide for myself how I will talk with him as well as discern the situation. Same privilege as you.
Aggression with ESI is different from the beta ST's, and even the flirtatious SEE. LIE are touchy individuals who require a lot of finesse. A lot of letting them think they are running the show and tons of aquiesing. They are not known as cavalier for nothing. Sometimes the one who gives in is the aggressor. Sometimes the one who decides the "time and place sex is happening" is the aggressor. Or victim? Things get complex in my experience.
And I'm talking in very, very close relationships here, NOT the fly by night friday night fuck and chucks; or the "where is this going-ings?"; or the "why do you make me do crazy things I'll probably regret cause I need to knows?". Those are all different from the keepers. The keepers require compromise.
If you can't agree then go and join the LSIs. hah!
same privilege as me.
just that you're contradicting yourself. you are trying to rationalize his weakness through Socionics. it's not due to LIEs, but some personal failures and self-subversive habits that he always complains and simultaneously throws shit at others to make up for his experiences. this may actually only prolong his situation, but who cares.
I guess its your prerogative to point that all out to him. Must mean he matters to you, or something. Plus, "weakness"? I see no weakness in this guy. Just an average thoughtful young guy, coming into his own, sharing his observances of the world :/
:timeout: ....... :hug:
(I dislike the hug smiley because tis corny.. But for you..Ima press it).
Off topic....one of my posts is missing in this thread.... Did a mod delete it?.... :(
Nvm.... It was moved. Cooollll.
your Fiiiiling-and-relationsheeps radars are fucked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacey
the other one sounds overly-motherly and gay. sounds like you wanna give him a blow job instead.
but I know you don't actually hold a grudge coz I inadvertently corrected your creepy spelling in my previous post instead of telling you I dislike you and find you pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
I was sarcastic in the first bit. In the second I was expressing some sentiment. Wow. You have issues. Call it tough love, others might call it mean hearted. And that's putting your behaviour mildly.
What's wrong Amber, why are you so snarky?
wacey, I don't like you, you don't like me. let's stop here. I understand that you have a thing for suede, but asking why someone is snarky after u admitted on being sarcastic urself is a contradiction in behavior and thinking. not to my liking.
aaah :bunny:
You win Amber, I give up.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...h0eio1_250.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Elina
I heard he is dumb as a "brick" but who cares. :p
Pussies come in all sizes shapes and colors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffJb-CpKmu8Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
@suedehead Early 20s can be a strange time. From my experience there's a pressure that emerges--one begins to feel there is a time limit to get all the big things in life sorted out: career, relationship, life direction...overall destiny. It's my opinion I want to offer that it's good to use that decade to take time to find your way so as to be sure...as opposed to just checking things off one-by-one in order to feel that you are making "any kind" of progress. Typically, the ones who succumb to the pressure before they're ready generally end up with regrets.
You won't "turn yourself on", but you will turn someone else on who seeks what you naturally have. Don't be afraid to get it wrong a few times before you get it right. You can change your sociotype, the ideal partner type you are looking for, your sexual preference. Your strengths and weaknesses will evolve and shift while you discover what works for you, and makes you happy with and over time. You really have much more time than you probably think to figure things out. :)
Regarding the "event" you recalled--it's so very common for all types to react as you did. If I suggested something for a date at 17, and someone put it down, it would be SO natural to back off out of insecurity. It's also possible that the EIE girl was trying to either look cool or more exciting by claiming that movies are boring. If the SLE in the end, was ultimately only a "fuckbuddy", then he didn't really get the whole package anyway.
If you are ILE and/or can't relate or use my thoughts for any constructive purpose, that's ok. But please know my intent is well-meaning.
What's your solution? Why are "most women" important? Who, specifically, is "a girl"? Why see girls/women as a homogenous unit, whose pieces always have more in common with each other than with any given guy/man?Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
Do you think girls/women would be oblivious to your distaste for them? Do you want them as human beings, or do you want their attention for your own personal use? Is there any reason why a bisexual/non-straight girl would be a worse fit for you than a straight girl?Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
Guys with slighter physiques, and less conventional masculinity than you, have done great. Goddess Bunny has an active and rich sexual life, and is now in a great relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
One event that shows that I'm probably not Victim-Aggresdor is this event that happened when I was 17. I was talking to an EIE girl and told her to go to the movies with me and she said "the movies are boring. Lol.' and I froze up like a pussy. A male aggressor would've gotten past that and aggressively charmed her. She thought I was cute, but I was too androgynous for her, and I spent the rest of senior year hating the guts of her SLE fuckbuddy.
most SLEs I know are very daring and caveman-like, but totally boring and bland outside the bedroom. Not saying suede is sophistication incarnated, but he found the right type to compare himself to.
Female SLEs can be pretty interesting though. Right now I'm working with one on an e-book on Why Older Men Hit on Younger Women. I'm late and she's pretty lovely when she's trying to apply pressure to make me send her the stuff soon. Apparently she'll look for another writer and she'll contact me if she doesn't find a better one.
Chill, maybe? Life is not about being laid.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
dude, you're Se leading, Fi creative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider
I prefer Jeezy's demeanor to Chris' Browns. He is laid back, optimistic and has passion. These are things people can work on.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYLjuFWzSBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsnVNbVD-TY
I keep wanting to type him ILI.
Hah, that sucks. You are hanging out with the wrong girls.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
Quote:
...most women aren't attracted to my traits. I'm closed-off, non-transparent and I'm not a cheesing fratboy like floyd fucking mayweather. I'd even say I'm creepy, and I have no interest in changing my basic demeanor. A girl isn't going to feel comfortable around me and that's a dealbreaker.
You're right--a girl isn't going to feel comfortable around you AS YOU ARE NOW...in this phase you're stuck in. You are in an unsuccessful and self-perpetuating cycle, and it isn't working. You have generalized (erroneously--in my opinion) what you think women want, and then because that disappoints you, you are making them the enemy and refusing to attempt to give it to them. Why would you only want that kind of girl who WANTS the frat boy?? You are trying to emulate their "apparent" rejection of you, by bitterly doing the same thing back to them...exactly who is winning here? This is a phase--you can and you will figure it out. Ironically, the early 20s are a "perfect storm" where maturity and immaturity collide. Where idealism, loss of innocence, increasing responsibility and a desire to quickly find and establish one's place in the world combine and go haywire.
Try to remain as authentic and true to yourself during what is temporarily a crappy time for you. Resist things that try to turn you into something you know you're not, or else don't want to be. If EIE girl says "movies are boring", then say how you really feel in response: "if it's a good movie, I disagree that they're boring", or "me too but I was hoping we could do something together"--then you will get a true response instead of walking away without the information that will allow you to either proceed with her or move on. Speaking of movies...I'm very partial to Perks of Being a Wallflower, since I lived in Pittsburgh for 5 years. It has such a good message, and it applies to what you are going through.
Don't rule out other kinds of girls! Please believe that many don't want a frat boy--and in your case it could just be the timing, because most females in their late 20s want anything but! Maybe the EIE "event" was a fail because SHE's insecure, superficial, or image conscious and will only date frat boys. Maybe because a fellow Beta was a better match for her. Maybe you DO have your Socionics type incorrectly identified. Or maybe you're ESI and your weak Ni can't see the end of a very short frat phase of life that has a 4-year shelf life.
Maybe through time and when you work through some of this shit that's causing you distress and resentment, you will find you can connect better with more (female) people. We're not all going to end up with supermodel gods/goddesses as partners. And once you find your One, you won't WANT them to be. :) Look at Hollywood in order to see that beauty or "frat appeal" is not co-related to life and relationship happiness. Try to accept you are going through a difficult phase, cut yourself some slack. Many people later look back on their "younger selves" with regrets that they didn't realize they were beautiful and wonderful and just hadn't known it.
Just do your best so you can live without regrets ;)
Dude, don't let other people have that much power over you (especially women, since their judgments strike deeper -- it's an impulse we're not socialized out of). You're fighting your own mind when you do all the work of projecting cynicism onto yourself.
Fallback and isolate yourself for a period, develop a creative talent, something substantial to fall back on to strengthen your self-image.
^ yeah basically.
i was walking down the street telling myself the exact same stuff just yesterday, only switch "women" for "men." (men are generally less selective initially, but it can be equally shitty from the other side)
the key is to really, truly feel that when you consistently let your self-esteem be so tied to projections of other people's neg perceptions of you, it's giving everyone else crazy amounts of unwarranted power. which isn't to say there isn't still the real, day to day responses of needing to be appreciated, to be desirable, etc, which is human and keeps ppl from becoming sociopaths. but there's a separate core that can ride those up and down waves.
(sry i'm self-therapizing a bit lol)
p.s. as far as i can tell, attractive men get rejected for sex and stuff all the time. also women can generally tell if all you feel for them is lust, some will go for it and others won't. a lot of it is the structures of desire and power dynamics between men and women, a lot of it is circumstantial.
edit: take my statements w/ a grain of salt actually, i'm still mostly a naive introverted shut-in
The first several times I had sex where with ugos. You have to crawl through the mud to get to the beach. You don't just get the hot chicks right off the bat if you are a virgin. Lower your standards and enjoy yourself a bit more for christ sakes. There are plenty of great second stringers out there! Is it them who is superficial, or is it you? Or, is it just plain old fear? Cause, that shit is universally felt by everyone alive, hot or not.
So, what is with all the hangups? Or better yet, what IS the hangup?
oh hey, welcome to E4-dom.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
Not necessarily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio
ofc not, that's surely positive outlook
Positive Outlook sp/so (syn-flow) thread:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rst-Old-people
Guess on which emotion the OP is fixated. Looks like indolence and sloth huh.
I am aware that he's all envy, there's just many things off for him being 4w3. 9 is what he self-types, not my impression of him.
suede cuts too deep a vein in his posts for a 9. his energy has a more bleeding quality to it than 9w1s do.
9s, for all their introspection, don't go beyond the point of comfort....their introspection is more numbed out and self-insulated. like a big, pillowy wall.
not as fleshy...that's where sloth mainly shows up. and yeah, he's too cold and realistic in his self-assessments/assessments for a positive reframer.
A sorta "take no mercy on myself"....(starfall does a similar thing when she has introspected on the board).
I agree. His posts and realistic/cynical views of society and its expectations remind me of Starfall's too (also the advice she gave him how to approach his problems was very adaptive, rational and overall 3-ish). Don't know where to draw the line between 3 and 4 with Suede though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kill4Me
I understand... it's a long walk, it seems like it gets better with age. Did you think about following a kind of confidence training or something of a sort? Maybe read books about gaining more power. Or find an interest/passion and become good at it, this can help to build your charisma as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
its a close one to draw between 3w4 and 4w3....Quote:
Originally Posted by darya
the difference ime is 4w3s are comfortable seeing themselves as the inferior, un-charismatic, low testerone, beta male.
"there's something wrong with me" is more like a point of pride....and they relish more in their self-proclaimed defects.
the more sx the 4 has the more they intensify that persona. with Suede, there's more shame and discomfort over it...he's not relishing. it's more like lament.
If an SEE wants to be captured they can play any role. They can play the morally upright person, they can play the role of a good worker witb good ethics, they can play the role of the self contained and outright model mate especially to an LSE who dictates behavior and watches for them. What they can't play is doing it indefinitely. The playing itself can be aggressive move putting the competion out of the game by their need to be the most visible role. It hurts people like me who move despite external cues expressing my values and living my values even when the delivery goes without notice of how it will be received by others. It's all well...there's a saying "a man who gives you up is worth not having." p
People are too fucked up these days to form relationships. It's just a fact, accept it and move on. The relationships that do form are empty, based on lies and ultimately fall apart, they're not even worth being jealous over or raging about. Literally forget about it.
ignore girls like that and go more for the moralistic motherly types that will give non alpha male black drug dealers more of a chance.
No sense in getting yourself worked up because most people are common basic bitches only driven by their most basest of impulses.
observe how women behave. Though I believe all women want the asshole, the more motherly type will at least give the nerd a fighting chance. If the girl is feminine but at least can do physical chores herself pretty well you have more of a chance. Because she isn't so heteronormative.
But if it's like some lazy IEI girl who is hot but just passively stands there like some dumbfuck while the SLE bully throat fucks her- YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. Just move on. There is no sense hating these people. There just isn't.
my very existance is a fact that kind-hearted str8 nerdy guys make it. Though I think women have kids with bisexual men in order to create gay men to make clothes for them, while they have sex with the hot asshole for their own personal amusement. It's all a grand manipulative scheme. Those women. What are we gonna do with them? ;) don't let it get u down bro.
here is a little song I wrote:
Look at the heteros shoot basketball and play
They are so boring, common drab and gray
So many gay men hate themselves but guess what-
I'm glad to be gay
Look at the heteros spit and shout
What this time, are they fighting about?
I don't care, I'm queer
I'm glad to be gay
Heteros are bullies and dumb
condescending, shitty and numb
Even if they aren't like k0rp
They just condescendingly give you advice
And make you d0rp
When it's not asked for, and they do it very badly
Unlike Sassy Gay Friend
I'm sooo glad to be gay!
Go to your death camps straights
You deserve it- I'll lock the gates
I don't have to be 'equal' to you
Equal would mean that I get to be as shitty to you
As you are to gays all those years!
So fuck being nice to straights
Stand up to them and make them shake
It's time for the gay movement to actually quake
We are too nice and passive and get some balls fags
For Heaven's Sake
I'm soooo glad to be gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
/bows
^ really just reinforces my longtime theory that you are E1 (disintegrated to E4)
anyway it can help to remember your standards are arbitrary lol
ahahahaha!!Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
umm.. yeah. : (
guess I'm supposed to be frowning, right.
ahah, not a lot I guess. I just laughed out loud at that part of the quote.
And then after I wrote that I was I was laughing, I thought I shouldn't be since everyn was being so srs.
neway, guess I'm supposed to be encouraging you.
So:
Attachment 5511
Attachment 5512
You'll make it, dude! : ) (or whatev?)
Positivist rant/Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
There's a lot of good in good relationships...not being alone, companionship, doing things together, better sex, etc... and SLE are generally caring mates
The Se part of SLE gets to my feelings a lot and makes me sad. It doesn't create an atmosphere of trust and love for me. For example yesterday I was in emense pain and I asked for narcotic pain killers jokingly and this sle friend said "boh if that doesn't make you sound like a junkie" that was not the response I want that would make me feel good. What I'm looking for is care. something like "did you take anything for that?" If I'm not proactive then it's okay to say "if you're not willing to do anything about it then don't complain" but Se just points out properties and makes oddball and uncomfortable determinations that are directed at the person nearby.
Dude, ur English is killing me.
on topic: Se ego tends to despise forms of weakness in another and in Beta it can take the form of clearly expressing that through overt jokes and pushing the person around if they're "caught in the act".
Stop looking for weaknesses :P I'm typing on a phone. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
I will never understand this way of thinking. It's so obviously not in touch with reality. Just fyi, that guy you posted pics of was never my type.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
Just wanted to write exactly this. Suede please stop hallucinating about your physical shortcomings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
@suedehead visually you're hot, the thing that's not hot is that you keep complaining about your looks, when in fact you're way above average. It sounds like a supermodel saying "Oh, no... You should see me without make up. I'm a fricking monster." as an answer to a compliment. It sounds like a way of fishing for more compliments. It gets old.
You don't want to be a dumb jock, then don't. Simple. Hot girls don't only date jocks. And if you meet only such combos - then maybe you just haven't yet met enough people.
I don't think he's doing that. I think there's some sort of body dysmorphia in play. It's like being anorexic and everyone telling you you look like a twig, but when you look in the mirror you see a hippopotamus.Quote:
Originally Posted by aisa
What I was aiming at is that there is no physical problem. I agree that it's about self-perception.Quote:
Originally Posted by darya
Would you be if happy if you'd find a girl to be in love with and she'd return the favour : )? Or would anything but playing the field and being good at it leave you unhappy?Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
I don't think you don't try. I'm just trying to figure out what would be the solution and what exactly would make you happier.
Oh
I simply don't believe you on that. Unless you live in some small village where there's only two girls total who are hanging out with a boyfriend.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
The reality is that there's a lot more types of guys who have girlfriends.
Stop crying about your fat, start a proper training plan and diet and understand it takes time.Quote:
I'm tired of seeing the same fucking shit whenever I go to the gym and I wish I could strangle one of them. I can't get the body I want quickly enough, my face and gaze are plain-looking, I think I look effeminate or pathetic to women. I'm only 5 fucking 11. I carry fat on my lower body like a female. I'm fucked.
Also, this isn't a prerequisite to getting a girl.
Where's the pics, I'm curious now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
trying to meet people in bars isn't easy.
i think it's probably in the way you act. some guys really do act pathetic to women, especially in bars. maybe you should just observe for a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead
most of the more successful guys make it look effortless. but it's more that they know how it works.
are you sure you're not a victim.Quote:
Originally Posted by suedehead