Ok You Know Socionics, Now How Do You Make Your Personal Life Amazing With It?

Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.

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Originally Posted by RedMarquee

Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.

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Unfortunately, I can't really help, but I'd love some sort of reply on this.

think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

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Originally Posted by krieger

think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

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wait -- isn't the whole theory about information processing i.e. you can't fake being a type -- you are always your type just expressing different aspects of it

Unlearn it.

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Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World

Unlearn it.

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/fa2343211...aydjo2_500.gif


I was going to say, "now forget everything and go live your life" ;)


http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/up...ouDontKnow.gif

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Originally Posted by krieger

this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

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:yup:

@Limitless just say no, to substances. :D

Edit: I know, I know, I deserve one of these:

http://data2.whicdn.com/images/45470260/superthumb.jpg

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Originally Posted by krieger

think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

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I don't think perceptual types can do this well as they perceive thinga situationally. To make a protocall and program like you suggests is only available to conceptual types

OP the best way to self improve is to be around many many duals because chances might be that some won't be nice or normal but you will start to feel yourself more and the more you begin to see the parts of you that are wanted admired and appreciated the better understanding you obtain about who you are and what that base function wants to contribute. All other functions fort of take on a lessor role and you begin to feel yourself, calm, and normal....calm in my case :p

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Originally Posted by RedMarquee

Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.

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“I know I make too many assumptions. I know I need to stop thinking the worst every time I don't understand something. I'm really, truly sorry....”

I don't know of such an article in socionics. It basically shows you your strengths and weakness and can point to the strengths and weaknesses in others. That is if you type yourself and others "correctly" and there's the rub. Theoretically it should have some guidelines on how to move past communication problems instead of locking people into intertype relationships. I think that is the biggest problem I have with it.

BUT, I find it useful in understanding my functions. How I can exercise and enhance my strong points and not let my weaknesses define who I am. I actually like reading about my weaker functions because it makes me realize that I have always been using them in creative ways, to compensate for my perceived flaws, but not to their full potential. Maybe I am saying the same thing, different words, as @krieger. :shrug:

I find life flows smoother when I am being true to myself and doing me naturally. That way I draw the people into my life that help me reach higher levels of understanding. They might not be duals but they are just as important on my path of self knowledge. I do not always draw the "best" people to myself but they are perfect for where I am at emotionally and spiritually at any given point in time. I can look at my life as a whole and see all the patterns light up like stars in the sky with intersecting lines. It all makes sense to me but to others may look like my life has been nothing but pure chaos. I am pretty content with where I am now. I do not plan on letting socioncs guide or limit my future actions and interactions. It is just another piece in a complex puzzle called life.

Don't be afraid of making "mistakes" use them as learning experiences. I repeat my mistakes quite often. Sometimes because they are just fun and other times because I block my intuition and try to change things I cannot change in other people. I keep falling but I get back up again. It is when I am blocking my "knowing" of an outcome that I have had the greatest epiphanies blow my mind. It is like a pressure release and I can finally stop fighting the current and let it guide me. If all else fails, I go to therapy. I am my own ecosystem and the environment is like a projection of my inner world.

As Bashar would say, "Follow your bliss." :zen:

*end zen moment*

Read this:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ENTp-ISFp-ESFj

Socionics has helped me to understand people, which I needed help with.

Regarding opposite-quadra childhoods, my family is half Delta and 1/3 Alpha, with one Beta. I typed them when the Beta was 9, so he's known his socionical position for seven years. I don't know whether that's done any good, besides enabling him to brag that Betas are better than Deltas.

Understanding people is one thing but changing who you are and dealing with psychological issues is another thing. Personality type and understanding of information metabolism does let you sort of see the range of things you might appreciate and have a easy time grasping, but the hard things which we are naturally more resistant against remaining important areas of development.

In a way making your personal life "great" is really hard to define, is being guarded and antisocial really that bad for some people, is being confused about one's self worth really abnormal. And at what point does it become really debilitating.

Different individuals can apply this topic in different ways, just as there are many types there will be many approaches to applying this understanding.

As far as your upbringing, it's quite common for individuals to grow in a environment that may be against their information preference, along with other issues such as cultural identity, sexuality and worldview disagreement. This does create a sense of alienation and confusion in individuals and there are many therapeutic options for this outside of socionics and in a way those therapy options may be more effective as those options can be task focused and more practical.

Socionics does give you some capabilities in understanding others, and even predicting whether the interaction will be good or poor, but it's more weather prediction vs detailed determinism.

If you try and navigate social situations with systems theory, you're just gonna come off as autistic.

Just go out and talk to people.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

Theoretically it should have some guidelines on how to move past communication problems instead of locking people into intertype relationships. I think that is the biggest problem I have with it.

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VS

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Originally Posted by Aylen

I find life flows smoother when I am being true to myself and doing me naturally. That way I draw the people into my life that help me reach higher levels of understanding. They might not be duals but they are just as important on my path of self knowledge.

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Why is the former a problem if you do the latter?

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Originally Posted by Myst

VS


Why is the former a problem if you do the latter?

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The theory as a whole could be developed to help others who are looking for ways to to help them communicate better. It really isn't a "problem", just a word choice so not meant to be taken too literally, but that is what I find less appealing. It feels incomplete in some way. I mean look at how many threads are people asking advice on how to deal with people...

I won't let a personality theory dictate my interactions. I have my own stuff going on and my own ways of dealing with people.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

The theory as a whole could be developed to help others who are looking for ways to to help them communicate better. It really isn't a "problem", just a word choice so not meant to be taken too literally, but that is what I find less appealing. It feels incomplete in some way. I mean look at how many threads are people asking advice on how to deal with people...

I won't let a personality theory dictate my interactions. I have my own stuff going on and my own ways of dealing with people.

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What I meant was that if the theory works it means you are already locked in your intertype relations because you are behaving as yourself :p

But yeah, that would be really stupid if anyone tried to use socionics for determining interactions.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

The theory as a whole could be developed to help others who are looking for ways to to help them communicate better. It really isn't a "problem", just a word choice so not meant to be taken too literally, but that is what I find less appealing. It feels incomplete in some way. I mean look at how many threads are people asking advice on how to deal with people...

I won't let a personality theory dictate my interactions. I have my own stuff going on and my own ways of dealing with people.

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well, intertype can explain how and why people don't get along as it would also explain why you and i don't. the tool doesn't have to be used to help us get along

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

well, intertype can explain how and why people don't get along as it would also explain why you and i don't. the tool doesn't have to be used to help us get along

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Just because I have called you out on stuff that didn't make sense to me doesn't mean I couldn't get along with you, or that I would dislike you, irl. I get along with my EII sister (we used to fight as kids but lots of kids fight) even though our world views are different. I also get along with other EII pretty well, one one one. I don't have to agree with them or coddle them just to get along. I have preferences when it comes to close friends though. I tend to stick with beta and gamma friends because it is more comfortable for me.

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Quasi-identity is an intertype relation between two people from opposing quadras who have similar, but not identical functions, and no suggestive influence over the other. Partners typically have a lot to say about the same kinds of topics (as do, typically, any members of a single club), and their conversations gravitate to these common spheres of interest, but they take entirely different approaches to every subject. They both take note of the same phenomena, but describe and analyze them in completely different terms that the other finds interesting, but completely unsatisfying. This is because the language and approach of one partner's leading function corresponds to the strong, but undervalued demonstrative function of the other. Each partner tends to be impressed with the other's skillful use of his leading function, which they perceive more as a "performance" (due to their own attitudes toward their demonstrative function) than a sincere and honest expression.
In closer interaction, partners' instincts are to want to correct the other person's approach and redefine the issues in completely different language. This leads to a feeling of being under-appreciated by the other. Partners are easily drawn into quite personal conversations because of the sense that the other person can relate to them, but this psychological intimacy can easily disappear without a trace when aggravation about something the other person does finally boils over and partners allow themselves to express dissatisfaction with the other. This can lead to disappointment and a feeling of betrayal of trust or lack of loyalty when partners suddenly don't want to be around each other or maintain the relationship anymore because it drains them.
While generally sympathetic towards each other and sharing many of the same weaknesses, quasi-identicals are almost unable to offer meaningful assistance on a personal level, and quickly become annoyed with each other's expectations, if any. Furthermore, the solutions to their emotional or personal problems are always radically different. For instance, an EIE must "get himself together" and stop being idle or hesitant, while an IEE needs a change of pace and some new diversion. If each tries to implement the other's recipe, nothing comes of it.

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But thank you for illustrating what I mean when I say that people get hung up on intertype relations. I am not going to let a description dictate my life like that. Socionics helps me understand myself better and sometimes it helps me see where I have problems in making myself understood to others. If I think a person is friend material or whatever, I won't let socionics doom it from the start. Just my perspective. Not claiming a universal truth.

Edit: FTR, as much as I am into astrology and numerology I would not let it stop me from pursuing relationships with people I like. I think it all comes down to stuff we enjoy doing and talking about and whether there is chemistry for friendship or other.

If you adopt a mentality of confirmation bias, Socionics is wonderful no matter how you apply it.

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Ok You Know Socionics, Now How Do You Make Your Personal Life Amazing With It?

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Take 1 pint Socionics, mix with 100g corn starch, 50g sugar, 20g salt, 400g flour, and 1 egg. Whisk together with water to build ribbons until very thick. Coat on life and fry until golden brown.

*thumbs up*

"See how simple that was, and you can do it yourself at home to!"

Socionics is not something I stick with as a firm belief system for how people actually are. By that, I mean divided into these different types, groups, and quadras. Everybody is different no matter what type they are pegged as. It's all based off a manner of opinion in the end looking at it. The facts are there for how the person correlates with the type and quadra description, but it does not ultimately define who they are.
Don't get me wrong. I love reading more and more about Socionics everyday! I always feel relieved knowing there's something written that describes even an ounce of how I am clear and to the point that would've otherwise taken forever for me to realize. Self-discovery is one of the biggest advantages this system has especially when diving into values and weaknesses. Another good way of making Socionics work in your favor is by examining how you are with another person.
The intertype relations is one of the greatest eye-openers that comes with learning this system. If you read the workings of the various intertype relations, things start to make more sense the more you find yourself interacting with someone, whether they be your dual, conflictor, mirage, etc. It doesn't give you an advantage over the other person, of course, but you gain a more convenient way of understanding what others value and how they use it with you and others around them! You can use Socionics to tell yourself that if you simply be yourself that there will be people who appreciate it and even need it. Socionics also tells you that there are people you will and won't get along with, and that's okay. From those people, you will have learned what's important and what's not. Now that you know about this system, gather all the experience you have and use it to find the right people for you.

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Originally Posted by ryoka14

wait -- isn't the whole theory about information processing i.e. you can't fake being a type -- you are always your type just expressing different aspects of it

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Your type is a product of the iMs youve used, with the ego being used the most, as you learn them younger. Fake it until you make it still works In theory. Use other elements, get better at it.

Id imagine that anybody with a bit of specialized insight into humanity could focus it into some form of wily veteran cunning.

It helps me speak in terms someone else can understand.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

Your type is a product of the iMs youve used, with the ego being used the most, as you learn them younger. Fake it until you make it still works In theory. Use other elements, get better at it.

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now that sounds like a lot of waste of time and mental energy, trying to force a thing like that. in other words, I don't see it as practically possible much

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Originally Posted by Myst

now that sounds like a lot of waste of time and mental energy, trying to force a thing like that. in other words, I don't see it as practically possible much

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Well yeah, its not practical really. Its not something done to accomplish an end, it's a habit in life that reaps rewards if you can stick with it. It's actively pushing yourself to be better throughout your life.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

Well yeah, its not practical really. Its not something done to accomplish an end, it's a habit in life that reaps rewards if you can stick with it. It's actively pushing yourself to be better throughout your life.

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The -rhetorical- question is, does it actually make you better off?

Considering brain plasticity does decrease after the early years, I'm not convinced you can make e.g. a one-dimensional function into a three-dimensional one.

And even if you succeed, how do you keep that in sync with the other already strong functions?

This vision of an insanely well balanced superbrain is... well. A vision at this point, no more :)

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Originally Posted by RedMarquee

Is there an article on self help on bringing out your true self and improving yourself and aligning yourself with your type more? I grew up in a conflicting quadra home, where my polr was almost constantly berated and my HA ignored. This caused some warping in my type and lead to some psychological stresses even after removing myself from that environment. Made me all guarded, antisocial, and confused about the worth of my existence.

So yeah is there an article on opening yourself up, pushing away percieved insecurities with your PoLR and letting your HA be freer without feeling awkward and weird and like nobody will like you? Duals are in short supply for me at the moment, So it would be a solo journey, perhaps one that will start attracting duals in even more so in an exponential growth kinda way.

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First figure out what exactly you are linking to concepts like "PoLR" and "HA". Figure out your unconscious issues that are related to your conceptualizing in this way. One thing I can guarantee to you, all this will go way beyond the theoretical framework of Socionics. Or just go to a psychologist if you don't feel up to this task yourself.

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Originally Posted by Myst

The -rhetorical- question is, does it actually make you better off?

Considering brain plasticity does decrease after the early years, I'm not convinced you can make e.g. a one-dimensional function into a three-dimensional one.

And even if you succeed, how do you keep that in sync with the other already strong functions?

This vision of an insanely well balanced superbrain is... well. A vision at this point, no more :)

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I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.

Socionics helps with:

a realising you can't do everything equally well (in a very broad sense)
b realise others can't do everything equally well (again)
c realise you'll always dislike some people and be disliked by some people

those are the uses I got out of it. As for getting rid of insecurities and other weak spots: I advice professional counceling. Other than that if you want to tackle things on your own, take the behavioural approach. Identify your problems and find ways to get over them. I'm not sure socionics is on a practical enough level to actually help you yet.

Also, avoid people that make you feel bad, socionics intertype relation be damned, just hang with nice people, only compromise this if something like work or family forces you to hang with people who make you miserable or just tired, but even then, there's borders where even family or work obligations should be damned and you just cut someone out.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.

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I totally agree.
We can choose to not do something simply because we aren't any good at it, in which case we may be limiting ourselves; or we can try new things, push past the initial uncomfortableness that comes from making mistakes, forming different habits, and thereby expand our world, even if just a little bit.



Also, for the OP, it's not so much about trying to improve an element, as it is doing something you want to do, but having to learn how to process unfamiliar types of information relative to that project/goal you want to achieve.

For example, in my pursuit of developing a permaculture garden, I am having to learn how to think in terms of dynamic systems and interrelationships between plants with other plants, and with resources. I'm a static type, this kind of thinking is difficult, but I keep slogging through, step by step improving my understandings and therefore my ability to think this way. (I still have a long ways to go though, but am confident i will eventually get a permaculture garden set up.)

One of my other problems in this is that I don't pay enough attention to what plants look like. I look out on my garden, and other than when it's fruiting, or the lettuce in my deck pots, most of it is just a sea of green. So I'm also learning how to identify plants, and one of the best ways of doing that is to sketch them. It slows the brain down enough to actually observe and think about what I'm looking at, with less of risk of jumping around and assuming I got it because I read a word. Part of me fights against this type of observing and analyzing the physical parts of the plants, and I currently lack eye hand coordination enough to draw, but all of this will develop the more I practice.

In time, as I develop a knowledge base and an understanding of my particular garden, it will help me maybe understand some related things outside of my garden. And if I constantly talk about the things I learn/know, and show off the garden journal with its (improved) sketches and diagrams, some person who doesn't know me will jump to the conclusion that i must be a S-dynamic type, or an S-logic type. I wouldn't be, those particular skills/understandings would be very limited to one area, rather than generalized throughout my life and other contexts I'm in.

The thing is, even though I am and will be improving my ability to process other information elements, I'm still being guided through it all by my NeFi-ness.

i'm personally a bigger proponent of the enneagram in terms of "living a more fulfilling life" :)

that shit will help you out w/ your own neuroses

socionics seemed more helpful in terms of teaching me what my own strengths are, what areas I can develop (weak Ne)

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Originally Posted by Pookie

I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.

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I raised my IQ scores by ten points in a relatively short period of time by refusing to be limited by what another person said to me. hmmph! I am a bit competitive so once I learned what they were looking for I practiced until I could answer more of the questions with ease. I was already above average but I was not content with that at the time. I have been professionally tested in a clinical setting.

I have also mentioned an ILI, I knew, who was so low on EQ it was hard to imagine how he was able to get along with others at all but he raised his EQ and then it was close to the same level as mine. He did it by deciding it was something important for him to learn. His IQ was already very high. He became a more compassionate person in the process. He also had perfectionist tendencies so wanted to be perfectly balanced in mind, body and spirit. I have no doubt that he could have achieved if he had more time. I do believe we can exercise our functions and I watch enough of brain games and superhumans to see that some people may have a superbrain. Fascinating really.

Intelligence Is Overrated: What You Really Need To Succeed


Albert Einstein’s was estimated at 160, Madonna’s is 140, and John F. Kennedy’s was only 119, but as it turns out, your IQ score pales in comparison with your EQ, MQ, and BQ scores when it comes to predicting your success and professional achievement.
IQ tests are used as an indicator of logical reasoning ability and technical intelligence. A high IQ is often a prerequisite for rising to the top ranks of business today. It is necessary, but it is not adequate to predict executive competence and corporate success. By itself, a high IQ does not guarantee that you will stand out and rise above everyone else.

Research carried out by the Carnegie Institute of Technology shows that 85 percent of your financial success is due to skills in “human engineering,” your personality and ability to communicate, negotiate, and lead. Shockingly, only 15 percent is due to technical knowledge. Additionally, Nobel Prize winning Israeli-American psychologist, Daniel Kahneman, found that people would rather do business with a person they like and trust rather than someone they don’t, even if the likeable person is offering a lower quality product or service at a higher price.

With this in mind, instead of exclusively focusing on your conventional intelligence quotient, you should make an investment in strengthening your EQ (Emotional Intelligence), MQ (Moral Intelligence), and BQ (Body Intelligence). These concepts may be elusive and difficult to measure, but their significance is far greater than IQ.

Emotional Intelligence
EQ is the most well known of the three, and in brief it is about: being aware of your own feelings and those of others, regulating these feelings in yourself and others, using emotions that are appropriate to the situation, self-motivation, and building relationships.

Top Tip for Improvement: First, become aware of your inner dialogue. It helps to keep a journal of what thoughts fill your mind during the day. Stress can be a huge killer of emotional intelligence, so you also need to develop healthy coping techniques that can effectively and quickly reduce stress in a volatile situation.

Moral Intelligence
MQ directly follows EQ as it deals with your integrity, responsibility, sympathy, and forgiveness. The way you treat yourself is the way other people will treat you. Keeping commitments, maintaining your integrity, and being honest are crucial to moral intelligence.
Top Tip for Improvement: Make fewer excuses and take responsibility for your actions. Avoid little white lies. Show sympathy and communicate respect to others. Practice acceptance and show tolerance of other people’s shortcomings. Forgiveness is not just about how we relate to others; it’s also how you relate to and feel about yourself.

Body Intelligence
Lastly, there is your BQ, or body intelligence, which reflects what you know about your body, how you feel about it, and take care of it. Your body is constantly telling you things; are you listening to the signals or ignoring them? Are you eating energy-giving or energy-draining foods on a daily basis? Are you getting enough rest? Do you exercise and take care of your body? It may seem like these matters are unrelated to business performance, but your body intelligence absolutely affects your work because it largely determines your feelings, thoughts, self-confidence, state of mind, and energy level.

Top Tip For Improvement: At least once a day, listen to the messages your body is sending you about your health. Actively monitor these signals instead of going on autopilot. Good nutrition, regular exercise, and adequate rest are all key aspects of having a high BQ. Monitoring your weight, practicing moderation with alcohol, and making sure you have down time can dramatically benefit the functioning of your brain and the way you perform at work.

What You Really Need To Succeed
It doesn’t matter if you did not receive the best academic training from a top university. A person with less education who has fully developed their EQ, MQ, and BQ can be far more successful than a person with an impressive education who falls short in these other categories.
Yes, it is certainly good to be an intelligent, rational thinker and have a high IQ; this is an important asset. But you must realize that it is not enough. Your IQ will help you personally, but EQ, MQ, and BQ will benefit everyone around you as well. If you can master the complexities of these unique and often under-rated forms of intelligence, research tells us you will achieve greater success and be regarded as more professionally competent and capable.

Also this: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...oel-schneider/

Edit: I usually hate talking about IQ because it reminds me of some very pretentious people I know but it seemed relevant to this post.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

I don't know what keeping that in sync means. The more mentally pliable you are, the better suited you are at not letting life crush you.

People get better at using their functions/elements in life as it is, it's just pushing yourself to engage in what you're uncomfortable with helps speed up that improvement.

I'm not talking superbrain here, just knowledge of your own limitations and an attitude to surpass them.

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OK but I think these things should be done for specific goals, what's the point of wasting time trying to overcome every limitation you have and in the process achieve nothing really?

But yes, I agree that just because something is uncomfortable, it shouldn't stand in your way :p

Mental pliability... explain this concept of yours in more details please.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

I raised my IQ scores by ten points in a relatively short period of time by refusing to be limited by what another person said to me. hmmph! I am a bit competitive so once I learned what they were looking for I practiced until I could answer more of the questions with ease. I was already above average but I was not content with that at the time. I have been professionally tested in a clinical setting.

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That's cool. The question is, did you get better in life too or just on that one specific type of IQ test?

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I have also mentioned an ILI, I knew, who was so low on EQ it was hard to imagine how he was able to get along with others at all but he raised his EQ and then it was close to the same level as mine. He did it by deciding it was something important for him to learn. His IQ was already very high. He became a more compassionate person in the process. He also had perfectionist tendencies so wanted to be perfectly balanced in mind, body and spirit. I have no doubt that he could have achieved if he had more time. I do believe we can exercise our functions and I watch enough of brain games and superhumans to see that some people may have a superbrain. Fascinating really.

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Again, would you describe what exactly you mean by superbrain?

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Originally Posted by Myst

OK but I think these things should be done for specific goals, what's the point of wasting time trying to overcome every limitation you have and in the process achieve nothing really?
But yes, I agree that just because something is uncomfortable, it shouldn't stand in your way :p
Mental pliability... explain this concept of yours in more details please.

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Because what you achieve in the process will far surpass the goals you would set.

I think it depends on what you want out of life exactly. Part of the intended benefit of socionics is to help you come to an understanding of the shortcomings of yourself and others as well as an appreciation of talents and strong qualities you may have overlooked, ideally resulting in a sort of zen-like acceptance of people and the world. The other benefit of socionics is to use it in order to achieve your goals in life both through self improvement and (and this is where it may get ethically shaky) through using your socionics knowledge to your advantage in interactions with others. I've noticed that while there is some decent material available in english, there are relatively few articles about self improvement through socionics and much of the discussion around socionics tends to exaggerate the extent to which certain functions are completely immutable. Obviously you have strong and weak functions, but while your weak functions will most likely never be your main asset, they can definitely be strengthened.

As for using your socionics knowledge on other people, although it doesn't give you mind control powers or anything, it definitely does give you an advantage once you start to get good at typing others. The advantage is that socionics typing gives you a shortcut in understanding others, i.e. an insight into their strengths, weaknesses and inner motivations that you might otherwise not know about them unless you were a close friend of theirs for a long time. Obviously if you're Machiavellian enough you can use this knowledge to manipulate them either for your or their benefit, but as I mentioned before there's definitely a moral hazard in doing this carelessly.

The last warning I'd give is to not take everything you read about socionics too seriously, like any theory it has its shortcomings (although I'd argue that its much better than most psychological theories). The key is to gradually find out for yourself which aspects of socionics are true and to what extent they are true. Socionics isn't an all or nothing proposition like a mathematical formula, it's a theory meant to attempt to describe irreducibly complex features and nuances of personality differences and interpersonal reactions in the most elegant way possible.

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Originally Posted by Myst

That's cool. The question is, did you get better in life too or just on that one specific type of IQ test?

Again, would you describe what exactly you mean by superbrain?

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Yes, any self improvement = new experiences = better life

I do not claim to have a super brain but I believe there are many out there who do. I don't have to describe exactly since others already have. I will let a neuroscientist handle it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KnQK43Rtrc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1YK3iO36HI

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just stating my beliefs. Since my mind is not going to change on this subject, I leave it with this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1ITavYIcAAY5NJ.jpg

eh, i find being emotionally healthy to be boring and overrated. i really do.

personality disorders give you the will to set yourself apart from moral taboos. irrational people are the one who stand out, not the people who engage in mindless homeostasis, enraptured by a dull, clichéd existence.

if socionics has "taught" me anything, it's that Fi PoLR is nothing to be ashamed of; ergo, Mother Teresa should choke on my fat, hairy cock.

i think the value was supposed to be understanding relationship problems in a different light, perhaps even better so as to overcome issues. and i do like the concept in the sense that if we all process info differently, focus on different perceptions, then of course there will be information processing clashes... as for making one's own life and oneself more "awesome," i suppose i think socionics is a dead end.

I snatched my dual. I have been in a relationship with her for the last seven months.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

Because what you achieve in the process will far surpass the goals you would set.

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OK tell me about stuff you've achieved so far in this way.

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Originally Posted by shadowbox

I think it depends on what you want out of life exactly. Part of the intended benefit of socionics is to help you come to an understanding of the shortcomings of yourself and others as well as an appreciation of talents and strong qualities you may have overlooked, ideally resulting in a sort of zen-like acceptance of people and the world. The other benefit of socionics is to use it in order to achieve your goals in life both through self improvement and (and this is where it may get ethically shaky) through using your socionics knowledge to your advantage in interactions with others.

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Zen-like acceptance... or increased intolerance.

It's not really ethically shaky, it's shaky in terms of how it's not going to predict any specifics.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

Yes, any self improvement = new experiences = better life

I do not claim to have a super brain but I believe there are many out there who do. I don't have to describe exactly since others already have. I will let a neuroscientist handle it.

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Alright thanks for the links

When I asked about you getting better in life too, I meant in terms of IQ, not in terms of new experiences.

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Originally Posted by Myst

OK tell me about stuff you've achieved so far in this way.

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I am by far the coolest person ive ever met.

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Originally Posted by Myst

When I asked about you getting better in life too, I meant in terms of IQ, not in terms of new experiences.

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Yes, it made me more confident in my ability to do just about anything I put my mind to. Just because I have an aptitude for something doesn't mean I want to do or will enjoy doing it. Even with high aptitude it takes practice and a general desire to accomplish. I would not have the same IQ score today that I was able to achieve then because I simply did not continue to exercise my ability to solve those kinds of problems. If I ever need it, I know it is available to me. It's just in storage right now. :)

Oh, this Brave New World of socionics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J_s_SeSWGI

A glimpse of the potential?

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Originally Posted by Pookie

I am by far the coolest person ive ever met.

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:whistle:

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Originally Posted by Aylen

Yes, it made me more confident in my ability to do just about anything I put my mind to. Just because I have an aptitude for something doesn't mean I want to do or will enjoy doing it. Even with high aptitude it takes practice and a general desire to accomplish. I would not have the same IQ score today that I was able to achieve then because I simply did not continue to exercise my ability to solve those kinds of problems. If I ever need it, I know it is available to me. It's just in storage right now. :)

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Cool ;)

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Originally Posted by Myst

It's not really ethically shaky, it's shaky in terms of how it's not going to predict any specifics.

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I agree that its shaky in that way as well. Obviously, no psychological theory is going to reliably predict specific human behavior. My argument was that it can make you moderately better at predicting generalities.

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Originally Posted by shadowbox

I agree that its shaky in that way as well. Obviously, no psychological theory is going to reliably predict specific human behavior. My argument was that it can make you moderately better at predicting generalities.

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maybe but what use is that

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Originally Posted by krieger

think of each of the types as a state you can get into by imitating it. then learn to be that way over longer periods of time by "faking it till you make it". this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character. in the end you are certain type and there is a varying extent to which copying other types does and doesn't come naturally, but that doesn't mean you can't use each of the states as behavioral tools to get what you want when you want it.

this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

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I completely disagree with you, even though the idea make logical sense, but it will not make your life amazing at least it will make you stressed out (how much time will it take to master acting and thinking like all the 16 types??). knowing the types can help you understand others but it is waste of time and energy to try to be all of them.

the idea of knowing your type is self-awareness, the idea of self-development is self actualization, and amazing life needs self-expression. This being said it means you have to be yourself to enjoy an amazing happy life, not the opposite by wearing the masks of other types since it won't be natural anyway.

I think the best way for self-development is developing your creative function since it will express who you really are with alignment with your values and strengths. However, to have an amazing happy life you will have to use your developed creative function to make contribution even if it is for a single person.

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Originally Posted by OSG

I completely disagree with you, even though the idea make logical sense, but it will not make your life amazing at least it will make you stressed out (how much time will it take to master acting and thinking like all the 16 types??). knowing the types can help you understand others but it is waste of time and energy to try to be all of them.

the idea of knowing your type is self-awareness, the idea of self-development is self actualization, and amazing life needs self-expression. This being said it means you have to be yourself to enjoy an amazing happy life, not the opposite by wearing the masks of other types since it won't be natural anyway.

I think the best way for self-development is developing your creative function since it will express who you really are with alignment with your values and strengths. However, to have an amazing happy life you will have to use your developed creative function to make contribution even if it is for a single person.

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I read Krieger's post as being tinged with irony and sarcasm. Maybe I was wrong. Easier to see those things face to face.:shrug:

I pretty much agree with most of what you say here though. Welcome to the forum. :content:

OK, both of you have a serious case of reading miscomprehension going on. I really don't want to make an example of you but you do such a good job at it yourself that all I can provide is damage control. now that I'm pushed into this unenviable position, I'd better make sure you learn something.

you'll notice I used this passage:

"this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character"

Nowhere did I say you need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. I suggested only that making the ATTEMPT to the best of your capabilities is instructive as to the extent to which you can and can not achieve it. this in turn will solidify the definitional lines in your self concept by establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone. and where behavioral means lie within that comfort zone, they can henceforth be employed at will to achieve desired results.

...

would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.

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Originally Posted by krieger

OK, both of you have a serious case of reading miscomprehension going on. I really don't want to make an example of you but you do such a good job at it yourself that all I can provide is damage control. now that I'm pushed into this unenviable position, I'd better make sure you learn something.

you'll notice I used this passage:

"this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character"

Nowhere did I say you need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. I suggested only that making the ATTEMPT to the best of your capabilities is instructive as to the extent to which you can and can not achieve it. this in turn will solidify the definitional lines in your self concept by establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone. and where behavioral means lie within that comfort zone, they can henceforth be employed at will to achieve desired results.

...

would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.

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lol yeah I got that. I assumed this part was irony and sarcasm but maybe you meant it too.

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this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.

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Edit: Your avatar makes your attempt at supervision quite amusing.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

I read Krieger's post as being tinged with irony and sarcasm. Maybe I was wrong. Easier to see those things face to face.:shrug:

I pretty much agree with most of what you say here though. Welcome to the forum. :content:

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Even if it is tinged with irony and sarcasm, I am bad in figuring that out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krieger

OK, both of you have a serious case of reading miscomprehension going on. I really don't want to make an example of you but you do such a good job at it yourself that all I can provide is damage control. now that I'm pushed into this unenviable position, I'd better make sure you learn something.

you'll notice I used this passage:

"this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character"

Nowhere did I say you need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. I suggested only that making the ATTEMPT to the best of your capabilities is instructive as to the extent to which you can and can not achieve it. this in turn will solidify the definitional lines in your self concept by establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone. and where behavioral means lie within that comfort zone, they can henceforth be employed at will to achieve desired results.

...

would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.

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Sorry if my reply offended you and I didn't mean to push you to uneviable position, but I still don't agree with you. It is not that you are wrong but I don't see your method as effective.


I agree you didn't say I need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. However, the idea of experincing all types to establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone lack focus and which can lead to working on your weaknesses instead of your strengths so you may not reach your highest potential.


I agree using only the ego functions is not enough by itself but it must have the top priority as for your weaker function they should be developed to the good enough level since you won't master them anyway here comes the benefits of teams and friends to help you with their strengths which can be your weaknesses and that is especially true for your duals.

I just use it to help me read people better, to get an idea of their beliefs, motivations, neurosis, etc. And then it helps me decide how to deal with them, behave around them, resolve conflicts, or integrate them into parts of my life, if I think it would be a good idea to do so or I'd like to do so.

It doesn't really make things amazing or easy because I still have to take the journey myself. But it is helpful as a map or guide. Because it's a lot easier to accomplish what I want to, if I have some idea of what's going on around me.

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Originally Posted by krieger

would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.

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I have a quick question on this note because it relates to my original question on how to deal with the PoLR and grow as an individual. As a Ne type, understanding potential or lack thereof seems to be one of my personal aspects. I know how far I can track trends before my Ni breaks down, and I definitely see the limits of my Ti. I remember you type as LSI (I'm not certain, correct me if I'm wrong). Could it be possible that this method of going out and testing the limits of each of your functions and their potential may actually be how you dealt with your own personal Ne PoLR and lead to a satisfied Ni HA?

I'm very interested because if so then I can build a similar action plan by moving my efforts from Ne and Ni to Fi and Fe respectfully. Creating a personalized method for dealing with Fi insecurities while satisfying my own fe hidden agenda in a similar way. All by creating a personal concrete assessment of an area that causes me stress (Fi) in a safe way.

================================================== ====================================
A lot of what has been said has been pretty helpful, I definitely get the idea that more can be done with socionics than just acceptance and understanding how yourself and others "tick" though. It's probably hilariously pipe-dreamy, and rehashed, but I feel like this can be further used to create an even fuller life experience. If unhealthy relationships can cause emotional stress, and favourable ones personal growth I definitely feel there should be a personal lesson/set of rules all types can follow to pull themselves into a "best they can be" mentality that pulls duals/favourable relationships in like a magnet or honey concoction or whatever.

Currently my life is a mix of Lead and demonstrative. I've read somewhere that individuals should create with their creative to feel fulfilling and I have personal anecdotes where it did inspire me to be better. Unfortunately I do not find many outlets or opportunities to do this in day to day life though. I'm stuck learning the Te side of things in my application based tech studies and I definitely feel the lack of really digging in to understand stuff. Although the Te information does funnel into my understanding and my mind automatically can utilize this for Ti efforts, nobody in my program is worried about the full understanding and ignore the Ti side of things. How can Ti creatives create for others in day to day life?

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Originally Posted by RedMarquee

I'm very interested because if so then I can build a similar action plan by moving my efforts from Ne and Ni to Fi and Fe respectfully. Creating a personalized method for dealing with Fi insecurities while satisfying my own fe hidden agenda in a similar way. All by creating a personal concrete assessment of an area that causes me stress (Fi) in a safe way.

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I think this video can help from another ILE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euHTH1zjxaY

he suggest to value your HA (Fe) more than not valuing your polr (Fi) and I think he is right, since I did what he suggested unknowingly (I wasn't aware of socionics at that time) that happened because I valued my IEI ex gf feelings more than I hated her drama still that was not good enough since we broke up in the end, but I guess it made me much nicer (compared to before valuing my Fi)

I second the idea of satisfying the HA over the polr. Ti polr is kind of easy to improve to 2Dish (logic and/or critical thinking classes), but I definitely get further when I focus on Te. My Ne+Fi helps arrange the Te, enough to simulate 2-3D Ti. (Though it doesn't help much when communicating with Ti valuers, it does make the polr less painful.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krieger

Nowhere did I say you need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. I suggested only that making the ATTEMPT to the best of your capabilities is instructive as to the extent to which you can and can not achieve it. this in turn will solidify the definitional lines in your self concept by establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone. and where behavioral means lie within that comfort zone, they can henceforth be employed at will to achieve desired results.

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You sound autistic or just far off in la la land.

Seriously, using some crap theory like this is really just that.

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would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.

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1) Pretty irrelevant whether you say "function" or "type"
2) You can't really guarantee such a thing & you're being way too general
3) Behavioural experimentation without focus and specific goal is useless.

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Originally Posted by Aylen

Edit: Your avatar makes your attempt at supervision quite amusing.

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You meant Benefit relations?

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Originally Posted by RedMarquee

I have a quick question on this note because it relates to my original question on how to deal with the PoLR and grow as an individual. As a Ne type, understanding potential or lack thereof seems to be one of my personal aspects. I know how far I can track trends before my Ni breaks down, and I definitely see the limits of my Ti. I remember you type as LSI (I'm not certain, correct me if I'm wrong). Could it be possible that this method of going out and testing the limits of each of your functions and their potential may actually be how you dealt with your own personal Ne PoLR and lead to a satisfied Ni HA?

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No, afaik he types as LII.

I don't see Ne PoLR -as per its definition- doing such a thing btw.

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A lot of what has been said has been pretty helpful, I definitely get the idea that more can be done with socionics than just acceptance and understanding how yourself and others "tick" though. It's probably hilariously pipe-dreamy, and rehashed, but I feel like this can be further used to create an even fuller life experience. If unhealthy relationships can cause emotional stress, and favourable ones personal growth I definitely feel there should be a personal lesson/set of rules all types can follow to pull themselves into a "best they can be" mentality that pulls duals/favourable relationships in like a magnet or honey concoction or whatever.

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No, you don't understand, if you want a fuller life experience, you need to move way past the limits of socionics theory. Take the theory just as it's stated, it's a pretty restricted one really.

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Currently my life is a mix of Lead and demonstrative. I've read somewhere that individuals should create with their creative to feel fulfilling and I have personal anecdotes where it did inspire me to be better. Unfortunately I do not find many outlets or opportunities to do this in day to day life though. I'm stuck learning the Te side of things in my application based tech studies and I definitely feel the lack of really digging in to understand stuff. Although the Te information does funnel into my understanding and my mind automatically can utilize this for Ti efforts, nobody in my program is worried about the full understanding and ignore the Ti side of things. How can Ti creatives create for others in day to day life?

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When I was in a situation where Te was preferred I still utilized Ti as well. Simply meaning I processed things in a way that made sense to me. No one stops you from processing shit via Ti instead of Te if you are motivated to process in this fashion.

As for the question about Ti creatives, I think that's way too general too, figure out your actual problem and address that.

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Originally Posted by anndelise

I second the idea of satisfying the HA over the polr. Ti polr is kind of easy to improve to 2Dish (logic and/or critical thinking classes), but I definitely get further when I focus on Te. My Ne+Fi helps arrange the Te, enough to simulate 2-3D Ti. (Though it doesn't help much when communicating with Ti valuers, it does make the polr less painful.)

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In my case, if I do retrospective analysis*, I find I'm better off focusing on things that are socionically categorized as Ni over Ne and also better off with Fe over Fi.. hmm... is that even fitting model A.

*: No way I would try to use this theory to affect my choices and behaviour in some completely unnatural way. It's unreliable in terms of predictive power.

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Originally Posted by Myst

You meant Benefit relations?

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Not really since I don't know his type. I just called it an attempt anyway. It had the tone of an overseer who had to come in and correct something that was done wrong, when they would rather be doing something else. Fuck it, I was annoyed... not going to pretend I wasn't.. :shrug:

This

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Common social roles

The entrepreneur or speculator who is constantly thinking of how to turn everything into money, yet continues to count pennies and make sacrifices even after he or she has become wealthy.

The job-hopper or independent contractor who is constantly changing jobs or locations in order to progress or out of a fear of stagnation, to the sacrifice of his personal life, which will be settled "some day".

The maverick politician or activist who defends positions politically unpalatable to the conventional wisdom of the time, either rising to power when his positions are later seen as correct, or remaining a niche politician with a limited number of followers.

The know-it-all windbag who has lots of information about many subjects, and helpfully or annoyingly is always ready to share it with those around him, equally ready to correct the erroneous remarks made by anyone else, always with pitiless courtesy.

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or that

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Common social roles

The lone repository of truth — the last stalwart in a crazy world of illogic and delusion.

The self-sacrificing workaholic who works hard, not in order to earn money, but because he doesn't want to give anything less than 100%.

Mr. or Ms. Literal, who says exactly what (s)he means, and trusts that you will too.

The book worm who spends every moment of every day reading.

The smart aleck who never lets authorities tell him what to think and always finds a way to get the last word.

The specialist who devotes every waking moment to excelling in an extremely narrow but highly competitive technical field.

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No big deal. I'm over it. :cool:

After checking through all your inputs, running themes, watching vids, thanks again. I've kind of made a rulebook to get me to open up and find accepting like quadra, let me know what you think:

1. Prefer To Verbalize Valued Elements
2. Focus on HA more than PoLR, (But less than Ego)
3. Stop consciously attempting to utilize PoLR
4. Pay attention to your HA in others before utilizing it.Testing waters with Ego first.
5. Focus on Ego Block.
6. Look for ways to create with your creative.
7. Don't be too proud to accept vocal Suggestive and offhanded PoLR help.

I've really concentrated on my base function more. I've expanded my relationship circle. I worry less about how i come off and concerned more about togetherness. I don't worry about how I look because it's something that has always worried me and judgements regarding it slid off. I don't have energy problems or problems thinking about whether I can expand energy to get thinga done because my bf is mcchill and he takes over a lot of tasks. I focus more on the health of my loved ones and make more suggeations by the way of ideas rather than getting upset.

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Originally Posted by RedMarquee

After checking through all your inputs, running themes, watching vids, thanks again. I've kind of made a rulebook to get me to open up and find accepting like quadra, let me know what you think:

1. Prefer To Verbalize Valued Elements
2. Focus on HA more than PoLR, (But less than Ego)
3. Stop consciously attempting to utilize PoLR
4. Pay attention to your HA in others before utilizing it.Testing waters with Ego first.
5. Focus on Ego Block.
6. Look for ways to create with your creative.
7. Don't be too proud to accept vocal Suggestive and offhanded PoLR help.

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1.: You mean behaving as yourself? Sure that will be a good filter to remove people who don't like your stuff :p no matter if socionics or nonsocionics reasons

3.: I can actually give advice on that - do also put focus on your creative in place of PoLR whenever the creative is suitable way of information processing for the given issue. (Focus on HA too, sure but the creative will more effortlessly solve some issues)

6.: Still sounds like an overly general idea to me.

7.: I have to agree, it's good to not be too proud for the DS input from people with that function in their egos. Listen a bit more. Yep.