Tired of Kill4Me's unsolicited retypings of me behind my back - so discuss here.

i for one am tremendously tired of how kill4me keep retyping me. i wish s/he would cut it out. first s/he types me one thing, then another, then yet another. i mean, jesus, make up your mind. there are only 16 options. there's no need to keep going at it. it's not like this is infinity, or something worth your while.

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Originally Posted by inumbra

i for one am tremendously tired of how kill4me keep retyping me. i wish s/he would cut it out. first s/he types me one thing, then another, then yet another. i mean, jesus, make up your mind. there are only 16 options. there's no need to keep going at it. it's not like this is infinity, or something worth your while.

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Did you ask him directly yet to stop with the retyping? (I don't mind you posting here, no worries about that)

*bump*

I ditched the generic beta ST, I'm pretty sure on my type now, of course if anyone has observations, comments, I'm happy to hear. :)

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Originally Posted by maithili

I actually agree with this completely.

Badgering people for a response is not something I've ever seen an SLE or LSI do, they drop the ball and move on. Even LSEs, who are a little more persistent when they feel they deserve a reply/answer, don't take it this far.

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I disagree with this sentence in general, especially in regards to SLE. They do badger for a response with certain people, any response, lack of Fe is felt very painfully by them. Things go into a certain limbo until the question they have in question has been answered. This could look like asking the same thing at different points in time, asking the same question over, even when receiving the same answer. It's this sense of reassurance, aka acknowledgement is what they are after. The answer they are looking for is highly individualized and may not even be a proper answer, but a sort of pat on the head for inquiring. "Good dog". SLE will not be ignored, or they will just get annoying, or act out, or sulk, or suddenly start treating the person in question poorly. The remedy to this is to reply quickly. Unless you want to be their dual, in which case, you know when the right time is!

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Originally Posted by wacey

I disagree with this sentence in general, especially in regards to SLE. They do badger for a response with certain people, any response, lack of Fe is felt very painfully by them. Things go into a certain limbo until the question they have in question has been answered. This could look like asking the same thing at different points in time, asking the same question over, even when receiving the same answer. It's this sense of reassurance, aka acknowledgement is what they are after. The answer they are looking for is highly individualized and may not even be a proper answer, but a sort of pat on the head for inquiring. "Good dog". SLE will not be ignored, or they will just get annoying, or act out, or sulk, or suddenly start treating the person in question poorly. The remedy to this is to reply quickly. Unless you want to be their dual, in which case, you know when the right time is!

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Why I do it is because I obviously need the information for some reason and I see no valid reason for the person to not want to answer the question. I'm not looking for this "pat on the head" thing type of reassurance at all. I don't see why anyone would need that sort of thing.

Of course if the person has a reason for not answering and they tell me that I will accept that as long as it's reasonable. But simply playing the ignore tactics is not something that works with me.

Going back to how you described SLEs, I absolutely do not understand what sort of inquiring is that needs this pat simply for the fact of inquiring. Explain that more? Some example? As for myself, what I want is a proper answer that I can analyse, no more no less.

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Originally Posted by Myst

Why I do it is because I obviously need the information for some reason and I see no valid reason for the person to not want to answer the question. I'm not looking for this "pat on the head" thing type of reassurance at all. I don't see why anyone would need that sort of thing.

Of course if the person has a reason for not answering and they tell me that I will accept that as long as it's reasonable. But simply playing the ignore tactics is not something that works with me.

Going back to how you described SLEs, I absolutely do not understand what sort of inquiring is that needs this pat simply for the fact of inquiring. Explain that more? Some example? As for myself, what I want is a proper answer that I can analyse, no more no less.

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Its sort of like, "look at me, I've said something, arn't you going to pay attention to it, I said something, look at what I'm doing now, arn't you watching, why arn't you watching? Do you know what I think? Arn't I a good partner, son, daughter, coworker, parent, for shining my light on you....You don't want to know what I think......? You want to know what I think". SLE give what you give them. By correctly responding to their unique style, you reassure them. Its like, they want both an answer and a gold star for the effort.

If ignored: "fine then, I don't need you, I don't want you, why do I bother with you, I'm better off without you, you are the one that did this, you don't want me, its you, you you."..... All huff and puff, means nothing underneath. Of course, they need you, of course they want you, of course they bother with you, of course they THINK they would be better off without you, and of course they think they are unwanted and of course they think its all you, when in reality, its mostly them.

The pat on the head is just an acknowledgement, could be a smile, a laugh at something that was said, meeting the conversation halfway, meeting them halfway, reassurance of your feelings...verbally and emotionally.

And before you ask, no, not all sociotypes need this kind of immediate, visceral feedback. SLIs, ILIs, being the most obvious examples.

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Originally Posted by Myst

Why I do it is because I obviously need the information for some reason and I see no valid reason for the person to not want to answer the question. I'm not looking for this "pat on the head" thing type of reassurance at all. I don't see why anyone would need that sort of thing.

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Also, I was talking to that other member and I did say IN GENERAL SLE are...., not specifically discussing this situation from this thread in particular.

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Originally Posted by wacey

Its sort of like, "look at me, I've said something, arn't you going to pay attention to it, I said something, look at what I'm doing now, arn't you watching, why arn't you watching? Do you know what I think? Arn't I a good partner, son, daughter, coworker, parent, for shining my light on you....You don't want to know what I think......? You want to know what I think". SLE give what you give them. By correctly responding to their unique style, you reassure them. Its like, they want both an answer and a gold star for the effort.

If ignored: "fine then, I don't need you, I don't want you, why do I bother with you, I'm better off without you, you are the one that did this, you don't want me, its you, you you."..... All huff and puff, means nothing underneath. Of course, they need you, of course they want you, of course they bother with you, of course they THINK they would be better off without you, and of course they think they are unwanted and of course they think its all you, when in reality, its mostly them.

The pat on the head is just an acknowledgement, could be a smile, a laugh at something that was said, meeting the conversation halfway, meeting them halfway, reassurance of your feelings...verbally and emotionally.

And before you ask, no, not all sociotypes need this kind of immediate, visceral feedback. SLIs, ILIs, being the most obvious examples.

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Well I relate to the part about expecting someone to look at me if I talk to them and I expect them to answer yes. As for looking at what I'm doing.. sure that's nice too. I don't expect anyone to know what I think without me telling them explicitly though lol but yes of course I prefer my friends/partner when I have one to want to know what I think. A unique style I certainly have :p But I don't relate to the wanting this much reassurance or the gold star thing. But yes, immediate visceral feedback is good otherwise. What do Fe PoLRs need instead though?

A lot of your description sounds like Fi PoLR, seems like I really just have Ne PoLR not Fi PoLR then.

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Originally Posted by wacey

Also, I was talking to that other member and I did say IN GENERAL SLE are...., not specifically discussing this situation from this thread in particular.

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Yep I got your wording about how this was about SLEs in general. The situation in this thread doesn't fit it anyway

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Originally Posted by Myst

Well I relate to the part about expecting someone to look at me if I talk to them and I expect them to answer yes. As for looking at what I'm doing.. sure that's nice too. I don't expect anyone to know what I think without me telling them explicitly though lol but yes of course I prefer my friends/partner when I have one to want to know what I think. A unique style I certainly have :p But I don't relate to the wanting this much reassurance or the gold star thing. But yes, immediate visceral feedback is good otherwise. What do Fe PoLRs need instead though?

A lot of your description sounds like Fi PoLR, seems like I really just have Ne PoLR not Fi PoLR then.

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I would say its a combination of Ni agenda, Fe mobilization and Fi vulnerable. In another variation the same is true for LSI. Hmmm, funny how the psyche and its subsequent actions are all intertwined and not operating in some non-exsistant, reductionist segments...block block block?

.....I don't feel like talking about Fe-polr right now, although I have done so on numerous occasions in the past at length. Briefly, it is not simply the opposite of what the past few posts here have described.

I would say that over the long haul, a certain sense of reassurance is just as crucial for LSI, otherwise, how would they fulfill their pathetic hidden agenda to believe? Believe, in WHAT exactly?

Since it's unsolicited it must be a cardinal sin.

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Originally Posted by wacey

I would say its a combination of Ni agenda, Fe mobilization and Fi vulnerable. In another variation the same is true for LSI. Hmmm, funny how the psyche and its subsequent actions are all intertwined and not operating in some non-exsistant, reductionist segments...block block block?

.....I don't feel like talking about Fe-polr right now, although I have done so on numerous occasions in the past at length. Briefly, it is not simply the opposite of what the past few posts here have described.

I would say that over the long haul, a certain sense of reassurance is just as crucial for LSI, otherwise, how would they fulfill their pathetic hidden agenda to believe? Believe, in WHAT exactly?

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Believe in the vision. Though in my case I don't need reassurance about this sort of thing. I'm pretty independent.

And yeah, the stuff is all interconnected of course. What other variation were you referring to in terms of LSI, the Ni HA?

Do you have a post from earlier where you talked about Fe PoLR? Would like to understand some ILI's better

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Originally Posted by Ian Rust

Since it's unsolicited it must be a cardinal sin.

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Lol. No, the "cardinal sin" was not that but I already explained it in the fourth post of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Ian Rust

Since it's unsolicited it must be a cardinal sin.

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Huh? Oops, nevermind, I see.

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Originally Posted by Myst

Believe in the vision.

And yeah, the stuff is all interconnected of course. What other variation were you referring to in terms of LSI, the Ni HA?

Do you have a post from earlier where you talked about Fe PoLR? Would like to understand some ILI's better

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Mostly talked about SLIs Fe-polr in round about fashion, in threads like this one:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...nd-ENFj)/page3

I wrote this sometime ago.

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So I have been living with an SLI for the past few months and did so for several years awhile back, and quite possibly a much younger version of an SLI as well as roommates. The two, despite the large age difference, are very similar people. The are both quite for the most part, keep to themselves while around home. The younger one is a lot more emotive, he likes watching Adventure Time, laughing lots. Mostly he gets worked up only about his jobs, is he getting paid enough? are the benefits worth the hassles? and so on. The older one hardly, if ever in all the years I've known him, opens up about personal things unprompted. I have to read between the lines most of the time.

Me: how was work?
Him :fine
Me: fine? what does that mean?
Him: means work was good.
Me: so what did you do?
Him: Worked on a bathroom getting the tiling finished.
Me: did it go okay?
Him: yeeeaah.
Me: it sounds like it didn't.
Him: it went good.
Me: so why don't you seem happy about it?
Him: I am happy about it.
(clearly not happy about it)
SO I stop asking and move on to something else.

Pressing an SLI for answers I have found to be fruitless. You got to see how they are really thinking and feeling, then the trick here is to move on, without assuming to much.

Me: So it looks like you are hungry, I'm starving, you want to go out for dinner?
Him: Sure. No expression, no tonal change, just yes.
I know he will feel better soon….

When an SLI says yes, the mean yes. They are not going to elaborate to appease you, and if you want more in depth answers, you got to get them with tact, pressing for answers, then pulling away. This is def true of this older SLI here, and even more so of the younger one. Asking him: what do you think of …this, that, and the other thing? how did you feel about it? seems like you are sad? He often replies with condescending laughter and repeats back what I said to him as if he was surprised I asked and is buying more time: what do you mean what do I think about it?

It's all very one step forward, two steps back.

SLI are chill, like they don't make issues were they don't see issues. So like Matrix and Iris said, from what I have seen the best way to relate with and live with these guys and girls is to go about it in a Fi way, for instance respecting the relationship with them, not pressing for answers when they are getting irritated (they don't want or need emotional release in the same way an LSI needs it), and being chill at the right moments. Both the older and younger SLI's like to go to house parties, and as cliche as it sounds love to go to food parties. The older one honestly just sits in the back of the room with this shit eating grin on his face, not participating, but certainly not NOT involved in the festivities, you know?

If I go over to him and sit beside him and say: are you having fun?
Him: yes I am.
Me: but you are back here?
Him: so? I'm watching.
Me: okay, smiles and pats his back and walks back to the group. Or I sit there with him just to show him I'm his friend. After all these years I still do this, even though it does annoy me about him. BUT, people don't change in some regards. I've learned the SLI lessons. IF he says yes, then usually he means yes.

I relate to them because like me, they tend to roll with the punches in an IP fashion. But different at the same time? I would like to elaborate more on this point if interest is shown.

They are like quite house pets in a way, I'm sorry to say guys but you are.

I can see the confictor relationship going quite well in some ways simple because the SLI is so adept at keeping to themselves. Even in a working relationship I would wager that the EIE wouldn't mind SLI because the SLI gets stuff done. However, I caution to say the SLI gets stuff done, BUT preferably in their own way on their own schedule. They do not flourish under strict management's and will complain profusely if they are constantly being monitored. Which an EIE might tend to do, through no fault of their own, they just simply need verbal feedback. So maaaybe SLI's keeping to themselves is exactly the kind of thing that would confuse an EIE.

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Here is another thread with some clues into Fe-polr (at least how I see it unfolding in SLI lives, which must have similar features with ILI):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...xperience-SLIs

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Different polarities. SLI is going to want to vegitate in his free time, whether thats at home by himself in front of a television, or at his best friends in front of a television. EIE feels fine with doing nothing, sometimes because this calms his worry wort Si superego especially when he needs to recharge his energy. The trouble comes when EIE realizes chillaxing in front of a TV/internet is on the schedule everyday, day in and day out for the SLI. Which wouldn't be so bad the EIE thinks, if the SLI would be a little more reactive and I don't mean the chuckles and snickers and cheshire cat smiles, even the most emotive SLI leave something to be desired for EIE.

EIE will be baffled by SLI ability to seemingly hold on to feelings for years and his ability to live off a single smile or hug or shared conversation or romance, as these brief moments will not be enough for EIE.

When it comes to activities together things seem to work out fine while alone, although SLI will feel sensitive and oft slighted by EIE tastefully competitive remarks, very much unlike IEE jokes, whose pokes and jabs are never meant to cause harm. And why would EIE say these things? Audaciousness brings out the fun in others, a lesson perfected by IEE, but of the wrong kind with EIE.

In public, EIE will at first be totally disappointed that self-concious SLI hides in the back of the groups, perfectly content viewing the unfolding play from the bleachers.

EIE will find himself trying to draw SLI into the proceedings, if he is clever he would do this quietly and with tact, "Are you alright? It doesn't seem like you are having fun?" In which the SLI will reply with easily perceptive scorn "Yes I'm fine", I don't want to move" his tone perfectly saying: why are you even asking me?!

Eventually EIE initial disappointment will turn into disdain, he sees how inept SLI behaves when put in the spotlight. The spotlight needn't be some center stage, merely as the sole person talking in a group in the living room, or around a restaurant table. The EIE has manners, even if he feels SLI is a dead weight tag along, a wet blanket, a guy who acts above it all to cope with his insecurities, he will steer the conversation away from speech shy SLI. Next time though, SLI just won't be invited along at all.

Unfortunately SLI will notice he's not being invited out, not that he would ever advocate for his needs anyway, he will just simply sulk. The sulking will annoy EIE who needs people to advocate for their own rights, he would gladly invite SLI out if only the SLI would just say "Hey, can I tag-along?" "Of course!" exclaims EIE. The cycle repeats.

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Originally Posted by Myst

And yeah, the stuff is all interconnected of course. What other variation were you referring to in terms of LSI, the Ni HA?

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Ij/Ej rationality and the sense of reassurance the rational beta ST needs is tailored for a longer exposure to another person. More open socially in a passive manner then SLE, yet on a close relationship status more guarded and careful, that is why they are mobilized by a person who puts their interactions into a perspective framework, in other words, a vision.

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Originally Posted by wacey

Here is another thread with some clues into Fe-polr (at least how I see it unfolding in SLI lives, which must have similar features with ILI)

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Thanks. Yes I find ILI is like this too. For me it's so hard to understand this Fe PoLR thing though that I might as well be EIE haha. (Just joking)

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Originally Posted by wacey

Ij/Ej rationality and the sense of reassurance the rational beta ST needs is tailored for a longer exposure to another person. More open socially in a passive manner then SLE, yet on a close relationship status more guarded and careful, that is why they are mobilized by a person who puts their interactions into a perspective framework, in other words, a vision.

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Oh that makes sense. Only thing I don't understand is what exactly you mean by LSI being more open socially than SLE?

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Originally Posted by wacey

Mostly talked about SLIs Fe-polr in round about fashion, in threads like this one:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...nd-ENFj)/page3

I wrote this sometime ago.

Here is another thread with some clues into Fe-polr (at least how I see it unfolding in SLI lives, which must have similar features with ILI):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...xperience-SLIs

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This sounds like asking a teenager how school went for them today

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Originally Posted by Amber

compared to Ananke (quite surely SLE sx/sp, likely an 8) you seem less vivid/intense and more focused on entertainment for some reason. my 2 cents.

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i think they're sp/so.

Ananke ..? She struck me as Sx first from my first days on forum when she was going though a break-up and wrote about the stuff and her feelings around here. She personalizes experiences too much for some other stack...especially for a SLE who may choose not to approach emotional issues at all.

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Originally Posted by Amber

Ananke ..? She struck me as Sx first from my first days on forum when she was going though a break-up and wrote about the stuff and her feelings around here. She personalizes experiences too much for some other stack...especially for a SLE who may choose not to approach emotional issues at all.

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i'm talking about myst.

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Originally Posted by Words

This sounds like asking a teenager how school went for them today

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Sure, but when you get uncommunicative SLIs, the conversation goes the same no matter what is talked about. Could be about anything under the sun, imo, your not going to get endless soliloquies out of these people. *hugs SLIs* I'm sorry, but for the ones that don't talk much, you know its true.

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Originally Posted by mercutio

i think they're sp/so.

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No I'm sx-dom. What made you think sp/so?

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Originally Posted by Myst

Oh that makes sense. Only thing I don't understand is what exactly you mean by LSI being more open socially than SLE?

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Rationality.
Higher tolerance for the moment.
Introversion leading to higher reflection, calm front.
Fe suggestive, more attunted with others, more responsive to directed social appeal.
Higher tolerance for expression in others, coupled with uncertainty/self control leading to a more passive openness to the present personal situation.
Stemming from positivist type, orientated to what present moment people can bring them, leading to certain trust and slightly stronger public rapport with others, including strangers.
Introverted feeling role function leading to super-egoic forced considerations (never underestimate the power of "I should be... this/that...")
Reliance on Ti rules: "be nice to people, be polite in this situation, when they say hi I say...."
Demonstrates a certain sense of felt camaraderie comes from LSI.
Better at assimilating experiences into positive aspects, including interactions with other people.
Tendency to attentively listen to others.

All equal a more socially open (conscientious) personality type. Which even makes more sense in light of being part of the rational dyad of an Fe quadra. And I was thinking more nuts and bolts kind of interactions that require transmission of well-meaning and proper intentions. They might come across as less natural then other sociotypes, but it leans towards social conscientiousness. I should say conscientiousness instead of social openness I'm sorry I hadn't thought it out thoroughly enough before.

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Originally Posted by Myst

No I'm sx-dom. What made you think sp/so?

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You seem impersonal, and prudish.

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Originally Posted by wacey

Rationality.
Higher tolerance for the moment.
Introversion leading to higher reflection, calm front.
Fe suggestive, more attunted with others, more responsive to directed social appeal.
Higher tolerance for expression in others, coupled with uncertainty/self control leading to a more passive openness to the present personal situation.
Stemming from positivist type, orientated to what present moment people can bring them, leading to certain trust and report with others, including strangers.
Introverted feeling role function leading to super-egoic forced considerations (never underestimate the power of "I should be thinking this/that...")
Reliance on Ti rules: "be nice to people, be polite in this situation, when they say hi I say...."
Demonstrates a certain sense of felt camaraderie comes from LSI.
Better at assimilating experiences into positive aspects, including interactions with other people.
Tendency to attentively listen to others.

All equal a more socially open (conscientious) personality type. Which even makes more sense in light of being part of the rational dyad of an Fe quadra. And I was thinking more nuts and bolts kind of interactions that require transmission of well-meaning and proper intentions. They might come across as less natural then other sociotypes, but it leans towards social conscientiousness. I should say conscientiousness instead of social openness I'm sorry I hadn't thought it out thoroughly enough before.

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OK can you describe SLE too in this format? Pretty cool description :)

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Originally Posted by mercutio

You seem impersonal, and prudish.

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Impersonal I will take but prudish? You have not seen me in close interaction :p But yes it makes sense that you see me that way.

Otoh, these are traits of Ti/IJ too. Try to figure out from limited observation what exactly a concrete behavioural trait is caused by.. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by wacey

I disagree with this sentence in general, especially in regards to SLE. They do badger for a response with certain people, any response, lack of Fe is felt very painfully by them. Things go into a certain limbo until the question they have in question has been answered. This could look like asking the same thing at different points in time, asking the same question over, even when receiving the same answer. It's this sense of reassurance, aka acknowledgement is what they are after. The answer they are looking for is highly individualized and may not even be a proper answer, but a sort of pat on the head for inquiring. "Good dog". SLE will not be ignored, or they will just get annoying, or act out, or sulk, or suddenly start treating the person in question poorly. The remedy to this is to reply quickly. Unless you want to be their dual, in which case, you know when the right time is!

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The painful part is the Fi-polr hit, which happens when someone they think is close to them suddenly cuts them off.

Within a group that is fully interacting, sure they press for acknowledgement but that's not what I was talking about.

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Originally Posted by maithili

The painful part is the Fi-polr hit, which happens when someone they think is close to them suddenly cuts them off.

Within a group that is fully interacting, sure they press for acknowledgement but that's not what I was talking about.

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I think I know what you are talking about, maybe :D

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Originally Posted by maithili

The painful part is the Fi-polr hit, which happens when someone they think is close to them suddenly cuts them off.

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Ah if that's Fi PoLR, which does make sense, then clearly I don't have it. Though a Fi that's weak enough to be close to PoLR, sure. In terms of getting surprised but not because I would assume someone was that close to me. I don't think I would make that sort of glaring mistake. Where I can make a mistake is not noticing that someone may have a problem if they don't directly express it to me, Fe expression will definitely get my attention though.

So yeah I never experienced someone cutting me off while I was believing that the person was close. No I just assume they are not on special good terms with me unless there's directly expressed Fe information telling me about that. That's of course not the same thing as the Fi side of closeness. I also check for consistency of the actions to judge these things.

Anyway I've had it happen to me that someone that I was quite interested in cut me off and while I didn't think we were close it still surprised me a lot because I was not aware that she even had a problem. Sigh, that's what open communication is for, so you won't get to this point unnecessarily. We did get it sorted later, though.

Actually, thinking of another case, I did think we were almost kinda close, though I was unsure because I did not see full enough consistency in terms of that so I was still checking for that. Then she cut me off and again due to lack of open communication. Ugh.. I explained this to her later, we are fine now.

All in all I do prefer people bringing things out in the open so everything can be discussed. I can then make sense of the emotions of people which is good :)

As to how much of this is type related, well, it's clear I have a tendency to analyze relationships via Ti. And I make mistakes in the Ethical area, for sure, I'm not gonna deny that either

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Within a group that is fully interacting, sure they press for acknowledgement but that's not what I was talking about.

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No, you were talking about wanting an answer to a question. Well it's part of my own particular framework for communication. That's not exactly type related, as to what's in my system for communication. You get what I mean?

Don't try to make any conclusion on possible types from one tidbit of info that is extremely loosely linked to the information processing core of the functions. Also, just because you observed a few people who you happened to type EIE/ILE/IEE that did some sort of going after some sort of questions, it does not mean it's a reliable pattern especially if you cannot explain it as a direct causal relationship between the pattern and the information processing in the socionics sense. I find that sort of speculation entirely meaningless.

Lol I got the newest snippet showing how desperate @Kill4Me is in his obsession about how I'm not SLE or Beta.

Well, newsflash, I type as LSI over SLE, I do type as Beta tho' and no comment on Kill4Me trying to get someone else* to convince me about my type. Speaks for itself.

Also the arguments as quoted are very weak. Speculatively connecting things that are too far from each other, just no. Asking/Declaring dichotomy and Ti are clearly not understood well.

*: @Aspherical

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Originally Posted by Kill4Me

I've decided to include you this time Aspherical....Myst seems to chat with you a lot in the chat box.

you're in a position to persuade her that she's not sle. take it from me, she's not.

she is ILE. ILE and SLE are lookalikes. that means you have to look close to see the differences

anybody that knows beta quadra would know, for example, that mcbain is the only beta in the below chat excerpt....myst isn't.

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[Today 07:05 PM] Myst : haha Elina that sounds cute
[Today 07:05 PM] Elina :
[Today 07:06 PM] Spider : but then I'd have to be VS cog and result irrational and positivist and emotivist and nooooo
[Today 07:06 PM] Spider : too much pressure
[Today 07:07 PM] Myst : lol Spider
[Today 07:07 PM] Spider : plus everyone else is IEI so I don't wanna be
[Today 07:07 PM] Spider :
[Today 07:07 PM] Elina : I sometimes wonder how well I'd be able to defend myself if someone wanted to fight me. I don't know if I have that instinct. At the same time I would wanna defend myself but without that rage and anger that makes ppl wanna fight I don't know if it would automatically turn on - that physical awareness thing or whatever it is
[Today 07:07 PM] Myst : keep showing more of your thinking process Spider
[Today 07:07 PM] aixelsyd : quit being such a hipster, spider
[Today 07:07 PM] Myst : then maybe I can say something definite
[Today 07:07 PM] Spider : well give me a topic then
[Today 07:08 PM] Myst : Elina: interesting.. I always took it for natural that I had the instincts for it.
[Today 07:08 PM] Myst : rage and me have an interesting relationship
[Today 07:08 PM] Spider : I kiss people when I'm drunk you're lucky to be way away across the internet
[Today 07:08 PM] Myst : I usually still keep a logical core inside while raging
[Today 07:08 PM] Spider : xoxox turns into 10101
[Today 07:08 PM] aixelsyd : Spider: tell me about your mother *smokes cigar*
[Today 07:08 PM] Myst : so it's funny, cold and angry at the same time
[Today 07:08 PM] Elina : lol woof nah. I'd rather live in my happy e9 bubble
[Today 07:08 PM] Elina : myst yep. sounds like my ex lol
[Today 07:08 PM] McBain : Elina you're kind of a pussy -- but that's arguably a form of defense in many respects.

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like...there's never anything beta in her interactions in the chat box:

Quote:

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[Today 08:52 PM] ryoka14 : you see everything just as it is
[Today 08:52 PM] Myst : I cant reify it any more than this
[Today 08:52 PM] inumbra : or all the things that happen to others but not to us... like car accidents
[Today 08:52 PM] Myst : ryoka: tripping balls? eh?
[Today 08:52 PM] Myst : you hurt your balls you mean?
[Today 08:52 PM] inumbra : i definitely think the mind protects us from the horrors of reality
[Today 08:53 PM] Myst : aixel it's NOT reality right now. when someone actually dies then it's reality, not until then
[Today 08:53 PM] aixelsyd : i don't do drugs
[Today 08:53 PM] aixelsyd : semantics
[Today 08:53 PM] Myst : get rid of the overactive mind worrying you
[Today 08:53 PM] inumbra : but it is... like my mom and my sister are central to my world... they must exist in it
[Today 08:53 PM] inumbra : my reality is defined by both of them being here
[Today 08:53 PM] aixelsyd : ok, fine, how about the reality people and their loved ones are dying. right. now
[Today 08:54 PM] aixelsyd : like some in political camps in North Korea
[Today 08:54 PM] inumbra : and so i don't want to think about a world without them and my mind does blot that out
[Today 08:54 PM] aixelsyd : even with NDEs, and all
[Today 08:54 PM] Myst : inumbra: then dont think about it. simple as that
[Today 08:54 PM] aixelsyd : where people hallucinate seeing and hearing their loved ones
[Today 08:54 PM] Myst : aixel: ok why do you care about north korea?
[Today 08:55 PM] Myst : oh
[Today 08:55 PM] Myst : the NDEs are weird
[Today 08:55 PM] aixelsyd : because i have empathy

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its super clear that she's an asking type, too.

Quote:

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[Today 09:00 PM] Myst : what was your type, ryoka?
[Today 09:00 PM] aixelsyd : and i had to wonder if there was any hope or any way to alter my perception to be more in line with whatever objective reality is out there, but resigned myself to how that was pretty much hopeless
[Today 09:00 PM] Myst : aixel: oh..
[Today 09:00 PM] ryoka14 : i dont know lol
[Today 09:01 PM] Myst : now what do we call objective reality, aixel
[Today 09:01 PM] Myst : ryoka: this sounds Se seeking to me
[Today 09:01 PM] inumbra : i don't know i think all we see is our idea of the flower
[Today 09:01 PM] aixelsyd : so idk if that's kinda what you mean, but prolly not
[Today 09:01 PM] Myst : sorry to bring up socionics but it really seemed to match, ha
[Today 09:01 PM] Myst : inumbra: sounded like ryoka was talking about only taking in the sensory data and no further interpretations.
[Today 09:02 PM] ryoka14 : yeah inumbra i mean tats my point though - the mind protects us because if we actually see the flower - its too much, we wouldnt get anything done
[Today 09:02 PM] Myst : ryoka: what? why would it be too much?
[Today 09:02 PM] aixelsyd : objective reality for lack of a better word
[Today 09:03 PM] Myst : aixel: yes but describe what that would be?
[Today 09:03 PM] aixelsyd : or how different, even, my perceptions would be if i was raised in an entirely different world with an entirely different culture
[Today 09:03 PM] Myst : which perceptions
[Today 09:03 PM] Myst : social ones? whats acceptable, whats not, stuff like that?

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And just look at all this Ne (this is not Ti. Ti block in SLE contains references to the qualia/tone/texture of objects/people):

Quote:

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[Today 09:05 PM] ryoka14 : its just too much, its too real, you can see the complexity and beauty in everything so to speak. i know that sounds reeally hippie or whatever but thats what you feel or what i feel - and its a pretty common theme for people who do take those kinds of drugs
[Today 09:05 PM] Myst : aixel I guess you could say I got conditioned to think by sciencey stuff and I recently wondered about this but I decided I disagreed about that. I picked that way of thinking because it innately made sense to me. I couldve picked religion. or whatever else. but I picked this because it made sense to me, fell in line with my way of seeing reality.
[Today 09:06 PM] Myst : aixel if you can decide for yourself what way of thinking you subscribe to then thats not conditioning or brainwashing, is how I see it
[Today 09:06 PM] Myst : now social expectations and norms are a different topic again
[Today 09:07 PM] Myst : I'm sure I'm conditioned there somewhat but I dont see the real problem in that.. not strongly conditioned with it and it's not really relevant in terms of seeing objective reality or not, to me anyway
[Today 09:07 PM] aixelsyd : i'm thinking on a less conscious level, like how things are interpreted before you even realize it
[Today 09:07 PM] Myst : what sort of things, aixel?
[Today 09:08 PM] Myst : inumbra: well you dont always (=not constantly) have to go for a goal directly related to survival. so then you can take your time focusing on everything without being selective if you want.

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the funniest part....the funniest part is those quotes don't even capture the amount of smiley emoticons she uses in the chat.

no beta on earth would cap off so many of their shouts with one smiley emoticon after another. that's insane.

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Yeah I didn't know what was up with that; I messaged him back asking what the point of it was but he never replied. I don't know you that well so I'm not in a position to say what type you are or aren't, from the way he laid it out he might have a point(though being ILE I tend to entertain notions very easily regardless of their relation to reality) but he seemed weirdly preoccupied with it. You know yourself better than anyone else, anyway, so it's up to you, in the end.

I didn't realise this had been going on for a while, I would have contacted you about it if I had known it was this extensive, but I've been a bit preoccupied with finals. I hope he stops bothering you, and good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aspherical

Yeah I didn't know what was up with that; I messaged him back asking what the point of it was but he never replied. I don't know you that well so I'm not in a position to say what type you are or aren't, from the way he laid it out he might have a point(though being ILE I tend to entertain notions very easily regardless of their relation to reality) but he seemed weirdly preoccupied with it. You know yourself better than anyone else, anyway, so it's up to you, in the end.

I didn't realise this had been going on for a while, I would have contacted you about it if I had known it was this extensive, but I've been a bit preoccupied with finals. I hope he stops bothering you, and good luck.

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Heh well good luck with the finals and no worries. As for the bolded being the reason for you thinking he *might* have a point, lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McBain

After some extended time speaking with you @Myst, I think what might be throwing a lot of people off in your typing and hence perhaps what might be attributed to this misunderstanding with kill4me (granted, he's not a particularly easy person to deal with) is that you could be on the Autism spectrum. I think that it's true what you said before, you have difficulty reading between the lines -- especially when it comes to people. Your constant need for clarification on things (i.e. asking a lot of questions to the point of unintentionally annoying the other person or perhaps the multiple PMs) might be further evidence of this. You're also frank, straightforward, and pretty damned honest (making the assumption that others ought to be this way also) in a way that could be in line with such an observation. This is mainly a hunch and I could be totally off in this speculation. I am not a psychologist and haven't actually met you so don't take my word as bond.

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Thanks for the input, that hunch is off tho'.

It's true I don't bother trying to read between the lines in writing. Offline it's easier to see the entire context because you have metacommunication there so I don't need to ask questions much

Over the past exchanges I've been honing in to SLE-Ti (very strong Ti subtype) so/sx 7w8. Whenever there were any hiccups in conversation the main emotion I picked up on was frustration rather than any anger or emotional reactivity (frustration types are E-one, four, and seven). In general felt like positive triad + rejection mix, verbally contentious but at the same time readily forgiving and easy-going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silke

Over the past exchanges I've been honing in to SLE-Ti (very strong Ti subtype) so/sx 7w8. Whenever there were any hiccups in conversation the main emotion I picked up on was frustration rather than any anger or emotional reactivity (frustration types are E-one, four, and seven). In general felt like positive triad + rejection mix, verbally contentious but at the same time readily forgiving and easy-going.

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Heh I do get irritated easily and then if the obstacle stays in my way -in this case prolonged comms hiccup- it will turn into anger. You only saw the first phase yep.

Where do you see soc-first though, I'm so soc-last it hurts. ?!

Thanks for adding your analysis. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myst

Heh I do get irritated easily and then if the obstacle stays in my way -in this case prolonged comms hiccup- it will turn into anger. You only saw the first phase yep.

Where do you see soc-first though, I'm so soc-last it hurts. ?!

Thanks for adding your analysis. :)

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Your Sx first duals are more intense, bitchy, and annoying than you. check out aylen, if you wanna know what So last Sx looks like on here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amber

Your Sx first duals are more intense, bitchy, and annoying than you. check out aylen, if you wanna know what So last Sx looks like on here.

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I've talked to @Aylen and she makes sense to me :p

Thing is what soc-first instinctual stacking constitutes is a strong focus on social area of life, an interest in the social situation/dynamics. Don't really have a whole lot of it. Regardless of how nice I sound instead of bitchy :p Heh

whatever, dude, obviously something is broken in you if you keep fucking raining on here all that nice anger-less socially-pleasing emo lining and don't get it why you're e7 so/sx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amber

whatever, dude, obviously something is broken in you if you keep fucking raining on here all that nice anger-less socially-pleasing emo and don't get it why you're e7 so/sx

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Lol am I seeing Ne PoLR expressed via these Fi personal remarks?

Lol sure currently I'm anger-less :p The smileys don't exactly make one emo though. Chalk it up to bad habit :p

As for the E7, I considered it seriously a while ago but I did not relate to not being able to be satisfied and content etc. & I already explained about the instinctual stackings.

The smileys don't exactly make one emo though. Chalk it up to bad habit


exactly. The real in-depth, but highly self-aware "emo" are Sexual types. Check out that Sx/so Hussey SEE dude I posted to see how animated and passionate that comes across.
You are only using strictly positive emoticons out of Social habit ...kinda mechanically ... to smooth your way with the many others.

I see SLE over LSI.

Fe HA vs Fi Role
"You are only using strictly positive emoticons out of Social habit ...kinda mechanically ... to smooth your way with the many others." - Amber
I would actually say this is more likely to be Fe HA than Fi Role (not replying directly to you, Amber, but I do like this way of putting it). Fe in general is more about the outward expression of emotions whereas Fi is the direct psychological bond between two people. Perhaps you use smileys to cover up Fi PoLR? I tend to see people over-use HA (mechanically) to cover up PoLR.

Extraim
Although you respond well to other's initiative, you take a lot of initiative on your own. You ask a lot of follow up questions and naturally pursue people. I mean that in a good way. You don't let relations fall apart, just because the other person isn't making enough contact on their own. I'm not sure where McBain sees autism...completely off base to me.
Anyway I read the tone totally different in my head.

Ti creative
Speaking of which. I see the follow up questions as more of an excuse to play with Ti creative. More food to create new frameworks out of or tinker the one you already have. Although LSI has high dimensional Ti and can alter systems too, I would think LSI is more likely to "create a system" and back it up staunchly (due to Ne PoLR and a strong, but subtle Si). Compare LSI to their look-a-like ESI who stands strong in what they feel is right, sometimes regardless of consequences (part of why a lot of people admire them). You are consistently open to the feedback of others, even though you might verbally spar with them before accepting conclusions.

I realize Si has different meaning in Socionics compared to MBTI, but in some ways you end up at similar conclusions. Strong Si = weak Ne. So by the Ne definition in socionics (latent potential, ability to consider latent potential of many alternatives), you end up with someone who has difficulty navigating such territory on their own.

When Myst asks or responds to questions, she does so in a very thorough way. Doesn't matter if it is related to her type, someone else's or something else altogether. The key phrase here appears to be "gaining an understanding". Works both ways, even if you switch the words (in red, awkward wording), however Myst seems more likely to deliver explanations rather than seek explanations (aka Ti HA not likely).

Wikisocion Golihov Ti description below:
Likes to deliver (to hear) long, detailed, creative explanations, (from) excellent teacher or instructor, "I will explain (listen) for as long as they will listen (explain), until I'm 100% sure that everyone (I) understood everything." Asking him (others) a question sometimes you will be listening (explaining) to an answer for hours. Sometimes he simply looks for someone to speak (learn) about his understanding of something (escaping such a situation can be difficult, unless one tells him so directly). Something similar can be observed with objective logic, Te, as a second function, but here the emphasis is not on providing facts but rather on others gaining an understanding. For this reason, at times his explanations are simplified and delivered as if for little children. Such person is constantly looking for an audience (teacher) with questions (ideas/answers), but he explains material not in terms of knowledge, but from the standpoint of how he understands it, that is more lucidly and meticulously. He may gravitate towards a field where something has not been studied and understood before, may start exploring unknown for him spheres in which he has no qualifications, since this will allows him to develop and expand the scope of "understanding", which is very tempting for Ti as creative function.

Sensing
Do I really need to elaborate? OP doesn't have any doubts about this and I don't see many people objecting either.

Se vs Si
Harder for me to explain this one, but OP seems to be Se valuing over Si valuing to me. She speaks directly, doesn't shy away from conflict (sometimes will even invite possible confrontation, see beginning of thread) and doesn't seem to be focused on her physical internal state. The information is still there, but OP picks Se as her primary focus every time.

Enneagram
Not many ideas here. I could see 3, 6, 7 and 8 as possibilities. 1 and 9 maybe, but doubt it. No idea on variants.