I like how 2 fresh users are redoing the world here :pompom::pompom::pompom:
More blood please!
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I like how 2 fresh users are redoing the world here :pompom::pompom::pompom:
More blood please!
For fuck's sake SOMEONE wrote something specific.
Thank you kind sir. I'll take note of your words as I continue my research. :biggrin:
All I saw was calm and diligent. Not much activity. That is still said about the IEI instead.
Please explain.Quote:
-Different function definitions (especially w/ Se/Si)
Yes? :shifty:Quote:
-PoLR vs. Inferior Functions in MBTI
Explain this especially. :thinking:Quote:
-J/j P/p, both pairs that identify qualities and impart their own explanations of manifestations (attributes) of each differently.
No, this is a common misconception. Te second function is not about potentcy, but about focus and prefference.Quote:
leading most INTJs to believe that it's their introversion that's responsible for the gap in the potency of their Te function.
It's not your second function because you'll less able to use it, but because you'll be more likely to use Ni to generate bottom line principles and insights before using Te to collect data and back up your shit.
Te can be just as strong in INTJ and ENTJ.
Same thing is noted in MBTI, only more indirectly and more imprecisely.Quote:
In socionics, this is different. Each type uses Te towards different ends, effectively creating "versions" of the employed functions.
I do relate to a lot of EII description as well as IEI, but the functions (as well as Reinin dychotomies) make it, or break it for me, because I see them both as the only stable part in a bunch of generalizations, both MBTI and Socionics-wise. (Even if the function descriptions are different, I still know I'm a socionics Ni dominant, Fe creative, just like I use NiFe as MBTI INFJ.)Quote:
I'd say conversion is not easy, overall. It is not uncommon for people to say that they had to unlearn one to learn the other. It is also not uncommon to see people who denounce MBTI conversions of their type, often stating that they do not relate to their MBTI "equivalent"
This is not the issue with socionics, but MBTI it seems. MBTI is so watered down and messed with, descriptions are being ruined and we end up with improper behavior-function relations, so function based typing (MBTI) is a huge gap away from a very specific description based typing, with function definition, alone in and of itself, taking second place (socionics).
The more you post @lapa83 the more I see that you need to back up your knowledge base :)
Not that I am saying you are dumb but you ask to specify (or should I say to chew for you) basics.
Do not be a lazy ass, read a bit of the theory for your own sake :hug:
Of course I'm not dumb. (At least not right here and for this. I can be dumb as hell.)
I'm uneducated. There's a difference.
And I'm asking questions in order to educate myself.
But how are you noticing that only now? :shrug:
I have been asking questions and noting I know socionics in a limited amount since we started.
The only thing I knew for sure is that veult is MBTI INFP and that there are hordes of those mistyped "INFJ"s claiming to be INFJ and EII in socionics too.
All I had from the start is noticing of veult's FiTe, MBTI knowledge and having my generalization about transition backed up.
But if I don't learn and have things explained to me, from their perspective and relation to socionics, by people in a "science" about people, I'll learn very little.
If I wanted just jokes and laughs alone I could have gone on Facebook. :confused2:
And if I wanted just reading of a textbook, I could have gone on Wikipedia. :shrug:
Nan I noticed it before but I am an adept of leaving benefits of doubt ;)
When a person is uneducated she grabs her ass and starts to learn the shit to have her own opinion instead of waiting till somebody else with chew it all for her.
It's actually super cool to be able to understand things on your own, try it you will love it since you are a Ti user :biggrin:
@lapa83, what was your question again? :)
Scroll.
That's not giving one the benefit of the doubt. That's being blind to what one is obviously and indisputably writing.
I am doing it. I want to also have people here back their shit up for me to be able to challenge it on logic and consistency basis. That's also Ti.Quote:
When a person is uneducated she grabs her ass and starts to learn the shit to have her own opinion instead of waiting till somebody else with chew it all for her.
It's actually super cool to be able to understand things on your own, try it you will love it since you are a Ti user :biggrin:
Don't send me to cram school. Only idiots think that's the best way to learn and form opinion.
Chill and stop insulting people ffs lol
You sound like @Phaedrus
It's no problem; I enjoy this stuff, but my 2 cents: don't get tooooo far into typology where it overly structures your interactions with people. Not to say these theories have no validity, but there are a lot of people who seem to "lay it on thick." There's an "ISTJ" on PerC who attributes nearly every foible in economics to "feeler logic." Yeah..Quote:
]For fuck's sake SOMEONE wrote something specific.
Thank you kind sir. I'll take note of your words as I continue my research. :biggrin:
It's really hard to say either way, as neither type is really known for activity, especially in comparison with other types.Quote:
All I saw was calm and diligent. Not much activity. That is still said about the IEI instead.
It depends on how you construct inactivity. IEIs would certainly not be inactive in the mind and with their emotions; they'd probably be active in these realms.
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/model_a/
The idea here is that Ni running rampant can provide such stimulation as to ignore stimulation through action, hence their desire for Se-bases. Furthermore, EII is process oriented. They want to lay out plans. IEI is result oriented; they kind of just want to "get there, already." Also, the Delta Quadra is a bit more "productivity" focused than Betas (Sorry for the lack of quotes; my browser is working funnily with copy/paste)Quote:
As a base function, Ni generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with leading Ni may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events. - See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i...h.536XxoXM.dpu
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/quadras/
As to which is more active, it's hard to really nail directly. In general, the delta quadra is known more for work ethic in the traditional sense than levity. But consider this: activity doesn't mean fruitful activity. EIIs are described as having plans that are later disregarded due to perfectionism. Their ideals can be so lofty as to never accomplish much, despite activity.
http://understandmyersbriggs.blogspo...functions.htmlQuote:
Please explain.
This was something I was recently corrected on here. Se is described as more of "experiencing without processing in the moment," in a way, mindfullness. In socionics, this can be Si, as well (refer to a recent post where I was corrected; it should be in my last 4 posts or so). In socionics, Se is the ability to apply pressure. So in essence, socionics Se/Si are convolved together in MBTI. They are more decoupled and delinated in socionics.
It depends on a bit of interpretation: do you link an inferior function to that which is ingored but desired? Then it may relate to soci. Do you link the inferior function to the function that causes the most stress (some MBTI interpretations do this)? Then it differs fom the soci PoLR (IEI have Te PoLR, not Se PoLR).Quote:
-PoLR vs. Inferior Functions in MBTI Yes? :shifty:
I think you already know this; I may have just worded it poorly:Quote:
-J/j P/p, both pairs that identify qualities and impart their own explanations of manifestations (attributes) of each differently.
J/P work for extroverts in soci/MBTI, I believe. In MBTI, this has to do with whether the person's primary extroverted function makes "judgements" or "percieves." In soci, this gets thrown out the window probably more than anything else. It has to do with rationality and irrationality, both of which are gauged by the base function. For example, if your IEI typing is correct, you are an introverted irrational (IXXp). This comes with a lot more w/ regards to mood, pace, introspection, and general perception of life than J/P in MBTI might indicate.
By potency, I meant how far it adheres to MBTI-interpretations of Cognitive Functions.Quote:
leading most INTJs to believe that it's their introversion that's responsible for the gap in the potency of their Te function.
http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm this is lauded on PerC
If you go through it and check more "Fe"-laden traits, you'll be an ENFJ. If you go with Ni more than Fe, you'll be an INFJ. In soci, they deal more with the variances of Fe. I emphasize more because there are sites like TypeLogic that make attempts to interpret how these functions act in different slots.
Yeah, you can go "without it" in MBTI. In socio, it has to be disambiguated for each type. Personally, I find ignoring these ambiguities an atrocity and not conducive to finding out ones type. The number of "I'm not very productive with work; am I not an INTJ?"-type threads are astounding. In soci, this is explained far better.Quote:
Same thing is noted in MBTI, only more indirectly and more imprecisely.
The dominant function is probably the best to go on. Ni seems pretty much the same in both camps. You may relate to EII because, guess what, IEIs are quite adept at Fi. as it's a demonstrative function.Quote:
I do relate to a lot of EII description as well as IEI, but the functions (as well as Reinin dychotomies) make it, or break it for me, because I see them both as the only stable part in a bunch of generalizations, both MBTI and Socionics-wise. (Even if the function descriptions are different, I still know I'm a socionics Ni dominant, Fe creative, just like I use NiFe as MBTI INFJ.)
You seem fairly intelligent. This theory is to MBTI what calculus is to algerbra. The MBTI is not very resolute. It throws out fidelity for broader appeal. And I'm not an expert, and as such, if there are any disparities, I apologize in advance.
I literally joined this month and have just been reading links people gave me in chat. Have you thought of coming there?
TLDR Version:
:yup: And it will probably stay that way because:Quote:
This is not the issue with socionics, but MBTI it seems. MBTI is so watered down and messed with, descriptions are being ruined and we end up with improper behavior-function relations, so function based typing (MBTI) is a huge gap away from a very specific description based typing, with function definition, alone in and of itself, taking second place (socionics).
--Most people don't speak Russian, and the geniuses that champion the theory write in such a complex way that few with "average" Russian skills can re-interpret it.
--It takes a lot more thought. It's not that people can't think in this way; it's that big buisness doesn't want to waste time thinking. They want a nice, boxed, easy to administer test.
--For whatever reason, practical or impractical, many psychologists view this as a moot intellectual endeavor, probably because of the Forer effect and related studies.
I have indeed that awful blind spot, I tend to see light even in the most vapid and ignorant individuals.
No I would suggest to learn somewhere where they would teach you how to ask for explanations properly and how to argument without insulting people :content:Quote:
I am doing it. I want to also have people here back their shit up for me to be able to challenge it on logic and consistency basis. That's also Ti.
Don't send me to cram school. Only idiots think that's the best way to learn and form opinion.
Because that's not what is associated with a Ti user worthy of the name.
So I will leave it for now. I like to win only if I have an equal adversary, it’s not fun to show one’s superiority in front of somebody’s ignorance.
Cheers:blow: