Type this new acquaintance

Here are some first impressions based on two or three times of interaction. I have my own thoughts, but I want to float this out there and see where your heads are at. What type does this sound like?


Single words/terms:
Hardworking, assertive, straightforward, logical, efficient, judgmental.

More in-depth description:

Works long hours and goes long periods without vacation time. He succeeds in high-pressure environments (might thrive it it, too, but can't tell yet).

Jokes loudly and forcefully at times, more so than I'm comfortable with. And sometime he laughs at things I don't find exactly funny. Like he'll recount how somebody said something funny, or reacted in a funny way to him, and I just don't get it. That makes me feel awkward, and I don't think I respond how he'd prefer. It could be just that he's a bad story-teller, too.

Feelings seem somewhat foreign; he is not emotionally adept or eloquent. He remarked once that one time he got on his roommate's case about household chores, left for awhile, and came back to find his roommate "a basket case," which completely surprised him. He said that was one point where he realized people have different reactions emotionally to things. (I successfully kept myself from doing this :bashhead:)

He has thus developed a sort of skeptical phobia of offending people. It's partly a sort of "why are people like this? It's stupid and illogical" and a fearful feeling of not wanting to push people away or accidentally hurt them.

He recognizes that working hard and being dedicated to greatness has its costs, including relationally. But he seems to crave relationships and friendships anyway, just doesn't know how to get it to happen. That said, he didn't seem to really accept many of my opinions and suggestions on the topic, like when I tried to explain why individuals might be making particular choices (that he disagrees with).

One time I told him that women very often dress up to impress each other more than they do men. He gave me a doubtful look but didn't contradict me outright. Then he went on to talk about how he wished someone would write a book called, "Women, for dummies." I have no idea if my concept stuck at all.

I've had to explain some of the things I said several times, things that seemed obvious to me. For example, that having a solid family helps prepare one for a good marriage / long-term relationship. He just kind of looked at me blankly, then said something like "Sorry, I'm a little dumb. Could you please say that again? I can't understand what you mean." I was kind of flabbergasted for a moment because why would I have to explain that? It's so obvious! How does one break down an innately natural way of thinking or doing? But I tried, using examples and analogies. He got some of the parts of the breakdown, but I'm not sure if the whole original concept got across. At least he patiently listened. That's happened a few times.

Moral / ethical inconsistencies drive him nuts. He told a story about two of his friends, which illustrates this: A heavier weight girl, not obese but not in shape, broke up with her boyfriend because he was overweight. He developed a terrible opinion of that girl, not because of the choice per se but because she was being a hypocrite.

He recounted at different times examples of him saying what he really thought getting him into relational trouble, which seemed mostly puzzling to him.

He said he'd stop hanging out with anyone who'd ever done drugs (at which point I tried not to go :stroke:). Doesn't like art (can't tell yet if that's lack of proper exposure or actual dislike - I hope the former). Doesn't consider himself sharp-witted. Really good at math, though that could be practice.

Good at physically demanding things, like sports and fitness. Considers himself a germaphobe. Reacts badly to people who invade his personal space.

Has a lot of disdain for people who don't know what they are doing. Will plainly say he thinks people are idiots or incompetent.

My initial thought was LSI, SLE second.

Forgot to mention, please keep quotes of the original to a minimum ( @William ). I might edit later for the sake of anonymous anonymity. :-)

This person doesn't sound ESE at all. My guess is LSE or LSI.

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Originally Posted by darya

This person doesn't sound ESE at all. My guess is LSE or LSI.

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Woah, who's the creep in your avatar?

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Originally Posted by Olly From Wally World

Woah, who's the creep in your avatar?

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:lol: I have no idea, it was a drunk decision.

You could ask him to sit a personality test.

I could be wrong of course but generic information doesn't necessarily compute to a psychological type, and I suspect you have as much skills as any other to be able to get an idea of his type.

Unless of course, your perception is coloured by .... attraction :) .... but probably not lol

My guess is LSE, particularly if he's all into that "formality" bullshit.

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Originally Posted by William

He seems to definitely be a Sensor and he seems Fi-devaluing/Fe-valuing.

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In what ways do you see this manifesting, particularly the Fi-devaluing?

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Originally Posted by Roro

My initial thought was LSI, SLE second.

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Originally Posted by darya

This person doesn't sound ESE at all. My guess is LSE or LSI.

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Any particular reasons stand out for either of you?

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Originally Posted by William

I edited my post for you per your request.

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Thank you :)

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Originally Posted by Words

You could ask him to sit a personality test.

I could be wrong of course but generic information doesn't necessarily compute to a psychological type, and I suspect you have as much skills as any other to be able to get an idea of his type.

Unless of course, your perception is coloured by .... attraction :) .... but probably not lol

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I've only asked a few family members and a couple of close friends to take personality tests. He's a long way from that level.

As I indicated in my OP, I do indeed have my own ideas, but I want to know what everyone here thinks. I enjoy learning what goes on in people's heads and how they reach conclusions. Sometimes angles I hadn't considered get brought to light.

I assume you mean attraction in the romantic/sexual way, which is not the case here (not yet anyway - I'm cautious with my emotions). Sometimes individuals will strike me as particularly interesting, and it becomes easy for me to focus on and delve into who they are, which makes descriptions like the above easy to do. That is another form of attraction I suppose.


I've done descriptions like this several times over the years. When/if I have time, I might switch gears here to describe my more subjective reactions to him.

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Originally Posted by Cubozoan

My guess is LSE, particularly if he's all into that "formality" bullshit.

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Hm, what kind of formality do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Minde

In what ways do you see this manifesting, particularly the Fi-devaluing?




Any particular reasons stand out for either of you?



Thank you :)



I've only asked a few family members and a couple of close friends to take personality tests. He's a long way from that level.

As I indicated in my OP, I do indeed have my own ideas, but I want to know what everyone here thinks. I enjoy learning what goes on in people's heads and how they reach conclusions. Sometimes angles I hadn't considered get brought to light.

I assume you mean attraction in the romantic/sexual way, which is not the case here (not yet anyway - I'm cautious with my emotions). Sometimes individuals will strike me as particularly interesting, and it becomes easy for me to focus on and delve into who they are, which makes descriptions like the above easy to do. That is another form of attraction I suppose.


I've done descriptions like this several times over the years. When/if I have time, I might switch gears here to describe my more subjective reactions to him.



Hm, what kind of formality do you mean?

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I seen some of me in him fwiw haha

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Originally Posted by Minde

Any particular reasons stand out for either of you?

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From just the description you've given, he seems more Se > Si valuing. Obvious keywords: thriving in high-pressure environments, straightforward. Although, as William mentioned, a SLE germaphobe seems a bit strange. But this could very well be do to other 'issues', or maybe even enneagram/stacking (1 or 3 sp?).

Also Fe > Fi. The more I think about it, the less likely I believe SLE to be. He doesn't seem Fi-polr; has some awareness over personal issues (not wanting to offend others) and boundaries.

The way you wrote of him steered me away from considering Delta ST. What you wrote wasn't necessarily bad, I just got vibes that you would likely be more tense than comfortable if placed in a locked room with him for several hours.

Could even be some very :Se: ISFj.

@Cubozoan, you wrote a response earlier that I liked but didn't have time to respond to. What happened?

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Originally Posted by Words

I seen some of me in him fwiw haha

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I can see that, too, yes.

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Originally Posted by Roro

From just the description you've given, he seems more Se > Si valuing. Obvious keywords: thriving in high-pressure environments, straightforward. Although, as William mentioned, a SLE germaphobe seems a bit strange. But this could very well be do to other 'issues', or maybe even enneagram/stacking (1 or 3 sp?).

Also Fe > Fi. The more I think about it, the less likely I believe SLE to be. He doesn't seem Fi-polr; has some awareness over personal issues (not wanting to offend others) and boundaries.

The way you wrote of him steered me away from considering Delta ST. What you wrote wasn't necessarily bad, I just got vibes that you would likely be more tense than comfortable if placed in a locked room with him for several hours.

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Awesome, thank you. This is a great segue in to my own personal reactions.

So, obviously some of how he relates to others is :doh: to me. I don't think less of him, though, because I don't detect much if any malice. In fact, as you point out, he has paranoia about messing up. That's endearing and makes me want to help him (though he hasn't shown signs of trusting me to know what I'm talking about in that regard). Also, I'm pretty sure I do things that make other people shake their heads at me, too, haha.

How I thus far have felt around him: safe, comfortable, sometimes puzzled, often entertained. His honest perceptions and judgments were sometimes rather hilarious to me (tried not to laugh in his face, though). Once I felt like I had to step in and solve something (directly related to the person who was invading his personal space - it was a weird situation). Sometimes I have felt as if he was waiting for me to choose a direction in terms of what to do / talk about. Since I don't know him, I can't tell if that was habit, a test, or really what he wanted.

Sometimes he'd ask questions that I consider too personal, which would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable but I'd answer anyway to an extent (it's my habit with everybody). If I did raise up a boundary, however, he wouldn't push at it; that was nice, and also refreshing. Sometimes he's assertively done something, which I find pleasant. E.g. once he said "you should come with us" to a dinner thing some people were doing that I was too shy to invite myself to join. (that sounds silly saying it aloud here...)

Sometimes the way he tried to tease me a few times made me uncomfortable, in that I didn't know how to respond. It feels related to how I couldn't latch on to the humor of his funny stories.

In one sense, I'm kind of afraid that my relaxedness with regard to accepting people (despite what some on here might think of me!) plus my own plentitude of mistakes will inspire disgust and he'll push me away as a potential friend. Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. I like that stuff, but I don't do it all the time.

To me, his honesty is refreshing. I can ask a question and get a straight answer. It's wonderful. Though, of course, I have to be emotionally prepared to accept the answer as is, even if it isn't comfortable. Like many strong qualities, it's a double-edged sword.


So, yeah, feelings. Mostly positive at this point. So far he seems like a worthwhile human to keep around. I'd probably survive just fine locked in a room with him for hours, especially at this point because I find him entertaining. Not sure how he'd feel about that, though.



Awhile back I met a girl who was similarly fascinating to me, but while we're now good friends I've lost the drive to describe her. I ended up typing her EIE. That's not relevant to this discussion, but I felt like saying it.

I see LSI or SLE but most likely LSI.

I think this person is LSE. SLE isn't a possibility at all, I don't know where people are getting it from. He's obviously a judger. LSE's joke around a lot too, they are often kings and queens of bad office jokes that nobody else finds funny.

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Originally Posted by darya

I think this person is LSE. SLE isn't a possibility at all, I don't know where people are getting it from. He's obviously a judger. LSE's joke around a lot too, they are often kings and queens of bad office jokes that nobody else finds funny.

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Start of Fe in SLE from wikisocion, in terms of telling jokes

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SLEs find themselves unable to adequately raise an emotionally dull atmosphere, which is why they greatly appreciate another individual proficient in this function. SLEs naturally gravitate towards warm, cheerful atmospheres. If an SLE makes a social move that doesn't get the emotional response he expects, he will feel uneasy or offended e.g. if no one laughs at a joke he tells.

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Also everyone has opinions and judges that isn't J/P j/p per se

I know you are just stating your opinion, i'm explaining how SLE can still be a possibility.

Of course quasi-identicals can seem quite similar, at least from superficial descriptions, hence them being quasi-identicals. The joys of socionics which is why I rather leave my head in the oven....well I don't really, but hey

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Originally Posted by Words

Start of Fe in SLE from wikisocion, in terms of telling jokes

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Both of these types can joke around and both can be serious - depends on the individual. I was just saying that it's not necessary that this person is Fe valuing if he jokes around the office. LSE are quite jovial ime and tell a lot of dirty jokes too.

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Also everyone has opinions and judges that isn't J/P j/p per se

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I'm not saying he's a j because he has opinions/judges at all.

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Of course quasi-identicals can seem quite similar, at least from superficial descriptions, hence them being quasi-identicals. The joys of socionics which is why I rather leave my head in the oven....well I don't really, but hey

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I agree that some quasi-identicals are difficult to discern, but usually you can detect Se leading quite quickly, particularly in males (not over text ofc).

Why I don't think this person is SLE:

He is a germaphobe

"Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. "

"Moral / ethical inconsistencies drive him nuts."

"He said he'd stop hanging out with anyone who'd ever done drugs (at which point I tried not to go :stroke:)."

SLE's have a certain pushiness to them, more aggressive stepping over boundaries than I get from this description. They're not exactly subtle people. It's difficult to imagine an EII woman be this relaxed and comfortable around a .SLE - attracted is a different story.

And LSE's also strive in high-pressure environments and can be very straight-forward. That doesn't mean Se valuing.

It's a different kind of straight-forwardness...SLE's are like bulldozers when they want something ("snap snap, move move" like a hurricane), LSE's have a nagging and preacher-ish feel to them (Why didn't you people do that, you work quicker next time, yada yada...) - SLE's are seriously scary in a physical energy kind of way, while you're never really scared of LSE, just annoyed by him.. LSE's also love to give you guilty conscience about things, SLE's don't give a shit - they just want things done their way and at time when they decided they should be done (they don't care what people did before or after) or they lose their shit - but never in a morally preacherish way, just as in my way or the highway. At least that was my experience with LSE and SLE bosses, and I've had quite a few.

My guess would be Te-LIE. Enneagram-wise he doesn't sound like the e7/e8 type covered by majority of the LIE profiles, but of superego type considering how you describe him as very hard-working and conscientious, so e1 or e6.

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Originally Posted by Minde

So, obviously some of how he relates to others is :doh: to me. I don't think less of him, though, because I don't detect much if any malice. In fact, as you point out, he has paranoia about messing up. That's endearing and makes me want to help him (though he hasn't shown signs of trusting me to know what I'm talking about in that regard). Also, I'm pretty sure I do things that make other people shake their heads at me, too, haha.

How I thus far have felt around him: safe, comfortable, sometimes puzzled, often entertained. His honest perceptions and judgments were sometimes rather hilarious to me (tried not to laugh in his face, though). Once I felt like I had to step in and solve something (directly related to the person who was invading his personal space - it was a weird situation). Sometimes I have felt as if he was waiting for me to choose a direction in terms of what to do / talk about. Since I don't know him, I can't tell if that was habit, a test, or really what he wanted.

Sometimes he'd ask questions that I consider too personal, which would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable but I'd answer anyway to an extent (it's my habit with everybody). If I did raise up a boundary, however, he wouldn't push at it; that was nice, and also refreshing. Sometimes he's assertively done something, which I find pleasant. E.g. once he said "you should come with us" to a dinner thing some people were doing that I was too shy to invite myself to join. (that sounds silly saying it aloud here...)

Sometimes the way he tried to tease me a few times made me uncomfortable, in that I didn't know how to respond. It feels related to how I couldn't latch on to the humor of his funny stories.

In one sense, I'm kind of afraid that my relaxedness with regard to accepting people (despite what some on here might think of me!) plus my own plentitude of mistakes will inspire disgust and he'll push me away as a potential friend. Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. I like that stuff, but I don't do it all the time.

To me, his honesty is refreshing. I can ask a question and get a straight answer. It's wonderful. Though, of course, I have to be emotionally prepared to accept the answer as is, even if it isn't comfortable. Like many strong qualities, it's a double-edged sword.


So, yeah, feelings. Mostly positive at this point. So far he seems like a worthwhile human to keep around. I'd probably survive just fine locked in a room with him for hours, especially at this point because I find him entertaining. Not sure how he'd feel about that, though.



Awhile back I met a girl who was similarly fascinating to me, but while we're now good friends I've lost the drive to describe her. I ended up typing her EIE. That's not relevant to this discussion, but I felt like saying it.

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A lot of this sounded like semi-duality relations: we get along great, then oops, something he says or does that feels awkward and throws the whole thing off, and you're drawn together again.
It's also likely that you have somehow compatible enneagram and instinct layouts which makes the interaction more effortless. Like a semi-duality with a bonus.

What gave me a non-LIE impression is the germophobia and the "Women for dummies" thingy, traits which I typically associate with ST types. But LIE-Te doesn't sound bad either.

delta ST 9w8 sp/so

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Originally Posted by darya

SLE's have a certain pushiness to them, more aggressive stepping over boundaries than I get from this description. They're not exactly subtle people. It's difficult to imagine an EII woman be this relaxed and comfortable around a .SLE - attracted is a different story.

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Socionics being largely a theory of relationships, I consider my level of comfort an important factor as well.

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Originally Posted by darya

It's a different kind of straight-forwardness...SLE's are like bulldozers when they want something ("snap snap, move move" like a hurricane), LSE's have a nagging and preacher-ish feel to them (Why didn't you people do that, you work quicker next time, yada yada...) - SLE's are seriously scary in a physical energy kind of way, while you're never really scared of LSE, just annoyed by him.. LSE's also love to give you guilty conscience about things, SLE's don't give a shit - they just want things done their way and at time when they decided they should be done (they don't care what people did before or after) or they lose their shit - but never in a morally preacherish way, just as in my way or the highway. At least that was my experience with LSE and SLE bosses, and I've had quite a few.

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I worked for a SLE for years, and I relate to this. My boss was very "make it be like he wants" in a physical sense. There were times he'd actually grab me and move me where he wanted me (not harshly, just in a "here, THIS is what I want" way). It took me years to stop being very intimidated by him. While I liked him well enough as a person, I'd often find myself shaking after interactions with him. And even when I did develop confidence, it was half bluff, haha. In contrast, this guy is much more on the preachy end, for sure. I have yet to find him either intimidating in the same way or annoying, though I can easily see how he'd end up rubbing some people the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by silke

My guess would be Te-LIE. Enneagram-wise he doesn't sound like the e7/e8 type covered by majority of the LIE profiles, but of superego type considering how you describe him as very hard-working and conscientious, so e1 or e6.


A lot of this sounded like semi-duality relations: we get along great, then oops, something he says or does that feels awkward and throws the whole thing off, and you're drawn together again.
It's also likely that you have somehow compatible enneagram and instinct layouts which makes the interaction more effortless. Like a semi-duality with a bonus.

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Ooh, interesting points, thanks! Also, enneagram compatibility? I've been slowly learning more about e-types; do you have any resources that talk more about the type compatibilities (or un-compatibilities)?

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Originally Posted by FDG

What gave me a non-LIE impression is the germophobia and the "Women for dummies" thingy, traits which I typically associate with ST types. But LIE-Te doesn't sound bad either.

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TBH, LIE-Te was my initial reaction after 5 minutes of my very first conversation with him.

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Originally Posted by LIIbrarian

I see LSI or SLE but most likely LSI.

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Originally Posted by Kill4Me

delta ST 9w8 sp/so

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Why?

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Originally Posted by Minde

TBH, LIE-Te was my initial reaction after 5 minutes of my very first conversation with him.

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Allright, then I guess it's a typing that makes sense. Even though I do think he sounds a bit extreme (unless he's purposefully being like that just to attract attention).

I don't get the impression that attracting attention is his goal, unless it's part of a different goal (e.g. getting a good job).

And I don't particularly see him as being exactly like you, either. He's more emphatic / jovial in written communication for one thing. (Then again, my BiL who I type as SLI apparently uses millions of emoticons when texting with his wife, so... sometimes written expression can be deceiving.)

What do you see as extreme?

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Originally Posted by Minde

And I don't particularly see him as being exactly like you, either.

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No, I agree, he doesn't sound like me given the description. Much more active with people than I normally am. You could however argue that I'm just somewhat more :Ni:.

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What do you see as extreme?

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Just going by your first description:

- He remarked once that one time he got on his roommate's case about household chores, left for awhile, and came back to find his roommate "a basket case," which completely surprised him.

- One time I told him that women very often dress up to impress each other more than they do men. He gave me a doubtful look but didn't contradict me outright. Then he went on to talk about how he wished someone would write a book called, "Women, for dummies." I have no idea if my concept stuck at all.

- Considers himself a germaphobe. Reacts badly to people who invade his personal space. Has a lot of disdain for people who don't know what they are doing. Will plainly say he thinks people are idiots or incompetent.

Sounds like a really stupid LSE. At least, the ones im familiar with. Actually reminds me of one I know. My EII friend kind of treats him like a child

It's really difficult to imagine any LIE being this stupid and simple-minded.

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Originally Posted by darya

It's really difficult to imagine any LIE being this stupid and simple-minded.

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Honestly, I would really think someone that simpleminded would be at least mildly autistic. Seems too far out to be type related, what do you think?

You guys are so mean. :( What if he has a story, a reason behind what he doesn't know or isn't good at? What if he used to be much worse, but is getting better?

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

Honestly, I would really think someone that simpleminded would be at least mildly autistic. Seems too far out to be type related, what do you think?

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But his others characteristics oppose the autism hypothesis. He's probably intelligent enough, just simple-minded, as in not seeing below the surface.

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Originally Posted by Minde

Why?

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Among the particular things that stood out to me as LSI-like:

Works long hours and goes long periods without vacation time. He succeeds in high-pressure environments (might thrive it it, too, but can't tell yet).

--> Succeeding in high pressure environments and working long periods of time suggests strong valued :Se: Sounds more decisive than judicious quadra.

Jokes loudly and forcefully at times, more so than I'm comfortable with. And sometime he laughs at things I don't find exactly funny. Like he'll recount how somebody said something funny, or reacted in a funny way to him, and I just don't get it. That makes me feel awkward, and I don't think I respond how he'd prefer. It could be just that he's a bad story-teller, too.

--> Bad story-teller suggests weaker Fe likely. Louder and more forceful humor seems more likely with beta quadra.

Feelings seem somewhat foreign; he is not emotionally adept or eloquent. He remarked once that one time he got on his roommate's case about household chores, left for awhile, and came back to find his roommate "a basket case," which completely surprised him. He said that was one point where he realized people have different reactions emotionally to things. (I successfully kept myself from doing this )

--> Sounds like weak, 1D Fe.

He has thus developed a sort of skeptical phobia of offending people. It's partly a sort of "why are people like this? It's stupid and illogical" and a fearful feeling of not wanting to push people away or accidentally hurt them.

--> Phobia of offending people- could point to Fi role function.
--> Analyze "why are people like this?" It's stupid and illogical- Sounds like it could be Ti base

I've had to explain some of the things I said several times, things that seemed obvious to me. For example, that having a solid family helps prepare one for a good marriage / long-term relationship. He just kind of looked at me blankly, then said something like "Sorry, I'm a little dumb. Could you please say that again? I can't understand what you mean." I was kind of flabbergasted for a moment because why would I have to explain that? It's so obvious! How does one break down an innately natural way of thinking or doing? But I tried, using examples and analogies. He got some of the parts of the breakdown, but I'm not sure if the whole original concept got across. At least he patiently listened. That's happened a few times.

--> Trying to make logic out of an inherently feeling sort of thing. Again logical > ethical if it wasn't obvious already. Sounds like weak N if it's a more conceptual in nature thing he isn't grasping.

Moral / ethical inconsistencies drive him nuts. He told a story about two of his friends, which illustrates this: A heavier weight girl, not obese but not in shape, broke up with her boyfriend because he was overweight. He developed a terrible opinion of that girl, not because of the choice per se but because she was being a hypocrite.

--> Okay, this could suggest strong, valued Fi. Or it could just be the Fi role function kicking in.

He recounted at different times examples of him saying what he really thought getting him into relational trouble, which seemed mostly puzzling to him.

--> Weak, unvalued Fi

Good at physically demanding things, like sports and fitness. Considers himself a germaphobe. Reacts badly to people who invade his personal space.

--> I see strong creative Se function here. Germaphobe- could be demonstrative Si?

Those were some of the things that stood out to me when reading this. Also, the overall vibe seemed like an immature LSI to me.

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Originally Posted by Minde

Why?

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because I'm pretty sure that's his type...

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Originally Posted by William

Lol no I just think he's LSI. This is funny to me, coming from a self-typed IEE. Calling your conflictor 'mildly autistic'. XD I'm guessing you don't hang around LSIs much to really hear their world views or perceptions of other people, do you?

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lol, idk, i think i'd probably steer away from someone who has a overly simplistic way of looking at people. But yeah, could be a strong bias, when Minde described him I thought "well that sounds like a thouroughly unpleasant person".

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Originally Posted by Minde

You guys are so mean. :( What if he has a story, a reason behind what he doesn't know or isn't good at? What if he used to be much worse, but is getting better?

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oh... i mean, probably. There's a reason to everything, a background to anyone. I'm not saying he's a bad person, nor that you should stay away or anything. Just that such a lack of basic social skills seems out of type range to me, but as others have pointed out it could be type related too.

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Originally Posted by darya

But his others characteristics oppose the autism hypothesis. He's probably intelligent enough, just simple-minded, as in not seeing below the surface.

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hmhm, but the mild autism spectrum people like asperges can be fairly to extremely intelligent. I'm just... idk i'd say that information preference as described in socionics imho wouldn't go as far as blatantly not understanding something at all. Seems extreme is all i'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Reficulris;1064647[/QUOTE

hmhm, but the mild autism spectrum people like asperges can be fairly to extremely intelligent. I'm just... idk i'd say that information preference as described in socionics imho wouldn't go as far as blatantly not understanding something at all. Seems extreme is all i'm saying.

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I know they are mostly intelligent. The guy doesn't sound autistic to me for other reasons.

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Originally Posted by darya

hmhm, but the mild autism spectrum people like asperges can be fairly to extremely intelligent. I'm just... idk i'd say that information preference as described in socionics imho wouldn't go as far as blatantly not understanding something at all. Seems extreme is all i'm saying.

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I know they are mostly intelligent. The guy doesn't sound autistic to me for other reasons.[/QUOTE]

ok cool, could be bias from my side like william said.

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Originally Posted by darya

But his others characteristics oppose the autism hypothesis. He's probably intelligent enough, just simple-minded, as in not seeing below the surface.

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Ah, ok, not seeing below the surface. I still haven't had a ton of interaction with him, but I'd say he might have to try harder to look beyond the obvious, where it might be easier for most others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Seems like Ti-way of classifying things to the extreme. Typical Beta-style of 'you're either with us or against us', with no in-between, or understanding the different shades/complexities of people like Deltas do. Also his remarking about people having different emotional reactions to things sounds like a conscious Fi role function coming out, verbalizing something that is obvious to an EII like you.

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I didn't get a "with us or against us" vibe, but I could have just overlooked it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

LSEs are generally too process-driven to care that much if they offend someone. They're too apathetic to develop a real phobia.

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Offending "people", no, they and SLIs don't seem as bothered about that. Offending individuals they like - well, they can care more and be more proactive about that. Or at least it is a worry, ime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Would be kind of weird for an LSE or SLI or perhaps any Fi-valuer to want to read a book about people's emotions in order to understand them better. Seems Ti-valuing in a way of wanting to categorize people again.

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I think I'd have to disagree with this. I frequently read books and articles on how people think, feel, and work internally. Some of my favorite classes in school had to do with psychology. In the last year alone I've grown emotionally myself, and I know I have a long way to go in that as well as in how to better interact with others. I look to all sorts of resources to help me with that, including books. In fact, right now I'm finishing a book called Just Listen, which I plan to reread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

And the use of the word "dummies" seems he values people's intelligence and how quick they are to pick up on things, and it's like he feels offended if you share something he doesn't know. Regardless of type, seems like he has a lower self-image and doesn't want to be shown up by a girl. It's also like he doesn't want you to be superior to him, in an Se-valuing way. It's sort of funny where any attempt you make to share something insightful or teach him something is underhandedly dismissed.

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The "for dummies" is a reference to a whole series of books that aim to explain concepts in a particularly easy-to-digest fashion (e.g. Home Maintenance for Dummies).

I do agree with the lower self-image. And it makes me sad because I think he could be a lot more and a lot better in his weak areas if he stopped beating himself up about them and "having negative self-talk" as they say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Again, I doubt this is Ne-valuing, or open-mindedness about the different shades of people. Seems like Beta classifying others to the extreme.

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It's something I'm going to keep watching for, when I get another chance.

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Originally Posted by William

Signs of being a sensor in general. Territoriality around personal space is one of the direct definitions of being a sensor from the Russians, I believe.

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Unless you're also an oldest child - "stop touching my stuff!"

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Originally Posted by William

And then, of the ST types, I wouldn't see an LSE as that paranoid of people's perceptions, and an LSE with weak ethics would be much more appreciative of your efforts to help/enlighten them in certain ways.

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Yes, I imagine a LSE would, and ones that trust me do. However, it's not always the case. I've gotten in significant fights with an LSE or two over their forceful rejection of my opinions. And many Te types seem to require trust-building before they'll take what people say to heart. Like I need to prove I know what I'm talking about. With practical things, that's pretty easy because facts are pretty straightforward. When it comes to people things, though, that's not as concrete so it can take longer and I need to wait for the right situation to present itself. Which I might not even be aware of as a situation wherein I either prove myself or fail.

Also, when you critique a person in their weak spot, it can be painful, and Te's don't always respond well to people hurting them... Actually, make that any person...


I'm not arguing for or against LSI at this point.




Thanks, @LIIbrarian, that was a great breakdown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

lol, idk, i think i'd probably steer away from someone who has a overly simplistic way of looking at people. But yeah, could be a strong bias, when Minde described him I thought "well that sounds like a thouroughly unpleasant person".

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It could be he sounds so unpleasant to you because I described the things that stood out to me, the things that struck me as different or odd or a strong feature. Like the (to me) humorous non-understanding of emotions. Or it could be because he actually is an unpleasant person. Either way I tend to have a tolerance for unintentional brusqueness. (Malice or not caring at all is another story.) As far as I can tell, his intentions toward myself at least has been benevolent, and I see him as such toward others, too.




Ok, so here's a little more NTR background that might shed additional light: He's an immigrant to the US; he was raised with that goal, essentially, and he's had to work his tail off to be where he is now, which is (as far as I can tell) middle to upper middle class in America. The focus on excellence precluded many relationships, which he's just recently beginning to consider a possibility now that he's more or less "made it." It takes a LOT of focus and work to do what he's done.

His mother was the main female influence in his life, again up until recently. Despite all the (legitimate) equality talk, women still tend to be more emotionally sophisticated then men, particularly in some cultures; it takes a balance of feminine and masculine input to make for a well-rounded individual, imo.


I've debated this with myself, and my gut says "be careful, but go ahead," so if anyone is curious to do a VI I can PM a photo or two. Maybe a short video that I pirated as well.

I think the background description is helpful to understand some of the rougher traits in combination with an apparent stronger emotivity in text, mmmh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FDG

I think the background description is helpful to understand some of the rougher traits in combination with an apparent stronger emotivity in text, mmmh.

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Does it alter your opinion of his type?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minde

@Cubozoan, you wrote a response earlier that I liked but didn't have time to respond to. What happened?



I can see that, too, yes.



Awesome, thank you. This is a great segue in to my own personal reactions.

So, obviously some of how he relates to others is :doh: to me. I don't think less of him, though, because I don't detect much if any malice. In fact, as you point out, he has paranoia about messing up. That's endearing and makes me want to help him (though he hasn't shown signs of trusting me to know what I'm talking about in that regard). Also, I'm pretty sure I do things that make other people shake their heads at me, too, haha.

How I thus far have felt around him: safe, comfortable, sometimes puzzled, often entertained. His honest perceptions and judgments were sometimes rather hilarious to me (tried not to laugh in his face, though). Once I felt like I had to step in and solve something (directly related to the person who was invading his personal space - it was a weird situation). Sometimes I have felt as if he was waiting for me to choose a direction in terms of what to do / talk about. Since I don't know him, I can't tell if that was habit, a test, or really what he wanted.

Sometimes he'd ask questions that I consider too personal, which would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable but I'd answer anyway to an extent (it's my habit with everybody). If I did raise up a boundary, however, he wouldn't push at it; that was nice, and also refreshing. Sometimes he's assertively done something, which I find pleasant. E.g. once he said "you should come with us" to a dinner thing some people were doing that I was too shy to invite myself to join. (that sounds silly saying it aloud here...)

Sometimes the way he tried to tease me a few times made me uncomfortable, in that I didn't know how to respond. It feels related to how I couldn't latch on to the humor of his funny stories.

In one sense, I'm kind of afraid that my relaxedness with regard to accepting people (despite what some on here might think of me!) plus my own plentitude of mistakes will inspire disgust and he'll push me away as a potential friend. Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. I like that stuff, but I don't do it all the time.

To me, his honesty is refreshing. I can ask a question and get a straight answer. It's wonderful. Though, of course, I have to be emotionally prepared to accept the answer as is, even if it isn't comfortable. Like many strong qualities, it's a double-edged sword.


So, yeah, feelings. Mostly positive at this point. So far he seems like a worthwhile human to keep around. I'd probably survive just fine locked in a room with him for hours, especially at this point because I find him entertaining. Not sure how he'd feel about that, though.



Awhile back I met a girl who was similarly fascinating to me, but while we're now good friends I've lost the drive to describe her. I ended up typing her EIE. That's not relevant to this discussion, but I felt like saying it.

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I ranted into the clouds again.

Basically I think Te-dom is shoddy and deliberately artificial and that's stupid personal bias. Think nothing of it.

LONG UPDATE:


I got a chance to spend more time with this person in a group last evening. I still can't pin his type down, which in itself is perhaps a clue. And also kind of frustrating.

Context: One of my friends' birthday celebrations. This guy is close friends with my friend, basically best buds.

At this point, it'll probably help if I start giving the characters identifiers, so we'll call OP guy OPG and his best friend (my friend) K.

Some back story: I've known K for less than a year, and only really started communicating with him when OPG gave me his number as a part of a logistics coordinating thing. K and I hit it off pretty quickly and have a good rapport. I easily put him in either Alpha or Delta, and he's probably got Ne in the ego block. And probably IJ. So INXj by process of elimination. We have similar interests and similar thought processes, though not exactly the same, obviously.

Anyway, it was K's birthday party and OPG was a co-planner. OPG took on a lot of host mannerisms, making sure everybody was introduced to at least someone and integrated into a conversation, even if he was the one who had to do the conversing. He loves talking, so it didn't seem too much a hardship, lol. He was way more host-like than the introverted K.

He also did a good amount of take-charge-y type things, though he didn't always do a solid follow-through. He did a lot of initiating movement, getting the group going toward a goal. It was kind of like he'd do a push and then let things move as they wanted instead of pushing and then pulling it all into place, if that makes sense.

(K describes him as a loud, happy drunk, fwiw, and he did get mildly tipsy which seemed to only increase the amount and animation of talking.)

It was interesting watching him in a group of people he's known a lot longer than I have. They all had a sort of tolerant, amused attitude toward him, and jokes directed at him involved his competitiveness, tendency toward showing off his physique (he does body-building), and especially his proclivity toward opening his big mouth and burying himself with it. That subject came up a lot, deservedly so, it seems.

Ok, now a couple of anecdotes:

1) At one point, he asked me how my food was. I had been waiting for it for awhile and was at the point where I just needed to eat something, anything decent. So I said, "It's sustaining," which made sense to the majority of the people sitting nearby - it wasn't the best ever, but it was doing its job. It was a more interesting version of "fine." For some reason, he really couldn't get past me using that term - he said all he could think of was hippies and sustainability and living green, and then kept talking about how that would be a terrible yelp review and how would I like it if I asked how he was and he said "my bowels are acting up" or something along those lines.

He didn't joke in an offensive way (and, anyway, everybody at the table was basically on my "side" that it was a good descriptive term) so I wasn't offended or anything. A few minutes later, he interjects into out of the blue, "I'm sorry, [Minde], for teasing you" with what I think might have been mild sincere worry. But now that he's brought it up again he goes back into how that was weird, effectively negating the apology, which amused myself and a couple of others.

2) A couple of months ago, I had texted him a question, one that I like to ask people: "If there was one invention you wish would just be invented already, what would it be?" I had texted K the same thing around the same time, and it led to an interesting discussion (which is the goal). After I sent OPG that, though, I didn't hear from him for 2 months.

Normally, when someone doesn't respond to a text, at all, you figure they're not interested in conversing and just let it go, right? Not having invested myself in him (other than finding him a unique individual), I didn't worry about it and didn't try to bother him further.

Well, for most of last evening, he treated me as fairly equal to everybody else in the group, perhaps with even slightly more attention at times. When he talked with some others about how we were friends, I took the opportunity to tease him about ignoring me for weeks. Which led to some interesting (to me) revelations.

He kept saying how when I had texted him that it had been in the middle of a work emergency / stressful circumstance. He animately said how could he just drop everything and respond to "how are you? how's it going?" texts when all that was going on and he had to deal with it? In the middle of the loud excuse-making, I managed to insert a question about how would it take that much time to say "sorry, I'm busy right now." He didn't really address that, heh, but kept on about "really?! right in the middle of the crisis?!" all dramatic like. I tried to remind him it wasn't a "how are you" but a different question, but he didn't react much to that.

I can understand the trouble of shifting gears and time pressure, and it does add a new piece to his puzzle, because I've seen others who have issues with that as well. But I was still unclear on why he had still so totally frozen up. By now it was obvious that at least he didn't hate me or want nothing more to do with me. More mystery...

(The people around me at the table thought it was a great question and almost fought with each other to answer it for themselves.)

The topic of OPG ignoring me resurfaced a few more times during the evening. Another thing I'm noticing is that he will circle round and round to things on his mind - talking about it, shifting to other topics, then revisiting. And about 80% is expression as opposed to information gathering. One of the ways he processes, I guess.

Later, when he was giving me a ride to my car along with K and K's brother, he suddenly said something like, "You asked a strange question. It was a sort of creative... [mumble]... You're a creative person, right?" At first I didn't realize what he was talking about. "I'm a practical person. If you want to ask me [some detailed question about the stock market], I can do that, and figure it out. But... questions..." He made a confused, stumped look.

"It broke your brain?" I laughed.

"No, not that... it just..." He couldn't seem to describe what exactly he was feeling about it. But it seems something about that type of question threw him off and he couldn't recover.



Which leads me to my current paradox: Something about him sets me very at ease. He's loud and weird and awkward and I don't understand him it feels like half the time, and I'm fairly confident he doesn't understand me (or many people). BUT I very strangely still feel like I can be a lot more openly myself. And openly myself is intuitive, imaginative, expressive, allowing thoughts to flow. Art, basically. BUT those kinds of ways of being are foreign to him and he often either doesn't react or reacts with puzzlement and a little bit of pushback.

One reason I know I feel comfortable is that I feel safe. My gut and observations tell me he's not going to hurt me, ever, unless by accident and if then he'd work to fix it.

In contrast, I met another person, A, last night with whom I had almost instant understanding, at least in the sense that I knew what he was saying/meaning and vice versa. We easily slipped into conversation about code, trends, and somewhat about people. We shared a couple jokes that required between-the-lines communication, which has never been able to happen with OPG. My initial impression of A was Beta NF or ISFp. But despite (or because?) I had that instant understanding, a part of me didn't trust him and I held him at a relational arms length.



Guys, this conundrum is taking up far too much of my time and attention. I never write this much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Sounds like a sensor obviously. Seems more Ne valuing / alpha/delta. Likely ESXj. I can see LSE.

If you like him, you should try to hang out more. It doesn't sound like he had a good excuse for dodging your texts. Seems you like you two mutually intrigue each other. His on & off teasing as well as your mystery of him. Go for it.

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:love: Thanks for the non-quote.

Lol, your advice is the exact opposite of UDP's.

But HOW IS HE NE VALUING IF HE ACTS LIKE A SCARY ALIEN IS TALKING when I do Ne-y stuff? (sorry, I'm feeling weird - might have to do with social energy expenditure + not sleeping, and not eating most of today. I'll stop shouting now.)

I don't "like" like him, either. But intrigued, yes.

Hm, let me put that feeling into another perspective: Over the last few months, I've been creating a friendship with a woman I type as EIE. I have found her similarly interesting in the sense that I don't understand her always, but her insides are sparkly and solid and precious (like gems and gold precious), which is mostly not type related. She's been equally interested in getting to know me (in her own Beta way). Both of us being heterosexual women, it's been very non-awkward. We can focus, be affectionate, ask personal questions, share very personal information, etc. with a minimum of awkwardness and little to no false expectations. And we can count on continuing our friendship indefinitely with whatever level of closeness we want.

My ESE best friend is often fascinating to me, but that's similarly non-awkward. She's also a heterosexual female. I can dig into her psyche as much as I want and nobody takes it as romantic overtures. Granted, I've known her for years, so there isn't a lot of mystery left, but still. She's different enough from me that we still can surprise and enlighten each other.

But this guy is a heterosexual man. And of course immediately it becomes "oh, you like him." Which, ok, I guess this is how romance sometimes goes. But... ermfh... That's not my intent here. And, part of the problem I'm having is that if I pursued my curiosity like I did with my EIE friend he'd probably get all kinds of wrong ideas and expectations would end up a sloppy mess, etc. It could get very messy, and I really don't like hurting - myself or others. (It's happened before...) That's kind of why I'm venting / asking for input here.

And, yeah, no excuse for not replying to my text, lol. Unless he's (as I suspect) not nearly as interested in exploring differences as I am.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

You said you're asking for input and also venting. I'm not sure what you're looking for. Is there a specific question you have in mind? Is there anything left to answer that hasn't been answered already?

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Deciding on a type for this individual is partially a means to an end and partially a goal in itself. My main question here is "what is his type?" and a related question that I don't mind also discussing is "what are the gears doing beneath the hood of his mind?" because that's the actual aim. So, yes, there are questions left unanswered.

At least he's not a mascot; I hate those things. Mascots are black boxes with no soul and they try to make you do things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

I originally suggested LSI for him, typed out all of my reasons, which you pointed out the reasons it wouldn't work. You've rebutted others as well. Other descriptions of him may lean towards different typings.

Have any pictures for VI? Stalk his FB?

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I can PM you his FB page, which appears to be mostly public and has photos and posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

It seems like you just want to know his type, despite not being romantically interested in him or seeing him that often, simply because your interactions with him every time you meet have been peculiar & fascinating. Is that correct?

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Yes, that's accurate.




I get curious - it's a driving part of how I am constructed. TV shows, random scientific principles, how to do random things, minor histories, people all are possible targets. Sometimes I just want to know. I was infatuated with phosphorescence the other week. But once I'm satisfied, my energy toward it fades until I find something/someone else comes along that piques my interest. (Clarification for those who need it: This does NOT mean I just hop, skip, and jump through relationships/friendships; I'm talking about the waxing and waning of a very specific type of energy.)

Thanks for humoring my interest. I'm going to offer contradictions now, but that's a good thing since you've now taken on half of my brain's work. In lieu of a real conversation, my brain argues with itself, which becomes exhausting. And confusing, because sometimes I can't remember what I've already discussed with myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

He seems pretty clearly ESE by looking at his FB page. All of the exclamation points!!!!! and the Lols at the end of his posts and the excessive cheering up, proud pictures of him in the Superman shirt, always smiling, etc. This is someone who's naturally very in-tuned with influencing the mood. I also think his being ESE could explain the Illusionary relationship you have with him, and why you find it difficult to understand his underlying motives. Illusionary partners often enjoy each other's company and feel relaxed discussing various topics, but they have to make a strenous extra effort if they truly want to understand each other.

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ESE, ok. I'll consider it.

One problem I have right off is that he isn't attune to moods of groups, not immediately anyway. For that birthday party, the food took forever to arrive, and some people were getting "hangry" and annoyed. He didn't seem to pick up on that for a long time, and when he did he seemed to feel helpless to raise the mood. Basically all he did was "Oh, this isn't good :? ... We won't come back here."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

I couldn't ever post as much as him. This is one reason I couldn't ever stay long with the ESE self-typing honestly. He posts like every 1-2 days with a 'heyyyy' 'this is whatts'ssss happennininnngggg in my life right now everyone!!!' attitude. I couldn't keep up. I can see Ni PoLR just from his facebook posts. He rarely introspects. Which fits in with his fascination and appreciation of you, who offers valuable insight for him in a non-threatening way.

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I don't think he appreciates me like that or even finds me too fascinating. He knows exactly how to get ahold of me, is all extroverted out the wazoo, and yet barely ever says a word to me or initiates anything. Unless, of course, I happen to be one of the people directly in front of him at his best friend's birthday part, which the friend (not him) invited me to. Then he'll interact by finding things to make fun of or telling me I should be doing something. Or talking more about whatever happens to be on his mind, usually hard work and the lack thereof in this society and the way the middle class is in trouble because stock market things (I zoned out when he started speaking in numbers - has to do with AI, though).

As an experiment, this morning I commented a natural response I had to something he posted; it even included a question. If he replies AT ALL to me I'll be surprised.

For FB quantities, I post far more often than he. At least twice as much, I think. In fact, I hold myself back...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

"On vacation and back in (his city) tonight. What's up tonight?" --- he's definitely extroverted, happy-go-lucky, go-with-the-flow kind of person. Willing to start a party and BE the party.

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Except then he ended up being too tired and going to bed instead. It's an example of that push of energy without solid follow-through that I mentioned before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

And really, it's a process of elimination. An LSI wouldn't be nearly that cheery, an SLE wouldn't be as naive as him. An LSE or any Fi-valuer wouldn't radiate that much smiling and positive energy. I can't see him exhibiting any Ni whatsoever, to even consider being Beta NF. So he's most definitely Alpha. His Fe-leading is STRONG.

A lot of his interpersonal troubles result from the naiveness of ESEs in regards to others feelings ---- Fi-ignoring. His offending his roommate story you said and then leaving and not considering their underlying emotional state, Fi, he ignored. He behaves like the perfect ESE gentleman you mentioned at parties, introducing everyone to someone they know and can talk with so they feel comfortable. Behaving like the perfect host and caregiver.

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Could be ESE caregiving - or could be habits from his warm home culture. The East (and South) tends to be more hospitable than the West.

I do agree about the lack of Ni. Which makes me wonder something - I read awhile back that Ni can be a sort of plaything to EII, not to be taken seriously but fun to toss around and dabble in. Play happens when the EII is comfortable and safe. I imagine that could be bad news for XSEs when not done right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

But deep down he lacks introspection and real substance. That's why he has such ill-founded, black & white, horribly repressed weak Ti understandings of systems or people. That's why he makes such boneheaded black & white statements about people. It's the ESE who is underdeveloped.

So to answer your question - what are the gears doing beneath the hood of his mind? I think he receives your Ne as betterment of understanding of his world and philosophical views --- or pretty much he receives this entirely and completely, because he can't produce it himself. But he's more focused on the mood and valuing Fe, that he doesn't use this in a way you would subconsciously hope someone with Te would. You're enraptured by his ability to host well, his strength in various related Si matters, etc., but then not use that in a Te-way.

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Lol, no, I don't think he's the best host ever. My ESE best friend, who is an introvert in the popular sense, is a far better hostess. She is far better at lifting the mood and creating a warm, welcoming (yet not overwhelming) atmosphere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

I could write more but it's late and I'm tired honestly. For now, I think him fitting a relatively boneheaded, underdeveloped ESE makes sense with virtually everything you've shared so far in this thread - with the good & the bad. The guy has definite strengths too. I think your being Fe-ignoring yourself made you somewhat oblivious to the copious amounts of Fe he exudes. I can see it clearly from his FB page. It's everywhere lol. Maybe you don't notice the Fe in interactions much, being Fi-leading. But that seems to be his leading function. I am very confident of that.

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What do you see as his strengths?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Seriously - if you doubt his ESE or Alphaness, just look at his pictures in the Superman t-shirt or the picture of the M&M in the boxing shorts lol. Alpha sense of humor. The dude is clearly Alpha. I'm like 98% confident of ESE at this point as well.

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Silliness is not limited to Alphas.

Do you think you'd get along with him?