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I´d like to ask forum members especially Ammonius, Ashton and others who comment on the probable relations between these two systems.
So far I have a few tendencies myself but not a complete list of them yet, so I won´t write yet.
But I´d like to know: don´t you think it´s possible an LIE E3? Or an EIE E2? Or even SLI E1? And what would be the type(s) most likely for an E3?
As the two systems describe two different portions of a person's personality, it is possible to be literally any type combination between the two systems.
I'm surprised to hear you ask if an LIE could correlate to E3... from what I know of LIE, 3 is one of its best correlations. Same with EIE and 2.
it´s because Ammonius was saying it was not probable in other thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
I still think ENTJ goes well for E3 as well as ESTJ and ISTJ, and even ESFJ and ENFJ. Basically any EJ type.
Enneagram => Basic fear, motive, issue, passion, vice, virtue as root principle
Socionics => Cognitive preference among 8 psychological functions as root principle
You can only correlate the two where cognitive preference is related to a core motivation
If you can show how to do this and how it works, then you've successfully linked the two.
I dunno man, I'd be horribly surprised if I met an E7 INTp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
It'd be weird as fuck, but it's not impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galen
E7s come about from a need for the person to entertain or look after themselves. It's less than unlikely that an ILI would go about this in an E7 way (looking around in the outside world for new distractions) when they're cognitively much more suited to E5-ish independence/retreating into their own private mental world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
There are a bunch of overlaps as to what sorts of family environments breed what sorts of enneagram types, and it's these ambiguities that causes certain sociotypes to map to certain enneatypes. In practical, real-world terms, I would think that it actually is impossible for INTp to produce an E7 type, even if in technical terms it is not.
Where are you coming from saying that "any sociotype can be any etype", out of curiosity?
Well, I'm still a bit of an amateur on Socionics so I could be wrong, but based on my experience with MBTI the fact that cognitive processes measure the way you think rather than what motivates you, means it is possible to have a core motivation that apparently contradicts your cognitive processes. For example an ENTP (or ILE) could be domineering and forceful, but very mentally disorganized. Not sure how the inclusion of conscience blocks in Socionics affects this though, so I might be wrong to draw out the comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur
Conscience blocks as in ego, super-ego, super-id, id?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
Well, that's actually a very interesting thought. For example, your domineering, forceful ILE can't actually exist, as ILEs/ENTps have "Role Se"; in other words, due to their pursuit of "potential" and abstract stuff (base Ne), they naturally do not pursue material "stuff" or any sort of leverage for exerting their willpower over others (Se).
It's not just limited to ego/super-ego. You're similarly unlikely to find a domineering, forceful SEI (or SLI, for that matter), because Ignoring Se implies avoiding exerting your willpower to get people to do things, which is antithetical to coaxing them to do something with some sort of personally satisfying reward.
Ahhhh, I see. So I suppose then an ENTP 8w7 (which is not too uncommon) would be guaranteed to be something other than ILE then?
Yes, those conscience blocks.
Well the thing is, we tend to choose coping strategies that fit our strengths; when people are put under pressure, they rely on what they are best at. So just based on human nature, it's probably nigh on impossible for a person's core strategy in life to be out of alignment with their natural strengths.
I don't like that word "guaranteed", lol. I'm kind of hesitant to say that being a certain etype precludes a certain sociotype, even though I've been arguing precisely that point :P
But yes, I would think it highly unlikely that your 8w7 would be an ILE in Socionics, MBTI ENTP or not.
I suppose you´re an E1 - ISTJ?Quote:
Originally Posted by squark
yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
[quote=Aleksei;682074]As the two systems describe two different portions of a person's personality, it is possible to be literally any type combination between the two systems.[quote]
NO
I am doubting E3 LIE, they are E8 who looks like E3 sometimes tho, and don't think so for EIE 2.Quote:
I'm surprised to hear you ask if an LIE could correlate to E3... from what I know of LIE, 3 is one of its best correlations. Same with EIE and 2.
these are tendencies of enneagram types:
E1 - are generally ISTJ or ESTJ, rarely INTJ
E2 - ISFJ, ESFJ, ENFJ, INFJ
E3 - ENTJ, ENFJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ESTP
E4 - ENFJ, INFP
E5 - INTJ, INTP, ENTP
E6 - ESTP, ISTJ, ISTP
E7 - ESFJ, ENTP, ESTP
E8 - ENTJ, ESTP, ISTJ
E9 - ISTP, ENTP, INTJ, PRACTICALLY ANY SOCIONICS TYPE...
My take....Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
E1 - ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ (Rational Sensory most likely)
E2 - ISFJ, ESFJ, INFJ, ISFP (Introverted Fi Ethicals and Alpha SF most likely)
E3 - ENTJ, ENFJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ENTP, ESTJ (Extroverted types most likely)
E4 - INFP, ISFP, INFJ (Introverted Ethicals most likely)
E5 - INTJ, INTP, ENTP (Introverted NT most likely)
E6 - ISTJ, ENTP, ESTJ, ENTJ (Extroverted NT and Rational ST most likely)
E7 - ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, ENFP (Dominant :Ne: or :Se: -- Creative functions, most likely)
E8 - ISTP, ESTP, ESTJ, ENTJ (Dominant :Te: or :Se: functions, most likely)
E9 - ISTP, INFP, ISFP, ISFJ, INFJ, INTP (IP Temperament, Fi-dominant most likely)
and in reverse.....
ISFP - 4w3, 4w5, 2w3, 9w1
ESFJ - 2w3, 3w2, 2w1
INTJ - 5w6, 6w5
ENTP - 7w6, 6w7, 5w6, 6w5
INFP - 4w3, 4w5
ENFJ - 3w4, 3w2
ISTJ - 1w2, 2w1
ESTP - 7w8, 8w7
INTP - 5w6, 6w5, 5w4
ENTJ - 3w4, 8w7
ISFJ - 2w3, 2w1, 9w1, 1w9
ESFP - 7w6, 3w2
ISTP - 8w9, 9w8
ESTJ - 8w9, 1w9, 1w2, 3w2, 6w5
INFJ - 4w5, 4w3, 2w1, 1w2, 1w9, 9w1
ENFP - 7w6, 3w2
ah you damn ****** you make me feel like an idiot lol
Einstein was a 5 ENTp. Until he DIED! OMG
lol, I wasn't even trying....Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
That's a really good list, HaveLucidDreamz.
my version:
My thinking is that unless you're including one or more of the 3/6/9 types with each socio type, then you're not being complete because these are the most common types. 4 and 5 are the rarest types, so it's highly unlikely that any type would correlate with only one of those and not one of the 3/6/9s.Quote:
ISFP - 9w1, 6w7
ESFJ - 2w3, 3w2, 2w1, 6w7
INTJ - 5w6, 6w5, 1w9, 9w1
ENTP - 7w6, 6w7, 5w6, 6w5, 7w8 (really, any head type)
INFP - 4w3, 4w5, 6w5, 6w7
ENFJ - 3w4, 3w2, 4w3
ISTJ - 1w2, 6w5
ESTP - 7w8, 8w7, 3w2, 9w8
INTP - 5w6, 6w5, 5w4
ENTJ - 3w4, 8w7, 5w6
ISFJ - 2w1, 9w1, 1w9, 1w2
ESFP - 7w6, 3w2, 2w3
ISTP - 9w8, 6w5, 5w6
ESTJ - 8w9, 1w9, 1w2, 3w2, 6w5
INFJ - 4w5, 2w1, 1w9, 9w1
ENFP - 7w6, 3w4, 2w3
Also I think type 2 of both wings would rate high on Fi and nothing else, probably any kind of xxFJ for sure and probably ExFP. I'd narrow it down to ESFx, IxFJ, ENFx. IxFP just doesn't seem too likely, they're probably just 9s or 6s instead.
WTF? HERE WHERE I LIVE 4s and 5s are like a virus, they´re all around the place. 1s and 8s are quite rare here. And I´ve found that in other regions of the same country it´s different, there are few 3s for example. I don´t agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
Si-base 6? What would that even look like? It just seems really, really... weird.
EDIT
Weird entries, imo:
Also, 7w8 ENTp, and the lack of an E3 option. One very close friend is an ILE 3, and a schoolmate of mine potentially was an E3, but don't hold me to that.
E1 ENFj
E9 ISTj
quieter ones that openly seem more nervous, or more openly loyal and extraverted ones. 6 has a lot of variety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur
And how do you determine that they are 5s and 4s? 6 and 3 are far more likely than either, based on what I've heard elsewhere, and both 6 and 3 are easy to mistake for other types. It's possible that you're mistaken, but there's really no way for either of us to know. Your disagreement is noted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
I guess the people I was thinking of could actually be 3s and 6s. I'm not really sure. ehhhh... I'll change it. I was thinking my stepmom is ENFJ 1w2, because she reminds me a lot of Arianna Huffington (1w2, possible ENFj), but I dunno if she's the type I think she is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur
Ok, I didn't ask my question right.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
How does Si-base E6 work? It just seems self-conflicting. How can you couple a mentally overactive etype with a very sensory-focused Socionics type?
I'm not shooting your ideas down, btw, I'm just curious.
Well 6s are supposedly out of touch with their own intelligence, they sorta mold their ideas based on whatever system of ideas they attach themselves to. It's not so much Si base, but weak Te/Ti. But maybe being a 6 has nothing to do with the functions and it's just a loyalty/trust thing.
Roger, I'm with you now :thumbsup:
One thing that I still don't know what to do with is that Jerry Seinfeld, Rachel Maddow, and Natalie Portman are all supposed to be 1w2.
Really? I've seen Seinfeld typed as 9w1. I remember an Andrew Denton interview, and one thing he was saying that stuck out to me was where he was talking about having his parents inside of him whenever he acts. That seemed Niney enough, especially from an sx/sp (the site had him as INFJ 9w1 sx/sp, IIRC)
yea that sounds like a 1. How else do you think 1s can stay such sticklers for rules? You gotta have that internal authority figure ready to berate you if you do anything wrong.
edit: plus it makes sense for a 1w2's internal authority figure to have a more human face than a 1w9's.
Clearly it can be interpreted either way :PQuote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
Your way is probably less loose than mine.
I wouldn't say 6's are out of touch with their intelligence so much as they are out of touch with their own confidence. I consider myself to be an intelligent person, but I know that having to apply that intelligence sometimes makes me nervous if I'm not totally confident in what I'm saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
Also what would anybody know about there being an E8 ISTp out there? It seems like a weird combination to me but I'd like to hear other opinions on it.
8w9's are called The Bear. I could imagine an SLI who considers himeself a Bear.
I think maximus from gladiator seems like an ISTP 8w9, the way he is a farmer and wants to do his duty and go back to his family and live an idyllic existence seems delta and Si, but his power and more earthy nature fits perfectly as a 8w9. Naturally leader, respectful, earthy, calm, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispy
Further commodos seems like a beta gone wrong, which is the opposing quadra of delta; he's whiny, emotional, ambitious, influential, melancholic, passionate expressions (AM I NOT MERCIFUL!!!).
Further at the end of the story, he gives Rome back to being a republic from an empire.... Quadra Progression of Delta (Aristocratic) --> Alpha (Democratic)
8w9 is a tricky one. The only 8w9s I know personally are LSEs, so I'd hesitate to equate it with any other type. I don't know very many 8s actually. I'd imagine SLEs make good 8w9s though, SLI is entirely possible.
I know Shaq is a 8w9 for sure, so whatever type he is...
Any fixation, no matter what its relation to your sociotype or your dual's, is going to get in the way of having a healthy relationship until it is properly controlled/integrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by squark
Sure. No question about that. Just pointing out how the enneatype can be an additional layer between people, regardless of how frequently it correlates to sociotype. And a bad week sort of leaked out here, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
8w9 means sly, manipulative sonuvabitch. Not sure SLEs make a good fit (too brash), but LIEs certainly do.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
IMO:
ESE: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8
LII: 1, 3, 5, 6, 9
ILE: 3, 5, 6, 7, 9
SEI: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9
EIE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8
LSI: 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9
SLE: 3, 6, 7, 8
IEI: 3, 4, 6, 9
LIE: 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8
ESI: 1, 2, 6, 8
SEE: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8
ILI: 4, 5, 6
LSE: 1, 3, 6, 7?, 8
EII: 1, 3, 4, 6, 9
IEE: 2, 3, 6, 7, 9
SLI: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
ESE, 8? LSE, 7?
The rest looks about right.
Yeah. ESE 8s aren't common, but my grandfather was one, 8w7 sx/so. He could have been a 3w2; that's the only other possibility.
LSE 7s I'm not entirely sure on.
Was he image-conscious at all, even secretly? If so, he was a 3. 8s don't give a a shit about what others think of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
My ESFj dad is very much so E8w9. E8 seems like a very Ej enneatype IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
Here's my super tentative, unjustified and speculative enneagram table:
ENTp: 3 5 6 7 9?
ISFp: 1? 2 3? 4? 6 9
ESFj: 1? 2 3 6 7 8
INTj: 1? 5 6 9?
ESTp: 3 5? 6? 7 8
INFp: 1? 2? 4 6 9?
ENFj: 1? 2 3 6 7 8
ISTj: 1 3 5 6
ESFp: 2? 3 6 7 8?
INTp: 1? 5 6 9?
ENTj: 1 3 6 7? 8
ISFj: 1 4 6 9
ENFp: 2? 3 6 7 9
ISTp: 1 2? 5 6 9
ESTj: 1 2? 3 6 7? 8 9?
INFj: 1 2 4 6 9
The problem I see with 8s and Fe is that 8s are supposed to be completely out of touch and unaffected by emotions. 8s seem the *least* open to Fe of all the types.
This seems like the opposite of Ti seeking:Quote:
True intimacy however does not come easily or naturally to Eights. Soft and tender emotions tend to make Eights feel "weak," and, more to the point, intimacy requires Eights to lower their defenses and thereby become vulnerable. Vulnerability, in turn, triggers the Eight's fear of being controlled. Thus, intimate relations are often the arena in which the Eight's control issues are most obviously played out.
So I don't see 8 for Fe ego types. Fe leading just implies the expression of more emotion and more openness to emotion than an 8 would ever allow themselves to have.Quote:
Eights frequently consider "morality" to be just one more means by which society attempts to exert illegitimate control over them. It is, they reason, the weapon that the constitutionally weak use to keep the naturally strong "in line." Eights, like counterphobic Sixes, are suspicious of rules, and often take an oppositional stance to authority.
100% agreement. Basically 8 equals Te imo. Maybe on paper any socionic type can be any enneagram type but things usally look better on paper than when you see them in reality. Another opinion I hold is 2 equals Fe.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
8's move in the direction of growth when they act more like 2's, but 2's act stressed when they act more like 8's. 2's move in the direction of growth when they act like 4's who are highly empathetic but far less mushy.
Admittedly, I can not explain myself in enneagram. I can see why INTJ, ISTP and INTP would be 5's, especially since 5's move toward 8 for growth. The Te connection makes sense for INTP and ISTP. However if I have come across enneagramtype institute basically associating 5's with Ti.
Another opinion is Se equates to 3, but if Se is the secondary function (i.e. ISTJ, ISFJ), then they are 6's.
Unfortunatley, to think both verbally and numerically seems like a physical impossibility, its like shitting and vomitting at the same time, its gets messy.
It doesn't really work like that, To be honest, I would avoid correlation with Infromation element and E-types. EXE can be 8, like victim, XIE can be 8, or SE ego, who's contrary of E-9 lifestyle can be 9, like XSI.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric sheep
I would agree with you in the case of 3/6/9, simply because they have the widest ranges of personality. I know plenty of super chill ESTps that are 9w8, for instance. It's not that contradictory. In the case of other enneagram types, like 8, they are a bit easier to classify, or at the very least, rule out a few types.Quote:
Originally Posted by 07490
1w9: INTj
1w2: ESTj
2w1: INFj
2w3: ENFp
3w2: ESFp
3w4: ENTp
4w3: INFj
4w5: INFp
5w4: INTp
5w6: INTj
Cp6w5: ENTj
Prussian 6w5: ISTj
Phobic 6w5: INFj
Cp6w7: ENFj
Prussian 6w7: ISFj
Phobic 6w7: ENFp
7w6: ESFj
7w8: ISTp
8w7: ESTp
8w9: ISTj
9w8: ESFj
9w1: INFp
Trademark typesQuote:
Originally Posted by Heavy
One-ISTj
Two-ESFj
Three-ENFj
Four-INFp
Five-INTj-INTp
Six-ISFj,ESTj
seven-ESFp,ENTp
Eight-ENTj,ESTp
Nine-ISFp,INFj
Listing the most common Enneagram types for all 16 socionics
I was wondering about this page on Enneagram 4, which includes Marlon Brando and Kate Winslet among the "Famous 4s", yet from what I know Marlon Brando and Kate Winslet are typed SLE.
Enneagram Personality Type 4: The Artist
This site lists Marlon Brando within the SLE category:
Socionics : Famous Sensing Logical Extraverts (SLE)
This site lists Kate Winslet within the SLE category:
Socionics Visual Identification Gallery
So is it possible?
Didn't see this earlier. I haven't updated this list in awhile, so it might stand for some tweaks.
Alpha (α)
Si-ESFj: 2w3, 8w9, 9w8
Fe-ESFj: 2w1, 2w3, 3w2, 7w6
Ne-INTj: 5w6, 1w9
Ti-INTj: 5w6, 9w1
Ne-ENTp: 7w6, 3w2, 3w4
Ti-ENTp: 5w6, 7w6, 6w7, 3w4
Si-ISFp: 4w3, 4w5, 9w1, 9w8
Fe-ISFp: 4w3, 2w3, 9w1
Beta (β)
Ni-ENFj: 7w8, 8w7, 8w9
Fe-ENFj: 7w6, 9w8, 3w2
Se-ISTj: 6w7, 1w9, 5w6
Ti-ISTj: 5w6, 6w5, 1w2
Se-ESTp: 7w6, 3w2, 8w7
Ti-ESTp: 7w8, 3w4, 8w7
Ni-INFp: 4w3, 4w5, 6w5
Fe-INFp: 3w4, 4w3, 9w1
Gamma (γ)
Ni-ENTj: 7w8, 8w7, 3w2
Te-ENTj: 7w6, 6w7
Se-ISFj: 6w5, 6w7
Fi-ISFj: 6w5, 1w9
Se-ESFp: 7w6, 7w8
Fi-ESFp: 6w7, 7w6
Ni-INTp: 5w4
Te-INTp: 5w6
Delta (δ)
Si-ESTj: 8w9, 9w8, 3w2
Te-ESTj: 1w9, 3w2, 8w9
Ne-INFj: 6w5, 9w1
Fi-INFj: 9w1, 1w2, 1w9
Ne-ENFp: 7w6, 6w7
Fi-ENFp: 7w6, 6w7, 2w3
Si-ISTp: 9w8, 9w1
Te-ISTp: 5w6, 9w1, 9w8
Is this list based solely on observations or are there some guesses/hypotheses in there as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
Also I like how all of your type lists begin with Pi-EXXjs haha
Mostly just observations. I should add 6w5 to Fi-ENFp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galen
Haha. They're usually supposed to begin with Je-EJ, then go Pi-EJ » Ji-IJ » Pe-IJ » Pe-EP » Ji-EP » Pi-IP » Je-IP… but somehow this one slipped past the standard.Quote:
Also I like how all of your type lists begin with Pi-EXXjs haha
Maybe add 9w1 too for both subtypes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
Well even on the socionix gallery everything starts with Pi-EXXj :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
I just thought that Pe-EXXp was 'traditionally' the first type in lists. Then again I heard that on wikisocion so w/e
EDIT: This just occured to me, but does anyone think there could be some weak correlation between stacking and sociotype?
Oh, on the type list it starts out Je-EJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galen
Not in mine, buster.Quote:
I just thought that Pe-EXXp was 'traditionally' the first type in lists.
That makes sense. I'd imagine then that perhaps it's more likely that the enneagram typing is wrong in those cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by ananke
Here's another example of someone [Gwen Stefani in this case] that is known to be SLE in Socionics being categorized as a 4 in the Enneagram:
The Enneagram Blogspot: Type 4: Identity-Seeker
And she's categorized under SLE here:
Socionics Visual Identification Gallery
Yet on this site she's in the video gallery of Enneagram 6:
Enneagram Personality Type 6: The Doubter
This site seems to make more sense regarding celebrities and Enneagram:
7 - Enneagram Type Seven: The Enthusiast
It categorized Kate Winslet as a 7 which is more compatible with SLE [in the sense that it's more probable for an SLE to be a 7 (or 8 or 3) rather than a 4, which is what I'm learning...].
Stefani, Winslet, Brando, etc. as enneatype 4 would seem awfully bizarre to me. Stefani and Winslet make sense to me as 7—probably the most common enneatype for ESTp imo. Brando, I'm not sure about him… instinct triad seems like it could be right, of which only 8 seems sensible… but then 8 doesn't quite fit for some reason. So hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by lazybones
"Prussian"? What's that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy
Prussians are often depicted as authoritarian, militaristic, and extremely orderly, a characterization based on the unswerving obedience of their army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Ness
Source: The American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, 3rd Ed.
That´s interesting. Sounds reasonable. But in 9 years of Enneagram I never saw this type of E6...'PRUSSIAN E6'... in my view they´d fall under category Counter-Phobic. Because they counteract their fear with militarism, order and obedience. To me this is probably just s subtype of CP E6.Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior-librarian
I´m copying this if you don´t mind, to a brazilian enneagram forum I participate in and we´re discussing relations of Socionics types to Enneagram because some people there began to get interested about socionics. This list is the most consistent I´ve seen on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
Ashton
That chart does not include me as INFj 2w1 :?
Oh, they mean literally Prussian-like. Okay. I've never seen categories of type 6 other than phobic and counterphobic. Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior-librarian
It´s okay that this type of 6 is noticed and taken into account but sometimes people involved in Enneagram, Socionics, MBTI, and personality typologies in general just like to complicate matters more, to sound knowledgeable.
It ends up complicating things further. The 'Prussian E6' is just too similar to an E1 sp, that the two will probably be taken one for the other most of the time = innacurate typing.
The need of a Prussian E6 sure confuses me. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
I've always thought the same way. Isn't a Prussian 6 just a phobic so-firster or any phobic 6 in so-ish situations?Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Ness
My observations:
E1 - ISTj, ESTj
E2 - ESFj, ISFj
E3 - ENFj
E4 - INFp, INFj
E5 - INTj, INTp
E6 - ISTp, ISFp
E7 - ESFp, ESTp
E8 - ENTp, ENTj
E9 - ENFp, INFp
:lol: Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy
Characteristic Types
1 - ISTj
2 - ISFj
3 - ESFp
4 - INFp
5 - INTp
6 - ESTj
7 - ENTp
8 - ESTp
9 - INFj
Characteristic Functions
1 - :Ti:
2 - :Fi: :Si:
3 - :Fi: :Se:
4 - :Ni: :Fe:
5 - :Ti: :Ne:
6 - :Te: :Ti:
7 - :Ne:
8 - :Se: :Te:
9 - :Si: :Ni:
I'd say ESFj for "Characteristic 2". Also, :Te: for 3's characteristic function, and :Fe: > :Si: for E2.
Nice food for thought, though, thanks :thumbsup:
Let the battle begin!
Well, there has been some debate recently that only certain socionics types could be an enneagram type. Like only IEEs are 6w7 or 7w6 for instance and ILIs are usually 5w6. Is this always the case? Are socionics types always limited to a certain enneagram? Can an ESE be a 5w6 for instance and a ILI be a 7w8? Perhaps, enneagram is a way to differentiate people between a certain type that behave or think differently. Let's Discuss.
No, they are not limited to certain Enneagram types. Those are two different systems which exist independently of each other. That means you can actually score every combination possible. However, since both systems deal with personality traits, it wouldn't be plausible if someone got a very contradicting combination, like ILI and E7. So there is always a range of standard combinations and any others might be more or less contradicting and therefore unlikely to happen if the questions were answered honestly.
The only E-type that I've proven can fit any socionics type is the 6.
And how did you prove that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
Because everybody stutters or stumbles over words sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaDoomerAnd how did you prove that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by k0rpseyBecause everybody stutters or stumbles over words sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaDoomer
MegaDoomer's got it. :thumbsup:
Extroverted extroverts aren't doubly withdrawn enneatypes, and vice-versa for introverted introverts and double-assertive enneatypes. I'd further have a pretty tough time imagining an extrovert of any kind being 4w5 (unless they have a high-assertive secondary fix, like 8w7).
Other than that it's all probably fair game.
I dunno, I doubt you'd see an ILI as a 2w3 or a 3w4. LOL
Or an SLE as a 5.
Or an IEI as a 1.
Or an EII as an 8.
if youre figuring out somebody's type and you think theyre eii youre probably unlikely to think they could be an 8, or if you think theyre a 2 youre probably not considering ili for them. so i dont really see the point of making a list of correlations?
ILI can be 2. EII 8 is bizarre, but since Se-devaluers chafe under authority, 8 is plausible for them (though it'd be 8w9).
IEI 1 is not only possible; it's common. IEIs are lazy fuckers true enough, but they're grand visionary lazy fuckers, and usually (hypocritically) critical of others. I know at least one IEI 1 (IEI-EII 1w2 sp/so), and an IEI with a 1 secondary fix (IEI-ESE 2w1 > 1w9 > p6w5 sx/sp), as well as several in fiction (Dumbledore, the Seventh Doctor...).
El oh el.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
You keep this system up, not only this E6 almost everyone is saying can be all socionics types, but all of them enneagram types.Quote:
IEI 1 is not only possible; it's common. IEIs are lazy fuckers true enough, but they're grand visionary lazy fuckers, and usually (hypocritically) critical of others. I know at least one IEI 1 (IEI-EII 1w2 sp/so), and an IEI with a 1 secondary fix (IEI-ESE 2w1 > 1w9 > p6w5 sx/sp), as well as several in fiction (Dumbledore, the Seventh Doctor...).
The problem with that being...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurd
Seeing you dabble in it, it is pointless. Seriously, what's the point in arguing over: this is guy can't be LII and E7, he must be some other socionics type or E-type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
You don't have a problem with it, apparently, and still you're confident to point out one is not the type she/he is, be it socionics type or E-type.
Socionics types and E-types (and X other type systems) have specific markers, that one can recognize if one has studied the systems. They can be applied in parallel. What's wrong with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsurdSeeing you dabble in it, it is pointless. Seriously, what's the point in arguing over: this is guy can't be LII and E7, he must be some other socionics type or E-type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
You don't have a problem with it, apparently, and still you're confident to point out one is not the type she/he is, be it socionics type or E-type.
You overrate how much Se polrs "chafe".. For them to be a fulltime 8 at least. If you isolated some instance where they went all George McFly on Biff, then anyone can be an 8. Everyone has to do that.
Besides, it's more likely they'd ignore or be generally oblivious to begin with.
I know both are being applied in parallel, I'm not blind. What's wrong with gluing LII with E7, though ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
There was once a guy on here who claimed to be LII 3w2 later on to re-type himself ESE.
An LII 7 would be weird as fuck, but not impossible for a C-LII. I've actually seen C-LSI 7s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurd
I think Krig is C-LII, at least, that's how he self-types, not to mention he embraced E1 for himself, and I, specifically, said LII not LSI. E7 is all about options, multitude of ideas, a fountainhead. I guess LSIs being Ne polr are stereotypical idea generators, in your brand of socionics, that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
That's because they are LSI-IEE-ESFJ so/sx subtypes. :indifferent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurd
Ye, and on top of that, they are 1w2-7w6-3w2. Mystery solved. Now back to our normal programing said the young prince to a squirrel family passing by.Quote:
Originally Posted by stray
7 is not idea generation; that's just a behavioral assumption of it. 7 is defined, principally, as seeking stimulation -- shrinking away from introspection. LSI-Se could easily fit that.
Quote:
That's because they are LSI-IEE-ESFJ so/sx subtypes. :indifferent:
LOL, fuck you guys. :pQuote:
Ye, and on top of that, they are 1w2-7w6-3w2. Mystery solved. Now back to our normal programing said the young prince to a squirrel family passing by.
Yup, introverts shrinking from introspection, what else - introverts leading quite successful lives being quite restless and doing things one after another, jumping from one activity to another. To hell with their duals, they don't need them at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
I agree, I think you the nail on the head on this one. Generally speaking they're very different, but in the end there are still limitations for what a socionics type can be in the enneagram and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaDoomer
I type people.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaDoomerAnd how did you prove that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
Oh, it must be true then... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
Why do people throw in theses without some reasoning behind it?
There are some pretty obviously conflicting type-combinations out there: F-ego 5, T-ego 4, IP 8, EJ 9, T-ego 2, introverted 7, etc. Things like instinct stackings, though, are probably not relegated to any one socionics type over any other, or so goes my observations.
Definitely not conflicting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galen
ILI/IEI can't be 8?! What are you on?Quote:
IP 8
Weird, but nah, still not conflicting.Quote:
T-ego 2
C-xEIs (especially C-SEIs) can easily be 7.Quote:
introverted 7
Sure there's no one-to-one correlation but doesn't mean there's NO correlation, or that there are some types that simply WILL NOT (not CANNOT, but WILL NOT, there's a difference) in 99% of the cases, be a particular E-type because it doesn't make sense. You probably won't find many SLE 9s for instance. Or SLI E-3s. LII 3s. LII 8. EIE 5. Just because it's possible in some alternate universe (or, okay, even in our universe), doesn't make it likely.
And anyway, how might this relate to tcaud's dual-type theory? I'm wondering if EM types are more related to enneagram types than IM. just a thought.