"are you angry?"
a few people i've considered beta types have said they get asked this when they aren't angry at all. like others read anger into them.
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"are you angry?"
a few people i've considered beta types have said they get asked this when they aren't angry at all. like others read anger into them.
All the time -- pisses me off.
Are you horny?Quote:
Originally Posted by yeves
I hate it when people say shit like "don't get angry"
Not really asked if I am angry. When I am people know it. I get asked, "are you ok?" or "where are you?" occasionally. Probably because I get lost in thought or stare off in the middle of conversations sometimes.
Some have asked, "are you crazy?" I usually just say, "yes" to that. I figure if they are seriously asking they won't comprehend any rational response I could make to that sort of question.
calm downQuote:
Originally Posted by mercutio
It happens more often than I would like it to happen.
Sigh.
i get asked "how can you have so much energy and/or how come you're so positive/enthusiastic" --however when i do get angry lol they don't need to ask :D
Angry beta's.... *shudders*
I've been wondering ever since joining what you guys were so upset about ;-)
Not really. I get asked "What are you thinking about?" very often.
hahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by lungs
yeh that one is funny too.
what are you thinking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by darya
I have many close friends and co-workers who have never seen me angry at all.
Why hold back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
I've dealt with this a lot from my ESE mom, a bit less so from my IEE dad and EII step mom. with mom it's usually a solicitous, 'are you ok?' or 'are you in a bad mood?' when I'm probably just a bit tense or halfway annoyed at some random bullshit I was thinking about. with the deltas it's more about apprehending and sometimes trivializing whatever 'state' you happen to be in, usually with innocuous inquiries, but occasionally with offhand commentary. never had this issue with gammas, though I haven't dealt with many... their approach seems a bit more direct and tangible, like so long as you aren't impinging on basic harmony or people you're generally fine, and betas just tend to get it. so on the whole, a bit more with alphas, though basically in this kind of childish way, Fi types overall are generally less concerned with how a person emotively 'seems.'
I generally know what people are capable of beforehand. So when someone does something that's typically out of character, i don't really see it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by mercutio
I don't hold back. I'm direct to a fault, i just resolve it before it effects me.
I don't really get asked if I feel angry. I don't get asked about my feelings much at all... maybe it's because I don't really take them seriously. It's wierd, but I'm not sure if I know what a feeling of anger is. That is, anger directed at a specific person who has wronged me. I often feel so much involved in the other person, that there's no room left in me for a feeling of anger.
Not angry but I get a lot of, "what's wrong?" "you look down" But then I tell them my face just looks like that.
How? How do you not set limitations on what's typical of someone's character if you have Fe/Ti? Something isn't adding up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
What do you mean when you say you don't take your feelings seriously? I may be able to relate to that but it depends what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel
I get this asked only when I am boiling on the inside, without even being aware of it myself at first.
Other than that, it is not a common question.
I get asked all the time if I'm on drugs. FML
^ Heh. I've had people say I look like a stoner before...
I mean I don't feel any loyalty to a specific emotion I am feeling at any certain time; I often have to consciously search to discover the source of my emotion. When I feel emotions, its not because of something within me that has been wronged or frustrated. Rather, my 'feelings' directly feed off of the people and situations surrounding me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree
I often feel frustrated when I can't get something I want badly. But I would seldom describe the feeling as anger.
He is IEI-NiQuote:
Originally Posted by fighter
Extraverted ethics (feeling) internal dynamics of objects Fe http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...bol_Fe.svg.png Fe is responsible for the perception of an emotional state in an individual and the bodily and linguistic expression of emotions. Fe is able to influence others' emotional condition and to communicate its own, "infecting" others. Fe is used especially in generating and recognizing excitement and enthusiasm.
Setting limits on someone else's character seems more Fi related to me.
Introverted ethics (feeling) internal statics of fields Fi http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...bol_Fi.svg.png Fi is responsible for understanding the quality, nature, and proper maintenance of personal relations; makes moral judgments; and aspires to humanism and kindness. Fi has a strong understanding of the social hierarchy and how people feel about each other, their attitudes of like or dislike, enthrallment or disgust, repulsion or attraction, enmity or friendship.
I mean... you set limits on people, they're just very flexible limits, IMO. I get super pissed at objects when they don't perform as they're supposed to bc they're object, you know, you're supposed to be able to count on them to perform as advertised. Not so with people. Too many factors, too many variables, too much information. It's kinda like socionics, no real limits on *what* people can do, more like limits on how they'd do it. I don't really get surprised at people very often, unless I don't know them very well, or based my opinion on some fake part of their personality. Like, I had a co-worker tell me a story about drinking alarmingly heavily and I wasn't really surprised... that was kind of an area of his life I had no preconceptions about, and now that piece of info fits in with the rest of it, I suppose.
Also I rarely get "are you mad." It's usually "are you okay?" Which I find super annoying because it usually means "you're doing something that confuses/concerns/upsets me" and I'm like ugh you just interrupted my process of doing whatever I was doing by making me waste time smiling and assuring you I'm fine. And yeah, it's usually either very obvious that I'm mad (someone has done something unacceptable and I feel capable of correcting it) or just vaguely emotionally noncommittal as I withdraw from the situation until I am in private to deal with it (either I'm not sure who's in the wrong, if anyone; or, I can't do anything to fix the situation through a show of emotion, so there's no point in wasting the energy.)
I was not sure what she had meant by "limits on character" so I was hoping someone would comment on this. I don't think I set limits on other's. I do set my own boundaries though and those boundaries are very flexible, depending on the person. I am rarely surprised even though I may say, "oh you surprised me!", somewhere in the back of my mind I saw it coming which makes it easier to deal with with whether it is acceptable or not. I try not to prejudge people even when I do suspect they are going to do something totally fucked up down the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverchris9
I am also quick to forgive offenses. I knew this girl who would steal from me all the time and deny it even when I would find my stuff in her purse. She would say that i gave it to her or that she bought the same thing. I even saw her wearing jewelry that my ex had engraved my name on and it was so comical the way she tried to say it was hers until I pointed out my name on it. She just took it off and handed it back to me with a shrug and a sorry. The worst part is she was so likable and funny that I would forget being angry with her. I finally set my boundaries with her and haven't seen her since. I am much happier without her around. I don't hide my stuff anymore. I feel free but it took a couple of years to get rid of her because she made me laugh and she seemed to have a good heart but was the biggest EIE kleptomaniac.
Limiting someone's character, for me, is to judge them right/wrong/good/bad, then not giving them any room to be anything different, so it does not surprise me when people who do this are often surprised by someone else.
Thinking back on SLE explosions I can laugh and they can laugh with me. They were not funny at the time though. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider
I had an ILI throw spaghetti, with sauce, on my ceiling once because I inadvertently made him jealous. It was a high ceiling over a staircase so I was unable to clean it off. I moved a few days later but the stain was still there. The apartment was immaculate otherwise so I got my deposit back. :lol:
ftr, I HAD a knack for turning the most mild mannered men into monsters. :shifty:
Read it carefully Aylen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylen
I did. You want to share your take on it and on what pookie said or should I guess?Quote:
Originally Posted by fighter
Edit: I am not so good at Te so any clarity would be appreciated. Thanks.
Emotional manipulation is exclusive of emotional forecasting and prediction. One is driving an emotional state while the other can reign it in.
Pookie actually has emotional holographic capability. So I'm thinking she's HP cognition not VS cognition.
In other words, Fe is going to create an emotional state while what Pookie is explaining is an assessment of a predefined state.
Can totally relate to this. When someone is "wronging" me in some way, I feel removed from the situation, as if Im merely observing the effect of this other person on myself. Afterwards I end up asking myself, "wait a minute - they just got away with something totally offensive...!? :shock:"Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylen
What Pookie (who is a he) was explaining was real life situations and how he deals with it from my perspective so I believe I understand him without further explanation on his part. What I am having a problem with is how you are attributing what he said to not being Fe. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying. It felt like you were trying to insinuate something but wasn't direct about it. I know you think I am defensive sometimes but I am not being defensive right now. Just trying to get to the core of what you meant in your response to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by fighter
You said:
I am sort of feeling like what you really wanted to say to him is that he is not an Fe/Ti user. Without coming right out and saying it. Is that correct?Quote:
How? How do you not set limitations on what's typical of someone's character if you have Fe/Ti? Something isn't adding up...
Ni users have no problem seeing what is most probable and even predicting. This is why I am not fond of socionsspeak. Please explain what this means to you and how you view Fe as exclusive in this context.
An example would be helpful. I would even take some Te (what is commonly understood to be socionics facts) if it is not clear I will ask for more info.Quote:
Emotional manipulation is exclusive of emotional forecasting and prediction
I am viewing what Pookie said through an Ni filter to begin with but my Ni seems to be failing to connect with your Ni.
You either get that Fe is going to create and therefore manipulate emotional states or you don't. It isn't that complicated honestly. (In order to find out an object's potential, you have to manipulate it somehow. You don't already know its potential if you need to manipulate it, because if you did, you wouldn't need to manipulate it in the first place. You would just chose the best object for whatever purpose you needed it for upfront.)
I mean, Adolf ****** was an EIE who manipulated the crap out of a lot of people with compelling and captivating speeches until he ultimately failed and committed suicide. (But that's Fe in DA cognition.)
Typically out of character was intended to denote exceeding the limits set by others of that persons character. Not my own. Make more sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by fighter
I get a vague sense of circular reasoning in your response but I don't get it. Thanks for trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by fighter
Edit: I think you can see the potential first then manipulate an "object" so to me the two do not seem mutually exclusive.
People always perceive me as being very high strung. My whole life I've unintentionally inspired people to straighten up their behavior. If they're doing something stupid, and I look at them, they stop. Must be a look on my face.
i think in order to manipulate emotion you have to take in and perceive it. A big part of Fe is knowing what's socially appropriate at a given time. If my friend is crying and I want to make her feel better, I don't break into a happy dance or make a joke like I would with someone already in range of a good mood already, even though my goal may be to change her mood to a happier one. Instead, I commiserate. I take on an appropriately somber/angry/regretful/etc emotion, so that she can vent and then improve her mood. Anyway, assessing the potential of a person's or situations mood doesn't involve manipulating it. That's a separate process that comes first from which you can then choose to manipulate or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by fighter
I also kind of resent this idea that all Fe is just emotional manipulation. I think by and large we're just expressive people. Often we're very passionate, and that's contagious. I don't think we really set out to influence people's emotion in a calculated way; it just happens.
Thank you for this. I get it. It is also what I was playing with in my own head but wasn't sure what she was trying to express so my head started to spin. :indifferent2:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWholeEnglish
WowowowwowWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOOOOOOWWWWWW
WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWWWWWQuote:
Originally Posted by yeves
If there's any subject at hand I have really strong opinions about, I suddenly transform from my docile, idiot self into a raging basket case piece of shit and I just pummel them with megatons of anger and don't even realize it. I can even force myself to get explosively mad at anything. People don't even recognize me when I do it.
Lately I've realized I can even do it deliberately. I scare the living shit out of people sometimes.
Yes, I get this alot, but I get "why are you sad?" even more often
My response when people tell me to calm down is to angrily tell them I AM CALM. My relaxed state is a state of mentally wandering. Please don't interupt that. Contributions would be welcome, but then again, if you are the kind of person to tell me to calm down, then you'd probably mess up my thoughts with your "contributions". Some of this probably has to do with that narcissism that makes the core of my unconcious personality. Well, I can't say it isn't concious because I know about it, but still. :S
And when people ask me why I'm sad, I answer in a way to express that they are bothering me as well. Or I avoid the question.
I can get emotionally expressive when there is little emotion in me and entirely by accident. Though it rarely happens, as I need to really care about what I'm saying, to forget myself like that and appear angry, passionate and crude.
So I can be aggressive and confrontational in a debate for example with my LII brother, and have him accuse me of being angry, when I'm just trying to emphasize my words in order to impact him, if I'm talking louder with passion and conviction, or if I'm exaggerating would-be frustration/anger for everyone's amusement.
And then I get asked: "Why are you angry?"
I'M NOT YOU DUMBASS! :sparta:
:biggrin:
I do get this a lot from people.
It seems like all of my emotional expression is usually a little out of place or over or underexpressed though, not just anger.
Quite often. Once, while having one of the best days I can remember, a new friend asks, "Why do you look like you want to murder the world right now?"
To say the word manipulation implies a manipulator and this holds a negative connotation. I would choose to forgo this word altogether and simply call it energy transfer. That leaves room for possible kindness and nobility of spirit, which I believe is at the core of most normal people. Have you ever tried "creating and manipulating emotional states"? This concept sounds silly, forced and artificial.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBTL
I see it more as they get out of the way of emotional states and allow them to play out naturally. The situation is everything. Yet the context behind the feeling is not. Emotion, feelings, are manifestations of energy and I see betas working with energy. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed and is only transformed from one state to another. Therefore, Fe types work with energies that was either latent in the situation itself, for instance an exchange of sociability among other fellow prime mates, or is transmuted from the individual him or herself into the environment without necessarily having any intended purpose. This exchange of energy creates mental/emotional states within others as the message is transferred usually via body language and linguistically vocalized sounds and sentences. More subtle transfer of energy occurs through the special spooky aspects of perceptual cognition. Others receive these messages and a cascade of chemical and neurological cause effect processes respond to this stimuli. It is, at its core, a transfer of energy.
The closest analogy for authentic energy transfer comes through actors and method acting. They are able to feel emotional states through memory recall and association. Because of the reflective nature of human mind, others share in a borrowed experience the mind tricks the body into believing it is having. This transference is conscious Fe. Although the first cause was an authentic feeling to begin with. The best method actors believe in what they feel and so trick their bodies into believing it as well. Thereby building up potential energy that needs a place to flow. The actor allows the emotional state to flow within themselves and trust the body will express in such a way that matches their chosen memory state. Then they get out the way. Compounded years of this informational elemental habit in ego and this person will have honed her craft.
There are four ethics of emotions individuals and four others orientated towards it, some of which are arguably equally as good at transferring energy, so let's not lump them all into this popular portrait of one machiavellian called Hamlet. Eh?
One last word on this concept of manipulation so just bear with me.
Any sociotype might have the proclivity to manipulate for any myriad of reason. Maybe they learned to do this in childhood. Maybe they saw how to get their needs met by manipulating others. Good or bad, right or wrong, socionics has nothing to say about manipulation itself as it is outside the realm of Modal A and most other literature, including the anecdotal ones.
A SLI is just as likely to manipulate as an ESI (okay maybe not an ESI, hahaha). The same could be said for an LII, or an SLE. Its not the total domain of EIE.
What socionics can say about manipulation is what tool is used to do it. In this way, an SEI may manipulate through his Si by suggesting a course of action that would benefit his sense of comfort, perhaps by feigning illness to get out of work; as an LSE may manipulate through her Te by calling on her knowledge of product regulation to benefit her business by circumventing the law. An EII may easily and effortlessly manipulate by using her knowledge of a coworkers personal life in order to guilt them into doing more work. An SLI might manipulate his IEE lover into leaving him alone when he needs to recharge his Si. These are IE tools, paint brushes in different shapes and sizes and the expression is endless for meeting the needs of the individual who uses them.
Manipulation as I understand it is not type specific. Although any and all types may choose to manipulate the way in which might be type influenced.
Yes. People most often question my sanity when I'm in an excited state. I get a lot of "Why do you look sad?", too, when I'm underexcited...
This too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega
Come to think of it, I was asked if I was mad like three times today.
Yes, I hear "why do you look so mean", "why do you look stuck up", "why don't you smile", "are you okay". I could strangle people. Consequently, I've developed glabellar lines lol