I have now once again read Stratiyevskaya's descriptions of INTj and INTp. And my impression is that the INTj description fits my father well, whereas the INTp description is a good characterization of me in most parts. I hope that as many as possible of you who believe that you are an INTj or an INTp read through both her descriptions carefully. It takes some effort, I know, but it might be worth it. There are many more interesting parts there besides those I am now about to mention.
If we focus on the Stratiyevkaya INTj for the moment, we find some statements about the INTj's attitude towards socitey that in some ways almost seem to contradict some parts of the descriptions of the quadras, for example those on Rick's site. Here are some quotes from Stratiyevskaya and my comments:
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Robesp'er is always politically active (quality, inherent in all representatives of first and second kvadry). It always disturb the problems of society, in which it lives, disturb the social- humanitarian problems of its environment.
That is clearly in line with my experience of INTjs, and it fits my father much better than it fits me. That is also expressed in our writings.
My creative works of art, mostly fictional writings, can be seen as expressions of l'art pour l'art. I invent fantasy worlds with little or no relation to the real world. Or I write short stories where, in ordinary life situations, something completely absurd happens. It is easy to see parallels with the "magic realism" of writers like Julio Cortazar or Garcia Marquez.
My father's fictional writings (two unpublished novels) have a clear political content. And he has said to me that it is important for him to have a political purpose. That might also be said about his scientific works in psychology and system theory.
But one may start to wonder how that fits this characterization of the Alpha quadra:
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Types from the Alpha Quadra enjoy freely exchanging new ideas and theories as a form of intellectual leisure. They like to systematize knowledge and create new categories and speculative hypotheses without necessarily intending to see their theories tested or implemented (subdued :Te: ).
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... as an example it is possible to compare "robesp'erovskiy socialism" of the times of great French revolution and period of "war Communism" in Russia with socialism, accepted in modern Sweden, which today can be considered the model of the realization of robesp'erovskoy social theory.
I was surprised when Dmitri Lytov suggested that Sweden was an INTj country. I haven't seen it that way. But when I read a review today of a new book in Swedish about the Swedish mentality and its relation to society, I began to see what it could mean. The central thesis of the authors was that our relation to society is a combination of extreme individualism and a willingness to accept the government of a strong welfare state, that might help us be free from, among other things, the family ties. That now starts to make perfect sense, and it could explain some of my father's political views.
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In each of the representatives of this type its subjective idea about the "standard" and about the "luxury", that was formed under the effect of the obtained training and prevailing mental'nosti, relative to which he coordinates the distribution of possibilities (and the distribution of material goods) both for itself and for its environment. "person himself to bring up is obliged" – to the development of the personal abilities Of robesp'ery usually is paid sufficiently serious attention, but, as a rule, they always try this to make taking into account the real possibilities of applying the individual abilities. For example, if adult person is trained for a new profession to any "practical" specialty, this Robesp'er only greets. But if man at the ripe age expends last money on his personal instruction in music or in drawing, this behavior it will seem, putting it mildly, in frivolous.
Again, we could compare that with the quadra descriptions. For my part, I am clearly opposed to what is said in the last two sentences in the quote.
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But it is also oriented to the ethics of its duala of Hugo, which exactly is based on the principles of ethical validity (since it is calculated for the perception by its Robesp'erom), and first of all is checked etichnost' in the distribution of possibilities, being that allotted by equal rights it is not possible to misuse by unequal possibilities – roughly speaking: the one who can eat rapidly, is obligated to consider the possibilities of that, who eats slowly. Otherwise the society begins to live according to the law of "jungle".
Things like this I see as consistent with the tendency to socialism and socialistic views, which are always present in the Swedish society. I don't identify with that any more. In the last years I have bedun to feel more and more alienated from the typical Swedish mentality.
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On the basis of the ethical considerations, Robesp'er is checked the valid (equal) distribution of material goods for all members of society without the exception. For example, if in its family receiving children bring up, they are allotted exactly by the same rights and responsibilities, as its own of ("... we with the sister arranged picnic for the children: they divided entire food into an equal quantity – to each it was reached on two cutlets even to one patty.
This is a very accurate description of how both my parents (INTj and ESFj) treated me and my two younger sisters when we were little kids.
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It is very methodical, in everything he tries to find system – it considers as the its indispensable condition for the successful fulfillment of work. In the work it is characterized by accuracy, it scrupulously studies details. Simply so it entrusts no one, are checked both itself and partners. To check its very it is usually superfluous. Sequential and persistent. Any matter attempts to bring to the end, it does not love to throw on the middle.
The INTps are also focused on details when they work, according to Stratiyevskaya, so that might not be relevant here. What I think is relevant, though, is that she describes the INTj as a J type (especially the last sentence), clearly compatible with how J types are described in MBTI.
In contrast, let's take a look at some quotes from Stratiyevskaya's INTp description:
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Following its constant tendency to avoid possible errors, Balzac frequently the beret to itself the role of strange observer, than gives occasion for the charge in the passive relation to the life.
Fits me perfectly. But how does it relate to this description of the Gamma quadra?:
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This quadra believes that ideas and fortuitous events should be turned into something profitable and marketable — something that does some kind of work for people. The Gamma Quadra values self-sacrifice in the name of serving society.
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If we give some work to it, but not to appoint the period of its fulfillment, Balzac will not at all consider this as the assigned work: he either will forget about it or he ignores. It should argumentatively explain, for which it is necessary and as its performance soon is required. Only it will be able to receive task in earnest after this. This approach to the matter is explained by the tendency not to make anything excess, not to make that no one it is necessary.
Clearly consistent with how P types are described in both Socionics and MBTI. I can identify with every sentence in that quote.
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Balzac is always opened for the perception of new sensations. He with the children's curiosity will try new food.
This is perhaps a small detail, but it points out a difference between myself and my father. I clearly identify with it.
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Special attention is given to leisure and sleep. In some representatives of this type its, individual mode of operation and leisure is added. Sometimes Balzac does not see for himself special misdeed in falling asleep, where to it this suddenly was wanted. Sometimes it is possible to see Balzac with that sleeping at the work site or even during the monotonous work, that continues it to automatically make with hands, that sleeps during the lesson, during hearing of musical program.
I was somewhat surprised to find that in Stratiyevskaya's description, because I cannot recall having seen anything similar in MBTI. But it actually captures one of my personality traits pretty well. And don't you agree that it is full of P-ishness? It seems to clearly compatible with how INTPs are described in MBTI.
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In any ethical awkward situation Balzac feels himself very restlessly. Sometimes in the searches for output he aggravates the created stress, no longer discussing, rights it or it is guilty, striving as it is possible faster "to ischerpat'" situation how to it this not threatened. In such minutes it is capable to the act, about which it will then possible regret, but for the moment this for it does not have a value: its reason by poly-awn is subordinated to the whirlpool of emotions, before which it is helpless, and therefore it does not belong to itself.
This is also an accurate description of how I sometimes act under stress. The same phenomenon is accentuated in the MBTI descriptions of INTPs.
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Balzac never attempts to lead, preferring to remain figure "number two" - by "shady" leader with the powerful patron.
And so is this one. Clearly INTP in the MBTI sense, too.
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Balzac does not know how and does not love to subordinate someone to his will. He also does not transfer straight volitional pressure on himself.
So true of me. I wish I had more of the J discipline.
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Irrespectively of its individual qualities precisely the device of personal life frequently causes in Balzac serious difficulties. Specifically, here all "weak points" its psychological type "work" against it: and passive relation to the life, and deep pessimism, and the unwillingness to make an excess effort, and fear before the possible experiences, and the lack of understanding of basic ethical concepts, and the overestimation of its own possibilities.
More and more P traits in the MBTI sense. And a correct characterization of me.
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Frequently it demolishes itself apropos of its own missed possibilities - inevitable consequence of its passively observant relation to the life.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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In any dispute Balzac holds demonstrative neutrality, trying no one not "to accompany". Its relation to any act it expresses not as particular, personal opinion, but seemingly advances certain, as it it seems, objective and correct evaluation. Balzac loves himself to place in the position of judge for it characteristically not simple to voice his opinion, namely "to carry judgment" for each question (even if to it it is proposed to only discuss theme).
This is extremely accurate. I can identify with it 100 %. And every part of it can be found in the MBTI descriptions of INTPs.
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Accepting new information, Balzac immediately tries to connect it into the already existing system of knowledge. The information, which contradicts the prevailing systems or destroys them, it accepts very critically.
This have been said of INTjs too, I think. But it is equally true of INTPs in MBTI. I'm not sure how to explain it.