Mirage relations between SLI and SEE (ISTp and ESFp)
This is a collaborative project with Eliza Thomason and myself. Most of the observations made and reported here are from a few of my clients and friends who are in this relationship dynamic. And, Eliza too has experience with this relations. This is a much needed contribution in this community as I find very little material on this relation.
Relations between SLI and SEE start like most other relations. Common interest and physical attraction, the two conventional approaches take a role in this early relations. Perhaps what drew them both in the relations is their practical nature. I often hear SEE say “I buy nonstick pans because they are cheaper” and so do SLI.
Eliza: I noticed my SLI brother and his SEE girlfriends/wife - serial, not affairs! - are alike in this, too, at first anyway. Both are thrifty. But SEE always splurges on something, and SLI does very little of that. SLIs seem to be ALWAYS practical. SEE will buy something she just has to have, like an expensive leather jacket for herself, while being thrifty in many other ways. My SLI brother's SEE wife, on my last visit, when they were already divorced(she is the mother of my nephew) showed me her house, her garden full of tacky applances and broken toys as her funky kind of unique garden decorating she took pride in, and in her room, she showed me her pride and joy: a "whore's chair", she was so proud of and I felt inwardly sickened, and backed away from the gross thing. It was rather Victorian in style, and had all kinds of pull-out things on it {foot rests armrest etc., and I don't want to know what for). Ugh. Disgusting. I wondered how many marriages were ruined by what went on around that chair, and how many diseases... ick.
Anyway,my SLI brother would not splurge on a thing like that. He has a Mercedes Benz motorcycle, which he fixes himself and drives to work... same job he has worked in for years.
And that is another SLI quality I know-working the same job for years and years. SEE, often,more known for not working, or hoping from shallow job to shallow job... Though my brother's current girlfriend works in the office at the Mercedes Benz dealer he works at (my brother is service manager) and he knew her forquite awhile there before he started to date her after being alone for awhile afer divorce.
As the relationship develops, SEE becomes increasingly concerned that the SLI pays less and less attention to their physical surroundings. The SLI becomes less interested with cleaning up their surroundings, fixing things, and begins complaining and whinning in search of sympathy and affection because in the SLI and IEE relations, small work is handed to IEE or not even taken care of as they focus on latent potential.
SLI's response to being continually proded and made aware of their personal and surrounding and physical state by SEE is something the SLI struggles and tends to fall back into his Si, and that function takes further the relations.
The SLI begins to want his state of homeostasis, and achieve it by rest and relaxation, doing work only in those periods when they are not reflectively listening to the music (which brings them to that state of relaxation and reflection), hence, they maybe at periods of inactivity. The SEE, being an extravert, is a busy bee, finding projects, making projects and hence her proding begins to put SLI in perodic states of fury because he finds some task superfluous.
Also, SEE, being very sensitive (as a perceptual type who hears things loudly finds it difficult to let things go because their senses are so aware) she often experiences distress, and cries over his picky and repetitive proding about her repeated errors.
Interesting. When I find my SLI's homestassis too much for me,I just tell him what I would like him to do and he does it! LOL. I always ask nicely and directly, "Honey, could you please...[some specific suggestion]" and he just does it.*This directness is something that SEE lacks as they often express just blatant emotions like crying, which the SLI will often get very bothered by. Also, sometimes he does not feel it necessary to clean the kitchen after dinner,as he says he will take care of in the morning after I leave for work.But I like to go to bed and wake up with a clean kitchen. So our compromise (easily made, no discussion; we just do it) is for us to work together to pile the pre-soaked dishes together and put food away something he doesn't mind letting go but is a NEVER for me) clean counter-tops sink everything so there is just a tidy pile to take care of in the morning. Working together is fast and often we just finish the job and load the dishwasher... Also he thinks that cleaning the kitchen but not the counters is enough, so I end up cleaning the counters while he takes out garbage. he always does the garbage. And the cat litter. So I don' t mind polishing the kettle and the sink!
Working together with an SLI is key to getting him to do things because they appreciate companionship in the process of the work and while they work they often like to talk about things.
Being very sensitive (perceptually) of their external environment, SEE observes others actions and when certain actions strike her ethics she begins to vocalize them and becomes emotional, reacting to it in a generalized sense. Sometimes the non consistent behavior of SEE with regards to their personal surroundings cause them to be both very clean and very messy. With cleanliness, they may pick a project and do it well, however often they create clutter and don't deal with it in an organized fashion. They may not clean up claiming to not being able to stand it or claiming to be “allergic” to it. Trying to get out of tasks they may claim to not doing it because they didn't make as much mess. They often just want to pursue whatever sensation they want at the moment as their senses dictate.
She doesn't like being forced to do things and often ignores the rules and does what she wants although she does not like to be accused of not following the rules, and never likes it when she's recognized for having broken the rules, thus she becomes sensitive and emotional. SEE will become moody and howl with offense when she is called out on something by the SLI, and denies it Reasoning with them is impossible because SEE recognized control and power in situations. Eventually, if the marriage persists, the SLI will give over a lot of power and control of things to the SLI becoming less vocal and objectionable. Not believing in hard and fast rules, she defieys her husbands requests to not take her child out in the cold. She returns home to an SLI who gets upset saying “I told you not to take her out, you never listen, you always do want to do what you want.” She responds to this by saying “I didn't see what the big deal was to take her out for a few minutes.”*
When it comes to space and territory, the SEE*is*unmatched in it's mark. She will want to*weild*it however she can. Her husband, if it's the most desired object in the room, is one who she'll keep a very sharp eye on and follow around when in the company of many women as to let him and other know of this territory or keen interest. If an SEE seeks to defend someone, she will jump in growling like a mother bear.
SLI often has latent reactions and exaggeration of effects to things that they have experience because they get in their heads when the actual event is happening and not observing the event as the SEE's dual ILI would. When the information processes the SLI realizes that they have to express their disapointment. He begins to bewilder and catch SEE off-guard when he finally recalls the events to her he voices his disatisfaction about her actions in such a way that upsets her because she feels that he's picking a fight with her or accusing her. This further upsets her sensitive perception.
An example SLI's latent reactions and exaggeration is, on a drive to some place the SEE may speed on graveled road. The SLI will not say anything at that moment, and later on in the drive, the SLI will suddenly react to her driving and say something to this regard, “You should have taken the other road;*you always drive so fast, you're ruined the tread of the tires *you always do this” -[generally one would consider this to be a bitchy mood]*to which the SEE will react by “When have I done that?!*I don't even drive here often.!” He'll remain quiet and unreactive,*but may keep pushing other things she did when she's done in the past that he holds on to. By reading him well, she would have checked with him (as in plan with him to take the less bumpy road before they ever even got on the gravel road). The arguments*often*end*with her*crying.*This would play out differently with an*IEE and EII, whose*typical response to the SLI's accusatory and latent reactions are to either joke it off or offer sympathy and support for his aggrivated state, sometimes throught the use of**these two types will look over the details of the exaggeration and will ask “honey, what's bothering you” perhaps*it was something unrelated like the thought of their loved one being sick, was it misdirected anger. Elisa says “Yes, this is exactly what I do. And I do start thinking things, and saying them, like, 'Have I not been consulting your opinion enough? Would you rather I do that? Are you tired?" and one of my favorites "Did you take your vitamins today?' LOL. SLI can expect those kinds of questions from me if he loses his temper. I am genuinely interested in what has thrown him off. And he doesn't mind, and starts thinking himself why he was annoyed. At any rate, he knows I care what he thinks.”
SLI can be demanding time-nazis. He'll rush her,*“Hurry up we have to get there by 1pm.” This would be otherwise okay*if the SEE wasn't so wrapped up in the external world. Her focus is still on her hair, her dress, the child, those things are taking up time and she has to do them and not just drop things and go. She regains her happy go jolly mood rather quickly. Instead of distracted focus where SEE wants to be in control of what she does and her time, ILI will often let them have things that way, IEE, SLI's dual will also be hurried but unlike SEE, IEE are not distracted by specific tasks such as tring to find the perfect scarf that will match the dress rather than scattered attention, sometimes IEE's efforts are with taking care of their partner like grabbing fresh water for the road for both of them. This is an angle of :Ne: because it's the latent potention “we may get thirsty”. In any case, unlike SEE's reaction to the event, IEE finds that SLI's fussing is never too much. That is the key that it's not too much therefore it's not going to be bothersome and stike any sensitive emotions.
SEE may burst out in anger about getting nagged, usually something she ought to be nagged for, too, and though she denies it I think she knows it, but she can super-quick get over it and be in a good mood. SEE tend to be more moody than IEE in general.
Setting unrealistic goals (according to the SEE perspective) is one area of contention between the two. These rules are seen as “dumb” by the SEE. An example is when a SEE daughter is caught *slurping*tea out of her spoon from the cup. That disrupts the internal peace of the SLI and he tells here “you can't drink tea with a spoon, you're making a mess”, and*the SEE daughter says “why”*-*already she would like details and to understand how things work.*But he*is an energy conserver and doesn't*go into explaination of these rules. He says “because I said so” rather than offer an adequate explanation.*This infuriates the SEE mom,*who of course understand where her daughter is coming from.*
Often times these interactions have evolved:*where the SEE mom once tolerated the rules, supporting*her husband*even though she didn't agree, she*still told her daughter,*“You have to listen to*Dad”*and**later her patience wears on her and the*SEE mom isn't so pleasant any more. She begins to challenge the SLI saying,*“Why don't you explain to her why you want that done; don't just tell her she can't do it.” He reacts with “I don't have to, I'm the 'boss of the sauce';*she has to listen to what I say.”* This approach comes off as shallow and unacceptable to SEE and she gets*angry and distressed at her husband.*SEE says, "If I thought she was making a mess and it would have been a bother to clean it up I would have just put a towel under her tea cup!"*So you can see that their support of their children and parenting methods are very different from one another,*and also how they communicate that to each other is different, and probably incomplete.*The SEE lets her daughter roam and explore the SLI tries to confine the daughters actions. The SLI says to the little girl “you can't go play unless you finish all your burger” the SEE sees this as an unrealistic*expectation*because she doesn't like seeing the daughter forced to do something she can't.*
The more distressing the relations get the more external sources the SEE will look for to try to find information, explainations of how to deal with real world conflicts she faces. She asks for therapy but he consideres them “stupid and pointless” so he has some objection of these methods that she thinks may help.
More and more repeated situations like this cause the SLI to “hand over a lot of power” to the SEE and remain ever so quiet as to keep her from her reactions because even he begins to sense her*extreme sensitivity and being Si he doesn't want to see her become frazzled.*
Emotional manipulations, being extraverts, are not far off for SEE who loudly complain or cry to have her way. The SEE wife, in her more aggressive ways and her*confusingfeeling-motive had frustrated SLI to a point where he just got*stubborn*on those things and said “I'm the boss” because he found no other way to simply state his authority and he did not want to engage in conversations he would lose...
Their biggest conflict surrounds poor communication and differing parenting styles.
Nevertheless SLI adores her and strives to keep their relations in tact.*He tries to take care of her and his family the best he can, for now and for the future. He will carefully consider finances of the future, making investments and saving money by doing with as little as he can without disturbing their hobbies if their finances prohibit, striving to live on little resources now for a securer future later, he has the wife invest in a 401K, the bulk of her paycheck, and he purchases a house which he feels will appreciate in value and has it rented out now for a big return in the future. He builds security.
The SEE is a loving mother, intelligent, fun, sensitive, and caring. She appreciates that her husband is loyal and faithful. This inspires her to that as well. She's willing to listen and fix their problems, to talk about things and reach a consensus.
As an Illusionary relations to Duality they can find things in common and find each other fascinating. However they have trouble in understanding each other's reasons and motives. For instance when SEE wants to seek therapy, the SLI finds in redundant and the SLI finds it redundant when the SEE is inspired to purchase something of aesthetically pleasing accusing her of spending money they don't have. They expect different kinds of activity from each other.