Type me

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

What does creative Fe look like?

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It is about trying to affect the reactive emotions of another person, which is usually done by expressive body language and can be heard in the tone of voice. E.g. a good-natured SEI would have a somewhat "singing" voice, with tones going up and down and stretching the length of the syllables. The important thing is that, unlike ESEs, such behavior often mainly manifests in social interactions. So your video, which I consider emotionally (Fe) very flat, does by itself not prove you're not SEI. You could also be just socially unengaged, tired or depressed.

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...fi-and-fe.html

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Originally Posted by consentingadult

It is about trying to affect the reactive emotions of another person, which is usually done by expressive body language and can be heard in the tone of voice. E.g. a good-natured SEI would have a somewhat "singing" voice, with tones going up and down and stretching the length of the syllables. The important thing is that, unlike ESEs, such behavior often mainly manifests in social interactions. So your video, which I consider emotionally (Fe) very flat, does by itself not prove you're not SEI. You could also be just socially unengaged, tired or depressed.

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...fi-and-fe.html

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what would be the perceivable differences between SEI-Fe and SEI-Si from your perspective?

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Originally Posted by aisa

what would be the perceivable differences between SEI-Fe and SEI-Si from your perspective?

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I'm not into subtype theory, so I can't answer your question.

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Originally Posted by consentingadult

I'm not into subtype theory, so I can't answer your question.

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ok, fair enough

Off the top of my head, so could probably use some editing:

Fe creative implies Fi demonstrative. So personal levels of attraction/repulsion towards something/someone plays an important role in their worldview. The relationship is a prime influence of the thoughts.

The creative function is how we make contact with the world and with other people.

I consider Fe as being akin to utilizing information obtained by mirror neurons. Via body language cues, you get ideas on (or actually feel) how a person is feeling and how strongly they are feeling it, (and all linked back with your own attraction repulsion Fi demonstrative). And for Fe creative, this is how they make contact with other people...by influencing the environment in such a way as to alter what in the environment is triggering which affect. Basically, Fi gets translated into producing Fe.
(Think of a node Fe with arrows pointing to Fi, and Fi arrows poiting to Fe, as in a cycle.)

Si and Ni provide a projection of what direction, speed, etc the other person is heading towards, and how to influence the trajectory/path. Si will intercede via Si, physical concrete changes. And Ni will intercede via an intuitive path (built off various abstract theories they have learned about). I forgot the term...but it's a point in a system where leverage at that one point can alter the entire system's performance.

Most likely the SiFe will physically alter themselves, such as if they reduce their own muscle tension (or create tension). This in turn influences the other person's mirror neurons. As in the other person sees the SiFe person relax more the other person in turn becomes a bit more relaxed. The other person doesn't have to consciously think about relaxing, nor be consciously aware of the SiFe's body language. The mirror neurons just get hit and this creates the changes.

In ways like this, Fe creatives are viewed as affecting the reactive emotions of another person, or affecting the atmospheric mood, etc.

The decisive IEI's are more intentional in creating these changes in others. But I don't think SEI typically do this consciously. It'd be more like an automatic reaction. As they change their own affect, it changes the other person's affect, and the cycle goes back and forth until the SEI has reached a comfortable point for themselves.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ind-Reading-Fe

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Originally Posted by anndelise

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ind-Reading-Fe

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the link doesn't seem to work?

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Originally Posted by consentingadult

If I have to go by this one video (which in itself is not valid), I would say: where is the creative Fe? Where is the Mobilizing Ti?

I would like to see a video of Suedehead where he interacts with a good friend instead of a web cam or question list, and see how his creative function manifests itself. Until then, I'm going to put my chips on SLI>LSI.

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I agree that his vibe is more like SLI, but what about the remark about individualism toward the end of the video? That made me consider democratic over arisotratic.

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Originally Posted by aisa

the link doesn't seem to work?

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Were you signed in when you clicked it? It's one of my forum blog posts about Fe. Forum Blogs can only be seen when signed in.

"...Tranquility...soothing...Harmony..."
Content of conversation not mattering only the effects on the intangibles.
Power being meaningless. Uncomfortable around aggressive people.
Affects of music, photography and movies being the thing. Romance and sex seen as easily filling life.
Not knowing "what practical to do for kids" being an issue.
Wanting help understanding theoretical and logical things as not to be helpless to others ideas and being envious of people who come up with their own theories. (uncanny precision, if not question begging)
....
SEI most definitely

How about ESI-Fi, harmonizing-subtype?

Possible identicals (ESI's) for comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpuQCKJIf0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65amv0E_sgI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu7dApJNQ9U

Can you see any similarities?

The type of behavior some seem to expect from Fe-ego types sounds like..extroversion, frankly (complete candidness, lots of gesticulations, getting up into people's space, etc..no offense).

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Originally Posted by Iris

I agree that his vibe is more like SLI, but what about the remark about individualism toward the end of the video? That made me consider democratic over arisotratic.

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In my understanding of Socionics, Reinin dichotomies are an invalid theory, so I can't say anything about that.

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

The type of behavior some seem to expect from Fe-ego types sounds like..extroversion, frankly (complete candidness, lots of gesticulations, getting up into people's space, etc..no offense).

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Some things you learn to take with a grain of salt. (Even my own answers.)
For example,
Often people confuse an 'Extrovert with strong Fe' as being what 'Fe' is.
Also, think in terms of Information Processing, rather than particular behaviors.
And differing levels of control of that kind of information. Refined Fe will look different than when the info is used coarsely. Conscious awareness will look differently than subconscious influence of the info.
And, of course, levels of stress at that moment. Some people become more expansive (taking up more space with gesticulations, intruding on others space, etc), and some withdraw into a shell. This is body language, yes, but not necessarily Fe ego, nor strong Fe function.


(Again, i am not trying to push you into a typing.)

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Originally Posted by anndelise

Were you signed in when you clicked it? It's one of my forum blog posts about Fe. Forum Blogs can only be seen when signed in.

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hmm yeah I was signed in...
actually this is not the first time... I just thought those posts aren't there and that's why I can't see them, but as you obviously posted a link to sth that should be visible then probably it's sth to do with my account...?
I always get this response whenever I try to click on anyone's blog links... "Error 503 : Service Temporarily Unavailable"

Any ideas why?:confused2:

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

How about ESI-Fi, harmonizing-subtype?

Possible identicals (ESI's) for comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpuQCKJIf0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65amv0E_sgI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu7dApJNQ9U

Can you see any similarities?

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hmm.. tbh you're less expressive in the video you posted than them. The suggestion of you posting a video with interaction is actually quite a good one.
But if you don't feel like doing this, then I guess it all boils down to whether you feel you relate to ESIs more than to SEIs? You ofc might relate to both, but what does your instinct tell you?
I know two male ESI-Se in real life so they act differently than ESI-Fi would so it's difficult for me to compare you with them. You certainly don't remind me SEI-Fe either. So what I'm left with is comparing you to myself where I can see some similarities or ESI-Fi - and I don't know any. So there's bound to be a bias on my side clearly.

How does interaction go though? Do you feel more comfortable with ILIs and LIEs than LIIs and ILEs?
Conflicting or super-ego relations don't mean a neccessarily open conflict and trouble-some interactions but these relations are bound to me more difficult communication-wise. When I'm talking with ILIs and LIEs on a superficial level we can interact just fine, but when I start talking about sth that's important to me I feel like I'm trying to translate my thoughts into their "language". I don't get this feeling with LIIs and ILEs...

This is what makes socionics so hard and interesting. The human mind grasps at stereotypes and so tries to process the socionics stuff as rule of thumbs and guidelines. Leading to Fe = social extroversion for instance. (also SEIs are cooking maids and ILE's are unemotional conmen, wait, that last part is true ^^ )

Also, the problem is kinda that there seems to be no Socionics for Dummies yet. so instead of getting knowledge first and type second people start out by finding their type, retroactively forer'ing everything into fitting that typing. Than the doubt starts and you learn a bit of socionics and you find out it's not stereotypically, but wait, that means your identity-statement now is false. ERROR ERROR does not compute, we're now in a phase 5 security crisis. Implement either one of the following protocols:

1 Reconstruct whatever you've read about socionics to fit your type (I'm looking at a certain user)
2 Get retyped (and hope your peers on this forum tell you, yes, you ARE the cool type!)
3 Delve into socionics and lose faith in humanity, your sanity and your soul (@hkkmr ;-) )
4 Enjoy the chaos while doing 2 over and over again while hugging SEI's (yours truely)
5 Write a long parting post and leave the forum with a bang (you'll be back, but maybe you'll be missed meanwhile)
6 Troll the shit out of everyone and masochistically allow HKKMR to flog you over and over again (again a certain few members come to mind)

Now, this could be solved if someone would be willing to condense the immense and utterly incomprehensible body of texts on socionics into an easy to read, step by step explanation of Socionics. Even if this would not be the end all, it would be a good start for new members not to get into this subject completely without direction and guidance.

OFC part of the fun of this forum is watching newlings flail around with types and typings and laugh yourself silly about the debates about interpretation, but than, tastes differ ;-)

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Originally Posted by anndelise

Some things you learn to take with a grain of salt. (Even my own answers.)
For example,
Often people confuse an 'Extrovert with strong Fe' as being what 'Fe' is.
Also, think in terms of Information Processing, rather than particular behaviors.
And differing levels of control of that kind of information. Refined Fe will look different than when the info is used coarsely. Conscious awareness will look differently than subconscious influence of the info.
And, of course, levels of stress at that moment. Some people become more expansive (taking up more space with gesticulations, intruding on others space, etc), and some withdraw into a shell. This is body language, yes, but not necessarily Fe ego, nor strong Fe function.


(Again, i am not trying to push you into a typing.)

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Originally Posted by aisa

hmm yeah I was signed in...
actually this is not the first time... I just thought those posts aren't there and that's why I can't see them, but as you obviously posted a link to sth that should be visible then probably it's sth to do with my account...?
I always get this response whenever I try to click on anyone's blog links... "Error 503 : Service Temporarily Unavailable"

Any ideas why?:confused2:

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I am sooo, not computer literate. I have no idea. :confused:

If you're still interested in looking at what I had linked to, (but please don't feel like it's expected)
click my name,
then click view blog entries.
On my screen, the blog i am referring to is on page 3 and is titled: "MCV: Mind Reading Fe".

(Note, it does use aspect terms which I covered/defined in an earlier blog post, so might be a little confusing at the start.
"MCV"=my current views (written in 2011 but not much has changed))

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Meged-Ovcharov

Have you read these duality descriptions? I think it is helpful to try to imagine what kind of personality you would want to help you on a project.

Also, which description most closely fits the contribution you see yourself making in a dual relationship?

i'm probably Fi-ESI and i like your aesthetic taste and you seem cool but we come off way different on cam.
if you were IEI, wouldn't you be Ni subtype since you're not particularly emotive? i see Ni in your artistic tastes but not in your posts.

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Originally Posted by anndelise

I am sooo, not computer literate. I have no idea. :confused:

If you're still interested in looking at what I had linked to, (but please don't feel like it's expected)
click my name,
then click view blog entries.
On my screen, the blog i am referring to is on page 3 and is titled: "MCV: Mind Reading Fe".

(Note, it does use aspect terms which I covered/defined in an earlier blog post, so might be a little confusing at the start.
"MCV"=my current views (written in 2011 but not much has changed))

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Yeah I did that too (now and before) and the same thing appears on screen. :(

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Originally Posted by aisa

___________
DISCLAIMER: obviously smn hacked my account.:mad: I'm a serious SEI, so obviously I don't have time to waste on some silly questionnaires when I've only just finished washing the dishes, have to walk the dog, clean the windows and carpets, dust the shelves, do the laundry, cook dinner for 40 guests, sort the clothing into colours and shapes and fold the socks, iron the underwear... oh dear, oh dear I better get going cause I still need go fetch the newspaper and slippers for my... master.
...and let's not forget I still need to frizz up my hair and jump into a fancy dress and a fur coat and hat.

Pfft :P

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Love the disclaimer! I'd put it in your signature :D

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

Love the disclaimer! I'd put it in your signature :D

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oi! I'm way too serious to have such utter nonsense in my sig, duh! :P

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

The type of behavior some seem to expect from Fe-ego types sounds like..extroversion, frankly (complete candidness, lots of gesticulations, getting up into people's space, etc..no offense).

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I have 3 SEIs in my life, and that description would not apply to any of them. They have a welcoming vibe when you approach them, but you mostly have to approach them. They are very sensitive to others' spaces, very chill. 2 of them are quite remote until you engage them and then their warmth becomes apparent. As a contrast, my SLI friends have a remote and cold demeanor, but I find that underneath, they are just as loving as the SEIs.

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

How about ESI-Fi, harmonizing-subtype?

Possible identicals (ESI's) for comparison...

Can you see any similarities?

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I think you should consider all of the ISxx types and especially ISxjs since you have compared yourself to people of these types on several occasions. This takes a lot of trudging through the stereotypes, but there's really no hurry to settle on some type or other, and it may be worth it in the sense of improving typing skills.

You can also use intertype relations to 'align' your type - ask yourself: how do you relate to ILEs, xIEs, IEEs? does an SLI feel more like a benefactor to you than an EII? which types seem strange to you even from their descriptions? etc.

From the video you reminded me of an Ti-LSI guy that my ILE friend has dated. He is e9 in the enneagram and so he's very mellow and peaceful and dislikes aggression and conflict of any kind. Nevertheless he can put people in their place if someone trespasses on him or his gf and friends. His enneagram type + being "inert" subtype combine in a way that goes contrary to the conventional Se-ego stereotypes. Ti-LSIs and Fi-ESIs have intensified "inert" Ni and weakened creative Se - as a result of which they are often on the passive "inert" side, don't actively seek out contact and engagement, spend a lot of time in their own thoughts due to increased introversion, in social interaction they are receptive rather than initiating (would rather passively observe and listen than talk themselves), and all in all don't particularly fit into "aggressor" stereotypes that are associated with Se-egos. There is a possibility that you're of "inert" subtype of ISxj types w/ 'debilitated' Se in which case you won't have many of the traits often associated with "aggressor" types.

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Originally Posted by aisa

Yeah I did that too (now and before) and the same thing appears on screen. :(

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Would you be ok if I started a thread on this error msg in Site Discussion? I would need to include your name in case it has something to do with your account. Or you could, whichever is preferable to you. Or we could just let this ride itself out if you would prefer that. Your choice. :)




No pressure.




Clock is ticking.



Jk :D

When I think of someone who could possibly be my dual (or at least someone who I've been enamored by), the first person that comes to mind is a crush that I had throughout highschool that I can barely shake to this day; she was confident, perceptive, optimistic, sociable, consistently prim in appearance, socially independent (never clinged to any particular social group for too long), sensual, highly energetic, transcendent, ambitious, seemingly organized, accomplished, showed good taste, intelligent, witty, etc...While this is a fairly broad, inconclusive list of traits, every other girl throughout those 4 years paled in comparison to her in my eyes...and to a lesser extent, still do, even through I'd like to believe that I've moved on.

I've always thought that a relationship with her, or someone similar, could go pretty well...but I didn't have the confidence to make it happen.

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

When I think of someone who could possibly be my dual (or at least someone who I've been enamored by), the first person that comes to mind is a crush that I had throughout highschool that I can barely shake to this day; she was confident, optimistic, sociable, consistently prim in appearance, sensual, highly energetic, ambitious, seemingly organized, accomplished, intelligent, witty, etc...While this is a fairly broad, inconclusive list of traits, every other girl throughout those 4 years paled in comparison to her in my eyes...and to a lesser extent, still do, even through I'd like to believe that I've moved on.

I've always thought that a relationship with her, or someone similar, could go pretty well...but I didn't have the confidence to make it happen.

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ESE/ESI, possibly SEI MAAAAAYBE EIE (but than all the good attributes were fake ^^ )(jk)

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Originally Posted by anndelise

Would you be ok if I started a thread on this error msg in Site Discussion? I would need to include your name in case it has something to do with your account. Or you could, whichever is preferable to you. Or we could just let this ride itself out if you would prefer that. Your choice. :)

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yes, pretty please :)

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

ESE/ESI, possibly SEI MAAAAAYBE EIE (but than all the good attributes were fake ^^ )(jk)

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Me, or the girl? She struck me as more of a rational than a feeler, maybe.

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Originally Posted by aisa

yes, pretty please :)

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Lol, i give you 3 choices, and you answer yes. :lol:
I'll make the thread. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

Me, or the girl? She struck me as more of a rational than a feeler, maybe.

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I was talking about her.

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confident, optimistic, sociable, consistently prim in appearance, sensual, highly energetic, ambitious, seemingly organized, accomplished, intelligent, witty,

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Ethicals can be intelligent and witty. Actually there are quite a few logicals that don't appear "witty" at all. Ofc I haven't met her (well, maybe i'm dating her right now for all you know ((hehehehehehe))) so I'm going off on your very basic list of traits. ILE/ILI/LIE/LII don't usually get such high praise as the above, maybe a sensing logical makes more sense to you, but my gut (which is worth exactly nothing) says it's a sensing ethical (also probably rational).

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

I was talking about her.



Ethicals can be intelligent and witty. Actually there are quite a few logicals that don't appear "witty" at all. Ofc I haven't met her (well, maybe i'm dating her right now for all you know ((hehehehehehe))) so I'm going off on your very basic list of traits. ILE/ILI/LIE/LII don't usually get such high praise as the above, maybe a sensing logical makes more sense to you, but my gut (which is worth exactly nothing) says it's a sensing ethical (also probably rational).

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That was really just my impression of her from a distance..Nonetheless, I obviously romanticized whatever traits I saw in her, even if the real thing could've been underwhelming in comparison.

those traits sound like an idealized version of almost any type, lol ;)

I'd say that I have a lot of admiration for both ENTp's and ENTj's from a distance, perhaps moreso than most types. While I haven't had the opportunity to communicate with an ENTj on an int-imitate level, one particular instance stands out to me (of course, assuming the person in question is ENTj); I went through a bit of a rough patch during my first semester of college when one of my professor's approached me with an ultimatum - he told me that he saw 'something' in me that he didn't see me in his other negligent students and was willing to help me push through the semester. All I can say is that I passed the class and have a positive opinion of him (and did from the beginning), although I can think of a couple times where I approached him semi-enthusiastically about a topic and he seemed a little bit taken aback by it, but he was receptive and seemed to appreciate my 'insights'. I could also see him being ENTp (he had a 'wacky' sense of humor at times), although he seemed a bit..rougher, and the way he approached me seemed a bit Fi-ish, no? My main impression was that he was some sort of Gamma/Decisive type.

I've also received great advice from a cousin who I think might be EXTj, but of course, that's inconclusive.

As for ENTps, I've always been able to appreciate their humor, enthusiasm and their uncanny (and occasionally, frightening) ability to re-contextualize my problems and make them seem insignificant (in a positive way). I find them charming and good-natured, which is perhaps unusual coming from an ESI.

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

How about ESI-Fi, harmonizing-subtype?

Possible identicals (ESI's) for comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpuQCKJIf0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65amv0E_sgI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu7dApJNQ9U

Can you see any similarities?

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I do not think it is possible for ESI to be non-judgmental. Also they are reserved in a fashion you aren't - covering of FeSi in Id. You tone down Fe for control and comfort not cover it. Si is unrestricted.
Don't know about these people.

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Originally Posted by lungs

i'm probably Fi-ESI and i like your aesthetic taste and you seem cool but we come off way different on cam.
if you were IEI, wouldn't you be Ni subtype since you're not particularly emotive? i see Ni in your artistic tastes but not in your posts.

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Thanks. :) Ni, at least in the Jungian sense, is a function that I romanticize and wish I had a more natural inclination towards. While I'm capable of understanding and coming up with my own subjective, intuitive insights, I'm afraid they aren't as impressive or fleshed out as those of an IEI or ILI. They're nothing more than vague utterances and 'gut-feelings' that seem more genuine when they're left without expression.

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Originally Posted by Iris

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Meged-Ovcharov

Have you read these duality descriptions? I think it is helpful to try to imagine what kind of personality you would want to help you on a project.

Also, which description most closely fits the contribution you see yourself making in a dual relationship?

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SEI - ILE.

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Originally Posted by Esaman

I do not think it is possible for ESI to be non-judgmental. Also they are reserved in a fashion you aren't - covering of FeSi in Id. You tone down Fe for control and comfort not cover it. Si is unrestricted.
Don't know about these people.

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Alot of ESI stereotypes seem unreasonably negative and cartoonish; I never get the impression that they're supposed to be likeable. I'm sure many of them are more diplomatic, self-aware and flexible than the stereotypes suggest.

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

ESI stereotypes seem excessively negative/limiting.

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You think you are being nice but really you aren't.:lol:

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Originally Posted by Suedehead

I'm sure many of them are more diplomatic, self-aware and flexible than alot of the stereotypes suggest - can't a Fi-ego type come to value tact in the face of things he disagrees with, especially trivial things? If anything, it's a sign of maturity.

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Irrelevant. Being judgmental is part of their instinct, internal informational metabolism. They may remove it from expression and action but it is there and is not a problem. lungs accepted that statement and so should you.