'llo.
spill.
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'llo.
spill.
pshhhhhhhhhhhhh
Tell me everything...
I'm biting my nails already :F
dont get anxious
GET EVERYTHING
eh I wrote out a long post for the first entry but then laptop froze and all was lost.
It'll pass.
My "long" posts fit on the screen so I can take a picture when that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Park
I just like to be in control of myself. and anxiety has always been one thing that seems to take that away momentarily. It does eventually pass when I've rationalized my anxieties out and/or I'm too tired to continue carrying it on or I distract myself. I eventually hope to find solutions to it rather than just cover-ups.
Well, a permanent solution would require a permanent change in perspective towards the things that cause your anxiety. You can achieve this by identifying and clarifying what those things are, and then gradually and consciously changing your reactions to them. What I do sometimes is anticipate my own reaction and prevent it from occurring consciously. It takes some willpower and discipline, but it keeps you in control of yourself.
My mother (ESI) has horrible anxiety that can be triggered by just about anything. Although she can drive well enough, driving a car with her in the passenger seat is rather unpleasant (she gasps occasionally as if an imminent crash is going to happen).
As far as I can tell she controls it with meds. It doesn't help that 75% of her family (other than her) is made up of Alpha NTs.
This is valuable piece of info. I've been thinking whether one can buy some anxiety actually. I wouldn't have so many motorbike accidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by nefnaf
When I was like 17 I had a pretty bad anxiety problem, so I can relate. Some days I couldn't bring myself to go outside, and I would just stay in getting angry with myself. Shit sucked. Fearless now though ofc.
sometimes i get an uneasy stomach and a sense of urgency like i need to be doing something, changing something, but my mind won't gather the focus for anything productive because its too agitated and i can't figure out what or why and all i can actually do is just wait for the feeling to be over. this is the reason i got into focusing on my breathing because its the one thing that seems to be useful when it happens.
I still get these periods of panic from time to time. I just sit and and focus on the time, and on how in ten minutes time nothing bad will have happened, it's just my body being weird at that moment, but that's okay. I think removing yourself from the situation helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs
Mwahahaha, silly weaklings in Si.
Absurd, please me banned again. or just don't click on any thread I make. You are useless and so are your comments. STOP.
Yes, yes. Please you banned again and lul at demanding to not browse threads on a public forum, such private ownership, such entitlement, such psychosis. Anyway, people say I got not taste but I liek you, blacksheep. Your self-depreciating anxiety related "humour" and calling one useless is priceless. Carry on.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
Thanks @chriscorey for bumping this.
You're an idiot in every way possible. congrats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurd
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
.
I'm not unusually anxious. I get antsy while waiting for a situation to come to a head or when there's a false sense of calm or if there's any kind of uncertainty of course ... and I don't really like waiting ... but I really hate being anxious because it makes me USELESS and totally unable to focus. So I'm glad I'm not all that anxious naturally.
I get overstimulated pretty easily when I'm out in public.
This. It's a bit necessary for me to take some time to myself in private to wind down on a daily basis. Unfortunately, I don't always do this. I've also had some pretty bad anxiety issues since I was a kid. I didn't find out that it wasn't normal for people to take 2-3 hours for people to fall asleep until I was an adult. Apparently the average is 7 minutes. Man, someone just give me a hammer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suedehead
I workout to get rid of my anxiety. Or do anything that makes me feel physically tired at the end of the day.
I have a lot of social anxiety, I worry a lot about what other people think of me, I freak out about what people are trying to do or what they are doing... And when I'm alone, I think about all the wrongs others have done to me and it gets me anxious.
Wow, that was some real talk, lol. Slightly graphic, but, I'm here to be honest.
It's a constant struggle between what I want to do, what others want me to do, accepting or rejecting obligations, being stuck with unwanted obligations, being rushed and manipulated.
I'm LIE and I've been seeing this woman whom I think is ESI for a few months now. I've noticed that her house is immaculate. She thinks it's a mess, but you could eat off her kitchen floor, in stark contrast to the way I keep my house. She said she thinks my house is dirty, and she's right. It's a construction zone at the moment and it's not efficient to clean something when it's just going to get trampled again in an hour.
Anyway, she's separated from her husband who took all of her bank account savings and everything else of value that he could remove from her house while she was at work to give to his new crush, so she's left with no money in the bank and her job is part time and the divorce lawyer she got in order to divorce him is not very good but he keeps sending her very large bills. So, you could say that she has some problems to deal with.
I told her that her house was very nice. Very neat.
"Yes, but do you see that?" and she pointed to the ceiling. I looked, expecting to see a huge crack which means that the house's foundation is broken and is sliding down the hill. But instead, I see.....nothing. An unbroken expanse of cool white ceiling.
"What?", I said.
"See this cove molding? It doesn't sit right."
I squinted and I could see a one millimeter gap in places where the molding didn't lie flat to the wall.
"You could fix that in fifteen minutes with some three-dollar paintable caulk."
"Really? I thought it would be really expensive."
So here she is, separated from her husband, kicked out of her church for being separated from her husband, her husband's family is talking shit about her to everyone she knows, her girlfriends are not returning her calls, she's without savings or a steady job, and she's panicked about a gap in some crown molding.
Anxiety's gotta anxiety.
I think she's a combination of enneagram 4 and 6, but mostly 6. Maybe she can move towards an enneagram 9 and chill a bit.
Anxiety? What is anxiety?
Anyways, I'll look. Typically, the two people who I would consider gamma SF are not anxious, and are incredibly restrained, like me. However, one actually got really angry and almost killed a guy because rage. That is hear say, I wasn't there. Don't piss off Fi/Se. Especially when they are 200+ pound men. To be fair, he also grew up in Brooklyn, if that means anything.
As to the woman above. The story is incredibly interesting. It parallels things I deal with.
First, that is not anxiety, that is compartmentalizing. That makes sense to me, given her situation, and the context of the meeting. Compartmentalizing is a sign of anxiety, however it is something you do to deal with anxiety. If she is actually in a panic, it's not working. It is mot clear whether she actually is panicking or just being particular. Being particular is fine, and just a trait. She already shows the trait by cleaning the house so much, so I'm assuming it's not a psychological escapism thing, but more just her being a neat freak.
To Adam.
My thought is semi-dual. Explanation is she doesn't do things as you'd expect. Duals do indeed do things as you expect. This woman does not do what you expect, and cares about things you don't seem to care about. Up to you as to what to do with this information. Feel free to disregard it or clarify as needed.
For a comparison of what I'd say in your position, I'd tell her not to worry about it. It is probably not worth the effort of getting a ladder, going up there with the caulk, and caulking it, then getting paint, and painting over it. Compare and contrast the solution. Am I right? No idea. How it feels to be irrational.
I used to think that I was ESI. I realized that I do not pay enough attention to the nuances of relationships and that I am too much of an "idea generator" to be an ESI. I am an EIE and I suffer from bad anxiety.
@StarPath, where do you think the anxiety comes from?Quote:
Originally Posted by StarPath
I knew an ESI at a job I worked. Anytime anything would go wrong with anything she would fall apart, turn into a nervous mess, and lash out at everyone.
Hmmm...anxiety issues? Nope. Can't relate well. Only in new, unfamiliar situations (travelling to a new place/country, meeting new people, things like that). I'm more comfortable with the familiar, generally speaking. I don't avoid new things to cater to some annoying feelings (which would be plain cowardly, weak, and pathetic imo), I simply push past my comfort zone until it becomes the new comfort zone. My usual confidence returns once I warm up to something new. I act normal but people could pick up on it in some subtle body language and facial expressions...maybe shakiness in my voice if it's severe enough.
I'm not really expressive of my emotions overtly. For the most part I'm pretty emotionally contained, and even uncomfortable with outward expression. I would rather simply state verbally how I feel than actually demonstrate it. That means I'll sooner say "I am getting angry because of X, Y, and Z dynamics" (while trying to maintain a calm outward demeanor) than actually yell at someone or somehow act out my anger. Much of the reason behind this is not wanting to emotionally vomit on someone I care for and hurt them. My empathy and consideration for them causes me to be passionate about self-control over my verbal lashings (passionately protective of them, even if the risk of damage is coming from myself). Generally such demonstrations are unhelpful and not conducive toward positive solutions anyway.
If I do act it out there is generally a specific purpose that revolves around the way others will react: asserting myself more firmly so they pay more attention and stop talking over me, applying pressure to someone more 'difficult' in order to pressure them into giving me information I want to know (because they are 'difficult' I know they won't simply outright tell me), shaking someone out of self-defeating thinking patterns as they're complaining about things...I can't think of more examples off the top of my head currently.
EDIT: A note about "asserting myself more firmly so they pay more attention and stop talking over me" - there is usually a certain shock value when someone who is always composed, emotionally reserved, and not neurotic at all, suddenly one day is escalated. It tends to take people back a bit so they are more inclined to take things seriously without me having to overdo things.
Testing for quadra is easy (e.g. Gamma's fundamentally know life is a game that you must play because it's impossible not to. Do you feel this way? Yes? Than I'd be surprised if you're not one of us). But this whole subject is not. You say you suffer from extreme anxiety? I can tell you why that is and it transcends socionics and types.Quote:
Originally Posted by eiemo
Anxiety stems from attachment issues. Aristotle said that man is a social animal and he was dead on. How than is man social? He/she forms emotional bonds/attachments with others. These attachments, beyond feeling awesome and healing any wound we may suffer in our souls, were also absolutely pivotal in regards to our physical survival. Up until the modern industrial age living here, there, or anywhere was largely the same. You were born into a clan and a community. Those who truly got you became part of your "tribe", your inner circle. You had plenty of chances to find said tribe. The extended family were all located within walking distance. No matter what, you were almost guaranteed to find at least three other people who you would open up to and they'd respond with total acceptance.
To your primal brain you knew mom, dad, brother, sister, uncle, and on and on could see deep into your soul and tell you they loved you warts and all. How could they not? They always had enough time to fulfill your needs no matter how minor. Even a simple request for a hug from someone within the clan failed to go unanswered. Even if mom and dad had negative socionic relations to you they did their best and their extended family had excellent chances of containing those who would have a positive relation to you. And while people speak of the horror of "arranged marriages" you can bet your ass that both families would try to line up duals with duals and if they didn't they'd work their way down the list of "most positive" relationships as best they could. The didn't know what we knew now, but I bet they'd have gotten pretty close just on their gut instincts. Never forget that people possessing broken attachment styles are all alike in one factor. They really do love the objects of their misguided affections. They would love nothing more than to see them be happy. Sadly, they haven't even the slightest clue as to how to make that happen. After all, the memory of how it happened for countless millennia was lost upon the shell-shocked fields of Passchendaele, Flanders Fields, Verdun, etc...
Good luck finding the love we have lost in the suburbs let alone the inner city proper nowadays. Only in the most remote rural communities do you even stand a ghost of a chance of experiencing what our ancestors had in the so called "dark" ages. Where that village was lucky to run up against Dunbar's number. Now? I mean, if you know about Judge Dredd you've already experienced the microcosm of a Megablock if you reside within an "affordable" apartment complex. Stacked and packed in squalor... And people wonder why you couldn't pay me a billion to live in the inner cities of the coasts.
While I pencilled the following in the margin of status report, it was an ESI that was inspiring it:
Poor Me
From words that were said
I conjured up dread,
Poor me.
I hate what was done
And think I should run,
Poor me
I feel discontent
But not confident,
Poor me
I want one of those
And help I suppose,
Poor me.
I need attention
But not intrusion,
Poor me.
I’ve been such a pain
Which drives me insane,
Poor me.
To express I’m blue,
I decry to you
Poor me.
a.k.a. I/O
Well I’ve been chatting to a rather funny ESI with strong opinions in my office. She’s helped me with something that’s been giving me a lot of anxiety..
One day after I’d been sighing a lot all day she said to me ‘what is it?’ I said I can’t sleep :/ She said ‘what time are you waking up in the night? Are you going to bed too early? I know we all want to get the ideal 8 hours.’ I said ‘no, I’m not..’. But I realised she was right. By giving myself a window of slightly more than 8 hours to sleep in I’m ending up getting less than 6 often..but by aiming for 7-8 (like any doc would say..) I’m probs more likely to get more than 6. It’s not like I really wanted 8, I was just so tired I thought I had to aim for 8. Also, sleep had become so important to me it seemed like even 6.5 hours was something bad and troubling..and it can be when the rest of the week you’ve been getting 5/6 or less. The amount of drama and stress it causes is a perfect example of getting stuck in an IEI anxiety knot. Might not be obvious drama but it’s there in you head constantly ruining your life, quietly, bringing you down, lol. As well as the actual symptoms of sleep deprivation. It all adds up.
Anxiety, when it’s bad…screw anxiety.
@Bethany Many ESIs and IEIs pull bugaboos out of the ether. ESI anxiety seems wrapped around fear of failure; they tend to make mountains out of molehills so many undertakings or problems become intimidating for no real reason. IEI anxiety seems to stem from them feeling not as accepted or successful as they should be; tunnel vision often exacerbates these negative perceptions. ESIs seem to get more stressed about what will happen while IEIs stress over what has happened, or who they or those close to them have become.
a.k.a. I/O
Ew -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Terrible. Not the writing, the attitude or whatever.
I'm assume by your comment that you have not met an ESI with a poor-me undercurrent. Well. I have not yet met an ESI who could be described as "a little intense"; some might be wound a little tight perhaps - but not intense. :content:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Fire
a.k.a. I/O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
I don't think I've ever met an ESI with a "poor me" attitude. At least, that's not how I interpret what I'm seeing. They seem to be singularly unsympathetic to their own troubles. Now, most of the ESIs whom I've met have told me that they don't think that they are very smart (I was told this same thing by two ESIs with PhDs in either Astrophysics or Physics), but they weren't looking for sympathy. Instead, I think they were trying to lower my expectations, because ESIs like to under-promise and over-deliver.
As for the "intensity", I'd interpret this not as getting in your face, exactly, although I've seen an ESI do this to a group of people who weren't doing what he thought they should be doing, but rather I'd say that they display an inflexibility in the face of moral challenges.
It's more like they are saying "No, I'm not going to buy into your assertion that it could be this or it could be that. It's the way that I say it is."
I have been working with a 27 yo female ESI who is remarkably well-adjusted and about once a week, she'll take extreme offense at something I say, but won't challenge me on it until after she's had a chance to think about it for a while. She's never told me what she decided (whether she or I was right, that is), but I think that she is coming to the conclusion that I'm often right when I say something that challenges her beliefs but that I'm also an asshole.
You can be technically correct and morally wrong. Lol.
I'm sure there are many who don't have such an attitude but I certainly have met more than a few who seem to blame their inaction on their circumstance, lack of resources or other people. Now if they discovered or were shown their errors, they tend to beat themselves up. However, I find their anxieties mount exponentially when they're experiencing difficulty, sometimes becoming overly hesitant and second guessing themselves; some often grow very quiet for weeks/months before an eventual eruption or breakdown. I think they are very aware of their capabilities but don't often advertise for fear of raising expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
a.k.a. I/O
I see by your comments that you are confused and misunderstanding ESIs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...OAbIJNBckeMdgg
For most ESIs, “intense” is actually textbook. “Woe is me,” however, is not — in fact, it's the exact opposite. Someone who challenges themselves/others, disciplines themselves, and is inclined toward self-improvement, typically won't have a “woe is me” attitude. Pity parties generally consist of inaction and stagnation. It's pretty difficult to willingly dive head first into challenges and confront everything head on while simultaneously feeling sorry for yourself.
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88..._I0d3fLoO-STIsQuote:
Well. I have not yet met an ESI who could be described as "a little intense";
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...XMrF3k6QhJKWVw
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...wJXjQGs5LGITeE
In general, I have low neuroticism (including anxiety). I'm intense because I'm very candid/blunt; passionate; bold, authentic, and outspoken; I don't put up with bullshit; I see straight through people and am hard to fool, but simultaneously unashamed and unafraid to call people out on their bullshit; am unconcerned with emotional atmosphere fluff and will at times break it, especially if for the sake of upholding truth or protecting others, etc.; may initiate conflicts in order to obtain/gather information about someone's character/psyche; may initiate conflict so that others can see that person's true colors, AKA I'm doing it as a warning to others.Quote:
some might be wound a little tight perhaps - but not intense.
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...d0WPI9MXPVZREY
That's something I did way before I ever knew about ESI's. I've described it to others ad-nauseam, as my motives have been misunderstood many times (they almost always are, as nobody actually gets me, they just think they do and I roll my eyes and let most people be wrong at this point, thus taking a role of someone protective of others in spite of being labelled the 'bad guy' by them...I've learned to embrace it by now, just let others think I'm capable of terrible things so they don't fuck with me, but such unfair, undeserved, unjust criticism of my character used to be a very sensitive trigger — thus, I willingly and deliberately exposed myself to it all the more, challenging myself to improve and overcome this about myself).
This description in this link below in general was absolutely mind-blowing for me the first time I read it. It was as though someone had based this on me, to the point where I thought “people in the typology community are going to think I'm acting more like my type, holy shit” because of how well my type fits.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya
@RebelondeckQuote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Fire
This may not sound like much of an “improvement,” so I'll elaborate to clarify why it is.
1) It was partly a sensitivity because I had relevant traumatic experiences in which character assassination / smear campaign resulted in the loss of connection with family. Basically, a covert narcissist formed a wedge between myself and family members by gossiping, lying, and manipulating. Thus, I perceived it as a sensitivity that was created by trauma. I overreacted to situations in which others misunderstood me, thus resulting in what would be considered irrational or destructive emotional reactions. I wanted to get this under control, therefore I literally baited others into weaponizing my own trauma against me, by exposing this weakness to shitty people in order to create situations in which I was challenged to overcome this about myself. I also exposed it publicly in some communities, btw, testing to see who would weaponize it — thus, watching them show what kinds of people they are. If that isn't a Fi Base, Se Creative, and Si Demonstrative approach to self-improvement, I don't know what is. It's also rather intense and far from “woe is me” or wound tight — quite contrary, it's gaining self-control (introspecting, self-improving…AKA archetypal ESI-ness) over my own emotional reactions/sensitivities.
2) It became clear to me that I was caring too much about how others thought of me/perceived me, and that I cannot control what others think. All I can do is learn not to care. I finally realized I not only don't value their judgments enough to care, but I also think it speaks about them more than me when someone is so presumptuous. I never get close to people who surmise regularly. It's not only asinine, it's also an incompatibility, as I'm a highly complex person. Basically, I interpret it as indication that they will probably never properly understand me, see me, or hear me, and therefore they are incapable of being close. (Or even if they are, I'm not willing to exhaust myself by fighting to open their eyes. I'm not desperate enough for relationships to do that.)
3) It was a vulnerability which was able to be weaponized against me and thus used by others for harm. I needed to get it under control.
A victim mindset as an excuse to remain in a place of inaction is something I've never understood. I don't have anxiety issues, either, though. Fear is seldom something I experience. If anything, I think such mindsets are more of a luxury...something only those who don't truly have a hard time can afford. If shit's really bad, you will do something one way or another, as it's "do or die" once shit gets hard/bad enough. I've reached a point where I don't really think I lack the strength to get through anything that could possibly happen to me in life. If anything, the greater the challenge, the more angry/determined/headstrong/passionate/strong-willed/stubborn I become. I don't back down, I don't quit, and I don't settle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Personally, when I think others' expectations of me are too high, I confront it in a straightforward manner. I directly state that I think they're doing it and I explain why that concerns me and why I don't want that to happen. If it happens anyway — “remember when I said I didn't want this very thing to happen, and I saw it coming?” I simply point it out and correct them. I didn't make the mistake when they formed expectations. That's on them, not my problem. I don't care enough about how people think of me or my capabilities for all that bullshit. I don't advertise my capabilities, though, but that's really just because I don't have to prove jack shit to others. I know my own capabilities well, it doesn't matter whether anyone else does or doesn't see things for the way they genuinely are. The truth remains what it is, regardless of their ability to perceive it.Quote:
I think they are very aware of their capabilities but don't often advertise for fear of raising expectations.
@Phoenix Fire My way of looking at Socionics is from an information control system perspective so I don't agree with the existing models or analysing IEs in isolation so I can easily be discounted in this forum. I'm quite sure that words to support any and all versions of oneself can be found. People who've undergone traumatic experiences can exhibit significant variations in type and highly stressed types can operate in a dual-like mode. I've known some ESIs to behave like Jeanne d'Arc but most have their deflated moments as well. Managers and spouses tend to have more concern about their deflations.
http://www.socionics.com/articles/unisfj.html
a.k.a. I/O
Yeah ESI lady in my office talks a lot about there being 'no room for progression in our job, no one else will want to hire us..'. I feel ok where I am at the moment but if I stop now and think about further career progression this pops into my head: ‘but everything that's happened so far means you won't be able to do it, you've developed too many bad habits, you haven't achieved enough..you won't be able to do it, you won't be able to motivate yourself to do it’. However, I’ve been in my current job a couple of years now and feel more comfortable there than I have in any other job, which helps me feel more confident and secure about what type of thing I could do in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Sometimes I can’t believe I ever made it through two years of teaching. (Not in teaching anymore). But something got me through it, and although it took me a while to recover from it, there are some aspects of it I can look back on, and feel proud of. I have to try hard to remember the good feelings (year 9 working silently because they were enjoying the lesson, a rare compliment from a teaching assistant, the teacher of my top set year 10 telling me they were writing really well). For me, shaking off anxiety is about shaking off all the things I have done wrong, and honestly there’s been a lot, because my anxiety did stop me from learning how to do things correctly sometimes. But I tell myself ‘just pretend it’s 10 things, rather than 1000, only remember some, not all, you only need to remember a few in order to learn from them’.
I also try to remember that even though I struggled with work in my early twenties, I was fully aware of that struggle and yet I got up every day and went in and over time I managed to get to a point where I was brave enough to try something like teaching. I have been both brave and at times capable, which means I shouldn’t perhaps worry so much about lacking motivation or not being skillful enough.
I’ve lived through so much chaos, I feel like at some point in my life, that experience might come in useful and allow me to ‘redeem myself’ and feel powerful and strong. Although I'm also just glad to be feeling more at peace with myself and more comfortable.
I could probably write something similar about ‘self-image’ because yes, I do sometimes feel anxious about the overall person I’ve become too.
Oh, and yes, over the years my mind has invented various ‘bugaboos’ (funny word lol) that stopped me from feeling like I was capable of living a normal life, the latest being my worries about sleeping. Usually, there’s a voice telling me that the ‘new’ problem is the result of an old problem..and it’s too hard to deal with because it’s ‘too complicated’. But recently, I’ve got better at finding solutions to dealing with problems, simplifying them, which makes me feel more confident about dealing with difficult things later on, real or imagined..
Yep, your personal model is entirely unrelatable. Good to know you're inventing a new system, I won't bother thinking we're on the same boat anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
My crude hard-science model of what I see as so obvious doesn't come close to something I would call invention. Any systems engineer worth his/her salt would propose similar but hopefully someday one will have more ambition than I to flesh it out; it's very likely that most of it already exists in artificial intelligence technology but I haven't been following the latest developments. :content:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Fire
a.k.a. I/O