Type me by MY FACE

More recent and much more natural pics as they were taken without my knowing. I think they show my softer side. I'm not great at posing, it always seems fake and that affects me in some way, like I have to show I am strong. Anyway new pics... taken in 2013...





Attachment 3273Attachment 3274


New pics for new perspective

Side shot, with neck exposed


Attachment 2423


More frontish, and with red lipstick! woot.
Attachment 2424

Couple of random ones


Attachment 2425Attachment 2426

Type:?????




(For ref: edited 20/10/2013 22.31 my time, up to post 128)

ESTP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Name13

ESTP

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I would say totally Beta.

Totally all the types.

No, just one of the types. Probably in one of 4 quadras. Confirmed type, though, for sure.

Yah I'm def looking harsh in those pics. Funny though I could post a different pic and people would guess completely differently. Based on umm...expression/location/dress?


Different pic-smiling


Attachment 2390
@Maritsa I just read the profile for SEI and it's a terrible fit for me. Si and Fe are about as far away from my role and creative as it gets.

IEE is still the closest as far as I read into socionics, and the deeper I delve the more I realise this. Some things are off, but it's the hat that fits the best.

You do actually look more :Se:-eyed than :Ne:-eyed, but not really Beta, probably more Gamma.

Also one more... myself and Mind back in January

Attachment 2391

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saberstorm

I would say totally Beta.

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Agreed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Also one more... myself and @Time (Mind) back in January

Attachment 2391

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Both of you are too cool therefore both of you are ESTPs.

Aww, you look cute. I was going to tell you to post a pic of your neck from the side, but you've done that already. XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Yah I'm def looking harsh in those pics. Funny though I could post a different pic and people would guess completely differently. Based on umm...expression/location/dress?


Different pic-smiling

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This one screams IEE.

You look like someone I used to work with but it could just be superficial, because you definitely have a different vibe. She was sort of hippie-ish and wore tank tops and jeans and was really nice and baked shit and we'd talk about smoking weed and grabbing beers at work. She was good people. I remember she was dating one of the most impassable inexpressible guys I met too that was always trying to one up people. It was a weird combo of friendly/social and stiff/unsocial.

You are very pretty. My first thought was either ESTP or ESFP.

But on closer look maybe IEE or EII.

(With VI, I usually come close but only occasionally I'm on the mark.)

How about SLI (or even LSE)?

I know you dont relate to Si in the SEI sense, but the reason I mention SLI is sometimes duals can mistype themselves as their duals. I know that when i was a newb, I recognized myself in the SLI description before I recognized myself in the IEE description. But of course some things in the SLI description were way off so i was like nahhhh.

You do however look like an extravert, and your "look" reminds me of a few LSEs in my life. So maybe LSE is a possibility...

wow, how many types can one woman be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legerdemain

wow, how many types can one woman be?

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Aren't Gems usually multifaceted?

I'm going with the following and final on them

S - final
P - final

E/I -undecided
T/F - undecided

so ESTp is in
so is ISTp
and ISFp
and ESFp

I'm pretty sure on judging from the dress styles, rather artsy and somewhat particular, her overall uncomfortable and sort of mentally scattered positions, her like of certain quotes which remind me of establishment of harmony and even her own standstill in situations to create a situation of harmony I'm concluding ISFp or ESFp (eh I'll wait a little to make final).

I hope everyone is just going by VI because Gem is clearly IEE...

The cute type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

I'm going with the following and final on them

S - final
P - final

E/I -undecided
T/F - undecided

so ESTp is in
so is ISTp
and ISFp
and ESFp

I'm pretty sure on judging from the dress styles, rather artsy and somewhat particular, her overall uncomfortable and sort of mentally scattered positions, her like of certain quotes which remind me of establishment of harmony and even her own standstill in situations to create a situation of harmony I'm concluding ISFp or ESFp (eh I'll wait a little to make final).

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Lol, to be fair I relate more closely to ESFp than ISFp but much more to ENFp than ESFp. I don't have the live in the moment vibe of ESFp's, i'm far to concerned with what will happen in the future to focus on the here and now. I'm delta as far as my values are concerned, I can be aggressive but it's rare, I don't have the aggressive style of Se as a role function. The part of Se i relate to is more to do with impulse, being impulsive...though that can also be a (enneagram) seven thing and i'm pretty sure a lot of ENFp's will relate to ESFp's in some respects as they both Fi creative, and Te in the same positions.

EDIT: The first two pics were from shots to sell those hats, the hat style itself was not chosen by me. I don't dislike it though. And my dress sense could be described as quirky or offbeat... i can be pretty hit and miss. I have both set trends and made people laugh with my lack of dress sense awareness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kim

I hope everyone is just going by VI because Gem is clearly IEE...

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Aw thanks Kim, *hugs* it's ok though, I'm not taking VI too seriously, lots of people have told me in the flesh i vibe as ESTp or ESFp visually...until i start talking, then everyone is both surprised and certain of IEE. I have been to quite a few socionics meet ups and I don't think there's anyone there that thinks anything other that IEE now. I'm pretty confident in my type... this was more for fun.

EYEs. <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

i'm far to concerned with what will happen in the future to focus on the here and now.

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I never really/fully figured out how this attitude is supposed to complement the SLI's here-and-now, step-at-a-time, can't-see-shit-past-tomorrow psyche. I think it's something my IEE cougar and I seem to clash on rather than complement each other with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Park

I never really/fully figured out how this attitude is supposed to complement the SLI's here-and-now, step-at-a-time, can't-see-shit-past-tomorrow psyche. I think it's something my IEE cougar and I seem to clash on rather than complement each other with.

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I think the point is that you allow them to dream whilst maintaining some level of reality that they can fall back on, for which they will be very grateful (and lavish you with adoration) if given unconditionally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

I think the point is that you allow them to dream whilst maintaining some level of reality that they can fall back on, for which they will be very grateful (and lavish you with adoration) if given unconditionally.

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Yes, this. :love:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Aw thanks Kim, *hugs* it's ok though, I'm not taking VI too seriously, lots of people have told me in the flesh i vibe as ESTp or ESFp visually...until i start talking, then everyone is both surprised and certain of IEE. I have been to quite a few socionics meet ups and I don't think there's anyone there that thinks anything other that IEE now. I'm pretty confident in my type... this was more for fun.

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People only need to look at your signature quotes. ;)

This thread is gold.

Never mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

:thumbsup: Most constructive posts so far. :lol: Your eyes are like BAZAM!

It's weird. You VI like a sensor, Se-ish, and ESTp could make sense visually, yet you write like a Delta NF. I'm not completely settled on what your type may be. If it helps, I think you VI like Zooey Deschanel. You remind me of her a lot in her expressions, eyes, and smile:

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Ick, can't stand her. So bland and uninspiring. I'm surei could show you a whole heap of delta nf style photos of me. I was curious how different perspectives come from different pics...maybe i post some more.

She has the in(tro)verted extrovert look I usually associate with Ne EPs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Park

I never really/fully figured out how this attitude is supposed to complement the SLI's here-and-now, step-at-a-time, can't-see-shit-past-tomorrow psyche. I think it's something my IEE cougar and I seem to clash on rather than complement each other with.

---

You're dead wrong here. SLIs are strategists and have long range vision. What happens is that, as dynamic irrationals, their minds are too flexible to hold any idea for long. IEEs, being static, take snapshots and serve the purpose of a compass to give the SLI a sense of direction.

Without an IEE the SLI is likely to just wander, aimless, in life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikemex

You're dead wrong here. SLIs are strategists and have long range vision. What happens is that, as dynamic irrationals, their minds are too flexible to hold any idea for long. IEEs, being static, take snapshots and serve the purpose of a compass to give the SLI a sense of direction.

Without an IEE the SLI is likely to just wander, aimless, in life.

---

Oh thats interesting, is that to do with the role of Ni for the SLI? The IEE actually gives purpose to the SLI, yes interesting. I do not think i have had much experience with them.

Don't have many pics as using a diff puter but here are some more...

With my father, alone, with very good friend (most likely identical)

Attachment 2395Attachment 2396Attachment 2397


I'm not always loking at the camera...notice i am in these. Thats enough for now though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikemex

You're dead wrong here. SLIs are strategists and have long range vision. What happens is that, as dynamic irrationals, their minds are too flexible to hold any idea for long. IEEs, being static, take snapshots and serve the purpose of a compass to give the SLI a sense of direction.

Without an IEE the SLI is likely to just wander, aimless, in life.

---

It's not wrong. SLIs look to IEE to help sort through options and possibilities, but they also need those options to be grounded in their present (physical) life because that is their comfort zone. That means that if an SLI is looking to begin a process immediately, it might frustrate him to have options thrown at him that don't allow an immediate start or realistic potential. So IEE looks at the potential of the ideas and SLI looks at their feasibility (in the here and now context) and that is how they work together. Once a goal has been set, SLI will go into here-and-now, step-at-a-time, can't-see-shit-past-tomorrow mode to get it done. And that is where you need to leave them alone and not bombard them with yet more options and possibilities because you can't curb your enthusiasm. :oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Don't have many pics as using a diff puter but here are some more...


Attachment 2395Attachment 2396Attachment 2397


I'm not always loking at the camera...notice i am in these. Thats enough for now though

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Never enough! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

Is that your dad & mom? I like growing-up photos. Very heartwarming. :P

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The first is myself with my father (ILE) and the last is with a super close friend (most likely IEE).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

The first is myself with my father (ILE) and the last is with a super close friend (most likely IEE).

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I'm terribly amused at the lack of coherent logic linking your type to you. Just a bundle of people going 'I like so IEE' or other people going 'pictur lookz sle'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InvisibleJim

I'm terribly amused at the lack of coherent logic linking your type to you. Just a bundle of people going 'I like so IEE' or other people going 'pictur lookz sle'.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.co...7590367732.jpg

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I just feel like nobody wants to know the real me Jim. *sad face* Interestingly I did look at the Filatova portraits and think the first pics look closest to ESTj. I imagined socionists to be critiquing features/expressions (the vi way).

Do you care to critique?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Do you care to critique?

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My only critique is that VI is a theoretically invalid typing mechnanism. This statement is DarkAngelFireWolf69 approved (who put together the first 'VI Pictures' collection).

Those claiming otherwise have been busy looking for some kind 'socionics credibility' for some time. It is the pretense of knowledge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InvisibleJim

My only critique is that VI is a theoretically invalid typing mechnanism. This statement is DarkAngelFireWolf69 approved (who put together the first 'VI Pictures' collection).

Those claiming otherwise have been busy looking for some kind 'socionics credibility' for some time. It is the pretense of knowledge.

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I should know better with you Jim, and worded that question differently, you take things so literally. One thing I noticed with ILI's in general is that if you do not use a question mark they do not reply. Wait a minute... you still have SLI as your type...why???? (thats four question marks for you)

Strip, Gem strip!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

I should know better with you Jim, and worded that question differently, you take things so literally. One thing I noticed with ILI's in general is that if you do not use a question mark they do not reply.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

I just feel like nobody wants to know the real me Jim. *sad face*

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So, is the real you the literarly you, the imaginary you, the internalise ego of you or something inbetween?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Wait a minute... you still have SLI as your type...why???? (thats four question marks for you)

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A Polish IEE socionist living in Southampton caught me dualising and pointed it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InvisibleJim

So, is the real you the literarly you, the imaginary you, the internalise ego of you or something inbetween?

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It's a quasi me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InvisibleJim

A Polish IEE socionist living in Southampton caught me dualising and pointed it out.

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Ah, making the jigsaw pieces fit.

I did wonder if it was a net, have fun catching butterflies. :biggrin:

You remind me of Keri Russell somehow.

Your face is worse than the squirrel I punched the shit out of yesterday (Yes I'm fast neough to catch that shity animal ******)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinxi

Your face is worse than the squirrel I punched the shit out of yesterday (Yes I'm fast neough to catch that shity animal ******)

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:biggrin: You licked the windows and tatsted the freedom. Shhhhh, it will all be ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Front Face

*Very srss*

Side face

*Suddenly stylish*

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No matter how gamma you look, infantile romance prevails.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William

So you know your type and just wanted to pose for the camera and get us to comment. Got it.

You're cute. I'm not sure if I should be mad that you're an attention whore, or if I should encourage you to post more pics.

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You are one to talk Mr. IneedhelpwithaprojectASAPhahadidntneedhelpatall... :8*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starfall

The hot type

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Nah, I don't think she's ENTj.

Sensory - Logical - Ekstravert

ISTj : your eyes seem very focused and serious and you seem uptight.

Now after following your intense interaction with you and @Ananke today, and her reasoning, I agree - ESFP sounds like a fit. And your reasoning with her did not sound Ne, so not IEE. Ananke really made a case for your thinking and reasoning in that interaction being SeFi...so I am thinking she had a point.

Looking here I see my first VI thought (one of them) was SEE... Also you have that characteristic very strong very direct look into the camera that I see in pics of the SEEs I know.(Has anyone else ever identified that as a particular SEE VI characteristic?? I just happened to notice it.) So I see here in this thread that SEE was in my first VI impressions, too.

And @Maritsa probably agrees, seeing what she posted here But it won't count, right? Because we are all supposed to think that Maritsa names EVERY girl a SEE, therefore: she must be saying nothing... Right? Anyway, I just had to say that. But whenever I think a person identifying as IEE is instead SEE - which happens a lot here, then they get really, really mad at me. (...even though isn't it natural as an IEE to be curious and inquisitive about "Identicals" whose thinking and communicating are so very unlike mine??) So then I better just shut up! Typing on the typing forum, goodness gracious....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Anyway, I just had to say that. But whenever I think an person identifying as IEE is instead SEE then they get really mad, so, I better shut up....

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That is NOT why they get mad/upset and/or dismiss you.
It's because
a) you act as if you are the end-all-be-all of IEE that all others must be held to,
b) you state your position then refuse to further discuss it nor listen to the other person,
c) you ignore possible errors in your perceptions, your understandings, and your reasonings,
d) you openly request NOT to be shown proof nor examples that could clear things up,
e) i'm quite certain there are other reasons beyond your measely chosen one, though I am sure picking that one out of so many other possibilities helps you feel superior and like a proper victim when they openly disagree with you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anndelise

That is NOT why they get mad/upset and/or dismiss you.
It's because
a) you act as if you are the end-all-be-all of IEE that all others must be held to,
b) you state your position then refuse to further discuss it nor listen to the other person,
c) you ignore possible errors in your perceptions, your understandings, and your reasonings,
d) you openly request NOT to be shown proof nor examples that could clear things up,
e) i'm quite certain there are other reasons beyond your measely chosen one, though I am sure picking that one out of so many other possibilities helps you feel superior and like a proper victim when they openly disagree with you

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This and also the clear clique of persons to be understanding what Se is and to be able to identify it in others. It is interesting that two socionics groups I regularly attend in London run by two persons who have socionics societies/organisations have typed me IEE. They are professionals. I think the fact that i attend regularly and am happy to converse for hours on end on theories bolsters this. Though I am certain there are other reasons. Being tested in a group is a little embarassing but i suppose it does get to to respond more in a natural way as it is on the spot responses. For example being given an object (very similar to your blog entry really) and told that i have to describe it. My under pressure response was that it could be a hat for a very small person or a version of the kerplunk game. Obviously given more time i would have come up with lots of things but on the spot thats what i said immediately befor being stopped because it was so obviously an Ne and not Se response. I believe the Se response would have been something like describing it by saying it was metal, it had holes in it and a handle etc.

The thing is though, the VI thread i started intentionally because i wanted to see what kind of responses it illicited from particular people (and well everybody) so I could better understand their own reasoning.

What I have garnered is this. Maritsa grabs with her neediness certain individuals which she places on a pedestal and rewards with compliments every time they respond with a 'positive agreement' this is the part Eliza (and many before her) play. So Eliza believing that she is truly one of the very few IEE's here is so eager to please Maritsa that she is almost not realising her own actions and certainly not the possible harm they can cause.

The thing is I would have no issue with Maritsa or Eliza if it were not for their trying to convince others that they are particular types and laud it about in public, waving it under peoples noses with their own in the air. I do not hold it against them in any particular way if anything I feel sorry for them as it comes across as quite desperate. How you can justify that (approx) one third of all female members here are SEE is beyond me. I find it quite damaging to the individuals concerned. Many people do take it personally and it can be upsetting. I imagine that a lot of the IEE's Maritsa and clique re-diagnose as SEE are actually upset because to us IEE folk (and many others) it is very important that people see us as genuine and our quest is one of understanding ourselves and others and experiencing things in true form. And how is it possible to do this when you are being accused of not understanding yourself and of being incapable of understanding what they, the elite, are suggesting is beyond your grasp.

The Se thread was really to see how the VI thread could manifest in terms of certain persons typing others as Se ego. It is also a way for me (and hopefully some others too) to garner further insight into socionics, the relationships/communications between different types and how it is perceived by them as individuals and how that then influences a group mentality.

I did not however intend of turing this into a public feud, I'd prefer to keep it clean and resist petty insults.


Edit: I wrote this post 'on the fly', I have been having lots of thoughts regarding this for some time but now seemed an apt time to share some of them.

@Geminatronix
I figured that was the reason for the Se thread. I've been waiting for certain people to respond, giving their own words rather than quotes from another source.

I also think that there is a tendency on the forum to attribute Se as aggressive...and then push and push and push with either passive-aggressive jibes or flat out continuous restating a claim without altering its wording...and then when the person finally responds it's "See everyone? I told you s/he was aggressive." Kind of thing.

...[Edited portion out upon request.]...

Since NeFi look at something/someone through varying lenses, and (usually) seek out a variety of examples, this means they are fully capable of seeing the possibilities of a variety of instances and ways that an event can play out. Yes, they generalize, but they also try to give examples to aid communicative attempts. Giving examples (in your own words) is a sign of understanding the topic. Being relegated to one general opinion that excludes all other possibilities is NOT delta Ne.

Fwiw, I have never seen a reason to think "not NeFi" when I read your posts and see you in chat.

However, i recognize that this thread is about VI, not about your posts and such. Since I don't believe in VI and have yet to see anyone explain the connections between a particular bone structure to a particular element/function, I'd chosen not to VI you for this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anndelise

That is NOT why they get mad/upset and/or dismiss you.
It's because
a) you act as if you are the end-all-be-all of IEE that all others must be held to,
b) you state your position then refuse to further discuss it nor listen to the other person,
c) you ignore possible errors in your perceptions, your understandings, and your reasonings,
d) you openly request NOT to be shown proof nor examples that could clear things up,
e) i'm quite certain there are other reasons beyond your measely chosen one, though I am sure picking that one out of so many other possibilities helps you feel superior and like a proper victim when they openly disagree with you

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Not at all Ann. I respect your sincere opinion but I think you are completely misunderstanding me. Which is okay, I grew up feeling misunderstood [and I'm over that!] so its a real homey comfy feeling. :) Its how I got interested in MBTI; reading Gifts Differing was so amazing for me, then more books on the topic and workshops. Long before I knew Socionics, which is superior, and my preference now.

You are extremely strongly and personally annoyed at me on this topic bu tI do NOT feel like a victim. (Thats an EII NOT an IEE vulnerability I believe). I believe we are Lookalikes and we tend to sort of blank stare each other in these matters and say, "I don't get you." But not "I don't like you." Usually! Maybe you do the latter. I hope not but I fully respect your free will not to like me. I do like you Ann. I I think you are smart and more importantly an amazing survivor. I really admire that in you and respect it. And you have this great zest and strength and direct honesty down-to-earthness and I admire you.

I look at your list here and think, you don't get me, you misunderstand me. ...
a) I am just one IEE here colored quite differently by experiences others often don't relate to and with at least some values some diss here, Just a regular IEE.

b) Maybe some truth here - not that I refuse to listen but we think so differently that when the explaining gets long I get a headache followign the different line of thinking. Really. And this is probably giving you a headache to read me.

c) Sure errors are there, I am just not getting some of the explanations of the errors, at ALL. Need to understand to have any impact.

d) Probably I do that because I see the interaction between us on this topic is causing duress, and I just want to run. That's all. For me, and I forgot what Renin Dichtonomy this is, but for me and others with this one, a negative conversation has NO WORTH. So I run!

e) Naw. Not superior. More like a bad communicator, a person with not enough something that it takes to be able to follow the points being presented when we get on this topic, and respond without making mad, and then as soon as I make mad I want to run. Not as a victim who has been spanked but as a person of limited tolerance for when the environment around a discussion feels intolerable. I exit.

Sort of like how I hate gory (for no reason) movies. Yes I can watch for a good reason, like Schindlers List or something. Also I hate wretched pornography like what @Jadea16t posted today on some click on thing (don't know why @hkkmr allows this!). Indignity and insult to the great grace and beauty of a woman's naked body is not funny to me and makes me instantly sick to my stomach and I really do want to flee. And the repulse I feel towards one who would post that crap does not go away easily. Its stems from a type of misogyny IMO.

So do you get reactions like that to such things? I think not. And I think its type related. One of the regular posters here, I forgot who, posted a very fascinating analogy story picture that she made up of the different Quadras in relation to a pit. The 3 Quadras were in contact with the pit, all in different ways, one was climbing out of it, for example. And Delta was the only one not touching it - they were standing next to it, with its back to it. Yeah, that is so me, I thought....

So when I flee thats not being a victim, that is taking charge of what feels right or not to me. Turning my back on what makes me feel sick, leaving uncomfortable discussions because I LIKE the people in the discussion and I value that becasue that means more to me than the discussion is being PROACTIVE about my own priorities, in my opinion, not a victim.

The last five posts of this thread are the clearest indicator of type/non-type anyone could ask for. The NeFi is just blatant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Sort of like how I hate gory (for no reason) movies. Yes I can watch for a good reason, like Schindler List or something. Also I hate wretched pornography like what Jadea posted today on some click on thing (don't know why @hkkmr allows this!). Indignity and insult to the great grace and beauty of a woman's naked body is not funny to me and makes me instantly sick to my stomach and I really do want to flee. And the repulse I feel towards one who would post that crap does not go away easily. Its stems from a type of misogyny IMO. So do you get reactions like that to such things? I think not. And I think its type related.

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No, it is not. Delta NFs are not inherently frail, opposed to porn, unable to cope with violence, or whatever else you are trying to argue here. These are all your very own.

Not according to that "Quadra Vision" created by a forum member here. I spoke in reference to that. Yes, I am well aware that my adversion to senseless violence and vulgar porn that demeans the dignity of women is not widely shared at 16types Forum; you are quite right on that. It gets plenty tolerance here, to a degree unlike any other forum I have ever read on. Different circles, I guess.

If anyone can remember, or find that "vision" posted by one of the regular posters here, please link it here. I sure would like to see it again and see if the impression in my memory of it is accurate (or what she meant).. Then I would like to see if other Delta's believe her placement to the pit reflects their idea too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kim

No, it is not. Delta NFs are not inherently frail, opposed to porn, unable to cope with violence, or whatever else you are trying to argue here. These are all your very own.

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Thats interesting. There are some shared traits but ofc they are not limited nor are they implied with type. In general delta NF's have the capacity to be violent themselves especially when cornered (that is one for me, if i am trapped, which i have been i can react with violence/violent behaviour). I have witnessed maritsa in some very advanced states of aggression on tinychat. Yes she may feel it justified but screaming your head off at the top of your voice in tinychat is aggressive behaviour whatever the reason.

I am fairly opposed to porn, though not completely. The issue i have with it is that I am concerned that the vast majoirty of women in the industry are in agitated states of self loathing/worthlessness and this is why they work in the trade. I do however have no issue with 'healthy' (esp of the non abused variety) individuals who do it for a living. But often i find myself concerned with this, hence not being into it. However it is not beyond many IEE's to be kinky sexually, IEE's like to experiment, the boudoir is no exception.

Generally IEE's do not enjoy confrontation, this is often true...except when their morals are offended, then they often become confrontational...Fi plays a part with this, however many IEE's are passive aggressive too/in general.

So yes i agree with you, there are trends but making things specific is not wise for Eliza as IEE's generally prefer things to be kept general.

And @Kim, read my post before you respond to it please. I clearly do not see myself as frail. I consider it a strength to know what I like and don't like and to take care of myself in relation to my own preferences. That's not frail. That's strong. I consider myself strong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

And @Kim, read my post before you respond to it please. I clearly do not see myself as frail. I consider it a strength to know what I like and don't like and to take care of myself in relation to my own preferences. That's not frail. That's strong. I consider myself strong.

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My point that attitude towards porn, horror films, and violence are not type-related to the extent that you claim still stands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geminatronix

...I am concerned that the vast majority of women in the industry are in agitated states of self loathing/worthlessness and this is why they work in the trade...

---

:( This.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

:( This.

---

I agree with this, too. But my agreement is not type-related.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim

I agree with this, too. But my agreement is not type-related.

---

Yeah and to be honest I didn't have you pegged as a porn lover. There is an argument for Ne here though, looking behind the facade. Many Se ego's may be more inclined towards just enjoying the moment and not really being so interested in the behind the scenes, possibly if pointed out it could ruin the experience or else they may not be interested as it's not seen as 'realistic' or 'proven' etc. It's still not specific to type, it just could be argued that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza

So do you get reactions like that to such things? I think not.

---

You think not because you have never asked me what I think about it.
You think not because you have some image of what I am, but refuse to consider that that image is erred.
You think not because you believe you are the epitome of NeFi and you think all IEE would feel exactly as you do. And since you believe I am not IEE, therefore I would not have any similar feelings on the matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Yeah and to be honest I didn't have you pegged as a porn lover. There is an argument for Ne here though, looking behind the facade. Many Se ego's may be more inclined towards just enjoying the moment and not really being so interested in the behind the scenes, possibly if pointed out it could ruin the experience or else they may not be interested as it's not seen as 'realistic' or 'proven' etc. It's still not specific to type, it just could be argued that way.

---

I am not going to lie, I watch porn on occasion and I don't think there is anything wrong with porn per se. At least nowadays it's easy to find non-exploitative porn. So I can enjoy the moment and still be socially conscious about issues of sexism, exploitation, effect on the psyche, etc. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim

I am not going to lie, I watch porn on occasion and I don't think there is anything wrong with porn per se. At least nowadays it's easy to find non-exploitative porn. So I can enjoy the moment and still be socially conscious about issues of sexism, exploitation, effect on the psyche, etc. ;)

---

Yah haha, well i have zero issues with that. I have watched more porn than i care to remember, mostly as an underage person being (unconciously) exploited myself. But still I'm not anti porn, just anti exploitation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geminatronix

I should know better with you Jim, and worded that question differently, you take things so literally. One thing I noticed with ILI's in general is that if you do not use a question mark they do not reply. Wait a minute... you still have SLI as your type...why???? (thats four question marks for you)

---

As I was translating Strati's blog entry on IEE-ILI mirage relations, I've noted that a good deal of your interaction with I-Jim on this forum has run in parallel to what she described there, one example being post above exemplifying this sentence: "... IEE tries to befriend and "tame" the ILI, permitting himself to experiment with ILI's habits, tastes and preferences." In light of this, there is really no other type that I see most befitting than IEE.

Apart from that, does anyone has any suggestions for Gem's enneagram type and stacking?

Pornnnnnnn.


Oh wait huh?




Gem is gorgeous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim

I am not going to lie, I watch porn on occasion and I don't think there is anything wrong with porn per se. At least nowadays it's easy to find non-exploitative porn. So I can enjoy the moment and still be socially conscious about issues of sexism, exploitation, effect on the psyche, etc. ;)

---

The only porn I was is when gem is on tinychat :}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Now after following your intense interaction with you and @Ananke today, and her reasoning, I agree - ESFP sounds like a fit. And your reasoning with her did not sound Ne, so not IEE. Ananke really made a case for your thinking and reasoning in that interaction being SeFi...so I am thinking she had a point.

Looking here I see my first VI thought (one of them) was SEE... Also you have that characteristic very strong very direct look into the camera that I see in pics of the SEEs I know.(Has anyone else ever identified that as a particular SEE VI characteristic?? I just happened to notice it.) So I see here in this thread that SEE was in my first VI impressions, too.

And @Maritsa probably agrees, seeing what she posted here But it won't count, right? Because we are all supposed to think that Maritsa names EVERY girl a SEE, therefore: she must be saying nothing... Right? Anyway, I just had to say that. But whenever I think a person identifying as IEE is instead SEE - which happens a lot here, then they get really, really mad at me. (...even though isn't it natural as an IEE to be curious and inquisitive about "Identicals" whose thinking and communicating are so very unlike mine??) So then I better just shut up! Typing on the typing forum, goodness gracious....

---

Hum...

I don't think I've made my typing official..I'll give it some thought after dinner.

I don't see any other type except for P for 100%certain on this and I'm not changing that one. She's definitely an S and I don't type any other except for that. Again I'm leaning strongly towards the following thus far

ISTp
ISFp
ESTp
ESFp

I just don't see N anywhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

You think not because you have never asked me what I think about it.
You think not because you have some image of what I am, but refuse to consider that that image is erred.
You think not because you believe you are the epitome of NeFi and you think all IEE would feel exactly as you do. And since you believe I am not IEE, therefore I would not have any similar feelings on the matter.

---

No.

@Eliza Thomason

If you were strong you wouldn't open threads about my housemaid is so mean she must be SEE

If you were strong you wouldn't believe that New German Medicin can cure cancer. Believing in a omnipotental healpot for feeling safe against deseases is a sign of weakness.

Just my two cents.

On Topic:

VI sucks just look at the VI threads people are randomly typed. In my own VI thread i got many types I'll be honest I opened it because I thought it's fun to post some pictures. VI is the realtive of physignomie every half educated person should know what's about physiognomie and what it brought us in the 20th century.
@Maritsa I am sorry but honestly are you aware how many female persons you type as SEE? According to socionists types are divided more or less equally among population in my opinion it can't be that this forum has such a big attraction to female SEE's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daft21

@Eliza Thomason

If you were strong you wouldn't open threads about my housemaid is so mean she must be SEE

If you were strong you wouldn't believe that New German Medicin can cure cancer. Believing in a omnipotental healpot for feeling safe against deseases is a sign of weakness.

Just my two cents.

On Topic:

VI sucks just look at the VI threads people are randomly typed. In my own VI thread i got many types I'll be honest I opened it because I thought it's fun to post some pictures. VI is the realtive of physignomie every half educated person should know what's about physiognomie and what it brought us in the 20th century.
@Maritsa I am sorry but honestly are you aware how many female persons you type as SEE? According to socionists types are divided more or less equally among population in my opinion it can't be that this forum has such a big attraction to female SEE's.

---

A. It's a very rare type
B. IEE males are over represented on the forum
C. SEE is a very common type among women
D. I've typed plenty of IEE women.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

No.

---

Let's review then, shall we?

----

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

You think not because you have never asked me what I think about it.

---

You have never asked me my personal thoughts/feelings on it. So this one is Yes.
----
----

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

You think not because you believe you are the epitome of NeFi and you think all IEE would feel exactly as you do. And since you believe I am not IEE, therefore I would not have any similar feelings on the matter.

---

This one is Yes because you yourself stated that you think it's type related:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

So do you get reactions like that to such things? I think not. And I think its type related.

---

----
----
So the only other one you could be saying "No" to is:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

You think not because you have some image of what I am, but refuse to consider that that image is erred.

---

Is this what you are refering to? Are you saying that No, you don't have an image of me as an SEE? That you don't have an image of me as being a person who wouldn't feel uncomfortable around porn?

Oh wait...nope, you can't be saying No to that..because you DO have an image of me as SEE, and you pretty much stated that you have an image of me as being a person who wouldn't feel uncomfortable around porn. Not in so many words...but

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

So do you get reactions like that to such things? I think not. And I think its type related.

---

pretty much sums it up.
----

....
Oh, maybe you were saying No to the claim about you refusing to consider that your image of me is erred. Well...actions will tell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

A. It's a very rare type
B. IEE males are over represented on the forum
C. SEE is a very common type among women
D. I've typed plenty of IEE women.

---

http://www.socionics.us/philosophy/t...ribution.shtml

I give you facts I'll wait for yours

Edit: I am aware of stochastics error calculation

@Geminatronix, would you like me to request a thread split so that my disagreements with Eliza don't clutter up your VI thread?

1) VI Doesn't work
2) You are probably IEE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

I just don't see N anywhere.

---

Where is the N in you and Eliza in comparison to Gem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim

Where is the N in you and Eliza in comparison to Gem?

---

No. N is specific things that I'm looking for, awkwardness of stance (sort of out of balance) something with hands and fleshiness of skin, and the eyes and lips. None of those things give me specific genetic qualities that I am looking for that would make an N type.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Also one more... myself and Mind back in January

Attachment 2391

---

Gem, this guy is SEI, how do you get along with him?

Sorry for quoting, let me know if you want me to remove it.

So, at first I was all like 'this VI baloney' but then I used CSI technology and saw the N.

http://s15.postimg.org/bjv6zh0vd/seeing_N.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

Let's review then, shall we?

----

You have never asked me my personal thoughts/feelings on it. So this one is Yes.
----
----

This one is Yes because you yourself stated that you think it's type related:

----
----
So the only other one you could be saying "No" to is:

Is this what you are refering to? Are you saying that No, you don't have an image of me as an SEE? That you don't have an image of me as being a person who wouldn't feel uncomfortable around porn?

Oh wait...nope, you can't be saying No to that..because you DO have an image of me as SEE, and you pretty much stated that you have an image of me as being a person who wouldn't feel uncomfortable around porn. Not in so many words...but
pretty much sums it up.
----

....
Oh, maybe you were saying No to the claim about you refusing to consider that your image of me is erred. Well...actions will tell.

---

Nope, you are so misreading me. You don't get me. And nope, I don't want to review. It just gets worse and worse with explaining, don't you get that? I accept that we don't think alike but you do not. Its like you think its some other thing. Its not. You know what? It just looks like different uses of basic Socionics functions!

I'll go over one point, the first one. But I don't think there will be meeting of minds but I will just try this and maybe I will be wrong!

Your first point. Its NOT that I "think not" because I never asked you. I had a thought. Do you ask permission or request more information before you have a thought? I think not! I made a simple assumption based on your posts on this forum. THEN I immediately asked you. "Am I right?" In other words: "I see this about you. Correct me if I am wrong."

So all you have to do is say:

1) Yes! I have the SAME reaction to gore and porn! I am right there with you!".

Or:

2) "No, that's the not reaction I would have."

Why not just answer the question? Instead its like you want to pick a fight.

Why?

I just
do
not
get
it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Nope, you are so misreading me. You don't get me. And nope, I don't want to review. It just gets worse and worse with explaining, don't you get that? I accept that we don't think alike but you do not. Its like you think its some other thing. Its not. You know what? It just looks like different uses of basic Socionics functions!

I'll go over one point, the first one. But I don't think there will be meeting of minds but I will just try this and maybe I will be wrong!

Your first point. Its NOT that I "think not" because I never asked you. I had a thought. Do you ask permission or request more information before you have a thought? I think not! I made a simple assumption based on your posts on this forum. THEN I immediately asked you. "Am I right?" In other words: "I see this about you. Correct me if I am wrong."

So all you have to do is say:

1) Yes! I have the SAME reaction to gore and porn! I am right there with you!".

Or:

2) "No, that's the not reaction I would have."

Why not just answer the question? Instead its like you want to pick a fight.

Why?

I just
do
not
get
it.

---

why do you bother? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

@Geminatronix, would you like me to request a thread split so that my disagreements with Eliza don't clutter up your VI thread?

---

Not a type related comment just personally, if I start a thread and people go off on some tangent it doesn't bother me. I know it does bother some. But not me,...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

why do you bother? :)

---

I don't know its probably related to some past shards of codependecy.... Or 2w1 gone mad...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

I'll go over one point, the first one. But I don't think there will be meeting of minds but I will just try this and maybe I will be wrong!

---

Trying to relate is so me :)

But she's a Static Se, held position which she does not allow to be challenged by an external force especially when she wants to uphold her (I mean HER) position. She will use any method possible because she's mobilized to achieve a goal...that may be to bring you down honey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim

No, it is not. Delta NFs are not inherently frail, opposed to porn, unable to cope with violence, or whatever else you are trying to argue here. These are all your very own.

---

She was talking about feeling not the specifics again you baffle me.

*I need headache medicine*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geminatronix

The thing is I would have no issue with Maritsa or Eliza if it were not for their trying to convince others that they are particular types and laud it about in public, waving it under peoples noses with their own in the air. I do not hold it against them in any particular way if anything I feel sorry for them as it comes across as quite desperate. How you can justify that (approx) one third of all female members here are SEE is beyond me. I find it quite damaging to the individuals concerned. Many people do take it personally and it can be upsetting. I imagine that a lot of the IEE's Maritsa and clique re-diagnose as SEE are actually upset because to us IEE folk (and many others) it is very important that people see us as genuine and our quest is one of understanding ourselves and others and experiencing things in true form. And how is it possible to do this when you are being accused of not understanding yourself and of being incapable of understanding what they, the elite, are suggesting is beyond your grasp.

The Se thread was really to see how the VI thread could manifest in terms of certain persons typing others as Se ego. It is also a way for me (and hopefully some others too) to garner further insight into socionics, the relationships/communications between different types and how it is perceived by them as individuals and how that then influences a group mentality.

I did not however intend of turing this into a public feud, I'd prefer to keep it clean and resist petty insults.


Edit: I wrote this post 'on the fly', I have been having lots of thoughts regarding this for some time but now seemed an apt time to share some of them.

---

Eliza, Handi, SSmall, Stan and I all get along because we don't make harsh judgements of people and their positions like you do in a way that stands to discredit their authority (power dynamics much?).

YOU STARTED THIS THREAD. THIS IS THE CONTRADICTORY NATURE OF SEE WITH TI POLR

Hum...you were right Eliza...with the post I read of hers and how she addresses you and I and what positions we hold in public it is all Se and I'm confirming with that being final. SEE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Your first point. Its NOT that I "think not" because I never asked you. I had a thought. Do you ask permission or request more information before you have a thought? I think not! I made a simple assumption based on your posts on this forum. THEN I immediately asked you. "Am I right?" In other words: "I see this about you. Correct me if I am wrong."

---

It is estimated that 93% of communication is nonverbal. As such, it's unsurprising when there are misreadings of another's nonverbal communication. IF what you wrote here is true, then I apologize for misreading your "think not" and "type related" comments.

To answer:
Even though I have spent time observing people in different sexual practices, porn and most sexual things create 'icky' feelings in me. I can theoretically talk about sexual practices and the psychologies involved, and even joke some, but I have had to spend a lot of time desensitizing myself as an emotional protective measure. Even in romance books I usually skip the sex scenes. I have even ended relationships because I would not tolerate porn in the home.

As for gore. I'm having difficulty remembering the last movie/show i saw which had a lot of blood, deaths and such. Perhaps that vampire show with sukie? Or that "winter is coming" one...i don't remember how much gore/violence it has. I tend to ignore those parts or even roll my eyes if they are there just for gore value and not necessary to the story. I'm usually not focused on the things on the screen, but the relationships, motives, and events. I want to know why someone did something and how they felt when they did it, or when they experienced something. What is it like to be in their shoes? How will they handle the fall out? etc. The psychological aspects. I have not seen schindler's list because I thought it might be too intense psychologically for me, considering the subject matter. I've recently thought that maybe i should watch schindler's list, but if it has unnecessary violence in the story, then I probably won't. I've had no desire to see spartacus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

I don't see any other type except for P for 100%certain on this and I'm not changing that one. She's definitely an S and I don't type any other except for that. Again I'm leaning strongly towards the following thus far

ISTp
ISFp
ESTp
ESFp

I just don't see N anywhere.

---

Actually Maritsa you do not see the woods for the trees. Trees from seeds you have planted in your own mind already. It's ok, I don't take it personally, as afore mentioned this was more an experiment to see how yours and others minds works in relation to typing people. I wanted to identify the patterns you use, most of these are emotional responses of yours just fyi. You linked me to a site which you use to identify people, a source. On that site there was a test, a test by your own admission is inaccurate. This does make your typing style appear inaccurate by proxy.

I don't want to convince you of my type at all, it's not what i was going for, i'm not trying to win an argument I'm observing in order to identify patterns.

I wonder what you think the population breakdown for types actually is? Could you give me a rough idea of what you think the breakdown percentage wise is.... it would help me understand your own criteria. I have wondered if you think only the most abstract of speakers can be Ne but then i look at people you have typed as IEE and again I'm back to thinking it really is the females you have difficulty with. You are more willing to accept males as IEE, which is interesting.

Reading Jung's descriptions I can see how there is room for interpretation but even in pure Jung I personally identify a lot of Ne users on this forum.

So anyway, I would like to converse with you on this and am most interested in your idea of how society works with socionics types. Please explain it to me now that I have your attention.


Edit: In ref to another post you made in this thread, I don't think I have addressed Eliza personally.

Edit 2: In short; The 'guy' is Mind, He is most likely ILI. A couple of people here have guessed at SLI for him (I think this is because people have seen our interaction on tinychat and guessed we were duals) and maybe one or two have suggested delta nf. He has the most obvious Ni gaze I have ever seen and I'm certain of this for my own perception. Our communication is fairly effortless we have been talking for hours on end nearly ever day for approx a year without argument and constant interest in each others conversations, we did talk a lot before that too. We have a connection that is above and beyond what I am able to describe in words which was there well before we ever met in person.I have always felt an attraction to his voice which is very soothing and have had some intangible knowing that he will be in my life for a long time.Our conversation topics are diverse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anndelise

@Geminatronix, would you like me to request a thread split so that my disagreements with Eliza don't clutter up your VI thread?

---

Sure, I'd be happy with that. Not really so bothered personally but it might make it easier for others.

Huxley has some very direct viewpoints on the how the world should be, just like Napoleon. I think Maritsa is confused because she doesn't understand that Huxley waits on someone else to 'act' on their viewpoints.

All of the women in this thread in my viewpoint are equally stubborn; however, being stubborn is no bad thing.

What do I win?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InvisibleJim

Huxley has some very direct viewpoints on the how the world should be, just like Napoleon. I think Maritsa is confused because she doesn't understand that Huxley waits on someone else to 'act' on their viewpoints.

All of the women in this thread in my viewpoint are equally stubborn; however, being stubborn is no bad thing.

What do I win?

---

Constructive mark and possibly some abstract cheesecake. It's very tasty.

Never argue with Huxley.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maritsa

Trying to relate is so me :)

But she's a Static Se, held position which she does not allow to be challenged by an external force especially when she wants to uphold her (I mean HER) position. She will use any method possible because she's mobilized to achieve a goal...that may be to bring you down honey.

---

Oh! Okay! Thanks. This is useful. I was actually hoping for a Socionics explanation. Also add to this we are both Obstinate types....