Where to find/meet ESIs-ISFjs?

ITT Kassie gets pooped on for no reason :P

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Originally Posted by Rim

I found early on in the enneagram that negative qualities are good clues as to what type one actually is. They tend to be followed by horrid awakenings as to what one's real nature is. Sort of like a sudden objective glimpse into what one does and what one thinks one does. ESI or not, I am who I am and it manifests most clearly in my negative reactionary behavior. Don't take this the wrong way, ;) I'm not some self righteous angry maniac mindlessly attacking anyone who is amoral...but certainly tend towards that kind of behavior at times in a more rational manner.

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I can see a definite E6 slant to what you're saying here¹, though the truth of the first sentence allows it to stand alone. That is, the E-type that one finds embarrassing produces that response because it is cognizable as symbolizing one's essential faults and coping mechanisms. Personally I find this to be more true of the primary wing, which I think generally represents the seat of neurosis, than it is of the main type.²

However, since socionics concerns itself more with cognitive structuralism and interpersonal connectivity than it does with the identification and correction of deficiencies, that recognition might have a lesser effect when considering superego functions, though it will probably be present to some degree.³

Anyhow other than the initial, semi-friendly elbowing I wasn't really singling you out, just commenting on patterns I've noted on this particular forum.⁴

1. My response is less one of the E6's signature catastrophism expressed in a "horrid awakening" than it is an upwelling of laughter at the absurdity of existence. An E5 thing perhaps, maybe, potentially.
2. It is possible that the main type's foibles are less upsetting to one's self concept because they are so deeply integrated into the automatic defenses of one's ego, i.e. that portion of the mind we designate as being the conscious world-navigator, and so those deficiencies reside in a rather secure blind spot. However, the underlying shortcomings of the first wing are often an object of private contemplation and thus are more introspectively visible to the self.
3. There is no shortage whatsoever around here of complaints and excuses concerning the vulnerable function.
4. We'll save the torturous hazing necessary for induction into Gamma proper for another time. Be sure to have your application and filing fee in order at the appointed time, and eat no less than one hour prior to entering the dunk tank.

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Originally Posted by Jadae2point0

ITT Kassie gets pooped on for no reason :P

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I'm sure Bardia, Allie, and Tackk would be delighted to share.

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Originally Posted by Jadae2point0

ITT Kassie gets pooped on for no reason :P

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:confused: i didn't notice.

What you're describing, Rim, sounds closer to what Fi-creatives (usually of the delta variety) can often be like (e.g. Kim, Eliza Thomson), rather than Fi-base IME.

I'd look perhaps into that type before ISFj, but I'm only superficially going off of the traits you've described within yourself. So, grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by lungs

:confused: i didn't notice.

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Its a really harsh, misperceived reflection of the collective version of ISFj.

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Originally Posted by Jadae2point0

Its a really harsh, misperceived reflection of the collective version of ISFj.

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phew, good thing i'm not the collective version.

i'm not really sure what was harsh anyway, the idea of shoving ethics down people throats? thats such a common perception of fi base types that i don't even notice it as anything extraordinary anyway. and some people would probably say i do that. people that don't really understand me, of course. (:

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Originally Posted by lungs

phew, good thing i'm not the collective version.

i'm not really sure what was harsh anyway, the idea of shoving ethics down people throats? thats such a common perception of fi base types that i don't even notice it as anything extraordinary anyway. and some people would probably say i do that. people that don't really understand me, of course. (:

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Maybe you just need to beat their asses until they universally approve :P

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Originally Posted by Radio

What you're describing, Rim, sounds closer to what Fi-creatives (usually of the delta variety) can often be like (e.g. Kim, Eliza Thomson), rather than Fi-base IME.

I'd look perhaps into that type before ISFj, but I'm only superficially going off of the traits you've described within yourself. So, grain of salt.

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You mean IEE specifically? Yeah I thought I was delta initially, but it always felt "off" somehow and I decided socionics was bullshit until someone mentioned I should look at ESI. There is a kind of agression and tendency to be confrontational that deltas seem to lack while I don't. I'd put it down to their lack of Se. Similarly in the MBTI I scored NFP, however when on the forums I can't relate to them for some reason, too much whining, passive agression, feeling expression and they run from conflict (so I still don't have an MBTI type :p either).

I do tend to be willful and reject information at first before I check it out...<.< however imo stereotyping is bullshit and one shouldn't confuse high intellignce with being iNtuitive, especially not with having logic preference (something many people tend to do)

Why are we talking about my type anyway?

Btw I know OP from another forum where he asked about his type and I gave my opinion on it, I wouldn't go near his beta ass with a 10 ft pole thou.

Only Chuck Norris can find ESIs, ESIs usually grab you when they want you

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Only Chuck Norris can find ESIs, ESIs usually grab you when they want you

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for real?has this ever happened to you?

only ESI is able to chuck Chuck in

In my experience ESIs tend to be very pragmatic and have a natural attention to detail. What this means in the realm of theater is that they trend toward taking on the role of director, which is very a very detailed oriented position as well as dealing heavily with interpersonal relationships, and stage manager which is almost an exclusively detail oriented position. Stage managers are like secretaries with authority.

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Originally Posted by Radio

What you're describing, Rim, sounds closer to what Fi-creatives (usually of the delta variety) can often be like (e.g. Kim, Eliza Thomson), rather than Fi-base IME.

I'd look perhaps into that type before ISFj, but I'm only superficially going off of the traits you've described within yourself. So, grain of salt.

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As an EII who is well experienced in delivering the Verbal Bitch Slap of Justice (TM), it's not at all impossible to be :Fi: base and have that habit. If you're going off of other information outside of this thread, then I can't really say anything, but I disagree that Rim should potentially consider other type options because he/she tends to lambaste people over perceived offenses.

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Originally Posted by blackburry

LOL, talking to pregnant chicks.................................i can imagine that not working out.

well number one, don't ever be desperate. (not saying you are..but beware of how you're coming across),
and have a lot of confidence. it's always more charming to see the best part of someone and slowly be exposed to the nerdier/dorkier side so it becomes endearing and not annoying or a red flag.
Idk if it's type related but once a guy has my interest, I tend to pursue him... and make him think he's done all the work when things come together. biggest turnoff is when a guy chases after me..I like a lot of distance initially and a few ESIs I know see the same.. Se subtypes.

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bingo. glad you pointed that out. So what happens when you're in a relationship?

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Originally Posted by jennifer1

for real?has this ever happened to you?

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Creative :Se: is in the air

I'm the opposite; I like someone to take initiative and get to know me. I'm usually the quiet, distant, shy, bundled up person in the corner somewhere. I like for people to show their nerdy or intellectual side first then unravel their fun/outgoing side later.

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Creative :Se: is in the air

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that was no sarcasm.i really want to know. if they are like that i will raise the issue on the next ESI internationale.this is serious.

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Originally Posted by jennifer1

that was no sarcasm.i really want to know. if they are like that i will raise the issue on the next ESI internationale.this is serious.

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I'm serious, :Se: girls approach the guys they like, :Si: wait for others to approach them, IMO.

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

I'm serious, :Se: girls approach the guys they like, :Si: wait for others to approach them, IMO.

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generalized too quickly probably. If I drew any conlusion (very carefuly, though), I'd say that it also depends on other elements in the model A.

Ethics more readily respond to and generate attraction, so in fact they can just manipulate your approach.
What's more, :Si: is dynamic in itself, so it can respond variously, depending on a situation and willpower. Maybe they won't go directly but they will find a way to get what they want.

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Originally Posted by jennifer1

that was no sarcasm.i really want to know. if they are like that i will raise the issue on the next ESI internationale.this is serious.

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I doubt all ALL esis initiate especially with different cultural expectations and everything. But I would bet that there is a general trend of being upfront regardless who makes the first move. And of attempts at playing coy or hard to get coming off awkward. Fi + Se is sort of a perfect cocktail for knowing what you want and being real about it but of course how Fi + Se manifests in each person is different and all that jazz so "grab" isn't going to always be true.

u sure

Okay it's always true.

Yeah, well, I don´t know, in my culture of origin (Italy) girls never make the first move, or almost never anyway. They likely don´t need to. Even the most extraverted Se dominant women kind of don´t, as far as I have seen.

idk it's not about "needing to," i'm glad i live in a country that's more progressive that way. being chased after is gross.

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Originally Posted by lungs

idk it's not about "needing to," i'm glad i live in a country that's more progressive that way. being chased after is gross.

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I don´t think this trait is easy to understand without incurring in stereotypes. It´s simply something that you never see anyone doing, so - if you´ve lived in the same place until that time - you tend not to do it, aswell. Similarly, if you´re a male and you see every male immediately trying to approach a girl he finds attractive, that becomes the "norm". Being "chased" after is only gross if you don´t like the guy (girl), I would guess.

I'd like to understand how "chasing" is percieved?

I know with her, we'll hang out and it'll be great, then for the next 3 days she'll text me and call me with good energy and I won't initiate, then on the 4th and 5th day I'll text her (because I want to) and she'll turn off and stop texting me for a couple weeks.

I used to be the same way, women who made themselves too available were of no interest to me. I got so sick of it I forced myself to just go for it anyway. Shit's frustrating even to myself.

then I read this:

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Aggressor: Aggressors tend to perceive other Aggressors as exciting partners worthy of admiration and respect, but ultimately unsatisfactory due to a sense of never-ending competition for an ill-defined "upper hand", which becomes frustrating.

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Originally Posted by lungs

idk it's not about "needing to," i'm glad i live in a country that's more progressive that way. being chased after is gross.

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My INTp brother often tells me I'm acting "needy," so I suspect it has something to do with quadra values. The concept of being a male "victim" to me just seems like they sit around all day and hope some girl falls through their roof, which I don't feel like sitting around waiting for. I suspect "victims" are the ones who believe meeting the one "just happens." HA! If only they knew

i remember reading that article about victims ,pseudo-victims yaddayadda

i think that IXIs are more susceptible to being vocal about obsessing over their love interests whereas ENXjs will just go on with their lives doing stuff like proper Si polrs and the more someone enters their "space" the greater the impact. i'd that it's more likely an IXI will remember you because Ip temp makes it easier to focus for longer on what interests them.or not.

I think victims do a little chasing too, just in a different not annoying way. Maybe I'll say more later when I'm not waiting for a bus but for now I'll just quote this part of a Balzac book I'm reading that made me lol:

"this moment is full of charm for the one who can guess all that passes in a woman's mind. Who has not refrained from giving his opinion, to prolong her suspense, concealing his pleasure from a desire to tantalize, seeking a confession of love in her uneasiness, enjoying the fears that he can dissipate by a smile?"

As for being chased idk it makes me feel restricted whether I like the guy or not.

But I think its complicated by gender stuff which can make things annoying

usually,to be chased can feel like a painful and clumsy head-on attack made by someone who sees you monodimensionally and is usually uncapable of processing the rest of you.

Where can I meet ESIs, I want to meet them so so so so badly.

Well it does say aggressors want some degree of "control." The "ickiness" probably has something to do with that.