I did not create isocion. I made fun of it, calling them the underwear gnomes of Socionics! I did not advertise for them! I was mocking them!
do you dislike alpha SFs or just what passes for the descriptions of them on this forum.
It is all based on that darn Static/Dynamic Process/Result dichotomy. I am totally blind to information elements. I really cannot see them in action. I cannot tell Fi from Fe without somebody pointing it out to me. But I can see result and process really well, and a few other Reinin traits. I am still struggling with static/dynamic.
I am a result type. I am rational. That leaves ESE/LII/LIE/ESI
I am logical: So that leaves LII and LIE.
I cannot tell on the other Reinin traits to really narrow it down, but I would normally say I am merry, which puts me as LII. However,, I seem to be decisive, which is a contradiction as no type is Logical, Rational, Merry, Result, and Decisive. Also some definitions of merry serious make me wonder about being merry. So I might be an odd Enneagram 9 LIE. That would make me very laid back with my Te. (Yes, E9 LIEs are possible, but atypical.)
Plus, in Model B I would have Minus style Te, which is an interest in experimentation, risk and a scorn for "low profit" actions. (That fits me) But I am not yet ready to declare myself an atypical LIE. If I am an odd LIE, then my duals would be in gamma. I seem to always be around Se/Ni types in real life, but I seem to do okay with everyone except SLIs. I seem to have no enemies but SLIs.
The SLI problem has been unsolvable for me as an LII. They should be my beneficiary, but instead they react to me like a am a freak. They seem to think I am psychopathic, nutty, or creepy. The only description that fits them is supervision, wherein they see the results of my talents as being "magical." So they react with fear. They cannot fathom my thought process and so treat me like a crazed sorcerer. They constantly try to repress me. They always say NO, Stop that! My OLDER brother is an SLI. I sometimes try typing him as something else, in order to get the intertype relations to fit, but he simply seems very SLI.
SLIs supervise LIEs.
As an Enneagram 9, I do not want to "supervise" anybody, and I relate well to IEIs I know. I do not have any real problems with SEIs either. Only SLIs are a problem. I do not fit the "know it all" image of the LIE. I am not yet declaring myself an LIE.
There is no way that I am "process." Thus I am not an EIE.
My brother is beyond a reasonable doubt, and SLI even if I have a hard time typing people. I am not an IEI, at least I do not think so. I am too self confident.
Process is about the order of events. (books are read linearly, work is done meticulously) Result types do things in a random order.
You are confusing logic with process. They are not the same. I am logical, and rational. Rational means I can justify my decisions to others. Logical means I make use of logic to select an option. Process is about work patterns. You cannot observe process here. What you saw was logic. Process is about the orientation to action. Following premises is not following process.
A result type uses reification to orientate. A process type uses abstraction. Reification is the use of logical spirals to move from a "generality" to a "specific" result. Abstraction is the movement of specific data into general positions. Specific to general is a process. General to specific is a result. This is to be observed in activity.
It is contrasted with that which is observed by justification (which is rational / irrational) or in decision making (which is logical or ethical.) There is not enough action here to measure process. You are looking at justifications and decision making.
A result orientation would be this: To reimagine the type description of the LIE so it can fit me, as I am seeking the result of intertype relations that seem to work. I am specifying my type from a conceptual spiral of reified generalities.
Reinin is easy if you are logical. It is based on the careful separation of fine distinctions. He is using micro categories.
Imagine it as questions:
1. How do you justify yourself? (That is the rational / irrational dichotomy.)
2. How do you make choices? (That is ethical / logical dichotomy.)
3. How do you orientate to action? (That is process / result.)
4. How do you break down observations? (Static / dynamic)
My activity is orientated to result seeking. My justification is rational, my choice based on logic.
Nobody here is smart enough to use Reinin.
Look at the reinin dichotomies by comparing them with IE's from Model A instead of trying to identify with the description of the dichotomies
Merry means Ti/Fe, Serious means Te/Fi the same with the decisive/judicious dichotomie
Other example:
- The yielding types have evaluatory http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/1/12/Symbol_p.gif http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/a/a3/Symbol_r.gif and situational http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/0/01/Symbol_l.gif http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/2/20/Symbol_e.gif .
- The obstinate types have evaluatory http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/0/01/Symbol_l.gif http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/2/20/Symbol_e.gif and situational http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/1/12/Symbol_p.gif http://www.wikisocion.org/en/images/a/a3/Symbol_r.gif.
@malna gave me this very good advice
Edit: I also remember your post from the career thread where you described your goals but especially the way how you want to reach them. That makes me think your process oriented. lol i do now exactly that what I recommend you not to do. But this dichotomie is with +/- and I didn't accept that now :)
If I am process I am either ILE or ILI. I am uncertain of this. I will suspend judgment of my type for a little while. @Daft21 what was the career thread? I do not remember it?
And AbsurdEnough is just looking for confrontations. He wants to be frisky. I don't get that. Anyway, I will revisit this later.
Or you were simply insulted when you perceived your understanding of Reinin dichotomies and intelligence to be harshly questioned.
I think that is a misunderstanding. Saberstorm finished with that bit about intelligence just so that people don't assume he has low self-esteem on the grounds of him admitting not understanding something, even though he knows that that is not something to be ashamed of.
So that was not really an attack on you.
None owes to accept any kind opinion or argument just because it is offered as help.
PS. You are not doing a good job of pretending not to be ethical. :biggrin:
...and that's why you felt that explaining Sabestorm's motives to William was due. Like a logic to an ethic.
Other than that, I think you're right. And I honestly can't see the reasoning behind this persisting in one method over the other if the other seems more convenient to a person.
have you considered LSE ? this is my gut feeling from your picture/way of being/how you speak/ect.
Ho, the IEI you have identified are probably EII (and this is really likely if you can maintain easily a conversation with them). They are often confused and they even confuse themself. EII think they are spiritual and special so type IEI, IEI think they are wise and moral so type EII.
ಠ_ಠ
Yeah, I don't know what you are doing.
How long did it take you to arrive to the current self typing?
Do you expect anyone to believe that you attacking him is about him using Reinin when in the beginning you were trying to help him using Reinin dichotomies?
No, i don't exist for them unless i'm placed high within their mating hierarchy and they seem to favor character traits i got over when i was 5 years old as attractive - wannabe badboy bullshit and general cockiness without substance - where if i lack that chav-bullshittery they see it as weakness and goes on to fuck someone that meets their requirements, just to attempt to scold me if they think i have feelings for them; so they can see that and get emotional response from me that boosts their ego.
So dealing with them feels a bit like a "fuck you" from people who tell themselves that their lack of self-confidence and dependency on other people actually is "social competence" and if i'm not like that i'm "tragic" - which is of course projection.
But that's women in general - male duals i get along with fine however - could be something with me having 0% Fe but i prefer ISTj and ISTp women over INFp since they're not histrionic dramawhores that put themselves on a piedestal.
I don’t care about duals or any type when it comes to a mate. I honestly think I might bore an ESFp after a while and they’re LOUD from my previous observations. I also like being the chivalrous one and I like to buy my mate gifts, flowers, etc.However, I wouldn’t rule out an ESFp. All I want is a person who likes and understands me. A person who doesn’t constantly tell me I’m an eccentric fruitcake, so I can avoid the whole “call me crazy ONE more time.”
I’m not too worried about it. There’s more to life… We’re all lucky if we can find one person who really gets us, so screw worrying about type when it comes to the mating game.
Duality is a theory that makes as much sense as shooting my cat.
I have a young female SLE cousin, and she re-sparked the magic of duality for me. Because there is no romantic drama, no peer expectations of being cool.. we just like being around each other and "fall into harmony" at times. We do ridiculous things like trying to catch crabs on a rocky shore that are totally unreachable and we reach some kind of euphoria in the process. Although, there is still some drama bc her mother is a controlling EIE who becomes extremely insecure at how easy our relations are, and she elbows her way in every time like this is a high school gathering she is being left out of :reallymad:.
I have too much to say about duality in a romantic partner, and at the same time nothing to say, bc I really think that a IEI-SLE pairing is too unstable to ever work out, and bc I'm very happy with my Se-subtype LSI.
Duality brings depth, connection anf meaning of various degrees. But what that or any intertype relation does not bring is chemistry. The pull, the sparks, the interest.
A personality type is part of the dimmensions that make someone up, It's not everything. I also fibd im not pulled to every dual. The best chemistry or affection has been with sees and an ese rather than beta friends...while a couple of duals I have had anwzung chemistry with, some barely left much of an emotional indent (abd ive been typing for 5 years now, I know what I'm doing ;)) I feel more chemistry with my delta parents than my DEFINITE beta sister and alpha sister. I have more conflicts and shit, but more chemistry.
The problem with Socionics is that people see people as walking types. They stop listening to their knowledgeable emotions and natural reasoning about people and listen to the system. Yes, duality is the fucking shiiiit, with the right dual! I limited my self and life too much for not seeing beyond typology and It's not even the right way to see the world, and SO many of us do that here. We need to see beyond types...so you're not attracted to some duals, keep going and listen to your feelings in the moment.