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My sample size was three couples, and I only debriefed one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baqer
I typically find that ILEs are extremely liberal in their views. However, they might be unconsciously expecting a Caregiver SEI rather than a Victim IEI. The SEI will typically be a caring mother, while the IEI will typically take a more hands-off approach to her kids. At least, that's what I've seen. Again, from a very small sample size.
Have you found SEI's to be more liberal or conservative?Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I only know a few SEIs, and I don't get close enough to them to learn their politics. Except one, and she seems liberal, but I could be wrong. She's married to an Air Force ESE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baqer
I think pretty much every Alpha I've met seems to be vaguely liberal-aligned. They don't necessarily have to call themselves liberals, but they have a sense of progressivism that completely rules out conventional conservatism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baqer
Alpha seem to care too much about politics, society...
I think I liked a guy at school who was EII. Most likely C subtype and perhaps 926 tritype (which is the same as my dad). Not that he reminded of my dad or anything, it’s just something I’ve thought of now.
Edit: Nah, think he was ESI on second thoughts.
I fell pretty hard for an ENTJ chick. What - a - dis - aster. Yet, after all of that I can't bad mouth her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I couldn't disagree more. I don't know about ILE, but I know LII, ESE, and SEI have a tendency to be very conservative, typically in social/aesthetic areas nearly impervious to trendy progressive ideals.Quote:
Originally Posted by lawter
I also once find a SEE girl interesting but soon I found out that we are too different. I think it is because that the conflict type exactly has our superego block. The superego block is exactly what we are struggling when adapting to the society and it's in the mental ring. So we might find the conflict type to be somewhat complementary: they have different I/E attitude, and they exactly have our Role and PoLR functions in their ego. However, when the relationship develops, it's not hard to find our the two persons have opposite quadra values.
I surround myself with my opposite quadra it seems, I have quite a bit of SEI and ESE friends. They’re not the smoothest of friendships especially with ESE's, but that didn’t stop me from dating an ESE. I know one ILE he's pretty alright.
Alphas are not gay pride material but neither are deltas. This is because you can f*ck that sheep consensually (although the sheep has to have pretty high IQ) as much as you like without support or condemnation. Progressive today = regressive tomorrow and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by skosh
Gay pride is sensing-feeling stuff.
More specifically Beta, aggressively in your face, Fe-Se.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
Well, what I meant was sensing and feeling activity orientation, SEI, ESE, SEE, and ESI. They are the most sociable types and tend to have less interests in "deeper" subjects, which ligns up with my experience with how people are expected to be in this scene, though my experience with it limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by LemurianLo
Betas are often into deeper intellectual or artistic subjects, because they have either strong and valued Ti or Ni, which fits in less with gay pride or club scenes imo.
Btw Fe-Se is the natural circuit for ESE in model G.
The only time I was romantically attracted to someone in the opposite quadra was online and online isn't really the same thing. He was SLI.
I always thought it was kinda something like:
Obvious "Beta" in your face gay man that annoys you with how predictably gay he is. His gay porn collection: About 150 vids.
A redneck "Delta" huntsman trucker who has to keep up a toxic masculine appearance of cruelty and harm. His gay porn collection: About 15,000 videos.
I guess my point is, brooding in a dark corner while smoking a cig isn't necessarily hiding your homosexuality any better than wearing a purple glitter thong while dancing to Lady Gaga but YMMV.
I get that gay guys most likely want to give a bj/start a romance with the masculine guy in a dark corner and not talk about it the next day cuz it's more manly and hot or whatever and there often isn't anything homoerotic or 'real' enough about silly PC gay pride parades but I'm just saying.
Off-topic (Kinda?) but can we please drool over how hot/sexy/cute Tj Osborne is? Daaang. more gay music for @flames and @DeliMeat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY6cMMtLCcQ
I find it easy to befriend ESIs, and they often become very significant in my life. But I don't really come into contact with gamma all that often, I wonder if I naturally repel them. LIEs have been pretty cool to talk to though, I wouldn't mind being friends with them
Close the psychological distance between you & someone other than your dual or identical. Check out how fun it stops being
HmmQuote:
Originally Posted by BandD
gamma: full of lust and think that it should be repressed/expressed by taking action
alpha: antisexual or asexual weirdos due to who cares attitude.
My longest relationship was with an EIE and that lasted for 2 years, we were romantically charged and everything it was just a really rocky relationship with a lot of misunderstandings. Probably atleast partially due to ITR. There was also an SLE I used to banter with back in Highschool and even though I was attracted to her physically and emotionally I knew we wouldn't work out if we dated. All in all I think its reasonable that you can be attracted to your conflicting quadra as duality can only cover so many aspects and there are factors outside of it that come into your romantic life.
I've found myself deeply attracted to just about every type at one point or another (maybe except comparative/kindreds). IEIs, LIEs, SLEs, LSEs, IEEs, SEEs, ESIs ...especially ESIs. I've also noticed when it comes to NFs, I'm totally comfortable invading their space, which is mostly against my nature other than with duals. It's not even intentional really, I just end up in very close proximity with them, unaware of how I got there, forward and comfortable with them. But I've now come to see the wisdom of seeking a dual, because even when I find extraordinary psychological closeness with beneficiaries, mirages, contraries, and the like, I feel let down, repeatedly, in little ways a dual would view as catastrophic.
In an ideal world this wouldn't even be up for debate. You'd feel some draw towards them, but not as strongly as your dual or another more mutually beneficial relationship. However, Socionics ain't everything and some things are actually far more critical in regards to forming a healthy and lasting romantic relationship.
Chief amongst these is a secure sense of attachment. A conflictor couple who lack any attachment issues will do far better overall than a dual relationship with significant unresolved attachment issues. In all honesty, that ought to be the thing you fix first. Don't try to find your dual until you've resolved your attachment issues. Given how fucked up the modern world is most all of us have them. Find them, resolve them, then and only then try to find a mate. Otherwise, you'll just end up with someone just as fucked up as you are and spawn kids who will continue the cycle (if you're male you'll be lucky if they're even "yours" genetically just sayin' so keep that in mind).
I've said it elsewhere but it really is the Elephant in the room nobody is addressing. Pick-up artists say all women are hopeless meat socks seeking only to be filled by the most "alpha" of cocks (so fuck em' and dump em' literally and figuratively). Feminists say all men are depraved rapey pigs who'll sleep with anyone consenting or not (so fuck em' and abort their babies to show em' who's boss quite literally).
Both of these fools have clear and glaring attachment issues. Mostly stemming from the absence of or, as may be the more common case where I live, the presence of a Father with major attachment issues (which, if you haven't already gotten the hint, also directly implies mommy has them just as bad if not worse). I mean, if he can't even truly bond with the woman he literally fucked to bring you into existence, how the hell will he ever bond with you? Either way, you get the same end result. Broken homes. Broken Families. Broken people regardless of type.
It has often been stated, for instance, that the ILI is a stereotypical atheist. I'd argue that is very true, for a broken ILI. I'm probably still a bit defective, might have an issue or two I've yet to resolve, but for the very life of me how anyone who sees the world in even the remotest of ways similar to me cannot conclude that God (The Catholic/Christian God) exists in spite of anything telling him/her not to utterly baffles me. It's so obvious that it defies the laws of logic as to how anyone would/could deny it even in a vacuum.
This is a good direction to take this thread. Attachment. I'd argue that the broken seek the broken and the fixed see them for who and what they are, give an attempt at a "tune-up", see that it's likely to net them a "death flag" if they try harder, and then logically bounce. Fixing some rando, no matter how hot or otherwise attractive, ain't worth their life.
Thus all the good men/women end up happily married. And the rest end up in divorce court sooner or later. The fact that showing up with a dick in America means you automatically lose is intentional BTW. Best way to induce an attachment issue in a kid is to make sure daddy's never there for any reason. As I said before, Tolstoy had it wrong. Unhappy families are all the same and they all sing this one refrain: Daddy was an evil dick undeserving and incapable of any form of love!
Superego relationships are much stronger than what Socionics seems to credit them, especially-work wise. They are two types that will often find themselves on the same path taking similar approaches to similar goals and priorities even though their perspectives of and preferences for the actual objectives are usually opposite (but much the same as duals). In a work environment, superego partners mesh much quicker than duals; their problem seems to be that one or both may feel overexposed to the other because there's a temperament familiarity that doesn't exist with duals. However, nine-tenths of most marriages is work.
a.k.a. I/O
I realised recently that someone from my past was my super-ego. It was just this guy I met and we went on some dates. He was nice and there was some magnetism but after I while I felt two things: 1. I thought he seemed a little snobby and perhaps a bit boring, (not that bad though!) and 2. like @Rebelondeck says I felt a bit exposed or like I couldn’t be vulnerable around him. This happened with an SEI guy before too.
Up until recently I had thought the SLI was LSI because our communication had been quite easy/interesting. I bumped into this guy again later and he seemed to want to talk again (even though he has a girlfriend...).
There was a bit of a spark there with us (which could have developed into something if we’d dated for longer) but for me, at the time the spark didn’t feel enough. I think sensors can be much better at sensing these things..
Do parental or otherwise intimate relations with opposite quadra result in neuroticism?
It can, and too much same quadra can make people close-minded and neurotic in its own way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stray Cat
It showed up more as apathy and physical symptoms for me but I felt I was losing it more than once. "Those are very alright people, why is it so awful?" kind of thing.
Not sure I ever personally associated being quadra-centric with neuroticism that's kinda the beauty of other people's takes. Being quadra-centric sorta reminds me of tribalism or the desire to feel inclusive, perhaps even superior. Some may employ quadra-centrism to boost the ego while actually doing jack sh*t to help societyQuote:
Originally Posted by flowers and sugar
Tbf, being entirely diplomatic sucks a bit for me. We SLEs can be bullish. Sucks for delta friendships
It's sort of a "us against them" where "us" is very small and threatened by a much bigger "them", it's a rather extreme situation tho. Imagine you find a person, or a few, who are much like you and you find them amazing but the rest of the world isn't having it, feels ostracizing and can create neuroticism in some people. Probably not you, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stray Cat
I don't think anyone is entirely diplomatic, that's being an angel, not a person. Everyone will have its own shitty behavior, so whatev your bullishness, delta ST aren't any better, just different.
It's not necessary to be friends to remain open and learn from people, to simply respect their existance and appreciate their vision. Acknowledging them and keeping enough distance to keep things light is good enough imo. That's why I like reading, don't even have to talk to anyone. :lol:
I find lots of people attractive. I think all of the types that fit traditional feminine roles i.e. SFs would be like be the most attractive.
I find lots of women of my own type and IEI to be attractive. But I think it's for the same reason.
I don't think I've ever found an ILE or IEE attractive.
I will initially be attracted to ILI and SLI and then realize they are too touchy, private, and hostile for me.
I saw above that superego relations are good. I would not feel comfortable trying to get close to an LSE personally.
I feel about LxEs the same way they probably feel about me "BOOOORRRIING!"
I feel like Te types react to Fe the same way Ti types react to Fi. They see it as invasive and presumptuous.
This happens. Just because we're supposedly more compatible with a certain type, that doesn't stop us from finding others attractive. For me I've found IEEs, IEIs, SEEs and SLEs attractive.
I like SLEs and SLIs.
i talk about this ad nauseam, but i find pretty much all ILEs i meet/know of extremely attractive. they usually have this intense nature about them that is unlike other types.
I'm LII, and I consistently get along better with Betas than I "should"--I think I've had more Beta friends than Alpha. I don't know if this has to do with the fact that both my parental figures are Beta. However, I get along with them better than with my Alpha relatives. It might have to do with my subtype too; I believe I have stronger Ti and Ni than other LII's. I've never experienced anything close to duality with ESE besides just really liking each other and feeling that we're complementary. I prefer the wild, intense feeling of semiduality I get around EIE. Alphas are more "like me," but by chance, fate, or subconscious choice, I often end up around Betas.
I totally get the Beta obsession thing. I romanticize Ni/Se. On the other hand, you don't give off an EII vibe--are you sure that's your type? Not saying I could type you from a few paragraphs. Anyway, I've far outgrown the "Wikisocion is always right" idea. The theory is not versatile enough and doesn't account for individual differences. I'm not "secretly LSI" just because Beta appeals to me in some ways.