Model B simplified -check it out!
Kitchen of Quadras and Model B simplified
If we leave aside at the moment all theoretical bla- bla - bla of the model B and just look at its structure and what it has new to offer compared to Model A. This is a brief introduction only and does not include a lot of meaning, more about the form today.
If you remember i showed the model B for INTJ as an example:
INTJ: -Ti………...I………….Te+
+Ne ……I……….Ni -
-Se…...I……..Si+
+Fi………..I…………..Fe -
Sory it did not come out as proper butterfly shape.
1. Model B suggests a relocation of the blocks into a Butterfly model and suggests that functions in a psychic structure should be also considered in the same form. The relocation of blocks offers a better meaning/insight into psychodynamics or interaction between blocks and functions.
This interaction is based on the principles of balancing between: extraversion/introversion (2 elements), rationality/irrationality (2elelments) as well as positivism + and negativism - (2 more elements). Positivism and negativism do not need to be taken literally but rather as energy and direction of flow. Positivists and negativists can be very good people. Good or bad is the realm of morality /Antimoraltiy dimension.
The direction of infor/energy flow is important for dynamics, development and progress: clockwise/involutionary/right swastika
anticlockwise/evolutionary/left swastika.
The Model B suggests this location of blocks and functions within them is following:
Ego: + Fe - - Te + .....I... Id: +Se - - Ne +
Superego - Fi + + Ti - ... I... Superid: - Si + + Ni -
And therefore this location of Types within the blocks:
Ego : +ESFJ, ENFJ-, -ESTJ, ENTJ+
Id : +ESFP, ESTP-, -ENFP, ENTP+
Superego: -ISFJ, INFJ+, +ISTJ, INTJ-
Superid: -ISFP, ISTP+, +INFP, INTP-
The model which gave birth to colour theory is very simple. If you replace the letter sign for the function with a symbol of the function and cut it mentally in half - you will get two types for each side, for example Fi: left negatively loaded side is ISFJ and the right one positively loaded is INFJ.
The model already explained static dynamic dichotomy and today I explain where positivist /negativist dichotomy comes from (see blocks above). Each type is represented in blocks accordingly to Reinin dichotomy as positivists and negativists as follows:
Ego: + :Fe: - :Si: + :Ni: - :Te: + ESFJ
- :Fe: + :Ni: - :Si: + :Te: - ENFJ
- :Te: + :Si: - :Ni: + :Fe: - ESTJ
+ :Te: - :Ni: + :Si: - :Fe: + ENTJ
Id: + :Se: - :Fi: + :Ti: - :Ne: + ESFP
- :Se: + :Ti: - :Fi: + :Ne: - ESTP
- :Ne: + :Fi: - :Ti: + :Se: - ENFP
+ :Ne: - :Ti: + :Fi: - :Se: + ENTP
Superego:
- :Fi: + :Se: - :Ne: + :Ti: - ISFJ
+ :Fi: - :Ne: + :Se: - :Ti: + INFJ
+ :Ti: - :Se: + :Ne: - :Fi: + ISTJ
- :Ti: + :Ne: - :Se: + :Fi: - INTJ
Superid:
Can you do it yourself :wink: ?
AS you can see the negtivists start and finish with - and positivists on the opposite with +
The model did not answer all questions yet but I am sure it will.
Model suggests two major oppositions/dimensions for balancing in creation of dynamics between blocks:
1. control (Ego) -submission (Superid) and
2. Selfishness (ID) - Sacrifice (Superego)
AS colour theory has demonstrated oppositions exist between all blocks in different directions and they all play role in the interrelationship between the types.
The model B suggests that Ego (rational extraversion -Control/Free will -adult ) and Superego block (rational introversion -Sacrifice -adult) represent Block Adult. Id (extraverted irrationality -Selfishness- child) and Superid (introverted irrationality -child) represent Block Child. Blocks Ego and Id represent extraversion and wheel Life and blocks Superego and Superid represent wheel Death/Afterlife.
At the end I would like remind you that model B offer very sensible explanation of the development of psyche in time.
1. I do accept that all conscious functions originate in subconscious/unconscious (or wherever Young meant!).
2. I suggest that they do not only originate there but they also end up there like in a storage place. Some of the info lays on the surface (subconscious ) and some goes deeper into unconscious.
3. According to model B: the beginning and the end is in the Child block which contains two blocks Id and Superid.
2. The model also shows the common phases of the development of psyche:
1. An egg is associated with the phase of Superid block - stage of dependance on mothers body.
2. Caterpillar stage - Id block - Nurturance - rapid physical growth.
Both stages represent childhood.
3. Chrysalis - Ego development stage - stage of transformation and maturity into adulthood.
4. Butterfly stage - colourful stage of adulthood, productivity, confidence, fulfilment, wisdom.
5. The end of the extraverted stage Life is back to Superid, feeling old and sick and understanding that material world is not the mean to the end. Preparation for the next stage Afterlife.
6. Death and the Judging day. If the soul is bad it can stop its’ development. Magic number 6 represents the power of Devil to take the soul. If the soul is good it will continue to improve until it will go to Nirvana for ever. Stage 7 represents the beginning of the new Afterlife circle.
First of all I would like to know what do you think about the model so far before I will introduce my recent ideas. Don’t’ hesitate to call it Balderdash - if you feel like it. I don’t mind. Questions welcome.
Re: Model B simplified -check it out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olga
Kitchen of Quadras and Model B simplified
(deleted to save space)
Superid:
Can you do it yourself :wink: ?
Up to this point, it offered something I might have been willing to work with at another time in the future. Past this point, when it got into the control, sacrifice, selfishness, child blocks; and the development of psyche using the egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, butterfly metaphor with a judging day and recycle concept......
It reads too much like religio-psycho-babble, to me. But then, I had problems reading DarkAngelFireWolf69's quadra stuff that you and Rick were nice enough to have taken the time to post. To me, the quadra stuff read like psycho-babble.
I think, that there is only so much I'm willing to accept before I want to delve into the theory to find it's basic building blocks. In my belief, those building blocks must be based on something that can be experienced or observed. (for example; I find it easier to accept premises that point out that "A is moving in the direction of B". What I find harder to accept is when someone describes that movement as "A is attracted to B". I can see A's movement, but I cannot see A's attraction.)
So, when someone writes:
Quote:
1. control (Ego) -submission (Superid) and
2. Selfishness (ID) - Sacrifice (Superego)
and then builds up a theory off of that, I'm still stuck trying to figure out how they got Ego as control, Superid as submission, Id as selfishness, and Superego as sacrifice. For that matter, half of the time I'm trying to figure out how Freud got the id, ego, superego, superid stuff in the first place.
(Note: I have a similar problem with model A's terms of "role", "vulnerable", "suggestive", "mobilizing", "ignoring", "demonstrative" terminology...and build up using those ideas. I can grasp "base", I can grasp "creative", I can sort of grasp "role", but that's as far as I'm willing to accept. I find it much easier to consider the relationships of identical functions, complimenting functions, inhibiting functions, and correcting functions, both in relating with others, as well as relating within one's self.)
I do not feel comfortable offering comments/critiques regarding model B, because I just don't get it. That doesn't mean that I think that there isn't something to get, only that, it's beyond me, personally.
Sinn or internal conflicts within the pcyche
Today I would like to take your attetnion to the positivism and negativism of working functions: together or against each other.
Part 1 (short and sweet)
Two functions in each block of the Model B can work together in a positive direction or against each other in a negative direction.
There is internal conflict in each block of the Model B:
:Te: ignores :Fe: and :Fe: tends to ignore :Te: and this happens in each block. Due to this internal conflicts or in other words pulling into different directions - the functions of one block do not ever appear "together" but in reality they are separated by many factors:
1. By the wheels: Life or Afterlife.
2. By different role they play in the Psyche: the type of producing or collecting/accepting info
3. Rationality/conscious (Wheel Adult) and irrationality/subconscious (wheel Child).
I guess there are more factors in reality than I mention now.
This assumption further emphasize the statement that the base (1) and the (4 )role functions are leading and there must be the crucial difference between the types within each block: Ego, Superego, Id, Superid.
I would interpret it that conflict as a driving force and a very basics of interaction between functions or Sin is inborn in a human psyche. The idea of the psyche development is to overcome conflicts and achieve positivity and balance.
Example of the conflicts: Te versus Fe.
Social services + police in the Old Good England separate the mother and the child on a basis that the mother smacked the child in public and one of the school parents happened to see it while driving in the car.
In fact her husband was counted as the second witness because he was in car as well. All what my firend had to confirm that she was the in that place and that time. Unfortunately she was already on the record because she left once the child alone. They were separated once before when the child was 7. The child was put into care for 72 hours. - to “Anty Betty house”. A few months later the child happened to pass her house and was all in tears because he remembered straight away what is what like.
Now they separated the mother and the child again. Both were screaming and hold by two policemens.
The whole procedure was dome in cool blood: Te does not care for Fe.
There are reasons behind everything and to a certain degree she deserves it - I amnot go into the reasons they are private. I used her situation as an example.
In part two I will continue: the positivism /negativism in colour theory and how hypnotism works with regards to the blocks.
Please, contribute in which way the functions in other blocks ignore each other or work against each other
Or how they can positively work together by keeping a distance.
Colour theory and hypnotism
Just to clarify quickly the conflicts in other blocks:
Superid:
The passion for experiences :Si: neglects consequences :Ni:. and on the opposite: being preoccupied with concequences prevent experience.
Id:
Being preoccupied with many possibilites at a particular moment inhibit the power of action at that particular moment.
Superego:
Ethics/behaviour/ guidance protecting interests of people do not coincide with the proposed rules/regulatoins/universality/relativity.
If there is a conflict within each block that means ther will be conflict within each quadra in the same way like there should be the conflict between the types of the same block.
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Colour theory:
Each colour can be loaded positively or negatively. I would assume that negatively loaded colours create colour black. For example, blue as representing Son - guidance could be positive or negative. Red as feeling and emotion can be positive and represent Mother or Love/Holly Spirit and negative as hate and cold blood. Green representing Father or Life/nature can be positive - directed to maintain life and negative as destroy life/nature. Negative “shades” will create black. Black can be considered IMO as submission to power, death, non-existence. The positive shades will create white colour which we can associate with Light and God. Light brings all colours to life. Which also means diversity.
Hypnotism.
Just want to clarify that hypnotism is when your ego/executive centre is not your anymore but taken either by hypnotist or Devil (exorcism). The hypnotist put people into hypnotic state by means of Superid block
(sleep/relaxation) can have access to your unconscious through Superid, he can inflict on you very real experiences like feeling hurt by the electricity shock or feeling argasm etc., or can make you want things you do not want to do it in real life (ID) like jump under the car (suicide not by your choice) or may be something different like stop smoking or may be even self -sacrifice through Superego block.
I would assume that in real life we have got Ego( strong or weak) and influences positive or negative from God and Devil which work through different blocks; Superego, Superid, Id.
Jacubovskaja about swastikas
Going back to swastikas. The realtionship of social request are called relations of Benefit on Sergei's site. For example, on the left swatika:
ENTJ is Benefactor to ESTP and ESTP is his Beneficiary. ENFP is Benefactor to ENTJ and ENTJ is a Beneficiary to ENFP. It goes only between extraverts or between introverts. Extraverts can not be benefactor or beneficiary to introvert and on the opposite.
ISFJ is benefactor to INFP. INFP benefactor to INTJ. INTJ is benefactor to ISTP and ISTP is Benefactor to ISFJ.
Thanks Good I've understood it at last.
Jacubovskaja writes that types in each swastika have got the relationships of duality, Benefit/social request, Superego and Conflict. The circles of progress (swastikas) have social and global meaning. Extravert and introvert - dual pair represent a powerful pair. They support each other. Extravert is directed to expand the power and introvert to consolidate the power. Therefore they work together towards movement forward and progress in society. It is possible when one power is directed to wards the centre and another power is placed at 90 degrees to it. Then it creates a circle movement or rather spiral movement.
The circle of progress (left swastika) includes the dual pairs which go first in quadras. The right swastika has got dual pairs which are placed as 3d and 4th in quadras. The right swastika deliveres info the left swastika.
Swastika represents 8 cosmic powers where 4 powers are directed to the centre and 4 others … of the centre.
Jacubovskaja believes that types of right swastika correct the work of the types of left swastika; bringing stability and a new perspective. That means there are powers which actively change the world and those who try to keep all what has been achieved so far. They play a role of resistance and conservatism.
However, she suggests, that it does not mean that left swastika creates and right swastika holds the positions, because the discoveries may have a purpose of either creating something new or directed to correct that new creation or even to conserve it.
She also says that this is a schema only. While in global sense it all may be true in each and every single case - it may not be applicable because socionics is only one of the factors influencing life of an individual but those factors are multiple.