Enneagram Tritypes: Do they exist?

There seems to be a lack of consensus on whether tritypes exist or not. The reasons for being against the existence of such seems to be that it seems ludicrous to think that one can have three very distinct motivations occurring simultaneously. However the reasons for the existence of tritypes is that we all have head, heart and gut issues, so it's natural to assume that people will have three different kinds of Enneagram. Evidence that could go against the existence of tritypes is the already growing complexity of having instinctual stackings plus subwings of one's main Enneagram type. However, evidence that could go for the existence of tritypes are tritype archetypes, which provide adequate descriptions of having the combination of three specific enneagram types regardless of their order. Enneagram archetype descriptions can be found here: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram...criptions.html. I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether you find tritypes to be useful and accurate or simply nonsense?

If I'm correct, tritypes are based on having one type for the gut, head and heart centers of the enneagram. You'll notice in anyones tritype that you can't have more than one type belonging to the same centre. i.e an "2w1, 3w4, 4w3" doesn't exist, they are all from the heart centre. You can't have three different heart energies, with no guts or brains :?. Tritypes explain a whole lot more than just your main type...which doesn't cover all the different aspects. They're worth looking in to.

I like this description, it would be better with wings. It's short and simple but I relate to it a ton!!

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Originally Posted by discojoe

1-4-7 : perfectionistic, whimsical and rather picky, these Ones tend to be quite expressive and passionate. They want things to be a certain way and tend to reject whatever doesn’t precisely fit their desires. However when they appreciate something (an idea, a person, an activity), this tritype can over-indulge in it in an excessive, obsessional manner. They’re not as self-disciplined as other Ones and they’re prone to giving in to their fantasies and desires more, believing they are somewhat special and deserve special treatment.
usual subtypes: sexual, self-preserving.
similar tritypes: 1-7-4, 4-1-7
flavours: fastidious, expressive, impatient and original

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Definitely.

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Originally Posted by Gilly

Definitely.

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Whats yours? if you don't mind, I know an EIE 3w4.

Why shouldn't there be a tritype? I mean, our motivations throughout life aren't always going to relate to that one dominant type. I mean, for one, think about all of the emotions we go through on a regular basis that can change our outlook on things, thus change how we are motivated to respond to those things. I don't know, I like the idea of the tritype - more to work with that way.


I am most likely 649, but my gut fix is kind of up in the air right now.

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649 The Seeker. Accepting and intuitive 6. This is the most emotional and accommodating 6. This 6 has the most self-doubt and uncertainty and often seeks multiple sources of confirmation before making a decision. This 6 is very sensitive, and can be mistaken for a 4 or 2.

The 649 ponders...thinks and rethinks. They are introspective like the 459...just more people oriented. Their shame is in making a mistake...they must get it right like the 461 but do not feel that they can easily say their opinion our loud due to a fear that they might make a mistake.

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:shifty:

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Originally Posted by Diam0nd

Whats yours? if you don't mind, I know an EIE 3w4.

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3w4-8w7-6w7 sx/so

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Originally Posted by Aerorobyn

Why shouldn't there be a tritype? I mean, our motivations throughout life aren't always going to relate to that one dominant type. I mean, for one, think about all of the emotions we go through on a regular basis that can change our outlook on things, thus change how we are motivated to respond to those things. I don't know, I like the idea of the tritype - more to work with that way.


I am most likely 649, but my gut fix is kind of up in the air right now.



:shifty:

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I think 649 (The Seeker) seems to fit me as well, but 614 (The Philosopher) is also possible.

The suggestion of multi-type theories are hated among majority of the typology community. The prevalent idea is that a person is one and only one type, which is inherent at birth. Tritype mildly threatens this idea hence why their is a bad reaction to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GMBYuZoTbo

Tritype has grown on me. I certainly like the idea, if for nothing else the delineation of variation within the same type. I don't know if it has much practical application aside from just decoration though, but I'm keeping my mind open to it. Attaching wings to each type seems a bit superfluous too.

I'm probably 649. The only other possibility is 648, but the more I read about it the less I connect. The more 649 descriptions I read the more embarrassed about myself I get, haha.

Sure, tritypes exist. More than wings do.

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Originally Posted by Galen

The more 649 descriptions I read the more embarrassed about myself I get, haha.

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Lol I find that's a good way of gauging enneagram type.

I think it leaves you with too many subtypes and can be thus be overly complicated, though I do relate to 4-6-8, the truth teller.

A preferred method of interaction and cognition along with innate unconscious drives and aversions, for each the head, image, and gut center? I don't see why this wouldn't make sense/"exist". It's just an extension of the main enneagram type, really.

My Methodology to Tritype and Wings and all that isn't to pick among a large sea of options, but first to choose a single type that fits best (surely not perfectly) then use all these extra subtype and multitype theories to add a more robust characterization of that type to help distinguish you from other people of the same type. It's too overwhelming if you have to choose among all possible tritypes,wings, and instinctual variants.

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Originally Posted by octo

Does anyone have any good links to tritype descriptions?

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The link I provided at the beginning was pretty good imo, it's right here: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram...criptions.html

Traveller thx 4 digging that up :thumbsup:, the extended description is so fucking true... bookmarked

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Originally Posted by Diam0nd

Traveller thx 4 digging that up :thumbsup:, the extended description is so fucking true... bookmarked

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You're welcome Diamond. :)

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Originally Posted by Ashton

Tritypes are fucking stupid. They are the DCNH of the Enneagram.

To put it in perspective: Basic Enneagram yields 18 possible types (or 108 w/ IV stacks). Adding Tritypes explodes that to 540 possible types (or 3,240 w/ IV stacks). That kind of particularization is absurd.

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What are your thoughts on the 27 tritype archetypes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritype#Archetypes

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Originally Posted by Ashton

Tritypes are fucking stupid. They are the DCNH of the Enneagram.

To put it in perspective: Basic Enneagram yields 18 possible types (or 108 w/ IV stacks). Adding Tritypes explodes that to 540 possible types (or 3,240 w/ IV stacks). That degree of particularization is absurd.

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You're wrong in my case. Yeah so what if there are a lot of possibilities, does that make tritypes less valid? The tritype has simplified things for me enneagram wise, whereas the dcnh doesn't make much sense to me at the end of the day.

Can someone explain to me how a binary-logic based system like the brain produces traits in multiples of 3, rather than powers of two?

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

Can someone explain to me how a binary-logic based system like the brain produces traits in multiples of 3, rather than powers of two?

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3's the magic number unless you're in a relationship

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rehgih
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fo sisab no
srehto naht erom
cimanyd lanoitcnuf
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hmm, I'm not sure what to think about with Enneagram Tritype.

I mean, with "vanilla" Enneagram, you've got your types which come with their base fears and desires. From which they have their particular goals, focus, stressors, challenges, and coping strategies with its blindspots and shortcomings. This is a working model, I would think, to think through to become more self-aware and gain a better understanding of other people. Now obviously people aligned with a certain type will have other concerns, worries, and behaviorism that aren't quite related to the type.

And... that's all that tritype seems to be about? I haven't look too too deep into it. But, all it seems to do is take the sorta general behaviorism of 3 types and kinda mesh them together to form this new thing that seems like it could make sense if you could blend the types together. To sorta kinda explain the variation. What seems to get lost in this mixing mess, however, is the core working mechanism of each type.

6-9-2

From the Enneagram Institute, 6s have the basic fear "of being without support and guidance." So... when that fear is alleviated they move onto the 9s basic fear? What about the desires? How do the coping strategies develop from this? Then there is still 2 to take into account...

It just doesn't seem to me to be a functional model to really "get" other people or for self-awareness. It just... seems to describe a certain behaviorism. And that's really it. No real regard to the foundation of the types it is tri-forcing together.

From what I glean, the nature of tritype goes as follows:


Each type is a manifestation of some particular fixation/neurosis within a specific center (heart, head, gut). These neuroses come in the form of either over-association (2/5/8 with their identity/cognitive abilities/instincts), nebulousness (3/6/9 with heart/head/gut), and rejection (4/7/1 you get the picture). The tritype theory then asks the question: if each person only has one type, made up of a distinct combination of these two trichotomies, then does that mean the other two centers have no primary fixation whatsoever? If we are to believe that all people have the capability to simultaneously possess an identity/feelings, cognitive abilities, and gut instincts, then why would only one of these three centers have a primary neurosis while the other two are fine? I don't see why this would be the case.

If we accept that people have all three capabilities, then it should be fair to say that these faculties are prioritized, much like how instinct stackings are prioritized one above another. So instead of sx>so>sp, one can be head>gut>heart, with the head fixation taking primary importance and flavors of the other two imparted onto the individual according to prioritization. Azeroffs made an extended blog about this here, but with each specific combination of types comes an inevitable compounding of two or more types upon one or more main trichotomy of three: Harmonics, Social Styles, and Object Relations (info on them here). For example if we look at a 468 tritype, all three of these types share the Reactive harmonic triad, and as such the 468/648/etc will be heavily flavored by the reactive triad. As another example, a 271 has both the secondary and tertiary centers as Rejection social styles. So even though the 2 itself is not in that triad, it will be colored by those secondary characteristics. And so on and so forth with any other combination out there.

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

Can someone explain to me how a binary-logic based system like the brain produces traits in multiples of 3, rather than powers of two?

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because binary logic presupposes a unity that can only be expressed via a trinity. hence the three centers of the enneagram, and thus the relevance of tritypes as composite pictures of human motivation.

it's pretty much intuitive, given that one's e-type only exists in relation to the rest.

You're all ignoring that the Enneagram is filled with bogus behavioural and spiritual prescriptions. It's a spiritual doctrine, you either accept, reject, or casually toy with it in a superficialised form.

Do tritypes exist? Define existence. Are they compatible with the conventional enneagram? Yes, but in order to fit in with the system they turn into prescriptions, which are wrong; failing that they turn into yet another Enneagram reinterpretation, by yet another group of people whose psychological literacy is severely questionable.

lol define existence.

it's a dynamic model of human fixations, with which the notion of tritypes happens to meld fluidly. sorry if that doesn't satisfy binary fetishes.

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Originally Posted by strrrng

because binary logic presupposes a unity that can only be expressed via a trinity. hence the three centers of the enneagram, and thus the relevance of tritypes as composite pictures of human motivation.

it's pretty much intuitive, given that one's e-type only exists in relation to the rest.

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The problem with that is that every third has a fourth.

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

The problem with that is that every third has a fourth.

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oh okay

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

The problem with that is that every third has a fourth.

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yeah, triangles lead to cubes. but what's the simplest shape formed by lines?

the 1-9 scale is objective finitude (...in the lord of the rings 'nine rings were gifted to the race of men'; the stages of terrestrial progression). within these parameters trinities are the most basic expression of unity.

as for the basis, two plus two is always four. the proof is in the recursion of forms. it's 'circular' b/c 0 contains it all.

and the enneagram just happens to be a wheel with nine types.

Personally I think its obvious that everyone has each of the centers, so it makes sense that there is a solution for each problem; it's how the brain works...I tend to think that they align with the instincts; for example I believe I am sx 3w4, so 8w7, sp 6w5.

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Originally Posted by Gilly

Personally I think its obvious that everyone has each of the centers, so it makes sense that there is a solution for each problem; it's how the brain works...I tend to think that they align with the instincts; for example I believe I am sx 3w4, so 8w7, sp 6w5.

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Are you attaching an instinct to each type, or are you ordering them in terms of overall priority?

386 would work for you I think. You do have a sort of reactive-triad flare about you, although that could be mimicked by being assertive-triad. Or both, or something.

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Originally Posted by Galen

Are you attaching an instinct to each type, or are you ordering them in terms of overall priority?

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Both.

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386 would work for you I think. You do have a sort of reactive-triad flare about you, although that could be mimicked by being assertive-triad. Or both, or something.

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Well 7w8/8w7 was actually my initial self-typing, 7 and 8 are the types with whose descriptions I identify most easily. It took a bit of work to realize exactly how I am a 3. I do identify with the motives of an 8; my mother happens to be an 8 and from what I've heard the children of 8s are frequently 8s as well.

IMO the whole concept of tritypes is both intuitively fitting and plays out well in real life, to the point of constructing very coherent archetypes as the author of the article referenced in this thread has fleshed out rather well IMO; not what I would call perfect but he has the right idea IMO. Personally I don't see it so much as a meshing of a types traits as an interweaving of the instincts that can be observed rather than dissected; its more about resulting energies than mixing and matching traits, just like the original idea of Enneagram typing.

Since we exist in "consensus reality" nothing can be said to exist on this level because everything is in a state of change. However, for the past 22 years, I have studied the Enneagram and always thought that something was missing. The Tritype system intuitively made sense to me the moment it was introduced. As a counterphobic Six 6w5, my Tritype of 483 describes the counterphobic part very well. The 8 is in your face when it feels threatened, and the 3 wants to prove itself in situations it accepts as a worthwhile challenge. Both of those tendencies apply to this counterphobic Six. Tonight our Enneagram discussion group will discuss the Tritype system as it applies to new people coming to the group. I am interested in other experiences on this topic. - Thanks and Peace - John

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Originally Posted by joh0369

Nothing can be said to exist on this level because everything is in a state of change.

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Well yes, everything is in a perpetual state of transformation, motion, and change but nothing simply surges up out of nothing without having antecedents that existed before. Nothing ever disappears without a trace, in the sense that it gives rise to absolutely nothing existing at later times, as long you're talking philosophy/physics.

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However, for the past 22 years, I have studied the Enneagram and always thought that something was missing. The Tritype system intuitively made sense to me the moment it was introduced. As a counterphobic Six 6w5, my Tritype of 483 describes the counterphobic part very well.

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You haven't studied it long enough. It doesn't make any sense or I misread something somewhere. For example, your main type is 6 as you claim and you, let's say, identify with 3 and 8 a bit - that means your tritype is 6-3-8. Not 6w5-3-8 or 4-8-3. But, like I said, I could misread stuff and blow it out of proportion, so watch out.

Tritypes are one of the few things (along with 2012 apocalypse and aliens-building-the-pyramids) that make me rage. If you really study the enneagram, it doesn't make sense. It's like, "Lets take my main type that fits me, and then add two other types that superficially fit me on a stereotypical/behavioral level". Most of the time, if you get someone to describe "why" their tritype fits them, what they list off for their other two types actually fit very well within the defense mechanisms of the main type.

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Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts

Tritypes are one of the few things (along with 2012 apocalypse and aliens-building-the-pyramids) that make me rage. If you really study the enneagram, it doesn't make sense. It's like, "Lets take my main type that fits me, and then add two other types that superficially fit me on a stereotypical/behavioral level". Most of the time, if you get someone to describe "why" their tritype fits them, what they list off for their other two types actually fit very well within the defense mechanisms of the main type.

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I don't mind tritypes, but imo Enneagram is a trinary system which means it's either got something extraneous or it's missing something.

You could look at Enneagram and see the vague shape of ego/super-ego/id where one of the pieces is simply unexplained(super id).

Imo, Enneagram is like this, its model serves in a way to describe how one is without giving a explanation for a part that is not very intrinsic to oneself, but where one desires from others.

Anyways given say my 3-5-8 enneagram tritype you could say 3, 5, 8 would be respectively my

Id = :Te: :Ni: 3
Ego = :Ne: :Ti: 5
Super-ego = :Se: :Fi: 8

All of which aren't that off the description. The super-id is a unconscious desire but it's not really something I produce for others or very adept at so the tritype would more or less explain my strong points as well as my weak points that I consciously control.

If you approach tritype from a Freudian perspective, it can make sense.

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Originally Posted by hkkmr

Anyways given say my 3-5-8 enneagram tritype you could say 3, 5, 8 would be respectively my

Id = :Te: :Ni: 3
Ego = :Ne: :Ti: 5
Super-ego = :Se: :Fi: 8

All of which aren't that off the description. The super-id is a unconscious desire but it's not really something I produce for others or very adept at so the tritype would more or less explain my strong points as well as my weak points that I consciously control.

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By that theory then, shouldn't all ILEs be 538? My Ego is :Ne: :Ti: and I'm a 7, not a 5. And then you might as well say all SEEs have 8 as a core type, and all LIEs 3, which is obviously not the case.

Enneagram is mean to predict motivation/reaction in a stressed environment. It's more helpful on a personal level so that you can figure out what you need to work on personally. It doesn't do the best job at predicting behavior. It isn't meant to help with relationships. It's very much a personal development tool. I think that's why it seems so "simplistic". People look at it wanting to know every facet of themselves and their relationships with others, and that's just not how it's meant to be used. People of the same type can present very similar and very different behaviors, so people look at them and think, "Wow, this obviously isn't accurate if I'm a 7 AND this guy here is a 7. We're so different!" and then feel the need to over-complicate things with subwings and tritypes and etc.

I also like to think tritypes were made more popular by the enneagram institute so they could make people pay to go to their workshops, but that's just me being cynical. ;)

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Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts

By that theory then, shouldn't all ILEs be 538? My Ego is :Ne: :Ti: and I'm a 7, not a 5. And then you might as well say all SEEs have 8 as a core type, and all LIEs 3, which is obviously not the case.

Enneagram is mean to predict motivation/reaction in a stressed environment. It's more helpful on a personal level so that you can figure out what you need to work on personally. It doesn't do the best job at predicting behavior. It isn't meant to help with relationships. It's very much a personal development tool. I think that's why it seems so "simplistic". People look at it wanting to know every facet of themselves and their relationships with others, and that's just not how it's meant to be used. People of the same type can present very similar and very different behaviors, so people look at them and think, "Wow, this obviously isn't accurate if I'm a 7 AND this guy here is a 7. We're so different!" and then feel the need to over-complicate things with subwings and tritypes and etc.

I also like to think tritypes were made more popular by the enneagram institute so they could make people pay to go to their workshops, but that's just me being cynical. ;)

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I don't think it works like imo and I think my tritype is 5-3-8. I only use 3-5-8 as that's the notation for the combination. I don't think all ILE's are 5's or all LIE's are 3s or all SEE are 8's, it's just one combination of traits that may work for a ILE. I think enneagram deals a lot more with coping mechanisms than information processing and there is a difference in the typologies there, but the structure may not really be super different with enneagram missing a piece. Anyways, this is just a way to think about it. May or may not be true.

I don't know what your tritype is or anything but it might fit the pattern. If it's like 7-3-8 or something it could fit you as well. Socionics actually does try to look at more facetsof the psyche, not just base function or ego functions, in a sense a sociotype really is a 8-type. As it describes 8 functions within model A.

I'm getting the general consensus that enneagram tritypes are strictly forbidden in these lands. Why?

they're not. opinion is mixed.

Actually, it seems like that other forum you frequent is obsessed with it, I don't even see them use MBTI types anymore.

@Ryan... yeah they do. I was curious why they're not the latest rage over here.

I think a lot of people here see tritype as just another excuse for someone to be bad at enneagram, in the same sense that DCNH is generally seen as a method only kooks who don't know what they're talking about use.

Also don't forget, Tritype is Copyright © 2003 David and Katherine Fauvre and is not to be discussed without their expressed written consent.

probably because they suck, duh

but they were quite popular here, years ago, from what i've heard

the old guard still practice it in secret

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Originally Posted by Galen

I think a lot of people here see tritype as just another excuse for someone to be bad at enneagram, in the same sense that DCNH is generally seen as a method only kooks who don't know what they're talking about use.

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er, speak for yourself?

whats dcnh?

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Originally Posted by glam

er, speak for yourself?

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I thought DCNH was mostly rejected on here? I don't see that many people talk about it seriously.

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Originally Posted by DJ Arendee

whats dcnh?

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a 4-subtype system devised by DarkAngelFireWolf69: Dominant, Creative, Normalizing, Harmonizing

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tegory/47-DCNH

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Originally Posted by Galen

I thought DCNH was mostly rejected on here? I don't see that many people talk about it seriously.

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yeah there's not a lot of DCNH discussion, and some people may have dismissed it, but i don't get the same impression that it's widely rejected as a crackpot's theory. i think some people may not be sure how to apply it, and/or they don't necessarily see the need to use it when compared to other subtype systems.

I used to be open to the idea that there are lots of subtypes, but I'm more convinced each person can be dominant in each of their functions at certain times in their lives depending on circumstances.

I like the DCHN system, but it really needs revision and or clarification. I am waiting for the DCHN version 2.0 before I really use it. It is a good idea, not ready for use. The idea is this: energy type and Socionic type are NOT identical. Thus not everybody behaves exactly like their type, as there are variations in the force they apply to each information element.

Basically, the idea is that a person could have an unusual amount of force projected into their Je Ji Pi Pe functions. If Je is given more energy, then Fe and Te are used with force. This is regardless of where Fe and Te are in their function order, thus distorting their type.

If Te is PoLR it is still "painful" for them to use it, but they do it just like people might go swimming in the winter. It hurts, but they do it.

The extra force is not an increase in the clarity of the information, although with the use of that IM, they should grow in competence.

This is one possible reason why people can be hard to type. I think it makes sense. It needs a revision to use better.


(Spelling corrected, as per K0rpsy's request.)

Since you said "irreguardless" your entire post is dismissed.

I like socionics and tritype. DCNH is iffy.

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Originally Posted by DJ Arendee

I'm getting the general consensus that enneagram tritypes are strictly forbidden in these lands. Why?

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It isnt forbidden, but it is one of the topics for crankiness :jedi:

Basically, I think a theory is only as useful as much as it helps you just get over yourself and move on.

"Tritype" seems to convolute that process by giving you a shiny star, a ribbon, and a scratch 'n' sniff sticker meant to make you feel special.

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Originally Posted by RedBeard

Basically, I think a theory is only as useful as much as it helps you just get over yourself and move on.

"Tritype" seems to convolute that process by giving you a shiny star, a ribbon, and a scratch 'n' sniff sticker meant to make you feel special.

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Yes. I very much agree.

Sure. 368 = FRED DURST tritype. That alone makes it more than worth it. Things like triple assertive, triple reactive, triple rejection, triple anything; the more I got in the arsenal to identify once a vague impression hits me, the better, and being able to feel out something more wide-range like a tritype combination with no at-the-time definite permutation makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than choosing between the polarities of either a glorified wild guess or absolutely fucking nothing at all.

Originally posted by Galen

I think a lot of people here see tritype as just another excuse for someone to be bad at enneagram, in the same sense that DCNH is generally seen as a method only kooks who don't know what they're talking about use.

Also don't forget, Tritype is Copyright © 2003 David and Katherine Fauvre and is not to be discussed without their expressed written consent.Also don't forget, Tritype is Copyright © 2003 David and Katherine Fauvre and is not to be discussed without their expressed written consent.[/QUOTE]

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Thank you for your concern... but this is not an accurate statement. No worries...It is my copyright and you can discuss it anyway you want. All that is required is that you state that is my work if you use it and post it. Free speech is important. The copyright is for intellectual property. So what you can't do is say it is your work and sell it using my name "Tritype." So, feel free to say anything at all, anything you desire. Really anything... I love all feedback and comments... I love criticisms as they are very helpful.

Or, if it feels better, you can say you have my written consent... ;) Katherine Chernick Fauvre

Test


http://devpersonalityadvantage.kaliaa.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/#/landing-page
Would love for you to try my beta version of the more complete Tritype Personality Advantage True Self Enneagram Tritype test. I know you will find the glitches!

While our core explains much of who we are and our motivations, human beings are very complicated. One type can explain a lot, but in my experience with ennea, people relate to multiple types to an extent, so tritype helps to tie that all together rather than just someone just being one type and the other options being out of the running period. The strength of the fixes ties it together even more so, the last fix being present but having the least influence. Some may be more balanced with their second and third fixes, or be balanced with their first two while the third is on the tailend of influence. Relating to multiple types from the different triads, the different parts of our tritype can work together to make up who we are, and type integration/disintegration goes even more into this.

I have heard it said that fixes don't integrate/disintegrate, but thinking about the possibility of that happening, that would explain even more. I believe The Wisdom of The Enneagram mentions that everyone has a little bit of all of the types within them somewhere in the intro. Having prime energies from the heart, the gut, and the head, and having a dominant fix for each would only make sense.