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Dominants Assertor (previous Aggressor)
Creatives Infantile,
Normalising Devotee (previous Victim)
Harmonising Caregivers
@End how do you feel about the INTp description above?
@Sol if you didn't understand what I meant by infantile (childlike).
Quote:
Victim
The Victim types, identified as such by Viktor DarkAngelFireWolf69, are the four types with Ni in their ego, two each in Beta and Gamma: EIE, IEI, LIE, and ILI.Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, and flirting, their Ni, coupled with their expectations of Se style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in a Victim's behavior.
Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style
- prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
- not always confident about revealing that interest
- inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
- inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
- preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
- appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
- this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
- inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself
This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.- See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/r....7D8fAigi.dpuf
Quote:
Infantile
The Infantile types, identified as such by Viktor DarkAngelFireWolf69, are the four types with Ne in their ego, two each in Alpha and Delta: ILE, LII, IEE, and EII. Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, and flirting, their Ne, coupled with their expectations of Si style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in determining "infantile'" behavior.
Typical characteristics of the Infantile romance style
- interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
- tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
- try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
- interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
- appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
- neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters
- See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/r....7D8fAigi.dpuf
"He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach.""
To care - yes, but not to teach. To teach means relations of generally unequals, while everyone seeks support in relations not less than has the wish to care about partner.
"Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable."
Ne types have Si in values so they never prefer to live "outside of sexuality". It's important part of their life. Especially for ILE, IEE.
another heretic poor article
This is accurate
interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters
@Aylen. In regards to the article I don't much fault it. For me it really is about finding someone who doesn't "break" or otherwise run the hell away once I disclose my darkest desires. I'm sure this is the case for girls as well, but it comes from the opposite direction. Lots of dudes talk a good game, but if a real girl legit begged them to tie em' up and do hardcore kinky shit to em' I'm pretty sure a lot of them would run away because she's "crazy" or something.
I mean fuck, life must suck for fully masochistic girls who also want decent, moral, and caring partners to lovingly dominate them and whisper how much they love them into their ear after a session of good hard love making. They're in dangerous territory to be honest. The people who are willing to give you what you want in this department can very easily just be taking advantage of you for their own benefit. Yet in the end they still want that and are willing to take the risk to get it. Being a "victim" type is complicated...
It's a shame that this article has been rated so poorly.
This theory is one of the most valuable ones in Socionics, imo.
Beside the rapey - aggressor/victim - and pedophilic - caregiver/infantile - notions (pointing to a patriarchal basis of this writing), the idea is good. I prefer what Zero11 said above to establish equal means and not misinterpreting the dynamics into an egotistical power exchange; that's not what actual romance is.
I think people have a mix of erotic attitudes. The purely this, this, this, or that, seems like a black and white way of thinking.
Someone's subtype influences how much they may lean to the other fellow dynamic or static type.
In that manner, all Aggressors have a Childlike side and vice versa, and all Victims have a Caretaker side and vice versa.
How much this "comes out" or is present in the person depends on the subtype.
(For example, SEE-Fi and SLE-Ti are a bit more Childlike, IEE-Fi and ILE-Ti are a bit more Aggressor, etc.)
Still, the main style mostly prevails, and at the very least becomes apparent on a closer basis.
Most people's romance style behaviour is unconscious, they do not act this way deliberately. Once you deliberately choose to act in a certain way, like acting more coy or aggressive because you get the impression the other person would like that more, you are not acting according to your natural romance style.
They exist as only some, not all, which means they cannot be relied upon as conclusive evidence. Types are theoretical categories that apply to some, but not all people. There is varying degrees of truth in it for different people, depending on its descriptive accuracy.
Yes ;3; Wonderfully put.
https://media.tenor.co/images/7bc965...3bb3860e1d/raw
This is a good example of a Victim attitude... lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ekZEVeXwekQuote:
Into You - Ariana Grande
Oh, baby, look what you started
The temperature's rising in here
Is this gonna happen?
Been waiting and waiting for you to make a move
(woo, oh, oh, oh)
Before I make a move
(woo, oh, oh, oh)
[Chorus:]
So, baby, come light me up, and maybe I'll let you on it
A little bit dangerous, but, baby, that's how I want it
A little less conversation and a little more "touch my body"
'Cause I'm so into you, into you, into you
And I'd suppose the "a little less conversation" line from the Elvis' song is more Se:
Quote:
"A Little Less Conversation"
A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby
Come on baby I'm tired of talking
Grab your coat and let's start walking
Come on, come on
Come on, come on
Come on, come on
Don't procrastinate, don't articulate
Girl it's getting late, gettin' upset waitin' around
None of the styles fit me, so I can't take this seriously. I find that Enneagram plays a much bigger part than IMs.
"Teachers: LSE (ESTj) SLI (ISTp)
If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension.He is looking for a worthy pupil."
Now THAT makes sense and explains a lot.
Like why my best friends are childlike types, or why it always seems like I've to "teach" stuff to my friends or my IEE, and why even being a caregiver I'm not "motherly" at all or even why I hate being a student. I'm actually a Teacher, which makes more sense. I really love sharing knowledge instead of "taking care" of others.
In my case it's a mix of suposed opposites:
Bolded parts fits to a T the rest is really off.Quote:
Typical characteristics of the Aggressor romance style
- no doubts about own interest in another person
- not prone to hesitation about whether or not to reveal that interest
- focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
- romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
- needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
- this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
- in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total * devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
- little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously
This romance style is defined by focus on Se which is static, irrational, and extroverted. This means that an Aggressor sees attraction to another person as a static state, which he feels it is up to him to change in the direction more in agreement to his preference. This accounts for an Aggressor's inclination to take the initiative in approaching the object of his interest and being "relentless" in his pursuit, as well as, even during an established relationship, continuing to try to "shake things up" or "get things moving". If his partner is not receptive to such behavior, this discourages the Aggressor, and results in his interest cooling off.
Bolded parts are spot on and would complement the ones in the Aggressor type.Quote:
Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style
- prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
- not always confident about revealing that interest
- inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
- inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
- preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
- appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
- this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
- inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself
This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.
Ohooohoo I find that interesting and like it :oops: It works out best when the Ne type has some enneagram 6/9 influence so they would accept the guidance. E1 EII and E7 IEE are more difficult here.
Delta is about knowledge exchange anyway so the true dynamic of Si/Ne is rooted in Alpha. Taking care is cool when it comes from a cognitive perspective since what you think, you become. If someone doesn't pamper me but explains how I can take care of myself, I find that far more useful and rewarding for both. If I'm just being taken care of, how exploitative is that. It makes more sense to have no inferior Ne - superior Si perspective on this.
Your case is super difficult :shock: 8 SX naturally assumes those qualities so it's hard to distinguish. The question is, what's the information that you accept more: force or time estimation? Enneagram is all about the innate drive but the styles here actually describe what type of IE use is supposed to turn you the fuck on :lol: If you're EIE you might overestimate the Se part within the equation, if you're Se base then your attraction to :Ni: would actually be obvious here.
I do not like to cook. Sure, I can cook a meal here and there, but to plan a meal each and every day and spend the time cooking those meals make me bitterly depressed. Food should materialize out of thin air. Food should be magical. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
Ok, I try to piece everything together.
Accept yes, in that way - but also search for. Socionics: information > behavior.
What turns you on is :Ni: rather than :Se: since you provide it yourself, you just wrote something about chasing elsewhere :biggrin: You have a thing for :Ti: as well.
I don't think I need to elaborate rather than add to it. What do you mean you think I mean? Lmao :D
The aggressor style is yours, now it's the question how you're either pseudo- Gamma or full on Beta. E8 is dominance and power quest, that aligns.
WellI don't need to be told about strength/willpower estimation or how to do something, I'm the one providing this answers to others.
About time estimation, I have issues with it in my own life, I'm very impulsive in general, but also can be too fearful when it comes to relationships, so sometimes the right moment seems to slip through my fingers. But weirdly it seem like this blockage is nonexistent when it pertains to things outside of me, I can estimate/predict events and people's moves well if the issue doesn't revolve around me specifically. If I'm out of the picture or am not the focus, I'm confident I know what's coming and I'm nearly always right, but make me the central character an dit all falls apart :hide:
Like an EIE might overestimate their assertiveness or initiative.
What's a Pseudo-Gamma and can someone be half a Beta? :confused2:
All indicators of SEE!
Pseudo-victim SFs are Gamma, they are not exactly the 100% conquest type and can await some clues from their NT Pseudo-Aggressors. The descriptions are a little fucked up but let's see, this could help:
Quote:
Conquerors: SLE (ESTp) LSI (ISTj)
These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without “breaking.”
Challengers/Trophies: EIE (ENFj) IEI (INFp)These are the types who unconsciously throw a “gauntlet” down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are “challenging.”
They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not “break” as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the “prize” that will be given only to the rightful owner.
Half a Beta!! :D Well, that's like quasi-identity. I'm half Beta in a sense of being a "shadow EIE".Quote:
Psuedo-Aggressors/Employees: LIE (ENTj) ILI (INTp)These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word “victim” - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without “breaking” so to speak.
Aggressors/Employers: SEE (ESFp) ESI (ISFj)
These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the “psuedo-aggressor” type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.
Concerning how I would sort you among these, either Challenger or Employer. You don't possess the relentless systematic force of the Beta STs and the quirks of the Gamma NTs.
That's 95% correct :yup:Quote:
Conquerors: SLE (ESTp) LSI (ISTj)
These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without “breaking.”
Challengers/Trophies: EIE (ENFj) IEI (INFp)These are the types who unconsciously throw a “gauntlet” down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are “challenging.”
They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not “break” as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the “prize” that will be given only to the rightful owner.
That sounds a lot alike the SLE/LSI example except that these types seem to see relationships are some sort of war or struggle, hence the "opponent" thing. I can definitely see this in ILIs (I know no LIEs), they resist relationships at first almost always, and tend to test the other person a lot before finally allowing themselves to be loved :flame:Most of them are the epitome of SP/SX too. Which is why I've always knew even before knowing anything about personality theory that I had zero interest or tolerance for this kind of people, especially males. I ain't knocking on nobody's door when they're prickly asses. Let them agonize over how ugly society and the world is to their hearts content with people who actually like their tsundere impressions, I want no part in that :8*Quote:
Psuedo-Aggressors/Employees: LIE (ENTj) ILI (INTp)These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word “victim” - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without “breaking” so to speak.
Aggressors/Employers: SEE (ESFp) ESI (ISFj)
These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the “psuedo-aggressor” type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.
That makes no sense to me, you're either part of a quadra or you're not, you can't be belong to two houses at once :merky:
Perhaps, like I've said so many times before, I find the whole notion of wanting to predict romantic and sexual compatibility between humans using either Socionics or MBTI theories hilarious. Enneagram yes, the pairs work 100% as they "should" based on not only myself but relationships I've observed throughout the years.
Hm... in that case we would come full circle, the first impression I wrote to you was SLE. Super-Ego for the two of us, why not. I'm still not seeing logical > ethical, do you have an opinion? You could still be SEE without liking your duals but hm, I see you have tested that out already :thinking: Your preference of Beta NFs speaks the same language obviously. Yeah, SP/SX is not who matches you :thumbsup: A social stacking is more like it, you won't find these among ILIs except a few contraflow ones. It's just weird that you dislike Ni long-term resistance? That's Se paradise!
Sure you can, in a Ti PoLR word where Te hard facts rule :biggrin: That's why typing is so hard in the first place, seeing what's valued/strong and unvalued/strong. Your anti-compatibility notion could be against Fi itself but I need to continue observing this particular aspect. How does enneagram have pairs?
I don't accept "facts" that make no sense according to my observations :mad: I agree 200% with the bolded, though. I have nothing against Fi at all, since mine is good enough to make accept SEEs typings when I was being too impatient to deeply explore how it differed from Fe. I mean I LOVE SEEs and some ESIs. My experiences with Iees and EEIs are really mixed, though. My issue is when Fi causes people to either 1) lose their objectivity 2) project their feelings onto others or the worst offense, 3) try to moralize me.
According to research, it was found that there was a pattern in terms of marriages and their respective success following the couple's Enneagram types. Same types union are really rare except for types 4, for example. This page has a perfectly accurate chart according to my experience:http://www.similarminds.com/idealtypes.html
This one has very detailed analysis of every combination possible:
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/t...-combinations/
I'd stay away from any article advocating for gender differences in picks and compatibilities, it really has no basis in reality by my own observations and my personal relationships.
That made me giggle :P Now that's interesting, Imma keep that in mind. My idea would be not going off romantic styles here, open a new thread for your typing again. You regretted closing your old one, why not give it a fresh start! Did you see HotelAmbush's new questionnaire? That would be the one.
Thanks! Also on my mental list.
You are talking to a radical feminist, "gender" makes me burst out into evil laughter ;)
Maybe I'll open one up later but I doubt it, seems absolutely unecessary. Indeed if you were bent on typing me by my Socionics ideal mate I'd be ILE since my two most successful relationships were with SEI-Si :rofl: "Fun"fact: I did answer that questionnaire during our friendship "break" but before I hit the post button to open the thread my computer restarted and I lost it all :poo:
It's pretty clear what's going on here: me torn between what is and what is desired i.e. who I am vs who I think I'd like to be , and your :Ti: PoLR shining very brightly through you "quest":
I mentioned this ages ago remember, how you always want everything to line up with the theory and fit perfectly with it even after your very clear admission that some parts of it are either pure bullshit or lacking a lot. It drives you crazy when you see any "contradiction". It also seems that at different times you decide I'm a certain type and then no matter how much I disagree with the material about it you post, the conversation keeps coming back to it. Right now you've decided I'm a Gamma and :Se: therefore SEE, even though I can't relate to their :Fi: at all and can't stand my supposed dual. And I clearly can't let go of the notion I'm good in areas I'm not because idealized self =/= actual self hurts my pride and what I see=/= what others see indicates I'm not nearly as self aware as I'd like to be.Quote:
The ENFp loses interest in any subject, when only his curiosity is even superficially satisfied. And to excite this interest or somehow to deepen it it is already impossible: this theme, in opinion ENFp, is studied by him also it already enough is not going to come back to him as on light is so a lot of new and not studied. (ENFp very much are afraid to miss any new opportunities. Therefore do not dare "to jam" that for them already " the passed stage ".)
Unique way to keep interest ENFp this all time "to warm up" his curiosity: to fire up imagination, to intrigue, encourage, constantly to hold back something. In a word, " to hold on a hook " (that, actually, and does his dual ISTp).
ENFp is very inconsistent in the acts and reasonings. And personally he does not consider it as fault? To him so it is convenient, therefore he and acts, but to him it is inconvenient, when so others act, ENFp it is difficult, sometimes it is impossible to collect the thoughts. His attention is constant rassredotachivaetsja. Listening to explanations, easily seizes the general, frequently only superficial sense. Sometimes at ENFp there is an insuperable interest to the analysis of insignificant particulars (and these particulars seem to him supersignificant and necessary for deep and momentary understanding of an essence). Owing to which he withdraws an explanation aside, and sometimes in general breaks it, asking untimely or inappropriate questions and thus persistently demanding the answer to them. And statement of a question sometimes happens so absurd and ridiculous, that explaining at all always knows, how to it to react.
We're quite a pair, huh? :lol:
Summa summarum abracadabra: type as you like now.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...e1313a7178.gif
Self-awareness comes with time. Buddha said, defining yourself is like biting your own teeth :shrug: Sure :lol:
@Chae
Buddha knew his shit.
http://i.imgur.com/NWlq6Q3.gif
Yeah, well there is an obvious component of "caregiving", but I think that some people misinterpret the caregiver part. I prefer sharing knowledge and having fun...thats why I enjoy IEE and their childish inner being, they rise my cute secret feelings and my protective/caring side that otherwise remain hidden by my passionless,detached, bored and coldblooded/serious side. They switch my mood completely. And the "teaching" part I think its about sharing life experiences/knowledge or showing a good path on life more than the typical picture of "teacher/student".
The problem here is that I know my style and it's not the one that matches my type! I'm a textbook Pseudo-Aggressor, but I think I'm actually SLE.
Those ones are a bit general and not that accurate, what do you make of the ones here?
If it weren't for the dual-seeking line at the end I don't think many wouldn't even guess that's an aggressor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Boukalov
I think SLIs tend to put that teaching part aside if it serves no good. Can't say that it applies to LSEs (although that's benefit relation for me which includes that already).