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This has been my experience too. :thumbsup: The ESE's I've known have been on time ALWAYS. For work, for whatever events they were needed at... always. My one ESE friend gets pretty irritated by my chronic lateness but is quick to forgive me. :lol: :love: I really need to work on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow82
ESEs hate lawyers
SEEs love lawyers
I know ESEs who are frequently late. I wouldn't type someone based on something like whether they are usually early or late. Too individual, IMO.
Well I wasn't typing based on that. . . I was typing based on the fact that she said that her "ESE" mother didn't like her EII sister. . . that's really weird. I have never known an ESE that dislikes EII's. . . close relationship or distant. I have known EIE's that have disliked EII's. . .Quote:
I know ESEs who are frequently late. I wouldn't type someone based on something like whether they are usually early or late. Too individual, IMO.
And I was just pointing out that the general opinion of everyone saying that ESE's being late to things was generally false. I've never known an ESE to be late for anything unless they have a very very good excuse.
I would think that our sensing-feeling function would never let us consider being late for anything. . . it would be an insult to those that invited us.
It might work that way for you, but that doesn't mean it works that way for all ESEs.
The people I know who are the most hyper about being late are my EIE and LIE parents, and the habitually late people who annoy them most in their lateness are my ESE and SEI I laws.
You know, I had my brother typed as an ESE for a very very long time because EIE's are EXTREMELY similar to ESE's. . .Quote:
It might work that way for you, but that doesn't mean it works that way for all ESEs.
The people I know who are the most hyper about being late are my EIE and LIE parents, and the habitually late people who annoy them most in their lateness are my ESE and SEI I laws.
While some ESE's that have been taught that it is ok to be late might be late constantly to events, what I am pointing out is that I would think that the general tendency of the type would be early or on time to an event.
The only times I have ever been late to anything (when I didn't have a good excuse) is when I had an extreme dislike for the people that I was to hang out with. . . then I would do my best to get out of the event if at all possible, in the nicest way possible and if not possible, I will be as late as possible and leave as early as possible.
Perhaps your in laws don't like your parents?
They're late for almost everything, involving everyone. I think they misjudge how long things will take and end up running behind.
I suppose it's possible. . . those of us who haven't worked on our tendency to get too "caught up in the moment" could definitely have that problem. But generally, ESE's will find that people consider that rude and take great efforts to change. . . I guess no one's confronted them on the topic? Maybe you should say something. . .Quote:
They're late for almost everything, involving everyone. I think they misjudge how long things will take and end up running behind.
They know how my parents think but they think my parents need to relax about it. The truth is probably somewhere between them. My parents are too rigid about it, but my inlaws should get better about it too.
So they aren't huge fans of your parents. Dum dum dum dummmm. . . the truth comes out. ;)Quote:
They know how my parents think but they think my parents need to relax about it. The truth is probably somewhere between them. My parents are too rigid about it, but my inlaws should get better about it too.
You or their son should probably confront them about it if it bothers y'all. Be careful not to step on any toes however. . . we're sensitive. :yup:
You know, I just realized something. . . (ESE - "SEI" In laws)
That combination is dangerous. If I ever were to marry an SEI I'd prolly get lazy too, and simply not care. ;)
SEI's are awesome. But the fact that I'd probably become too lazy under their influence would probably bug me too much to marry one. I'd be too happy. :p
Note: Your EIE parent and your SEI in-law.
SEI's don't take EIE advice usually. :P
One thing I've noticed. ;)
IMO ESE is 10 times more manipulative than SEE, who can't leave people alone.
It doesn't bother me. It bothers my parents. And they're late to things when my parents aren't involved at all. It isn't about my parents. They're just relaxed about when they get places and when they leave places.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow82
yellow82, be careful, i noticed that you tend to sort of jump to incorrect conclusions based on things that have been said. You did this with what I said, as well as with slacker's posts above.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow82
I never said my mom "didn't like" my sister. On the contrary, she loves us both very very much, which is perhaps part of the problem. There has been some friction lately between them, but this may be because my sister lived WITH my mom in the same apartment, up until just a year or two ago. I was a bit surprised at my sister's lack of drive to be more independent, but i think it was there the whole time, just took some time to bubble up to the surface. And being Se-POLR, my sister's acting out isn't the most elegant way to do it. I dont see how it couldn't be an illusionary pairing that just got to a point where the laziness started getting on each others' nerves. They did use to get along really really well with less arguments than I gave my mom.
Anyway, to get back to my original point, i think it's BECAUSE my mom loves me and my sister so much that my mom gets hurt and offended when her calls aren't returned or when the phone isn't picked up, etc etc.
Most ESE's I've met are chronically and fashionably late, SEI's not as much and they can be very punctual.
If I need a ESE to be on time, I wouldn't schedule something for that time or meet at a certain time, but instead I would just tell them they should leave right now and meet me at a certain place. It's very important for them to not get the idea that there is some time between now and when they need to leave or go somewhere. Even then it should be 10-15 minutes ahead.
ESE's that are on time usually have their time management/transport/schedule being arranged by someone else or a set non-negotiable schedule.
My EIE mom and my ESE friend deal with this situation in totally different manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
ESE is like, "If I call you, it's important so at least send a txt or message back to let me know you got the call. This is just common courtesy."
EIE is like, "If I call you, and you don't call me back, I'm going to be hurt and offended. Please call me back." Cue guilt trip express. This seriously ticks me off when people do this, so it's basically the worst possible way to get me to ever return a call or even acknowledge it. I will only answer calls that I see as important, necessary or fun, not out of a sense of guilt or offense.
One is more aggressive and demanding, the other more victim-like and hurt and I respond to one form of behavior vs the other.
Ok. Btw, I'm sorry if I came across as rude at all. I had no intention of stepping on anyone's toes here. . .Quote:
It doesn't bother me. It bothers my parents. And they're late to things when my parents aren't involved at all. It isn't about my parents. They're just relaxed about when they get places and when they leave places.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to jump to any conclusions. . . and I should have been more specific in my wording and put some thought into what I said before I spoke. . .Quote:
yellow82, be careful, i noticed that you tend to sort of jump to incorrect conclusions based on things that have been said. You did this with what I said, as well as with slacker's posts above.
I never said my mom "didn't like" my sister. On the contrary, she loves us both very very much, which is perhaps part of the problem. There has been some friction lately between them, but this may be because my sister lived WITH my mom in the same apartment, up until just a year or two ago. I was a bit surprised at my sister's lack of drive to be more independent, but i think it was there the whole time, just took some time to bubble up to the surface. And being Se-POLR, my sister's acting out isn't the most elegant way to do it. I dont see how it couldn't be an illusionary pairing that just got to a point where the laziness started getting on each others' nerves. They did use to get along really really well with less arguments than I gave my mom.
Anyway, to get back to my original point, i think it's BECAUSE my mom loves me and my sister so much that my mom gets hurt and offended when her calls aren't returned or when the phone isn't picked up, etc etc.
Specifically I meant that I was surprised that your ESE mom and your IEE sister are having a rocky relationship at all. . . I've never seen an ESE and IEE have a rocky relationship so it's new to me. But I guess it's possible. . . I don't know everything after-all. I am still young and have much to learn.
I am sure your mother loves you. I am very sorry, I should have put more thought into what I was saying. . .
I don't mind you speaking a few words. I was just expressing opinion about a socionic type, like you are expressing your opinions about how bad SEEs are and how great ESE are. and I am not speaking specific about you, but a more general opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow82
Yeah, I just realized that after I had posted it. . . I tried to delete it before you would see it, but, such is life. :PQuote:
I don't mind you speaking a few words. I was just expressing opinion about a socionic type, like you are expressing your opinions about how bad SEEs are and how great ESE are. and I am not speaking specific about you, but a more general opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
That's an interesting distinction. I'm not sure which one of those my mom would be tbh. She doesn't actually SAY she's hurt and offended, but when she complains to me about my sister's phone being turned off all the time, it sure sounds like it, more so in the sense that she feels like my sister is "distancing" herself or being rude that way which seems more consistent with what u said above about the ESE reaction.
Also, if she'll call a few times and i'm in the middle of things and dont get a chance to call her until later, she's fine with it and she doesn't seem hurt/offended at all by that (it's more ME who gets annoyed by the 5 missed calls on my phone in the span of like 40 minutes, which makes me feel like there's some emergency going on, only to find out when i call that she just wanted to say "hi" :rolleyes:) . Unless of course i dont call until like midnight and she's been worried sick that something bad may have happened. Then she'll give me an earful. But it's not because her feelings were hurt that i didn't call.
On the other hand, she does sort of guilt me into calling every night because she'll "stay up all night worrying and crying from the worry". But she sort of makes it about her worrying about me, as opposed to anything self-centered.
Oh, yea, ESE calls once and leaves a single message, EIE calls 3-5 times and leaves 4 messages. One of the things all Beta types that have gotten close to me have done is the whole power calling thing. I am good about calling back for important things, but if people constantly call me just to say Hi, I tend to get annoyed. This is something I almost never do to others, which is contact them just to say Hi/etc. I rather hangout or do dinner or something more concrete. I try to make time in my schedule for people in my life to do fun stuff, but not to waste time talking.Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
yeah it's funny cause my mom lately has been on our case (mine and my sister's) to get us to call each other "to say hi" more often than we do because she's so scared that since we aren't that into phone calls that must mean we're not close. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
My sister and I though feel VERY close to each other and have never felt that it's necessary to make all these phone calls to feel that way.
OK i guess that clinches it, my mom must be EIE! :p
I think one of the misconceptions about ESE is that they're "soft" or somehow very cuddly or some sort of stereotype like this.
These are not soft people, they might say they're soft esp if they're a girl, but these are hard, loud and often dominating people. They may be nice and friendly, but this isn't the same as soft. ESE/EIE place a lot of emotional pressure on people, good and bad, and this is their primary means of interacting with others. They will easily raise their voice at you or yell at you for whatever reason. Did I mention that they're LOUD? THEY ARE LOUD.
SEI/SEE/ESI/EII/IEE/IEI are much "softer" in contrast althrough there are other areas where they can be stubborn.
SEE girls I've found tend to talk in softer tones, with a lot of feeling.
I think this is a good example of how a SEE sounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IHtVmIOVL0
Dominant ESEs can be hard and loud like that, likewise Creative ESEs to a somewhat lesser extent. Normalizing and especially Harmonizing ESEs are closer to the "soft and cuddly" stereotype.Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
Dominant ESEs often have a way of "smothering people with kindness". The force of their friendly, positive emotions just kind of overwhelms people into compliance. Harmonizing ESEs, on the other hand, tend to try to modify their own behaviour to fit the needs of the people around them, resulting in a more soft, gentle approach -- they try to persuade rather than overwhelm.
I think Harmonizing ESEs are probably the softest of their type, but even then, they can be a bit overwhelming. I want to note that the Si-subtype of ESE which somewhat correlates with Harmonizing, may be softer from a emotional standpoint, but they're very aggressive physically. These are grabby physical people and this is not necessarily always soft and tender attention although not usually rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krig the Viking
I wouldn't say my mom is loud at all, she's actually rather soft i would say. Maybe not as soft as me or my sis, but definitely not loud like some other people i know :eek:. She actually doesn't like people or situations that are loud and raucous either.Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
She does talk a lot, though, almost as if silence needs and has to be filled. It gets very tiring when we need to be around each other for more than a few days, because her talking usually requires some sort of response, or at least i've been conditioned to pay attention to everything she says.
that said, a couple people i've identified in the past as EIEs aren't loud at all. They're actually sort of mysterious in a way, sort of living life like actors acting. Very controlled with their emotions. I feel like SLEs and ILEs are the freaking LOUD people. ESEs and EIEs can be loud, but only when they want to be. And on the flip side, this one girl that is a likely SEE per the info in this thread is someone i'd consider uncomfortably loud. I'm not sure how generalizable "loudness" is as a characteristic.
I think EIE are not always going to be as loud as ESE's, and you don't have to like other people or loud situations to be personally loud. My mom doesn't like noise or loud things either, but she's personally very loud but I wouldn't say very raucous.Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
I've met a EIE who is very quiet most of the time but will all of a sudden say something really loud for attention. As far as the logical types I didn't really comment on those, I just find that most Fe leading types I've met have had this memorable characteristic where they are loud. Of course you could have a mute Fe leading type or a Fe leading type that just has a quiet voice because of some reason, but they will still know a way to get your attention.
Both ESE and EIE are controlled in their emotions, and I think the ESE is more forceful in it as well, they also have Se as a strong function vs a weak one.
I definitely find SEE's more uncomfortably loud because they are loud in what I see as a uncontrolled fashion. I can handle SLE or ESE being really loud most of the time, but when a SEE gets loud, it tends to turn me off.
This is connecting a lot of dots for me. Thanks :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
Agreed. ESEs are still Extraverts after all, with Demonstrative Se. The "softest and gentlest" ESE is still more outgoing and physical than most other types.Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
As for Si-subtype correlating with Harmonizing, I've found that it actually depends on whose descriptions you're using. DarkAngelFireWolf69's descriptions match pretty well (he just describes the two Ego-based variants, in this case D-ESE and H-ESE), but Meged and Ovcharov's descriptions are a little more garbled and hard to sort out.
Based on my ESE grandma and SEE sister ONLY (so, they may or may not be representative of their types).
Both the ESE and the SEE care about "first impressions," having a nice-looking home when guests come. But, the ESE will continue making an effort to keep everything tidy and clean as the guests hang around, while the SEE will relax once everyone seems to be settled in, and stop worrying so much about dirt and clutter.
Hmm,
Relative to the ESFp,
The ESFj is much more likely to be enthusiastic about inviting everyone and taking the charge/initiative to organize events when it comes to big group outings. They thrive on logistics, so in this group regard, they take on a stronger leadership role.
They also seem to be much more concerned about people's issues and will take steps to compromise/resolve them (ESFps seem a lot more standoffish in this regard); I've noticed that my two ESFj friends constantly ask me, "Hey, what's wrong? Are you okay?" Sometimes they give me the impression of always trying to help me when I don't really need their help -they really do give off a more caregiver-ish/motherly vibe (Yes, even the males) compared to the ESFp
Finally, when ESFjs are pissed, you'll know, lol. With ESFps, its a lot less extreme. (Well, to me at least)
I know this is a really big stretch here, but just give me your impressions: Out of the SEE or ESE, which would be more likely to have these types of interests/demeanor?
TV Shows
True Blood, Jersey Shore, Dexter, Sex & the City
Movies
Kill Bill, Top Hat, The Goonies, Now & Then
Music
Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Kings of Leon, Adele, Drake
Other stuff:
Very into popular culture, 'dreams' of being famous a lot, is taking media studies for university, loves fashion, simple and clean style with still a bit of glamor to it. Christian Louboutin and other designer clothing/shoes are important to this person.
Twitters a lot, but very into privacy -- you can't view anything on her Facebook, Twitter, etc, without befriending her.
Has a large group of friends, quite chatty and a motor mouth of sorts.
Smiles VERY WIDE, TEETH OPEN in every single picture of her... ever. Works at a bank.
Seems quite intelligent and writes quite long messages, which seems uncharacteristic of SEEs I know -- (not the intelligence part but the long messages)... seems to be monologue-like. Proper spelling, grammar, etc. SEEs I know are much more haphazard with that sort of stuff.
Has had a long term boyfriend for 4 years. Umm... I know this is all random information, but what do you think?
ETA:
Just saw her tumblr, and it is filled with fashion picture after picture.. *gags*. Ain't into it. Is obsessed with various celebrities like the Kardashians, Taylor Lautner, and models.
I honestly think she's quite shallow, but eh.
Never watched any of these so I wouldn't know. . .Quote:
TV Shows
True Blood, Jersey Shore, Dexter, Sex & the City
Movies
Kill Bill, Top Hat, The Goonies, Now & Then
LOVE Rihanna! :love: DISLIKE Lady Gaga, Drake is annoying and I have no idea who Kings of Leon are. . .Quote:
Music
Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Kings of Leon, Adele, Drake
SEE --^Quote:
Other stuff:
Very into popular culture, 'dreams' of being famous a lot, is taking media studies for university, loves fashion, simple and clean style with still a bit of glamor to it. Christian Louboutin and other designer clothing/shoes are important to this person.
Ummm. . . neither?Quote:
Twitters a lot, but very into privacy -- you can't view anything on her Facebook, Twitter, etc, without befriending her.
Either or.Quote:
Has a large group of friends, quite chatty and a motor mouth of sorts.Smiles VERY WIDE, TEETH OPEN in every single picture of her... ever. Works at a bank.
Hmmmm. . . I will write long messages depending on who I'm talking to and what I'm talking about. . . all of those qualities could be either or, or even another type. Hard to say. . .Quote:
Seems quite intelligent and writes quite long messages, which seems uncharacteristic of SEEs I know -- (not the intelligence part but the long messages)... seems to be monologue-like. Proper spelling, grammar, etc. SEEs I know are much more haphazard with that sort of stuff.
That sounds more like an ESE, although SEE's can be just as loyal. I guess it depends on who we're with. :)Quote:
Has had a long term boyfriend for 4 years. Umm... I know this is all random information, but what do you think?
And hope this helped some. . . ESE opinion for I guess both the ESE and SEE? Where are the SEE's on this forum? :P
ESEs are extremely concerned about how they are coming off to others and keeping a good reputation.
SEEs are similar but many of them adapt an "I dont care" kind of persona.
yeah I've noticed that with my ESE's friends and even more so with my dads ESE friend from Ghana (I could literally hear his voice on the phone a whole room over :lol:); they can get pretty loud when they're excited about something or in group conversationsQuote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
They still come across as "softer" than SEE's, it's just not a quiet softness, it's more about the intentions in their demeanor.
The Liz Taylor video is good example of of SEE, she has this coercion in her mannerisms and speech that enabled her to dominate the atmosphere, whereas I see ESE's caring less about presenting themselves as bold and direct, it's still there, but in the background not pressing in the same way, they have a more gentle directness if that makes any sense
ESE on social media: "Look at me cuddling with all my cute puppies! :love::love::love:"
SEE on social media: "Guess who's going to be the one raking in 6-figures suckas! :hello: :agent::muaha: