Your typing of forum members (archived '11-'14)

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Eliza, you have failed to read a post addressing this by the very person you brought into the thread... I shall copy paste his info below... no source was cited so you may need to check for that...

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Oh sorry. I have been heading to bed for 3 hours! This is so out of hand. Oh and I don't need citations, that's okay. Sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

"The main distinguishing trait of Positivist and Negativist types is the preference for comparison (Positivists) or contrast (Negativists). Positivist types are more inclined to spot similarities and draw analogies ("they are so alike", "y is just like x" etc.), while Negativist are inclined to instead look at contrasts or alternatives ("they are nothing alike!"). Figuratively speaking, if Positivists are shown the front side then they will be looking at the front side, while Negativists will try to look at its inverse. If this inverse is not readily apparent, they will start searching for it. Thus Negativists do not seek to present a "negative" or "pessimistic" view of things, but simply the inverse or the alternative one. It is precisely due to such mental preference that a Negativist type such as ILI voices pessimistic predictions upon hearing optimistic forecasts. From a Negativist's point of view, he or she is not being a downer, but rather restoring the balance by pointing out the opposite. Since Negativist types are inclined to look for the inverse, if they are presented with pessimistic information they start searching for its alternatives, for what is absent and not there, such as a more optimistic interpretation. If the same ILI is told that everything is bleak, he or she will proceed to look for evidence that the situation is really not as bleak as it could have been. This distinguishes socionics trait of Negativism from manifestations of personal traits such as pessimism, depression, or propensity to "catastrophize". "

So... going by the info above... I'd say you are more positivist?

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Oh, no way, I am so much a Negativist and I am so glad to see Johannes' explanation he found because I do that all the time. And I have seen it annoy some people, when they explain something negative, and I immediately answer showing them a positive side (inverse) of what they presented. And they look at me with silent annoyance, like, that is NOT what they asked to hear!

So sometimes when I am being good, and considerate of who I am talking to and not focused on self-expression (as if often the case when I have previously felt I annoyed this person by being myself) , I remember that, and bite my tongue, and diplomatically answer against my instinct: "Oh. Yes. That is bad..." And I see their little bit of relief, and I sigh relief inside, thinking, "Good thing I did that"...

(I wonder if other Negativsts have ever experienced that reaction when they automatically present the inverse?)

We really do need other types in our life to keep us on our toes...

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Oh sorry. I have been heading to bed for 3 hours! This is so out of hand. Oh and I don't need citations, that's okay. Sounds good to me.


Oh, no way, I am so much a Negativist and I am so glad to see Johannes' explanation he found because I do that all the time. And I have seen it annoy some people, when they explain something negative, and I immediately answer showing them a positive side (inverse) of what they presented. And they look at me with silent annoyance, like, that is NOT what they asked to hear!

So sometimes when I am being good, and considerate of who I am talking to and not focused on self-expression (as if often the case when I have previously felt I annoyed this person by being myself) , I remember that, and bite my tongue, and diplomatically answer against my instinct: "Oh. Yes. That is bad..." And I see their little bit of relief, and I sigh relief inside, thinking, "Good thing I did that"...

(I wonder if other Negativsts have ever experienced that reaction when they automatically present the inverse?)

We really do need other types in our life to keep us on our toes...

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Lol, you compare everyone to a person you know for typing, you look fo the simalarities. It is very similar to maritsa's method in that way...who is also a positivist..lots of times you say...oh you are so like my >insert friend/family members name< they are also >insert tyep<

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Another excuse to procrastine. Besides this video I just posted: http://screen.yahoo.com/popular/baby...144913027.html

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I watched this video earlier today on a news link and have been mentioning it to others this afternoon. This baby's display of feelings & empathy for his mother when she is singing is incredible - he is experiencing highs and lows with her throughout the song.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

You do not need to prove things to these individuals. You don't seem to understand that they have a hard time you being labeled as IEE :).

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Oh that's okay, I am beginning to see that their Eliza=not-IEE as a truly sincere idea they have. (I wondered if it was just an attempt to annoy me so I was inclined to back away because that seemed silly and I wasn't going to get annoyed, just disinterested...). But now paying more attention, I think its just their honest idea, which I respect.

I appreciate the kind attempt to back me up but remember my experience as a lookalike is not the same as you -- IMO! Not trying to offend certain forum members here -- because I think IMHO that they are your Supervisors so these discussions are painful for you when Supervisors do what comes natural.

And we are all a nasty Supevisor to someone!

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

Lol wut, it is not at all... you fit the positivist profile so much better.

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From what I've seen of Eliza's posts, she fits the negativist trait. For example, here is one of her past quotes: "I do not see Barack as EII - he is not ethical enough or intuitive enough and I know my Mirrors, and I do not think Michelle is LSI - she is not intellectually pragmatic enough or Introvert enough." The main feature of this quote is that Eliza is negating properties: she is taking Barack's personality then cutting off certain parts, which is congruent with the negativist H-P thinking style that is attributed to type IEE.

Additionally, Eliza's writing lacks the kind of precision you would see in dolphin's (SEE) posts. Her perceptions are too diffuse and chimerical, her replies are too disperse and vaporous. To me her posts sound like they were written by someone with an exceptionally pronounced dispersive intuition as a dominating function rather than someone of cogent sensing.

It seems like her being type 2 of the enneagram positivist outlook triad is getting confused for socionics positivism.

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Originally Posted by Escapee

I watched this video earlier today on a news link and have been mentioning it to others this afternoon. This baby's display of feelings & empathy for his mother when she is singing is incredible - he is experiencing highs and lows with her throughout the song.

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It really is quite wonderful.

I hope that all you women here who have not had babies yet, when you do someday, that you can stay home with them for as long as you can manage it. Its a sacrifice a million times worth it. You will remember those days with such sweet tenderness; you never forget them. Babies bond with their moms, they need that. Its deeply wounding when a baby is deprived of that. That sweet baby in the video is clearly comfortably bonded with Mom and that's why she is relaxed enough to be who she is, which happens to be somebody possessing a high degree of empathy. I completely believe that this baby girl has not had to suffer separations, ever. And that Mom sounds happy - she also has not suffered separations from her baby.

When my son was this age, we were never separated ever and I was in a store so he was in his usual store place: in a sling. I was surprised by another mom touching my arm: "What is that? (pointing to sling). I told her, saying its my favorite baby thing ever, and she said, "Look at your baby, so alert and happy. And look at mine." Her baby boy, same age, had a blank stare. Disconnected. He probably suffered separations. Well some moms have no choice. I knew this was the problem but not knowing she had any choice, I told her instead, "You can fix that by carrying him every chance you have. The sling helps you keep him close. You can cook (carefully) do laundry (slowly) and other chores and never put him in a cart when you shop - use the sling, so he always has you and always can be peaceful. The more you connect the more alert and relaxed he gets."

I remember seeing a glimmer of hope at this, in her distress that seemed to have just come forcibly to the forefront for her at that moment. I always thought of her and hoped she "fixed" it.

Dads can wear babies too. My SLI brother always carried his son in a backpack every time he and his wife went anywhere, and they were out and about a lot.. They bonded well because of it, and always enjoyed each other's company and his son was a notably relaxed and alert baby.

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Originally Posted by siuntal

From what I've seen ...negating properties..lacks the kind of precision...perceptions are too diffuse and chimerical, her replies are too disperse and vaporous... dispersive intuition as a dominating function...enneagram positivist outlook triad is getting confused for socionics positivism....

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Wow, siuntal. You know your stuff. Impressive vocabulary. What type are you?

Some kind of strong "I" ... so incisively analytical, kind of brainy.. INTJ??

"vaporous" LOL. ...Yeah, probably guilty as charged.

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Originally Posted by siuntal

From what I've seen of Eliza's posts, she fits the negativist trait. For example, here is one of her past quotes: "I do not see Barack as EII - he is not ethical enough or intuitive enough and I know my Mirrors, and I do not think Michelle is LSI - she is not intellectually pragmatic enough or Introvert enough." The main feature of this quote is that Eliza is negating properties: she is taking Barack's personality then cutting off certain parts, which is congruent with the negativist H-P thinking style that is attributed to type IEE.

Additionally, Eliza's writing lacks the kind of precision you would see in dolphin's (SEE) posts. Her perceptions are too diffuse and chimerical, her replies are too disperse and vaporous. To me her posts sound like they were written by someone with an exceptionally pronounced dispersive intuition as a dominating function rather than someone of cogent sensing.

It seems like her being type 2 of the enneagram positivist outlook triad is getting confused for socionics positivism.

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I don't much care for this particular dichotomy, myself.
For example, you gave one typing example, but here is another:

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Originally Posted by Eliza

But when I listen to Anndelise, without any intention, rather than make connections to myself, I find myself thinking, without choosing to, "Oh,that's just like Cheri; that's what she would do....

So its not a scientific way of typing her, its just my impression - which I arrive at in a very IEE way, I think.

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Its just that you remind me of SEEs I know - Cherie who cares for my mother when I take time away from her. Also of Becca, my SLI-love’s adult daughter, and Angie, an acquaintance-friend from college days - all SEEs. [All these names are made up.] When I read what you write, I am reminded of these.

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And its rather an intuitive connection, but I feel quite sure of it, and I think I am pretty strong with that intuitive thing, because I think in this case I am using my very strongest function. (but I am not infallible!) And with you, my mind keeps going to Cherie, who helps me understand Becca, and knowing them helps me understand my old friend back when, Angie. It seems to me as if my mind involuntarily goes to Cherie when I am trying to understand you!
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Furthermore, my mind goes somewhere else when you are in conflict with Marista. You have written long posts when you are in conflict with her, and I read them and can feel your angst. And that angst is so familiar! I can feel it (that’s why I told you: I believe you are genuine) and it reminds me of a very angst I only know too well. The angst and the irritation and impatience you feel with Marista is exactly like what I have to deal with with my mother. Its how I easily feel towards her. I’m not proud. I can’t help it! And my mother is my Supervisee. And if you are SEE, then Marista is your Supervisee. No wonder I know just how you feel!

It’s the overall feeling I get from the way you write. That frustration, that “how can anyone even think that way??” kind of annoyance – that’s what I feel with my mother too often! (I have to hold it in! I want to be kind!).
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Let me tell you a little aobut Cheri, Becca, Angie and what they all have in common. A gorgeous thick head of hair, all three of them, just like you (I saw your “haircut” pics on your blog) and also like you, nice eyes, nice womanly features and figure, feminine faces of fuller features and by full I do not mean fat. All three are attractive of face and figure. All three are openly friendly, approachable, and easy to be around, and will speak to anyone, and love a social situation. They are all active, moving about a lot. They all speak their mind very assertively, but as assertive and surprising and strong as their opinion may be, they are not trying to push you; they are just being themselves.

Cherie approaches her work in a random sort of way, sort of like you. In fact, at first, I can make no rhyme nor reason of it. But then on closer examination I can see she has a plan, goals, priorities and is moving in the direction she wants to go. She is not one to get overly caught up in just-so details like I can. I see these things in you in your approach to work.
.....

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Originally Posted by Eliza

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Originally Posted by anndelise
Just so you are aware, I find that "NeFi" describes how I process information better than any other element/function combination. This includes the more problematic issues which "NeFi" would naturally face when dealing with certain types of information. I hope you will be prepared to answer questions such as how an NeFi might perceive or internally react to whatever your 'proof' is, as well as what necessarily prevents an NeFi from even dealing with your 'proof' in the way it was dealt with.

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I may not be prepared to deal with that. Its really about relating you to SEEs I know, as well as the differences inhow you and I seem to approach things which in my theory its because we are SEE/IEE. I think I really get you becasue we are "Lookalikes". But I see just enough of a difference, that S/N . Just a small difference in how we seem to approach things. And about how your frustration with Marista I feel as if its mine, since its exactly how i feel with my Mom at times!

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Etcetc
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post895687
Post 35&37 are full of this.

What I think has somewhat recently happened is that her initial response is the similarities, but after reading that IEE were negativists...and what that meant, she began altering her writing style. But regardless of what I think happened to cause the change, I do see a noticable change which doesn't show up in multiple types of her conversations. (As in, other than typing others ...or retyping others.)

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Originally Posted by anndelise

I don't much care for this particular dichotomy, myself.
For example, you gave one typing example, but here is another:

Etcetc
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post895687
Post 35&37 are full of this.

What I think has somewhat recently happened is that her initial response is the similarities, but after reading that IEE were negativists...and what that meant, she began altering her writing style. But regardless of what I think happened to cause the change, I do see a noticable change which doesn't show up in multiple types of her conversations. (As in, other than typing others ...or retyping others.)

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This dichotomy is the one that differs between dual types, meaning that it is oscillating rather than absolute unlike Process/Result. If you notice there is nothing concrete and specific to grab a hold of within this post. Even the names have been made-up. She speaks of associations she has drawn between several different individuals who have nothing to do with one another based on some vague tangents of which only she is aware of. I don't really see Se-leading democratic type within this paragraph, more like an intuitive aristocrat.

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Originally Posted by Eliza

... Furthermore, my mind goes somewhere else when you are in conflict with Marista.

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Which would be strange for an ESE or a SEE. The extraverted sensing types are very much present and 'in the moment' in situations of conflict, not wondering about in their minds.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Wow, siuntal. You know your stuff. Impressive vocabulary. What type are you? Some kind of strong "I" ... so incisively analytical, kind of brainy.. INTJ?? "vaporous" LOL. ...Yeah, probably guilty as charged.

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That was mostly because your posts remind me of this description of IEE:

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"Huxley (Hek, Hechka, IEE):

... At the same time, they write just as they speak - productively, copiously, but disjointly, without assumptions, without findings, without beginnings or endings, and even without paragraphs. Reading this, and even more so - penetrating into these funky in form and in content textual pieces can be done only out of great sympathy for them. If you succeed, be assured - Huxley won't be stingy for the reward, and in a short time will roll the next opus. Enjoy."

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You and Maritsa both stand out on this forum because both of you are 2s, which is rare around these parts. Most of the Delta NFs here seem to be around 1-6-7 spectrum. I've had a feeling for a while that 2s and 4s don't really fit in and therefore are more likely to question their typing or have it be questioned by others.

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Originally Posted by siuntal

This dichotomy is the one that differs between dual types, meaning that it is oscillating rather than absolute unlike Process/Result. If you notice there is nothing concrete and specific to grab a hold of within this post. Even the names have been made-up. She speaks of associations she has drawn between several different individuals who have nothing to do with one another based on some vague tangents of which only she is aware of. I don't really see Se-leading democratic type within this paragraph, more like an intuitive aristocrat.

Which would be strange for an ESE or a SEE. The extraverted sensing types are very much present and 'in the moment' in situations of conflict, not wondering about in their minds.

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There is nothing concrete and specific because she is describing emotions, not sensations, and nothing objective which others can look at to form their own judgment. We are expected to just take her word because she has "impressions"? Oh, well...let's just throw out my "impressions" of myself, of IEE, etc, and Kim's "impressions" since Eliza doesnt think Kim is IEE...oh, and same for Gem, and mikemex, and all them "IEE who are really SEE". Simply because Eliza's "impressions" are obviously more "real"?? Uh, no.

ESE have Ne mobilizing/hiddenagenda. Which means ESE Ne would be just as primary a component to them as your Ti is to you (unless you no longer type as NiFe), and as Te is to IEE. And it would be intimately mixed with their Fe. Perhaps this 2D Alpha Ne is what you are picking up on?

Btw, have you been following her posts of the past month or so?

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

. They bonded well because of it, and always enjoyed each other's company and his son was a notably relaxed and alert baby.

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you forgot something

http://glassmelts.com/wordpress/wp-c...zz-300x225.jpg

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Originally Posted by siuntal

That was mostly because your posts remind me of this description of IEE:



You and Maritsa both stand out on this forum because both of you are 2s, which is rare around these parts. Most of the Delta NFs here seem to be around 1-6-7 spectrum. I've had a feeling for a while that 2s and 4s don't really fit in and therefore are more likely to question their typing or have it be questioned by others.

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E2 is very, very stubborn especially if moving towards disintegration point which is E8. I know this personally from my mother. When moving to E4, E2 can become more arrogant and excentric, detached from reality and further enclosed in their particular views which they then see as 'different' which is an E4 trait, but creating absurdly different views to the point of being detached from concrete reality (in many ways like Maritsa seems to go most of the time). The problem with E2 seems to be that they are only superficially sensitive; the deeper sensitivity and sensibility should come when they move towards E4.

And yes at some point in the past there were many E2s who were Delta NF here and the forum became a total mess with their arguing and conficting POVs, which of course they never managed to agree about in any way, and furthermore they retaliated those who didn't agree with them with offenses (Fi on ego) and that was just a total mess.

Lately the forum has had its shares of offenses between members and some of them E2, and it's interesting that user Absurd an E8 was just there to throw more wood at the fire, and it is also interesting how E8s can have a bad influence on E2s, and this applies to any of the disintegration points for a certain type in Enneagram. I just don't see that much of a generation of fight when E6s disintegrate into E3 for example, or when an E5 disintegrates into E7. Definitely the most problematic disintegration in terms of offending and wanting their views to be absolute realities occurs when E2s disintegrate into E8.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

http://glassmelts.com/wordpress/wp-c...zz-300x225.jpg

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Sooo cute! *.* Fluffy, little kitten!

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Originally Posted by siuntal

That was mostly because your posts remind me of this description of IEE:
"Huxley (Hek, Hechka, IEE):

... At the same time, they write just as they speak - productively, copiously, but disjointly, without assumptions, without findings, without beginnings or endings, and even without paragraphs. Reading this, and even more so - penetrating into these funky in form and in content textual pieces can be done only out of great sympathy for them. If you succeed, be assured - Huxley won't be stingy for the reward, and in a short time will roll the next opus. Enjoy."

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............................ :eek:

"O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."

............................ :P

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Originally Posted by siuntal

You and Maritsa both stand out on this forum because both of you are 2s, which is rare around these parts. Most of the Delta NFs here seem to be around 1-6-7 spectrum. I've had a feeling for a while that 2s and 4s don't really fit in and therefore are more likely to question their typing or have it be questioned by others.

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Interesting.

i personally see plenty of assumptions in elizas posts though in fairness i don't read all of that text very closely.
but i'm not convinced she's ese>iee. her sentiments seem more personal (albeit self-righteously so) than universally applied.

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Originally Posted by siuntal

This dichotomy is the one that differs between dual types, meaning that it is oscillating rather than absolute unlike Process/Result. If you notice there is nothing concrete and specific to grab a hold of within this post. Even the names have been made-up. She speaks of associations she has drawn between several different individuals who have nothing to do with one another based on some vague tangents of which only she is aware of. I don't really see Se-leading democratic type within this paragraph, more like an intuitive aristocrat.

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I'm not seing that at all siuntal, i just see constant comparrissons and alignment of similarities and decisions based on those simalarities, Eliza does often make the persons she compares with very solid, family members for example 'dear friend's' and she goes into details about specific things they have done as a means to compare. I shall highlight some example from that post.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

I have not followed the argument (lightly skimmed some places only) -- I just am not as schooled as she is, and I don’t know you well or long, so I am ill-equipped to judge it. But it may well be true that her decision that you are a SEE could have influenced my thought that you are that.

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Here Eliza admits that she is being influenced and has not really given objective or multi perspective thought on what she is about to say.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Its just that you remind me of SEEs I know - Cherie who cares for my mother when I take time away from her. Also of Becca, my SLI-love’s adult daughter, and Angie, an acquaintance-friend from college days - all SEEs. [All these names are made up.] When I read what you write, I am reminded of these.

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Here she starts comparrison based on Anne reminding her of others. She also makes this very personal 'her love's adult daughter' 'her mothers carer' all people realted to something very close to her heart and in very close proximity to her.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Because when I see a puzzling response, or a different response than I might expect from a person, my mind searches to understand why a person is behaving that way, and I make conncections to people I already know.

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Note the emphasis about the people, not their behaviour's or thought processes.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

And with you, my mind keeps going to Cherie, who helps me understand Becca, and knowing them helps me understand my old friend back when, Angie. It seems to me as if my mind involuntarily goes to Cherie when I am trying to understand you!

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

You have written long posts when you are in conflict with her, and I read them and can feel your angst. And that angst is so familiar! I can feel it (that’s why I told you: I believe you are genuine) and it reminds me of a very angst I only know too well. The angst and the irritation and impatience you feel with Marista is exactly like what I have to deal with with my mother.

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I do not believe that is Ne at all... I think that is Si 3d. Note how Eliza relates to how Anne is feeling then compares her to someone in memory, Fe Si in motion.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Let me tell you a little aobut Cheri, Becca, Angie and what they all have in common. A gorgeous thick head of hair, all three of them, just like you (I saw your “haircut” pics on your blog) and also like you, nice eyes, nice womanly features and figure, feminine faces of fuller features and by full I do not mean fat. All three are attractive of face and figure. All three are openly friendly, approachable, and easy to be around, and will speak to anyone, and love a social situation. They are all active, moving about a lot. They all speak their mind very assertively, but as assertive and surprising and strong as their opinion may be, they are not trying to push you; they are just being themselves.

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Pure comparrison, no room for argument or different perspective there.

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Originally Posted by siuntal

Which would be strange for an ESE or a SEE. The extraverted sensing types are very much present and 'in the moment' in situations of conflict, not wondering about in their minds.

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ESE is FeSi.....?? Are you confusing typs here or was it a typo?

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Originally Posted by Geminatronix

ESE is FeSi.....?? Are you confusing typs here or was it a typo?

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I believe he meant extroverted sensing as in ESxx.
Or maybe 4D Se (since dynamic extraverted sensing types have 4D Se)

Um, lol, basically, either way..ESxp and ESxj have strong 4D Se which shows up in their info processing.

Though personally, I still think there is a difference between Ne hidden Agenda vs Ne Role, and how that plays out.


Edited to add: I also think that what he's seeing as

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lacks the kind of precision you would see in dolphin's (SEE) posts. Her perceptions are too diffuse and chimerical, her replies are too disperse and vaporous. To me her posts sound like they were written by someone with an exceptionally pronounced dispersive intuition as a dominating function rather than someone of cogent sensing.

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refers to the vortical-synergetic cognitive style rather than the holographical-panoramic one.

To compare either of these to the SEE causal-determinist style is rather meaningless in terms of which non-causal-determinist cognitive style is being used.

Eliza, this is no offense intended here. But you really do write a lot, I mean you should be a writer or think about writing thesis and articles because you write so much. And you seem to enjoy it. And it's admirable from my POV because I have no patience to write that much, I try to have a general idea or synthesise the ideas I have and then write as little as I can, partially because of laziness, partially because I don't think many people will take time to read here on this forum if I write a lot.

I'm accepting suggestions for my type from everyone. So please suggest a type for me, you all. I would like to have this insight from others into myself. Even though they don't know me much, it's useful.

maybe we can't start fresh but it doesn't hurt to try.

1981slater
A Grain of a Song of Sand
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Yaaroslav

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

I hope that all you women here who have not had babies yet, when you do someday, that.....

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"If", not "when"

I hate it when people suggest or imply that all women will have children and that women are meant to have children as an inevitability that will happen because that's "waht happens" and therefore excluding women who cannot or choose not to have children. Not to mention it pressures people who may be terrible parents into having children whether or not they want them or are able to care for them just because "it's what you're supposed to do".

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Originally Posted by Jadae16t

I already went down this road with Eliza. Good luck with the argument :P

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Either she agrees with me (because I'm right, duh), or says something about how children are gifts from god (who?) and that it is every woman's duty to bear children (lolok), and that it's different when it's your own (which is why child abuse and neglect is a thing), all of which devolves into a steaming pile of :hide: and :shrug:.

Basically, predicatble arguments/debates/discussions are the most boring kind, and those are the kind that I don't care to continue. I make a point (that is a very good one, you have to admit) and bow out. I don't enjoy talking in circles, which is what most of the arguments on here consist of.

I have more serious matters to attend to. Like playing pokemon.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

It really is quite wonderful.

I hope that all you women here who have not had babies yet, when you do someday, that you can stay home with them for as long as you can manage it. Its a sacrifice a million times worth it. You will remember those days with such sweet tenderness; you never forget them. Babies bond with their moms, they need that. Its deeply wounding when a baby is deprived of that. That sweet baby in the video is clearly comfortably bonded with Mom and that's why she is relaxed enough to be who she is, which happens to be somebody possessing a high degree of empathy. I completely believe that this baby girl has not had to suffer separations, ever. And that Mom sounds happy - she also has not suffered separations from her baby.

When my son was this age, we were never separated ever and I was in a store so he was in his usual store place: in a sling. I was surprised by another mom touching my arm: "What is that? (pointing to sling). I told her, saying its my favorite baby thing ever, and she said, "Look at your baby, so alert and happy. And look at mine." Her baby boy, same age, had a blank stare. Disconnected. He probably suffered separations. Well some moms have no choice. I knew this was the problem but not knowing she had any choice, I told her instead, "You can fix that by carrying him every chance you have. The sling helps you keep him close. You can cook (carefully) do laundry (slowly) and other chores and never put him in a cart when you shop - use the sling, so he always has you and always can be peaceful. The more you connect the more alert and relaxed he gets."

I remember seeing a glimmer of hope at this, in her distress that seemed to have just come forcibly to the forefront for her at that moment. I always thought of her and hoped she "fixed" it.

Dads can wear babies too. My SLI brother always carried his son in a backpack every time he and his wife went anywhere, and they were out and about a lot.. They bonded well because of it, and always enjoyed each other's company and his son was a notably relaxed and alert baby.

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You give forceful advice packed in nice words like my (probablyESE) grandmother (I love her nevertheless :))
I get instantly a feeling of supervision when I get the feeling that someone is telling me how I should live my life my grandmother does it all the time by saying It makes me said that... I hope that... (I know she does that because she loves me and want to make my life better)

Eliza its just impossible that we are duals. Your posts often annoy me somehow and while I think that duals can have struggle about beliefs and convictions I don't think they struggle about the "how it's communicated" And as I said I am often a bit irritated about your posts(I don't count the New German Medicin fight we had).

So I think you, I or even both are mistyped. Because I see myself as rather bad typist who can't even type most of his close friends It could really be me but I don't see a possibility that we might be duals.

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Originally Posted by Jadae16t

I had to fix this atrocious error :biggrin:

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I don't actually play LoL. Haven't tried, and it's a toss-up as to whether or not I would like it. I don't think I will; I play WoW on occasion, but always PvE and can't stand PvP. A friend assures me that I would really like LoL, but I think he's biased because he just wants someone to play with. :\

clones > children

also,
@labcoat: LII
@Trevor: LII

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Originally Posted by Jadae16t

Oh, once you try lol, you can never go back.

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I'll report back when I get a computer that can handle it.

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Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts

"If", not "when"

I hate it when people suggest or imply that all women will have children and that women are meant to have children as an inevitability that will happen because that's "waht happens" and therefore excluding women who cannot or choose not to have children. Not to mention it pressures people who may be terrible parents into having children whether or not they want them or are able to care for them just because "it's what you're supposed to do".

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I fucking hate when people say children are miracles. Children are a biological normative. You know what would be a miracle? A kid born with gold bars so it could pay for itself. I would have kids all the time just to see gold come out my vagina.

You're not getting anything special unless your kid comes out looking like this.

Attachment 2613

Now that's unique. (I'm not "making fun" of Julianna she seems like a sweet kid with a lot of spunk.)

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Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts

I'll report back when I get a computer that can handle it.

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Don't beleve them, it's a trap. lol is really lame, i tried it once, earlier today. brb, game starting.

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Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts

"If", not "when"

I hate it when people suggest or imply that all women will have children and that women are meant to have children as an inevitability that will happen because that's "waht happens" and therefore excluding women who cannot or choose not to have children. Not to mention it pressures people who may be terrible parents into having children whether or not they want them or are able to care for them just because "it's what you're supposed to do".

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Oh, yes, I should correct that. I did not consider it reading out that way but I do see it does. Yes, of course this is not for all woman. And further, not birthing, adopting or raising a child does not preclude a woman from living out what is mother.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Oh, yes, I should correct that. I did not consider it reading out that way but I do see it does. Yes, of course this is not for all woman. And further, not birthing, adopting or raising a child does not preclude a woman from living out what is mother.

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What do you actually mean Eliza? I can't understand what you are trying to express.

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Originally Posted by Daft21

You give forceful advice packed in nice words like my (probablyESE) grandmother (I love her nevertheless :))
I get instantly a feeling of supervision when I get the feeling that someone is telling me how I should live my life my grandmother does it all the time by saying It makes me said that... I hope that... (I know she does that because she loves me and want to make my life better)

Eliza its just impossible that we are duals. Your posts often annoy me somehow and while I think that duals can have struggle about beliefs and convictions I don't think they struggle about the "how it's communicated" And as I said I am often a bit irritated about your posts(I don't count the New German Medicin fight we had).

So I think you, I or even both are mistyped. Because I see myself as rather bad typist who can't even type most of his close friends It could really be me but I don't see a possibility that we might be duals.

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Well. Sorry to annoy you.

Not ESE. I married one, had and have plenty of ESE friends and the NP/SJ differences are quite distinct, as well as all the Model A differences.

When you read words you can misinterpret. No facial expression, not voice intonation. You misinterpreted me. My advice is not forceful. I do care deeply about it that topic though, and true to my type - I like to share important personal growth experiences. I like to help people have what really makes them happy. In a helpful teacher kind of way, like, "Try this! It works!" Not a dictator way, "Everyone has to do it this way since its the only way." And IRL I only say "Try this!" to one who is open to hearing that. I am very alert to any sign to change the subject. I also ask. In fact IRL I listen way more than i talk. Its easier!

After meeting my SLI who I wrote as friends for so long our writing took a different tone, as future was very much on our minds - without it being a topic yet. Keeping things light,in spite of what I was feeling and felt he was feeling (I would not dare ever ask; I waited til he said things), I wrote an email just saying what I made for dinner that night, and went on about the swiss chard how I like to cook it just right and it tastes so great and its so healthy and so good for us.:) . SLI wrote back all stern that he didn't appreciate anyone telling him how to eat, that his sister does that, goes on and on about frozen veggies even though she smokes, and he can't stand it.:mad: LOL.

It endeared me because he gave away the unspoken: that he was thinking about future. :) But I explained to him that I was just talking about what I do/think and I NEVER tell people to what to eat and that I believe VERY strongly in personal freedom and I never did that with my ex and I don't even tell my son what to eat. I always give him choices when I can about what to have for dinner because I want to cook what people want.... Freedom is so important to me.

Well SLI was relieved when I explained it, I could tell. And now he doesn't have any of those worries.

I am probably not like your grandmother at all. I have an ESE friend who may well be though. She is so pushy with her husband and her kids. If she is not telling ppeople what they shoudlbe doing she is fussing and steaming to herself about it, never at reast. She is admirably and energetically dedicated to serving her family, but she has MANY detailed ideas on how they should do every single thing. It can't be peaceful to be a kid in her home. She has too high standards about every aspect of their life. And we share Catholic values, and i agree, her ideas about doing things this or that way are usually "ideal" standards. But you can't impose all that on people. The kids obey when young but they bust out later. Another thorn is she aspires to the "Asian Mom ideal" (she is from Singapore), and sort of excuses herself that way. But eldest daughter, 13, is angrily rebelling already...

I just am not that way. I have high standards of how I do things but I don't impose them on ANYONE. Not even my own son. He makes a lot of choices I would never. Like I would never pick for my son to watch shows about zombies and play Assassins Creed. I suffer it in silence (or sometimes ear plugs). ( do have some "No way, not in this house"). He is SLE and totally different from me, a separate person not an extension of me and I respect he is an emerging person who is not going to make all the right choices the first time.. I wield my parental right to keep to just a few minimum standards for him with a very short list of "must do's". I was interested in the Swedish parent article recently because it was too much like how I parented, to some of the same results at times... my young son thought he was another little adult...Sometimes I worry I go too far the freedom way.

However, I do have a secret weapon to get what I ultimately want - I pray.

Don't completely count out we may be duals. [I'm IEE, and SLI seems a strong possibility for you IMO]. Consider the misinterpretations such as the one I just explained. And consider how strangely different duals are, the same only on "P". Its not the sort of "I get that!" you get with your identical. Duals don't appreciate each other when they first meet.. And we are certainly more strangers than old friends.....

And its good to get know the strange ways of your duals in your life. So when you meet one you want to date, you won't discount and overlook what coUld turn out to be a very good thing for you. :)

And hopefully today you learned that when she shares her strong personal values and ideas about how is the best way she should do things, you can relax because unlike your grandma she wont have ideas about how you should do things. Instead she will be ever-curious and interested in why you do what you do. :) I never get tired of that with my SLI. I guess its because he is so different from me.

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P.S. I forgot you were in on that German New Medicine thing. I had just mentioned it, and someone jumped in who hated that theory. But the thing is, I know its different view, too different for most. And I don't talk about it IRL for the most part because for most people health matters are too personal, and tied to family tradition and ideas of those they trust, the health plan they worked hard to pay for, the doctor they trust, etc. Who wants to consider a new paradigm anyway? Few. I respect that.

I love my SLI and want him to have along life, because know we will enjoy all our moments together. I would NEVER push him. God forbid it would come to it, but if he choose radiation/chemo over natural for cancer, and I had to watching him (IMO) needlessly suffer, I still would, rather than harm him trying to impose my ideas on him. (however, he has taken to the easy part of my health regime, supplements, because he was willing, and he chooses to stick with it since he feels great on it. My Naturapath sees it as prevention so Lordwilling we wont ever have to deal with that scourge).

I never impose ideas on people. Ideas are too sacred, and the free will of persons is too scared. God would frown at me...

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Well. Sorry to annoy you.

Not ESE. I married one, had and have plenty of ESE friends and the NP/SJ differences are quite distinct, as well as all the Model A differences.

When you read words you can misinterpret. No facial expression, not voice intonation. You misinterpreted me. My advice is not forceful. I do care deeply about it that topic though, and true to my type - I like to share important personal growth experiences. I like to help people have what really makes them happy. In a helpful teacher kind of way, like, "Try this! It works!" Not a dictator way, "Everyone has to do it this way since its the only way." And IRL I only say "Try this!" to one who is open to hearing that. I am very alert to any sign to change the subject. I also ask. In fact IRL I listen way more than i talk. Its easier!

After meeting my SLI who I wrote as friends for so long our writing took a different tone, as future was very much on our minds - without it being a topic yet. Keeping things light,in spite of what I was feeling and felt he was feeling (I would not dare ever ask; I waited til he said things), I wrote an email just saying what I made for dinner that night, and went on about the swiss chard how I like to cook it just right and it tastes so great and its so healthy and so good for us.:) . SLI wrote back all stern that he didn't appreciate anyone telling him how to eat, that his sister does that, goes on and on about frozen veggies even though she smokes, and he can't stand it.:mad: LOL.

It endeared me because he gave away the unspoken: that he was thinking about future. :) But I explained to him that I was just talking about what I do/think and I NEVER tell people to what to eat and that I believe VERY strongly in personal freedom and I never did that with my ex and I don't even tell my son what to eat. I always give him choices when I can about what to have for dinner because I want to cook what people want.... Freedom is so important to me.

Well SLI was relieved when I explained it, I could tell. And now he doesn't have any of those worries.

I am probably not like your grandmother at all. I have an ESE friend who may well be though. She is so pushy with her husband and her kids. If she is not telling ppeople what they shoudlbe doing she is fussing and steaming to herself about it, never at reast. She is admirably and energetically dedicated to serving her family, but she has MANY detailed ideas on how they should do every single thing. It can't be peaceful to be a kid in her home. She has too high standards about every aspect of their life. And we share Catholic values, and i agree, her ideas about doing things this or that way are usually "ideal" standards. But you can't impose all that on people. The kids obey when young but they bust out later. Another thorn is she aspires to the "Asian Mom ideal" (she is from Singapore), and sort of excuses herself that way. But eldest daughter, 13, is angrily rebelling already...

I just am not that way. I have high standards of how I do things but I don't impose them on ANYONE. Not even my own son. He makes a lot of choices I would never. Like I would never pick for my son to watch shows about zombies and play Assassins Creed. I suffer it in silence (or sometimes ear plugs). ( do have some "No way, not in this house"). He is SLE and totally different from me, a separate person not an extension of me and I respect he is an emerging person who is not going to make all the right choices the first time.. I wield my parental right to keep to just a few minimum standards for him with a very short list of "must do's". I was interested in the Swedish parent article recently because it was too much like how I parented, to some of the same results at times... my young son thought he was another little adult...Sometimes I worry I go too far the freedom way.

However, I do have a secret weapon to get what I ultimately want - I pray.

Don't completely count out we may be duals. [I'm IEE, and SLI seems a strong possibility for you IMO]. Consider the misinterpretations such as the one I just explained. And consider how strangely different duals are, the same only on "P". Its not the sort of "I get that!" you get with your identical. Duals don't appreciate each other when they first meet.. And we are certainly more strangers than old friends.....

And its good to get know the strange ways of your duals in your life. So when you meet one you want to date, you won't discount and overlook what coUld turn out to be a very good thing for you. :)

And hopefully today you learned that when she shares her strong personal values and ideas about how is the best way she should do things, you can relax because unlike your grandma she wont have ideas about how you should do things. Instead she will be ever-curious and interested in why you do what you do. :) I never get tired of that with my SLI. I guess its because he is so different from me.

_____________
P.S. I forgot you were in on that German New Medicine thing. I had just mentioned it, and someone jumped in who hated that theory. But the thing is, I know its different view, too different for most. And I don't talk about it IRL for the most part because for most people health matters are too personal, and tied to family tradition and ideas of those they trust, the health plan they worked hard to pay for, the doctor they trust, etc. Who wants to consider a new paradigm anyway? Few. I respect that.

I love my SLI and want him to have along life, because know we will enjoy all our moments together. I would NEVER push him. God forbid it would come to it, but if he choose radiation/chemo over natural for cancer, and I had to watching him (IMO) needlessly suffer, I still would, rather than harm him trying to impose my ideas on him. (however, he has taken to the easy part of my health regime, supplements, because he was willing, and he chooses to stick with it since he feels great on it. My Naturapath sees it as prevention so Lordwilling we wont ever have to deal with that scourge).

I never impose ideas on people. Ideas are too sacred, and the free will of persons is too scared. God would frown at me...

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I forget you DID marry a benefit relations...so, so common.

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Originally Posted by InvisibleJim

What do you actually mean Eliza? I can't understand what you are trying to express.

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I.e., women nurture. Its written in our bodies, we see it so clearly in the mother/child thing, but to nurture/inspire is not just for that short moment in time, its who we are, and there are many ways to express that, not just in the obvious of family life.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

I forget you DID marry a benefit relations...so, so common.

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For IEEs? Or just for women in general?

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

For IEEs? Or just for women in general?

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you said you married an ESE.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa

you said you married an ESE.

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Yes, right, I was just looking to clarify what is "so, so common"?

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

Yes, right, I was just looking to clarify what is "so, so common"?

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it is common for benefits to get married :)

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

I love my SLI and want him to have along life, because know we will enjoy all our moments together. I would NEVER push him. God forbid it would come to it, but if he choose radiation/chemo over natural for cancer, and I had to watching him (IMO) needlessly suffer, I still would, rather than harm him trying to impose my ideas on him. (however, he has taken to the easy part of my health regime, supplements, because he was willing, and he chooses to stick with it since he feels great on it. My Naturapath sees it as prevention so Lordwilling we wont ever have to deal with that scourge).

I never impose ideas on people. Ideas are too sacred, and the free will of persons is too scared. God would frown at me...

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:) That's how I feel when I love someone that I want them around a very long time.

I am more imposing about my ideas than you are ...I activate the it :p
You use Ne for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason

I.e., women nurture. Its written in our bodies, we see it so clearly in the mother/child thing, but to nurture/inspire is not just for that short moment in time, its who we are, and there are many ways to express that, not just in the obvious of family life.

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I think its fair to say that: Women tend to nurture

I don't think its fair to say that women are designed to nurture.