Fi vs Fe, do you find the other side suspicious?

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

A response could be that the world is a fucked up place and that all the fun and happiness and brazeness of Fe is kinda like blowing your nose loudly during a funeral in a church, and oh, it's one of your family members' funerals.


I like Fe fine, but to me it's sometimes unapproperiate and ignorant. That said, that's what i like about it too and what i try to bring to the forum. I can be angry and moody anywhere ^^

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I get that. It's just the way i see it, why would i want to teach the anyone in the world(through my actions) to be a angry moody person. I've been around little children my entire life so there's that aspect of it that influences my thought process here; Others will learn from my behavior.

There's always someone in the world with a worse situation than you that's also happier than you. It's like, that person had so much going against them and you(second person sense) didn't, but they still lived a richer life than you due to youre own attitude. Life is about being happy, and identifying the things that make you happy. Hopefully growing into a person that the things that make you happy, are good for the benefit of others as well.

Getting upset at some minor inconvenience(and most are), is just like, "Get over yourself".

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Originally Posted by Pookie

I get that. It's just the way i see it, why would i want to teach the anyone in the world(through my actions) to be a angry moody person. I've been around little children my entire life so there's that aspect of it that influences my thought process here; Others will learn from my behavior.

There's always someone in the world with a worse situation than you that's also happier than you. It's like, that person had so much going against them and you(second person sense) didn't, but they still lived a richer life than you due to youre own attitude. Life is about being happy, and identifying the things that make you happy. Hopefully growing into a person that the things that make you happy, are good for the benefit of others as well.

Getting upset at some minor inconvenience(and most are), is just like, "Get over yourself".

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Yeah, but it's not really that Fi types are angry moody people; it's more that they are emotionally receptive and have to deal with that in their heads, which makes it somewhat contradictory to act in a way that goes against an internal understanding of the emotional tensions around them. Fe types probably aren't feeling those tensions much to begin because they can be so easily ignored, so of course they are going to seem trivial to them; and of course they will instead strive to get people to feel a certain way based on how they think they should feel, rather than how the person actually feels.

Damn you to hell functions :mad:

I don't find Fi suspicious at all, if anything, Fe is much more suspicious.

What I dislike about Fi is more the feeling of walking on eggshells, hypocrisy under the guise of moral superiority, dispassion and general killjoy vibe. This doesn't apply to all serious quadra types or individuals though.

Not at all, but I'm often clueless about their social games / specific niceties / "inside jokes" / prying to get a reaction. I guess I can find a lot of Fe "confusing" rather than "suspicious".

no.

i feel like Fe-egos have this ability to close their eyes and pretend something very obvious and real in front of them doesn't exist, which makes me really uncomfortable because the moment i go "uh well you know there's a bird shitting on your head right" i've conducted a social faux-pas and i've offended someone or disappointed someone and there are too many implicit rules that i don't instinctively understand. IMO people in this thread are somewhat misrepresenting Fi in that regard. sure, Fi types have rules but they are explicit rules. relationships and appropriateness of things is much more quantified in a way. you talk to strangers a certain way, you talk to very close friends a certain way, there are very few gray areas, just a lot of blocks to get stuck inside. Fe types, on the other hand, seem to straddle this grey area like champs, in fact they can sail from one (to my mind "state") to the other with no transition, so well that it baffles me, because i can't do that. i need to have a moment where i go from "not friend" to "friend", or at least a slow enough transition that i can easily track, whereas for Fe types it's one continuous spectrum.

i regularly feel like bull in a china shop around Fe-egos because i don't understand the very nuanced rules they create on the spot for social situations, i.e. implicit rules in contrast with the suffocating cagey nature of Fi with its explicit rules. a lot of the times i've said things that hurt the person because of the context, rather than my words in particular (i.e. if i had said the same words in a different context, it wouldn't be offensive). a lot of the times i've emoted something or brought a topic up at the "wrong place and wrong time", as per my SEI friend (and by this, i don't mean laughing at a funeral or something sociopathic, but even very mild things like bringing up scholarship applications while music was playing in the car, because apparently something that serious ruins the music). there just seem to be a lot more rules for maintaining this implicit continuity, which is highly restrictive to me because i don't want to monitor the... uh emotive quality of my tone/words every time i want to speak, so i just i end up being quiet and not saying anything.

tl;dr, stereotypes are dumb and Fe can be suffocatingly diffusive for Fi types as well.

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Originally Posted by Pookie

I get that. It's just the way i see it, why would i want to teach the anyone in the world(through my actions) to be a angry moody person. I've been around little children my entire life so there's that aspect of it that influences my thought process here; Others will learn from my behavior.

There's always someone in the world with a worse situation than you that's also happier than you. It's like, that person had so much going against them and you(second person sense) didn't, but they still lived a richer life than you due to youre own attitude. Life is about being happy, and identifying the things that make you happy. Hopefully growing into a person that the things that make you happy, are good for the benefit of others as well.

Getting upset at some minor inconvenience(and most are), is just like, "Get over yourself".

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I like you, Pookie, so please don't take this the wrong way.

I will use an example. R's father asked us to be with him while he went to the dr to receive his diagnosis of cancer. He knew the emotions would hit him, and knew his wife wouldn't emotionally support him. He knew his emotional state would interfere with his ability to listen to the dr and ask questions. And that his wife wouldn't. So we went. And for the first time in 10 years, I wanted to shake some sense and compassion into that woman. The whole time the dr was talking, she was making some comments about how he went in for one thing (i forgot, maybe a cough?) and it turned into colon cancer. And when her husband started tearing up, being overwhelmed with fear, she nonchalantly started telling him that people have had cancers and diseases worse than him, and some lived. And if he didn't, then at least he'd had a good life. The dr finally interrupted her and told R's dad that he certainly wasn't going to belittle him nor his fears. That yes, people have had it worse, but his pain and fear was not to be compared to theirs. This was HIS battle, at THIS time and place and for the next 6 months of chemo. And he and his staff would help him through the health aspects, and the emotional fears and turmoils. And that he was free to express his emotions around them.

I was so grateful for that dr, speaking up, telling his cancer patient that it's ok to be scared and it's ok to cry, to be angry, and any other feelings that might come up as he goes through a scary time in HIS life.

I don't believe emotions can/should be compared to other people's and deemed wrong or inappropriate in and of themselves. To do so rejects/suppresses the innate nature of the person. What we DO with those emotions, how we act from or despite them, however, might be open to judgement.

A FLASH OF LIGHTNING BREAKS THRU THE CLOUD OF SUSPICION

THE HANDS OF LOVE HEALS IT

LIGHTNING AND LOVE NO ONE CAN DENY

i dont have much patience for posting about this stuff anymore but im super stoked about the quality of discussion here, especially snowballs and radios posts. this post is superfluous but whatever, yay!

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Originally Posted by Snowball

I wouldn't use the word suspicious, but that we come from different points of view or values that the other person doesn't appreciate to the point that it can sometimes be impossible to reconcile. For example, I had a problem with a roommate that couldn't relate with people on a personal level; I had this intuition that he had to try to be friendly, but I was okay with it. It was only a problem when one day, after not seeing me for months, he decided he was going to tell me to take out the trash. It pissed me off because he was talking down to me like I was a child and I barely knew this dude and he knew almost nothing about me; but his response to my being agitated was that I was rude; but I was going to throw the trash away because it wasn't that big a deal to me, except he added about 3 times the trash that was there that day to leave for me to throw away, I guess to make some point. That pissed me off and I unloaded on his contradictory behavior in a text message and what I thought about him and he did the same. Then in person he responded by saying to never "talk to him like that" and that I needed to "act like an adult", whatever he thought that was supposed to mean and I told him the same and to go fuck himself. I ended up moving out because he seemed to really hate me after that, but in the end I got the feeling that he had a disconnect with understanding why other people felt the way they did and instead wanted to replace interpersonal understanding with behavioral expectations. The thing that sucks most is that as this was going on I asked around and found out other people had the same problems with him. I guess it was a bit consoling because sometimes stuff like that can make me feel like it's my fault, if I don't know any better.

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TBH this sounds just like a kinda socially maladjusted person. Not really sure this is Fi vs Fe. more Non F ego v.s. F ego maybe..

As an aside, i'd have dumped the trash on his bed. Or rallied people to "take the trash out" meaning getting the guy to leave.

This was on the sx/sp thread, but I think it fits my experience with Fe egos well. It comes from an sx/sp description.

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Originally Posted by silke

soc-blind spot for sx/sp people:
What I really hate is the people with a higher social instinct acting like I'm a bull in a china shop every time I try to say anything. My sister (6w7 so/sp) is horrible about this, sometimes reacting to every comment I make as though I'm the most horrid, uncouth thing imaginable, and in addition taking everything as some kind of slam or insult, when I'm just talking normally and not thinking anything insulting at all. My 9w1 so/sx ex was also really bad about acting like I was social death, and frequently giving me the feeling that everybody was mad at me or something. I think he was just on guard for potential areas of conflict, though, because sometimes I'd find that nobody was upset with me at all.

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I really can't stand it when I'm in a group of Fi egos and one Fe ego attacks me because they think I'm killing the mood. Obviously all the Fi egos couldn't care less.

I'm only suspicious of Beta (possibly Alpha too I suppose) Fe egos when I know that they don't like me. I've met quite a few who have a tendency to try to turn whole groups against you.

well i think that one thing you have to remember is that Fe types really value Ti, as in they aren't necessarily trying to deliver a "real feeling" but rather a "real idea." the Fe changes depending on who the Fe person is speaking to b/c they think that person might not "hear' the idea correctly unless they deliver it a certain way. but at the end of the day you might argue that Fe person are not really trying to change your deep underlying feelings (definitely not your Fi feelings), they are trying to get you to *think* about something in a different way.

conversely Fe/Ti people have to remember that Fi people are not trying to use subjectivity to convince them of something. it can look false too, like using subjectivity where subjectivity has no place. Fi people are trying to communicate how they feel, not necessarily some x y z of how things work or not. it can sound like they are communicating a skewed x y z if you are listening to the Ti behind it. but it's a totally different thing. it's like a different inner world that Fe/Ti people are genuinely not always sensitive towards or attuned to.

Edit: actually Fi people probably are trying to use subjectivity to convince you of something, (just not a Ti something) I think what I said was condescending, I apologize.

I thought the introverted function was more concerned about how it felt so you can Fi types not getting along with each other now that is fun :)

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Originally Posted by darya

I don't find Fi suspicious at all, if anything, Fe is much more suspicious.

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In the theory Fi and Fe-types are not have a suspicious character. What sign of suspicious? :Ne: in 4th position on Model A (vulnerable function). So, Maxim and Dreizer have suspicious character. My practice is confirm it.

I agree, Maxim and Dreiser are both very suspicious.

Fi are deceitful conniving bitches and assholes.

As usual, I'm just not sure that all of the above is actually down to Socionics. The only problems I can say I sometimes experience with Fe versus Fi are as follows:

* a differing perception of where social boundaries lie
* a confusing gap, from my pov, between what some Fi egos and valuers say, and what they do
* less need in Fi to positively validate others
* a sense that someone else's (Fi) values are being foisted on me

But those things are not universal Fi vs. Fe ime; exceptions abound.

And as I've said before, Fe and Fi types seem to accuse each other of the same things, i.e., being fake, being unpredictable, being bitchy, even being dramatic.

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Originally Posted by Kpz

In the theory Fi and Fe-types are not have a suspicious character. What sign of suspicious? :Ne: in 4th position on Model A (vulnerable function). So, Maxim and Dreizer have suspicious character. My practice is confirm it.

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Yeah I would agree with this, in general.

less suspicious than not fully forthcoming. it's like there's an implicit code one is expected to follow (this is more so the case with deltas, as gammas, despite being more severe in ways, tend to be a bit more informal), with one's worth judged accordingly. to me it should be the natural outcome of the subtleties of a person's behavior and expression, not based on some all-encompassing ethical judgment.

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Originally Posted by Snowball

I wouldn't use the word suspicious, but that we come from different points of view or values that the other person doesn't appreciate to the point that it can sometimes be impossible to reconcile. For example, I had a problem with a roommate that couldn't relate with people on a personal level; I had this intuition that he had to try to be friendly, but I was okay with it. It was only a problem when one day, after not seeing me for months, he decided he was going to tell me to take out the trash. It pissed me off because he was talking down to me like I was a child and I barely knew this dude and he knew almost nothing about me; but his response to my being agitated was that I was rude; but I was going to throw the trash away because it wasn't that big a deal to me, except he added about 3 times the trash that was there that day to leave for me to throw away, I guess to make some point. That pissed me off and I unloaded on his contradictory behavior in a text message and what I thought about him and he did the same. Then in person he responded by saying to never "talk to him like that" and that I needed to "act like an adult", whatever he thought that was supposed to mean and I told him the same and to go fuck himself. I ended up moving out because he seemed to really hate me after that, but in the end I got the feeling that he had a disconnect with understanding why other people felt the way they did and instead wanted to replace interpersonal understanding with behavioral expectations. The thing that sucks most is that as this was going on I asked around and found out other people had the same problems with him. I guess it was a bit consoling because sometimes stuff like that can make me feel like it's my fault, if I don't know any better.

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sounds potentially delta

Fe egos have strong Fi so I get along with them well. Their strong but unvalued Fi sometimes misleads me about how close we are, though.
Ti egos on the other hand... yeah, only in small doses. I find it hard to connect with them unless I unquestionably agree with their logic, which they seem to think is universal.

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Originally Posted by Reficulris

TBH this sounds just like a kinda socially maladjusted person. Not really sure this is Fi vs Fe. more Non F ego v.s. F ego maybe..

As an aside, i'd have dumped the trash on his bed. Or rallied people to "take the trash out" meaning getting the guy to leave.

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Yeah, I've been told to punch him in the face, among other things, but I don't see how escalating conflict would really solve it? Maybe it would have with that kind of person, but I don't like being aggressive or violent, if I'm not sure it's required or even necessary. I'm not sure, but I think I made the right choice because he probably had some issues that he needed to work on himself before involving other people with them.

Suspicious isn't the word that comes to mind. Usually the words "demanding," "judgmental" or "irrational" do, depending entirely on the context involved.

Hm. I'm not super confident in my Fe/Fi typings of late, but my standard complaint against Fi egos is that they feel to me to be too neat, too corny, too inclined to believe in boring platitudes... but then I don't know if that's really type related. Lately I've been thinking of Fi as the overwhelming feeling gestalt based on the mind's internal "summary" of all the information of experience one has about a given subject. So I suppose the most type related complaint I can come up with re: Fi egos is that they seem, to me, to cover their emotions in right/wrong terms, terms which I instinctively expect to be grounded in a Ti logical system. This is often expressed in phrases that feel to me pre-defensive, as in: "I just don't think that's appropriate to... [insert transgression here]." And it would be one thing if this were a commonly-held opinion that the speaker knows that his/her audience shares, or something that can be deduced from prior agreed-upon principles (which sounds more formal and staid than it plays out in conversation). But it's really that personal feelings gestalt, the "I feel bed about this" or "I feel that this is unjust" rather than "I can show you WHY this is unjust because of x, y, and z." So I suppose for me it's ultimately more a Ti/Fi conflict than an Fe/Fi conflict. I mean, I think there's a place for the sort of loud n rowdy no holds barred energy thing of Fe people, and that's why I hang around theater people and why people with loud emotions more easily and obviously make sense to me. But, I'm a pretty chill, slow, easygoing person naturally anyway, so I don't need to be around the fast-emotion high-energy Fe crowd all the time anyway. And at least Fi egos are generally (in my experience) courteous. I have more of a problem with people who just make situations uncomfortable and like don't even try to have social skills. Very annoying, that. But presumably adorably inept when it comes to SLEs. Presumably. (I mean it is adorable because they try. So hard. But like don't tell them I said that. They're actually really funny and good at crowds and being entertaining and stuff. Totally. Sorta.)

"Suspicious", no. "Disorienting", "overblown", yes.

Though honestly, when I think of highly extroverted and overly-friendly people (which I tend to associate, perhaps incorrectly, with :Fe: types), those do make me suspicious. I'm like, "Oh god, who are you and why are you being so friendly to me? I don't even know you. This is not okay."

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I hate when people do the above.

Re: not include new people and only talk crap about people.

I talk crap but in a teasing way... And if I tease you...generally it means I feel comfortable (and hopefully you'll laugh and tease me back cuz if not...gets awkward). And my bad.