yes. I get what you're saying. There have been times in my life when I've been more of a naysayer for whatever reason but overall, I believe (and act like) everything will turn out well in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
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yes. I get what you're saying. There have been times in my life when I've been more of a naysayer for whatever reason but overall, I believe (and act like) everything will turn out well in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Mhm since I think of myself as EIE-Ni and I think it's true since my best friend(ili) of six years compared me to our IEI friend and told me we are basically the same shit just today. :D
The same ILI has been complaining that I have too many "masks" or whatever. I don't feel them it's just the way I am. And I think it could be EIE trait.
So as for EIE vs IEI I will tell what I think...
At the first glance I usually see IEIs as my identicals or at least someone I could relate to a lot! When I thought I was SEE I even tried to retype my IEI friend to SEE even tho she would get IEI in all of the tests she would take.
But then in the end I tend to look way more "tough" than IEI and I find myself jealous of IEI qualities like being soft and vulnerable not in a annoying way. That vulnerability of her looks really attractive! but myself I cannot do that.. Even tho I can feel exactly what she feels and maybe I am as vulnerable as her...my qualities are so different that I cannot show that so easily as she can. Instead of that I pretend to be realistic which makes me look cold! I hate that! Then I try to forget my reality and end up looking way too emotional and sensitive and I hate to deal with this self of mine also! What I mean here that my IEI friend seems to be way more balanced than I am.
But that's not so bad since I noticed that this IEI also finds something good in me. Maybe I resemble SLEs a little. Where she tends to shy away I am able to speak. And that's what she likes. :)
Me and my IEI friend once were walking and talked. And she said "imagine a situation you come home and see your boyfriend sleeping with some other girl. I wouldn't say much I think... I would just leave and cry.... and then I imagine you creating such an embarrassing situation right there"
Ha--I dunno! I can be vulnerable but I can also be tough! I can look cold to people I don't know, but I can also be extremely warm.
I do get this comment a lot:
"you look both sad and happy at the same time"
this. gold. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Feel free to call me EIE, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicon
Some more...:
EIEs are more likely to be obsessed with making money and sometimes even come up with some bizarre schemes on how to make money
IEIs are less likely to be obsessed with money-makin'
EIEs can sometimes be somewhat "harsh" or use anger when they want something to get done
EIEs are more business-like in general
IEIs are more casual in general
EIEs are more likely to care about status and having status-symbols
IEIs are less likely to care about those things
EIEs use way more emotions and get excited very easily even when they're just having casual conversations
IEIs don't use emotions as much
When you talk to EIEs it seems like they're talking in more broad and general terms
When you talk to IEIs it seems like they're talking in more personal terms
When EIEs are stressed they seem like they're too "in the know" or care about having special "connections"
When IEIs are stressed they seem overly-analytical about everything
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Are you pulling these outta your ass?
Naturally... No but seriously, I'm basing it on my observation of my EIE and IEI parents... as well as myself (IEI).Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkster
if EIEs are really like that then I understand why for a long time I thought to meet gamma values the most. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
now you're just slammin EIE's, mirror. :wink:
Yeah, sort of... It was kind of the opposite in the last one.
aren't IEIs "emotivists" and EIE "constructivists"? wouldn't IEI-Fe be more emotionally expressive than any EIE? :confused2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Hi,
Sorry for the very vague question, but I find it hard actually to differenciate both of these types. That's why I'm asking this questions to you, and hope you have some explanations or experiences.
Is the IEI less emotionally expressive than the EIE? Is EIE as "passive" as IEI?
What qualities would LSI prefer about EIE, compared to IEI?
How would an Fe dom with creative Ni think differently from Ni dom with Fe creative? Are they so different?
Would EIE take more initatives and be more aggressive?
I'm really wondering about that and hope you will answer to me. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
I'm not the person to answer this question, but I can't help myself. Whenever there's a chance to call EIEs the evil devils they are, I take it (only time I'm initiating anything).
Both types are emotionally expressive, just in different ways:
The EIEs I know are dramatic in their environment. They're the type to instigate fights between two people, then watch with popcorn. No, not all EIEs are this way *coughyoucantproveittomecough*. If you happen to watch many reality tv shows (housewives type crap), many of the women are EIEs.
The IEIs I know, including (mainly) myself, are dramatic in speech. I have a tendency to relay stories and experiences using words, tones etc that give the listener an emotional sense of what happened. People often tell me I tell exciting stories and they feel the emotion I felt, they have anticipation to find out what happened type crap. IEI would be like a musician whose lyrics are "deep" or are meant to evoke strong emotion (then again I'm speaking from an E4 perspective, so . . . ).
EIEs will take more initiative especially with their duals. IEIs not so much. However, subtype matters and Fe subtype of both EIE and IEI are more extroverted and initiative taking, especially in regards to interacting and engaging with other people.
From what I've noticed, Fe dom EIEs are dramatic/emotional in the immediate moment where the Ni dom is more calculating. Ni dom is more likely to plant seeds in people's mind that cause drama down the road. Fe, they want the sh*t to hit the fan immediately.
Oh stop it! You're too kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdleftovers
Attachment 7814
Ooh, the subtype I actually like :agent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane
Oh my, you certainly have turned the tables and tempted this devilish serpent.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdleftovers
OP: IEIs are snake charmers -- it's a known fact.
Socially, IEI sit there attentively with eyes open and ready to listen. EIE flirt and flirt and flirt lol. EIE love to get emotions out of people by staring at them and throwing emotional looks.
I find IEIs more emotionally restrained than EIEs. Also some IEIs sort of have a more "open" look and can appear flirtier without realising it.
Ha yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Person
To be more specific, the biggest difference is the opposite temperaments.
EJ vs IP.
Note: The subtype may skew how their temperament comes across. EIE-Ni will be less outwardly energetic, but are still characterized by a certain restlessness EJs possess.
While IEI-Fe can come across as more direct and proactive in some situations, but when you are hanging out with them one-on-one, you'll quickly notice their generally low, soft, accepting energy.
You could say the IP energy draws you in, while the EJ energy pushes outward. (EP energy is more scattered and drawn outwards into all directions, while IJ energy is self-contained and almost like a self-protective shield.)
Besides the temperaments, I tend to take note of the communication style when trying to type someone. While it may not be a fool-proof method and looked down upon by some, there is generally a perceivable difference between how for example types with 4D Fe (EIE) vs 4D Fi (IEI) talk ("passionate" vs "sincere"). Again, subtypes may skew this – an EIE-Ni will talk a bit more "softer" and thoughtful, while an IEI-Fe will talk a bit more passionately. But again, the dominant style should prevail, especially in relaxed one-on-one situations.
Thanks a lot for your answers.
You seem to say that EIEs can make lot of drama and create tension and fight in groups. I kinda imagined Fe as being the opposite, striving for positive emotions, and taking care of people's mood. I thought that EIE would rather be the people to initiate you and cheer you up. Why do you all give this "evil" tone to the EIE? And what is their motivation behind acting in such a nasty way.
They don't create drama in a group. That's a stereotypeQuote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
Leading functions are same, so they have much common. The easiest way is to compre types descriptions.
In my impressions EIE are more straight, behave luder, more abrupt. IEI are more quiet, elegant, enigmatic.
It's causing a specific range of emotions either way. Same tools, different outcomes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
EIE's are usually well behaved and polite in groups and in public.
1. Yes, though with IEI-Fe there may be more but still a bit less energy expressed than in the case of EIE-NiQuote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
2. No, I agree with whoever posted that even EIE-Ni will still have that certain restlessness. My EIE-Ni friend thinks of herself as an introvert but if you look at the two of us together... she's the one who can't sit still while I can just fine. XD
3. More ideas, more helpful ideas, more activity and more purposeful too, 4D Fe.
4. Can't add to what others said atm, don't have enough time
5. Still Beta NF victim... but they can pretend to be aggressive. And when there is some Fe issue, they actually can get aggressive defending / standing up for the cause.
Just the idiotic manipulative ones are that way that don't know where to spend their energy better. Fe with Ni by default wants to move things forward to something better.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdleftovers
I don't know where this bullshit stereotype comes from, most EIEs fight for some Ethics related purpose. Yes, they can be negative (in the sense of not being constructive at all) but that's usually when they are acting irrationally, not able to make sense of something, getting paranoid, etc. I would certainly not summarize the EIE type by just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
That was me. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Myst
No flirting? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by darya
There is a lot of judgment in here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
According to DarkAngelFireWolf69, EIEs have -Fe. Look at the neat overview below.
-Fe is essentially more inclined to create intense, dramatic emotions. That does not mean that EIEs will use their -Fe in destructive, "evil" ways, or that they can never cheer people up like +Fe would (according to DarkAngelFireWolf69, you are adept at both directions of your first function). A nice example of an EIE using their dramatizing -Fe in good ways was Martin Luther King Jr. His delivery of speech was very -Fe, and because of that very intense and effective.
In comparison, IEIs (preferring/employing +Fe) are largely uncomfortable with inducing a negative, dramatically charged emotionally environment like that. They prefer an upbeat, light, to some extent silly emotional interaction opposed to an intense one.
I generally take a similar approach when typing. I am still exploring the temperaments when typing people and I think it is an important aspect. I do realize that things like disease or mental state can distort their physical state and the way they express themselves. A nervous IEI might not look so relaxed on video. I pay attention to their words and communication style too. I find this person's take on the differences interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SisOfNight
Quote:
Now that we have established the concept of opposing rhythms for statics, it would be in our best interest to observe it in dynamics. As our example, I'll be using the EIE and the IEI, Mirror types.
Dynamic types see effects of things, they perceive what is affecting an object or situation (Ip), and they take action to affect something in their own best interest (Ej). Whereas with the Static Rhythms (Ij and Ep), where we saw order versus chaos in a simplified form, the antithesis here is taking action (participating) versus observing (spectating). You can not participate in something and spectate something at the same time; thus, Ej's naturally take the playing field while Ip's prefer to view the situation from an outside perspective.
Now, as before with statics in establishing order by identifying chaos, to enact change and to affect something, you need to observe how a situation is progressing currently if you wish to actually do so correctly. Thus, Ej's naturally rely on a creative Pi element to allow them to create change and affect a system. Let's take a look at the EIE.
EIE:
Fe Ni
Te Si
The EIE's lead element is an Ej element, extraverted ethics. Thus, the EIE is concerned with affecting people and causing change in the social landscape, being able to influence people emotionally. To do this, however, the EIE, being an intuitive, locks into the internal rhythm of a person (Ni), their psychological state, how they emotionally operate, so that they can perceive the system and know precisely what is already happening in front of them. Then, they can take action and influence the person correctly and with great expertise. In locking into the internal rhythm of a person, however, the EIE unfortunately fails to notice tangible changes in a person that signify emotional states, and may not, for instance, notice how the clothes a person is wearing signify their internal state, nor do they actively notice how physically comfortable the person is, nor any physical cues of discomfort (though they are able to sense it psychologically through the analysis of their words, most of the time, they just don't recognize the physical signals), displeasure, or any other physical expression of emotions. Thus, due to the fact that they observe the internal rhythm and the underlying meanings produced by a person, they subsequently fail to notice physical, tangible changes in a person constantly, and thus build a sort of phobia around information related to it (Si), due to the fact that their use of Introverted Perception is fully directed at Introverted Intuition.
Now, to understand the other perspective of Ip sociotypes, we turn to the IEI.
IEI:
Ni Fe
Si Te
The IEI, belonging to the Ip sociotypes, is concerned foremost with the passive observation of situations. Geared to Intuition, this passive observation is the cognizance of fluctuating, hidden meanings, and the internal rhythms of situations or things. Being an Ethical sociotype, Introverted Intuition is applied to the sphere of Extraverted Ethics (Ni-, Fe+) and is thus oriented towards perceiving the internal rhythms of people, the dynamics of the social realm (and even spiritual), and how people are affecting each other. Unlike the EIE, however, the IEI is unconcerned with actually affecting people so much as understanding people on a deeper, subjective level, how they operate. The EIE simply wants to know how people operate for the sole purpose of being able to affect them somehow (Creative Ni), the IEI wants to know how people operate just because, and so that the IEI can fully understand human nature, and/or the situation that is unfolding presently in the social sphere (rather than trying to affect it, Lead Ni). To help them understand how a person is operating, however, they must either do one of two things. The first way is by simply not acting and only observing a person, but this way is troublesome considering that the sole information supply is from introverted intuition. The other way it to step in and affect people and then to step back out and observe the person's reaction, so that the IEI will better be able to hone in on the internal rhythm and deeper psychological state of the person. Thus, while the Introverted Irrational IEI doesn't prefer to take action, when he or she does, it will be in affecting the social sphere and people, which subsequently means that they will entirely avoid situations where they must affect impersonal, logical systems by actions, as taking action in that sphere truly represents the opposing rhythm of Ej to the IEI.
EIE:
Fe - Affecting People Emotionally and Socially
Ni - By [Passively] Observing the Internal Rhythms of People to Understand the Conceptual Situation
Te - By Ignoring How Information Impersonally affects Logical Systems
Si - And By Avoiding the Immediate Changes in the Observable World to Understand the Physical Situation
IEI:
Ni - Observing the Human Condition, Internal Rhythms, and the Conceptual Situation
Fe - By Affecting People Emotionally and Socially
Si - By Ignoring the Physical Situation, and the Immediately Observable Changes in Reality
Te - And By Avoiding How Information Impersonally affects Logical Systems
Do note that, in this format, the failure in the Role function is the reason for the success in the Lead function, and the failure in the Vulnerable function is the reason for the success in the Creative function. It should then be looked at in this way:
"The LSI is good at Establishing Logical Order in the Chaos of the Physical Environment because the LSI Doesn't Notice, Concern Itself With, and Ignores Ethical Qualms and the Conceptual Chaos in the World of Speculation."
Success in personality, then, is determined by a sociotype's inattention to the problems of the Super-Ego block. If the LSI had to face Ethical Qualms, then the LSI would be unable to Establish Logical Order, as he must now not only organize things logically but ethically at the same time (which would get absolutely nothing done efficiently). LSI, while despising
situations where they must categorize things as right or wrong, or realize the ethics of their own establishment of order, are concerned with how this establishment of order is and will be affecting people (Fe+ Seeking).
http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/361090-closer-look-temperament.html
Thats a given :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritsa
The difference is that IEI's are much more diplomatic, while EIE's dramatize more and tell it like it is -if they feel positive emotions, you will know and if they feel negative emotions, you will know. They are more emotion provoking and provocative -trying to get reactions from others, while IEI's usually just try to keep interaction even-keeled and pleasant. They dont rock the boat as much.
What some people dont get is that while EIE's can certainly shit-stir, they're not like a Jersey shore regular, all over the place or vulgar (vulgar in jokes, sure -some of them, but not in the way they carry themselves). They are quite proper, if not a bit haughty.
I wish my mom had listened to my dad and had more kids Changes were we'd have Beta siblings. And how nice would that have been <3.Quote:
Originally Posted by darya
Thank you Myst for your very helpful answer. I just wonder.
I don't get what you mean exactly here. Why would LSI need more ideas? I'm supposing that LSI would benefit more from 4d Fe. How would it manifest for you? (for example). Do they bring more emotions to your life or something like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst
That's DarkAngelFireWolf69 bs again, I see. Using MBTI j/p switch too? That's just ridiculous, I'm most definitely not an ISTP in MBTI. They are practically Socionics SLI.Quote:
Originally Posted by SisOfNight
Sure, benefitting from 4D Fe and also Ne and Ni, actually. By ideas, in the case of both Ni and Ne, I meant things that are helpful when I want to achieve a goal. Or when we just want to have fun somewhere. Basically giving me the result of their brainstorming (or whatever they do in their head) without me having to bother with any Ne. Their Ni is also great when I wouldn't see possible danger where it's quite relevant - if unrealistic, I don't care about the EIE's input but sometimes it's extremely helpful actually. Then there are the Ni ideas, thoughts they have that I just like to listen to. As for the emotional aspect, that's not a bad summary but I think it's also helpful in people related matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacha
J/p switch is retarted. Istp is named "mechanic" in mbti. Yeah, that's totally not SLI :8*Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst
Today has been an absolutely beautiful day for me filled with so much laughter, and I get to top it off with a post inferring there's such a thing as a healthy EIE-fe. :nope:
Don't know exactly who started this: INTp, INTP=LII etc strange things. I have more suspect about some English site about Socionics, but not DarkAngelFireWolf69. It's suprisingly how many people mindlessly use it and seems don't understand what types notations in MBT mean and how people are typed in MBT practically. And more people don't know that Jung used judging/perceiving and rational/irrational terms for same in his book, besides direct MBT's claims of using Jung's typology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst
From IE pov IEI have Demostrative Fi and is hardcore about mood. With both Creative Fe and Demostrative Fi at play and also introvert they play, experience and live within the mood of themselves and poeple around them. EIE on the other hand have a strong Ne and Ni and would be more inventive I think.
I read some western socionics fan figured the j/p switch method originally. It sometimes works for INxx types, much less for ISxx types.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol