Mirror differences: INFp-IEI and ENFj-EIE

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Originally Posted by Expat

Who seems like a more likely supervisee? INTp or ESFj?

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She talks a lot about instilling passion in others and getting others to react emotionally, rather like a way of life. I think INTps would be scared of this: "The less emotionally reactive a person is, the more I get pissed off. The more I want to prod something out of them."

I seldom talk with other INFps and when I do, there's often nothing to be said. Or I'll see them on forums and feel like bashing them because they're too much like me. This doesn't happen with Lux, whom I am drawn to and open up to. Conversation flows smoothly with her.

My experiences with ESFjs:
One on the internet didn't like how I would interrupt conversations with ponderings on the meaning of life. Booted me and told me to "get a life" Often didn't get what I was saying.

One in real life is very impressed by the smallest things I do, did a lot of favours for me, was always the one who asked me questions that I didn't bother answering most of the time. I'm not very attentive to her and she is disturbed by how I lighten up with her ESTp cousin and my ESFp friend, greeting them way more enthusiastically than I do her.

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Originally Posted by raisonpure

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Originally Posted by Expat

Who seems like a more likely supervisee? INTp or ESFj?

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She talks a lot about instilling passion in others and getting others to react emotionally, rather like a way of life. I think INTps would be scared of this: "The less emotionally reactive a person is, the more I get pissed off. The more I want to prod something out of them."

I seldom talk with other INFps and when I do, there's often nothing to be said. Or I'll see them on forums and feel like bashing them because they're too much like me. This doesn't happen with Lux, whom I am drawn to and open up to. Conversation flows smoothly with her.

My experiences with ESFjs:
One on the internet didn't like how I would interrupt conversations with ponderings on the meaning of life. Booted me and told me to "get a life" Often didn't get what I was saying.

One in real life is very impressed by the smallest things I do, did a lot of favours for me, was always the one who asked me questions that I didn't bother answering most of the time. I'm not very attentive to her and she is disturbed by how I lighten up with her ESTp cousin and my ESFp friend, greeting them way more enthusiastically than I do her.

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Well thanks raison, I feel the same! =D I'm not sure if it means anything but I do feel more of an identity with ENFjs.. my best friend is ENFj and together we are INSANE. She's more alike in wanting to always go out and do stuff like me.. most INFps I know I feel like taking care of in a way, under my wing, because it's adorable how they are introverted and less willing to do things.. albeit a little bit frustrating..

Initiative is important to consider.

Ok few things...:
1. My mom is ESFj in purest form.
2. I am not INFp for sure.
3. I am beta Ni. (that means ENFj)

My mom is awesome, but sometimes she was annoying me with her Si and willing all of things look good for her, all thing look too alphish...... Being very young mom she also liked to press her authority onto me.... but as 2 extraverted judgment types (same temper) we got alot of fights, me in very scary defencive, she in "willing-to-help" , but destructive for me, offencive. She though i am evil sometimes too, and etc. But we being same family members have alot in common, but main things are different , and all advises from her to me are not so usefull, cause of my PoLR and other functions layout really. IT is looking like suspected relationships with ESFj, and i see that it should be supervion in case of INFps cause they would not fight back as i do to show to ESFjs what they really about...

Add me to growing pile of INFps who think they might be ENFj :oops:

would one way be, due to the Fe leading, EIE's tend to focus conversation on themselves more?

is it more of a tendency for an extravert as opposed to an introvert to do this--that is, direct the focus of an event or conversation on themself? i know this depends on a lot, but i'm trying to keep the questions short and sweet.

Wouldn't the introvert be more inclined to talk about themselves? With the extrovert drawing out the introvert to focus on the outer environment, community and such? EIEs tend to be quite community minded in comparison to IEIs....in my experience.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

Wouldn't the introvert be more inclined to talk about themselves?

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I rarely talk about myself. I prefer to ask questions and let the other person talk. That said, I feel flattered (well, depending on the person) when someone asks me questions to try to draw me out. But I don't like feeling put on the spot if I don't feel like talking or don't have an answer.

I think EIEs are generally louder than IEIs, they tend to make a stink about stuff. Traffic, politics, anything that isn't fair, health care policies, they like to take on projects and causes to make the world a better place. IEIs are more focused on their own (and other's) inner experience and landscape.

eta: I didn't mean for that to sound negative when I said they make a stink about stuff. It's more like they have the guts and the energy to take a stand for what they believe in. I think they can make good advocates. Whereas IEIs are sometimes a bit wishy washy.

The wishy washy thing must be just me then because I have a hard time taking on causes of any sort. I really just don't have the energy to walk a picket line or get signatures for political candidates or come up with funds to bring an African child to the states for a much-needed heart surgery (all things that I know other beta NFs have done). I'm enneagram stackings sp-first, maybe that's why. It's not that I don't believe in things, I just don't stand up for those things very well. I have such a incredibly small slice of that instinct compared to my EIE aunt.

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Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

When it comes to being private, I agree. Normally I don't show much of the real me, and I keep my inner thoughts and feelings very private. I can seem open, and talk about things others find personal, but I never talk about the things I really have inside. I think EIEs can be the same, though, but they seem a bit more comfortable with telling what's really on their minds. They seem more relaxed, somehow, where IEIs have a nervous aura?

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very helpful.
this makes sense... and i agree.

therefore... i'm fairly sure i'm EIE. MAYBE IEI-Fe

thanks.

thank you. this is helpful.:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by octopuslove

I'm glad it helped, I often post thinking that my drivel is probably useless to everyone. :lol: Classic IEI!

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if that really is typical, maybe i AM IEI lol. because i often feel that way ;)

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Originally Posted by octopuslove

Or maybe it's just a sign of low self-confidence and high self-doubt... which seems to be more common in IEIs than most other types. :frustrated:

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hahah.. still. both.

what about EIE?
i waver...

highs and lows :o
i think thats Fe tendency :/

grrr.

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Originally Posted by octopuslove

I think it's not all that related to type. Any type can have low self-confidence... so I don't think it's very useful for working out your typing :lol:

Do you have trouble gathering the courage to do things, like approach a superior, or try a new skill? At a party, do you tend to stand in a corner and smile vaguely until someone approaches you, or do you easily converse with people you haven't had much interaction with before?

Something else I've noticed is that people don't tend to hate IEIs, and IEIs don't feel like anyone really hates them with a passion, whereas EIEs seem to have more detractors.

Another thing - I can lie in bed all day, just daydreaming and enjoying how warm and snuggly my bed is, but unefille can't imagine doing that. This might be temperament-related - do you have a stronger preference either way?

(These are all extreme examples, but it might indicate your tendencies.)

You could also post a video. Videos make VI a lot easier, and more reliable.

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yeahhhhh :
yeah...lying in bed thing.. no. no nononoono

can't do
but i think ppl like me?
lol? i think?

:o ruh roh

I hereby declare I am and EIE-Ni subtype! WAHOO! :D lol

lol!

kayyy. reasons are good since that's the point of the forum, i think. blatant statements don't go very far in the realm of theoretical discovery and stuff.

My guess would be IEI-Fe. You don't quite have the gusto or sort of masked firmness that I typically associate with EIEs; Fe subs tend to be active, outwardly moody, fairly assertive or boisterous, which I think you arent, whereas Ni subs tend to seem stormy or even unstable; they have somewhat giddy moods, but tend towards a sort of medium-tempered aloofness or gravitas, which you quite clearly dont.

However you seem to have a kind of consistent mild bubblines tempered by an obvious propensity for frequent, if not almost constant reflection or contemplation, which is one of what I have observed as the manifestations of Fe-IEI.

btw this is not supposed to be a guide to spotting these types; more of my own impressions verbalized, so take what I say here with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Gilly

masked firmness

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Can you talk more about this please?

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Originally Posted by Ezra

Can you talk more about this please?

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I second this. If EIEs are like this how on earth am I supposed to read their Fe??

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Originally Posted by Gilly

...Ni subs tend to seem stormy or even unstable; they have somewhat giddy moods, but tend towards a sort of medium-tempered aloofness or gravitas, which you quite clearly dont.

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yes. yes, i do that. just not online.

i definitely come off unstable. and i partake in these "gravitas" i believe. lawl. ;) but seriously, yeah.

i think i come off a lot more "light" here than i do IRL.:8*

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Originally Posted by pluie

i think i come off a lot more "light" here than i do IRL.:8*

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you do.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

I second this. If EIEs are like this how on earth am I supposed to read their Fe??

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What do you mean by 'read their Fe'?

I think masked firmness is a great description, actually, and speaks to several 'components' of an EIE: 'rationality' and 'Se HA + Fe-leading'. Masked speaks to the element of 'projection' and 'firmness' speaks to what is being projected: a keen desire to come across as firm, certain and decisive, even authoritative. These are not inherent EIE qualities, but cultivated qualities, worn superficially.


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As for pluie, I have to go with Gilly. If you're Beta at all (which I'm not entirely certain of -- you're definitely not Gamma and that's all I've ruled out thus far), I think you're much more IEI-Fe.

in my very humble opinion, I don't think she is an IEI-Fe, I think she is an EIE-Fe.

nobody knows, the trouble i feel...

nobody knowsss.

nobody knows, the trouble i feel...

nobody knowsss.

i've given up on discovering my type. i think i'm too young and the best way to figure it out is to stop analysing, and start just being my natural self.

anyway...

*sings* nobody knows...

Well I this all just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but I would say EIEs are less diplomatic than IEIs and more likely to get into conflicts with others. This is because of IEIs demonstarive function is Fi, whereas Fi is problematic for EIEs.

IEIs lack self confidence in their abilities and SLEs tend to be good at convincing them of their self worth whereas EIEs have already have decent sense of self worth, and while this might not be too important to them, they generally dont have problems with self worth either and if offerered a chance at demonstaring their abilities, they will. This is because of EIEs demonstrative function is Ne, whereas IEIs have no confidence in their Ne. Im not saying EIEs are confident but you know what I mean they genearlly dont really lack confidence either.

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Originally Posted by Typhon

Well I this all just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but I would say EIEs are less diplomatic than IEIs and more likely to get into conflicts with others. This is because of IEIs demonstarive function is Fi, whereas Fi is problematic for EIEs.

IEIs lack self confidence in their abilities and SLEs tend to be good at convincing them of their self worth whereas EIEs have already have decent sense of self worth, and while this might not be too important to them, they generally dont have problems with self worth either and if offerered a chance at demonstaring their abilities, they will. This is because of EIEs demonstrative function is Ne, whereas IEIs have no confidence in their Ne. Im not saying EIEs are confident but you know what I mean they genearlly dont really lack confidence either.

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generally speaking, I think I agree with this.

I just wished we lived in a world where people would publically admit their dorkiness, changing the world requires a high level of self-deprecating humor. A lot of times people who think they're changing things actually don't have no idea what they're really doing they just talk big lol.

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Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

I just wished we lived in a world where people would publically admit their dorkiness, changing the world requires a high level of self-deprecating humor. A lot of times people who think they're changing things actually don't have no idea what they're really doing they just talk big lol.

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What is the relevance of this to this thread?

I hate the idea that we have to always stay on topic. It's so unnatural. In a real conversation, the topic flows from one thing to the next.

But if you must know what I think between EIE and IEIs the answer is this:

IEIs are more stoic, laid-back. EIEs are obviously more extroverted and 'just out there.' If you notice me on Stickam, I barely have a physical presence and I just kinda melt in the background. IEI-Fe subtypes are a bit more 'showy' than IEI-Ni but not as much as an EIE of any subtype.

If you watch me and a few other IEIs we kinda always do the same thing, we just look contemplative all the time. (regardless of subtype I believe) EIEs project their energy much more easily. When an IEI tries, it ends up looking very dignified, and fluid 'artistic.' IEIs look 'stuck in the walls' and have noticeable shy grins.

I have viewed other threads, the info has been okay but I think we can do better. Post up detailed ways to seperate these two types.

Examples of situations and how each would react in them are helpful. How interactions feel different with these two different types are also helpful. Different philosophy, mindsets, comparing Fi ignoring to Fi demonstrative and Ne ignoring to Ne demonstrative, dichotomy comparisons, etc.

Everyone is aware of the ordering already so no 'well, EIE has Si PoLR' replies.

Thank you.

Def what aixelsyd said. EIEs are usually more uptight but also more quick to respond to external stimuli, more opinionated but less head-in-the-clouds. IEIs seem more "emo." IEIs are much more likely to say things that are ambiguous or difficult to interpret, EIEs like to communicate in a more straightforward or traditional way.

One thing I've noticed re opinions is that EIEs tend to stick to theirs no matter what in an argument. If they change their minds, it seems to be done behind the scenes. IEIs seem to be more comfortable with allowing their thoughts to go where they will and letting that process show.

EIEs are more likely to be "critical" and criticize you when you're doing something wrong
IEIs are more likely to just let others do their things and not voice their criticism

EIEs are more likely to have a lot of strong opinions on everything
IEIs are less likely to have strong opinions on everything

EIEs don't tend to make shit up when they say something. Most of the things that they say are from their own experience
IEIs tend to make shit up when they say something. They can just form whatever they like in their head

EIEs are kind of busybodies and they will try to help you with things even if you didn't ask for it
IEIs are more likely to leave people alone and let others do their thing

EIEs are more rigid with themselves and everybody else

EIEs tend to feel that they're obligated to be working for everybody else
IEIs tend to feel that everybody else should be doing the work instead! Ha ha!

EIEs are more likely to be cynical and critical about life in general and tend to be a bit more grounded and pragmatic. They say things like "Life isn't easy, life is tough".
IEIs tend to be a bit more optimistic about life in general and tries to have positive attitude and outlook about things like having "hope" for the future. IEIs believe that anything can happen in the future and tend to hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

EIEs are more likely to be "critical" and criticize you when you're doing something wrong
IEIs are more likely to just let others do their things and not voice their criticism

EIEs are more likely to have a lot of strong opinions on everything
IEIs are less likely to have strong opinions on everything

EIEs don't tend to make shit up when they say something. Most of the things that they say are from their own experience
IEIs tend to make shit up when they say something. They can just form whatever they like in their head

EIEs are kind of busybodies and they will try to help you with things even if you didn't ask for it
IEIs are more likely to leave people alone and let others do their thing

EIEs are more rigid with themselves and everybody else

EIEs tend to feel that they're obligated to be working for everybody else
IEIs tend to feel that everybody else should be doing the work instead! Ha ha!

EIEs are more likely to be cynical and critical about life in general and tend to be a bit more grounded and pragmatic. They say things like "Life isn't easy, life is tough".
IEIs tend to be a bit more optimistic about life in general and tries to have positive attitude and outlook about things like having "hope" for the future. IEIs believe that anything can happen in the future and tend to hope for the best.

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Nice post. A lot of these things are rational/irrational things.

I am ALL of these things at different times. :?

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Originally Posted by Pinocchio

If it happens when you incline forward, for example feeling like an EIE when you pick something from the ground, then you must tie your Fe tighter. If this happens when you lay down on your back, it means it's your Ni. A hammer and some nails would do :P.

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:confused:

:lol:

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Nice post. A lot of these things are rational/irrational things.

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I agree, although a lot of it is Postivism/Negativism related too. (ENFj is Negativist/Process, INFp is Positivist/Result).

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Originally Posted by labcoat

I agree, although a lot of it is Postivism/Negativism related too. (ENFj is Negativist/Process, INFp is Positivist/Result).

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yeah okay. So I went to wikisocion and read up on that stuff. I am definitely INFp. I mean, I knew that already. I wasn't doubting that. I do say things like "life is hard" all the time. lol

Well I was talking about it in a more general sense... Let's say that both the EIE and the IEI have a certain approach to life in general. The EIE will take things more seriously and expect a lot of problems in life and in the future, while the IEI will take things less seriously (or more positively) and expect fewer problems in life as well as believe that everything will turn out well in the end.