Printable View
socionics is much better for describing relationships between people. i think enneagram as a system is pretty wishy-washy and arbitrary compared to socionics, but used in conjunction, enneagram may be useful to help describe differences between socionics identicals.
No offense meant, but If everybody thought like that we'd still be living in caves. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
Heh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agarina
Okay then you'd agree that MBTI is just as useful as socionics/enneagram? Why not combine all three.
I think as far as compatibility
Socionics > instinct stacking > enneagram
Socionics is the most refined form of compatibility, that of communication
Instinct stacking has a lot of relation to lifestyle choices and areas of comfort, so it would lead to some variants to be apart a lot of the time and other to be together more, could be good and bad.
Enneagram says not much about compatibility.
Nope, but I agree with David Hume on his Guillotine: "One cannot derive an "ought" from an "is"Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
I believe, like Glam said, that the stackings/enneagram types can be useful in describing the differences between socionics identicals.
I think enneagram effects relations at least a little.
Imo I get along better with e8 SLE than e7 SLE, I actually think I get along least with 7s (though im unsure about some types in comparison). With 7 there is a lot of attraction and they have a way to make everything more exciting. It's only when we become closer that there are problems.
That's been especially true in my experience.Quote:
Twos will increasingly want to get serious about the relationship just as the Seven begins to feel bored or that the relationship has gotten heavy and unfulfilling. Twos can thus begin to see the Seven as untrustworthy, a playboy (or playgirl) who is selfishly leading them on with no intention of tying the knot. Sevens can begin to see Twos as possessive and manipulative, playing on their guilt or insecurities to make sure the Seven does not stray.
The only problem I see with sx/sp and sp/sx being ideal (at least between peter and I) is that the sx dominant (me) craves intimacy at a much greater volume than the sp (him). He seems to prefer a little one on one time with a lot of alone time whereas I prefer the opposite. It's not a huge deal and of course we compromise but it's one noticeable thing. Other than that it's very good.
Duality by far is AMAZING.
That's because e7 SLEs are ILE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenna
What is amazing, it to love somebody who loves you back and respects you and your values. I'd say it's the easiest among the members of the same quadra. But I've seen happy identical SEI couples (a few) and mirror as well (LSE and SLI). It's not enough to find a dual. First you should fall in love with. Sometimes I think socionics is a distractor. You don't pay attention to you natural instinct, just analyze somebody's functions. Most people naturally choose the best person for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritsa33
Eh, nah, all Ep types can be 7, and Fe bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
Not true. There are alot more E7 SLEs then E8 ILEs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
oh that explains the high divorce rate :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Pauluch
But i do otherwise agree with you ;)
Instinct stacking isn't exclusive property of enneagram. Most people I've talked to about instinct see instinct stacking as something wholly separate from the enneagram, although the two can easily be used in conjunction. Saying that instinct and socionics aren't "meant to be used together" just sounds like blind adherence to the status quo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
If you take the time to learn about it then you'll find it's surprisingly in depth and systematized. Even if it was the case that it's not nearly as detailed as socionics, what difference does it make?Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
I disagree, for the reasons I've been spewing out all around this forum for months now. The cats at enneagram.net would disagree as well, they've openly stated their opinion that instinct is a greater driving force among individuals than the core type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny
Yeah. With activity you can have some great resonance moments as friends. But...living with one? Hello no. Going out with one with no other IJ around? Jesus, I would always have to wait half an hour more than the confirmed time.Quote:
Originally Posted by labocat
In my experience identical relationships are a lot better than activities. For activities the real compatibility is a shared E/E or I/I axis + shared positivism/negativism. Do extraverts really want someone that burns them out like they do themselves? Do introverts really want a lazy homebody like they naturally tend to be? I mean really. Activity is just lame.
It's especially bad for democratic introverts. I see so many completely lame ESI/ILI and LII/SEI relationships, it's like both can't escape from a black hole which is at the core of their attraction between negativist-introverts. Thank god they usually end up having a dual child that balances out everything.
Activity or dual? Jon Arbuckle or Abraham Lincoln? Hm...
I was over at enneagram institute before I came here. I know the enneagram very well. Variants are useless. But I mean, if you want to believe in it, nothing wrong with that...I just hate when people try to make things unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galen
oh okay thanks for clarifying i'll keep that in mind for next timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Horny
I'm in activity relationship (probably) and it's been very good and fulfilling but I haven't been in duality relationship before. I haven't noticed overactivation so far.
However, I have also close ESTj Te(activator). She is a great person although sometimes I think she's too tough when it comes to judging people. Sometimes, when I lived with her, I felt she wanted to put me down with her jokes. She was probably jealous of my relationships with other people, she is so much concerned with her career and education. She always wants to be the best. My relationship with her is a typical activity. When we meet, we meet everyday for some period of time, then we have no contact for half a year and again :). We have a lot of fun together, we enjoy each other's company and we both now that we have a lot to give to each other.
My boyfriend is Si subtype whereas I'm a very strong Fi subtype Maybe that's why our relationship is more balanced. I feel protected and taken care of, he gives me strength and make me feel less afraid. He also makes me laugh and helps fight my anxiety (I'm not sure if he's aware of that). I wouldn't say it started like activity. I even didn't know we were dating, it took us 2 months to kiss and of course it was me who kissed him first :). He was just so nice I felt he wouldn't hurt me. It's like I felthe was by my side whenever I needed him. In relationship we had some minor problems. He thinks I'm not stable which is basically true, not because of my type but because of general anxiety I have problems with. In the beginning he was afraid I would change my mind and leave him although I had no intention to do so. Now our relationship is rather stable and accepting. He enjoys the fact that I love him and hug him and tell him how great he is and show him his good sides . I love his stability, the fact he's active and doing something all the time, industrious with a great sense of humour. :)
I also had a crush on my ISTp friend from high school. This relationship was also very easy and we understood each other very well. However, we lived in different cities and only met from time to time but we always enjoyed it. However he did nothing and I did nothing although it think he was more hesistant so we are just friends still enjoying each other's company
I've noticed that people who've had a dual best friend for a long time are better at recognizing with whom they fit together. They have a base line they can relate to. They also trust their natural style more so they can more easily attract duals even though the dual lacks experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
Just curious how you understand "activation" in the socionics context. It's not that I become a duracell rabbit around LIIs, it's more like someone has turned up the current in my brain, but it can go unnoticed by me if I don't pay attention to it happening. I had a hard time understanding why it even was called "activation" when I first read about this. It's like an internal thing and it's best noticed when you suddenly become alone after being together for some time. Then there is a sudden experience of relaxation and finding back to my natural self.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauluch
hmm there might be something to it but I always thought I'm just a private person. For me it just takes a lot of time to get used to the fact Im in a relationship or out of it. So when we started dating it was me who needed a lot of space. After 7 day holiday I was somehow relieved I could go to work although the holiday was perfect. I was just so much afraid of the fact that e verything was going so smoothly. It was totally different in my previous relationships :).
It changed with time. Now I'm used to his presence and I feel relaxed around him. However I cannot compare it with duality as I haven't been in such a relationship.
yes. or a dual parent. or sibling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowisthetime
Activity or duality? Both are very good. I'm EIE, so there are not many female LSIs...
But female SLE are truly amazing. Do u know Emma Stone? I think, she is a SLE.
[edit]
Tell me more about your experiences, please. :)
gasp! HERETIC
I don't think it's my place to sway you over to duality when it's clear you have feelings for a LII...
....and they sound strong
....and it sounds you like them as a person
....and isn't that how relationships should start?
Activity has a lot going for it too even if it doesn't have all the benefits of duality. And shouldn't you look at the person more than the dynamics of the way you are interacting? Think of it like activity will still give you what you need, just in a different way. They give you a new, interesting, calming perspective but maybe not in the complimentary 'team work' way of a dual.
Anyway I am probably the wrong person to sway you to a dual since I myself have been pretty adamant that I could see myself with an activity rather than a dual.
Activity relationships are good, but you will get exhausted and it can be explosive(for extroverts) or boring(for introverts).
When you do have problems, you will have a hard time resolving them materially and only mutual respect for each other will keep you from major issues.
The rational/irrational divide and the process/result divide can be difficult to overcome. Activity relationship are easy to start because there are shared values and a generally similar lifestyle due to shared I/E(same bold and cautious functions) however, it is stagnant.
As long as you're willing to deal with the problems of this relationship, go for it. If you two both like each other you should go for it, but I recommend finding a ILE girlfriend BFF.
Duality can be difficult to begin for many reasons, and without a lot of interaction with a dual, it can be difficult to begin these relationships as one does not really know what to expect. Your dual is kinda of a mysterious thing although fascinating, you share very little in common with this individual yet there is a connection that is tucked away in the subconscious.
One shares quadra values, process/result, rational/irrational and a few other dichotomies with their dual but in how they deal with life, it is like night and day. And it is these differences that make this a growing experience while the compatibilities allow for the relationship to be sustained.
I regard irrationality/rationality as really another quadra divide, so understanding your nature by what makes you so rational or irrational can be a significant factor when finding someone like you, who you click better with and are more comfortable with (read Jung and Socionics on j/p temperaments, ignore MBTI, etc.) People have had issues regarding duals as "opposite," to where they mistype someone outside of their quadra as their dual because they seem "different." I never had that wrong approach since I see quadras as the driving force behind everything Socionics. So regard your dual as someone just like you deep down, but with a complementary drive and focus. I mean part of being in a stable relationship is realizing you're with a different person with different perspectives, but that's really beside the point after grasping the principles of information metabolism.
Duality is better than activity. Duh.
Rationality and irrationality is obviously the big problem. Rationals tend to direct their energy towards organizational purposes and like things to be predictable; irrationals tend to direct their energy towards breaking things up and like to be spontaneous and random. This is a really basic divide that can cause a lot of strife and misunderstanding. But activity partners share their values so they are likely to communicate well and therefore good at resolving conflicts.
ESEs are not mysterious to me. At all.
Nor have I ever known an LII who found them mysterious. With ESEs, what you see is what you get, no ifs, ands, or buts.
ILEs are very, very easy to find. VI is a good method... they tend to have serpent-like faces. After a while, you'll get accustomed to picking them out.
I cannot for the life of me identify the socionic type of any female. I always imagine them as being something other than what they are. I can, however, seem to figure out men somewhat easier.
Many people here seem to see me as an Alpha NT, and I am starting to agree, although I thought I was a gamma/beta. Anyway, as I start to see myself as a Ti-LII, I am left with the problem that I cannot really identify female Alphas - especially alpha SFs. All my girlfriends would appear to be semi-duals (EIE) and mirages (LSE)! I need to build some kind of dual detector! How the hell do you find them?
ISTps are fucking hot.
Hmm... I felt like I should respond but I assume you have read alot about duality already, so you know why it is supposed to be good.
It's the only compatible relationship, really. Socionically speaking :)
So with LIIs (activation) I automatically start to produce :Fe: but it's never enough, and I never manage to cheer them up as much as I want. Then the phone rings and my LII friend answers. It's his ESE cousin, and immediately his voice changes, he gets in good spirit. But it's ok, but trying to provide creative :Fe: to LIIs is doomed to drain me. (This all is something that just happens, I usually don't think about it.)
With ILE we sometimes get into some :Fe: origie, - it feels like we are very sensitive to this - especially in the beginning, but then things even out. I stop using so much :Fe: and relax. I connect to the ILE and she can in a way control direct my :Fe:. She will get it when she needs some, but not necessarily all the time. (lol, this sounds like breast-feeding). I see this as a point when dualization starts, when the dual starts to control direct my creative function. This is of course only my own understanding of this, but that's how it feels.
Dualization is very important. If it doesn't happen, then things get stagnated and boring. There can be psychological barriers that have to be broken. Staying physically close to your dual is very important, sharing everyday life, and also possibly conflicts. It's very easy to lose a dual by simply forgetting to call them or something and then you just never meet again, they give you so much freedom. It's important to follow your instincts. Duality is a different form of attraction.
I think in the first post and this post, it shows how activity relationships are. Activity partners do their "own" thing, they're doing it in a independent fashion which isn't very feed back oriented. Their mutual quadra values and the general attractiveness of the information provided can maintain these relationships, however there will be problems integrating and coming to a balance. Duality is more about doing things together, as a whole, in a balanced fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowisthetime
That sounds scary. ._. My creative function hasn't felt controlled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowisthetime
This was my way of expressing the feeling when I can be myself in a more automatic and relaxed fashion. Not "doings" so much, but still feeling that we influence and react to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts
Ohhh that's okay then. The thought of someone being able to control when and how I use my creative was a bit odd (and a bit unlikely ;)) But I do agree with you in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowisthetime
i guess a better word would be "direct" rather than "control"
SLEs are fantastic to party with but I cannot imagine myself living with one. We would probably end up killing each other. By accident. Does this explain anything?