In which ways is Duality better than Activity?

I know activity relations are supposed to be up there on the list of satisfactory relationships (maybe 2nd or 3rd right?). What I am wondering is, do you think it is worth pursuing while already knowing that duality is superior?

Or to make it more personal: you met someone who is an activation relation and you hit it off really quickly, and you have A LOT in common, including long-term goals. This other person also has a lot of good qualities that sound good in a long term relationship- smart, stable, loving, mature and responsible, etc. This person is clear that they are interested in marriage in the future and doesn't want to wait around. But having experienced duality you are aware there is a certain something lacking in the activity relation, and that it will never be on the same scale as duality. Would you still try to foster a romantic relationship anyway? Or tell them you don't think it will worth out in the long run?

I know activity relations are good for friendships, I've had a few of them as best friends. I'm just not sure of them on the romantic front. Does anyone have successful stories of activation? Are some of you dead set on only dating your dual?

A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.

Now you know.

I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

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Originally Posted by MatthewZ

I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

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i am hoping you are right.

activity is a good one....but the difference in rationality is what starts to erode the relation on too close a distance. but overall, one of the best relations!

My experience with these has been relatively bad; the difference in temperament makes the interaction lack in smoothness. There isn't a strong incentive to keep the conversation going. I like ISFps a lot but the difference in compatibility with me between them and ESFjs is not just some marginalized detail.

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Originally Posted by jragonfly

Are some of you dead set on only dating your dual?

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Yes. After having become intimately involved with one, definitely yes. Nothing else will really cut the mustard.

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner. Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality. I also like my activity partners because we are both introverts. I have been with a dual before and one of my friends is my dual too and yeah it's comfortable, you can be with them all the time and not get bored and miss them while they're gone etc etc. But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where and their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?
Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality.

I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

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Oh, I guess that is why dual with 3rd function matching 7th function, they are more co-dependent, hence the relationship is easier.

But that 3rd function to your 8th function, to me that cause a lot of problem. I mean we all need our 7th function privately where we use it a lot. and activities gives too much polr "hits" because activity partner's polr is their 7th function.

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Originally Posted by 07490

and activities gives too much polr "hits" because activity partner's polr is their 7th function.

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Your dual would be using more of your 4th function than your activator. So you would get more polr hits from your dual than your activator, in my experience anyway. Your activator at least keeps an eye on your 3rd function unlike your dual which ignores that function and I would think we are more concerned with our 3rd than our 4th. I would get way more Fi assurance from an IEI than an EIE.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner.

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"The EIE" or "EIEs I've encountered"?

Duals are still people. Some people will manifest things you just plain don't like, or create points of incompatibility despite how forgiving you want to be, or how laissez-faire your approach to "disappointments" is. Also, descriptions of types are very bad at describing people. They're best as guidelines for spotting others, not exhaustive and precise details of traits and foibles of a given type.

But to answer your question, here's another one: if you have neither an activity partner nor a dual, why not pursue a dual?

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality.

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Nono, Role/Ignoring complementarity is beautiful. Your Dual encourages you to relax and be yourself and not worry about all the social crap/personal anxieties stacked on top of your Role function.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where

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Do they respond badly to you reacting to the drama? All relationships experience friction, increasingly so in direct proportion to intimacy. Duals sort it out, even despite momentary (or even more protracted periods!) ill sentiments.

Also, don't you Betas like intensity in your relationships? Maybe your EIE used to just start shit to get a reaction out of you?

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

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Sounds more like instinct clash than anything Socionics can account for. (Hint: I already know to avoid so-firsts. I'd die with their stupid need to be off socialising or whatever it is that they do with all those random people.)

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

Your dual would be using more of your 4th function than your activator. So you would get more polr hits from your dual than your activator, in my experience anyway. Your activator at least keeps an eye on your 3rd function unlike your dual which ignores that function and I would think we are more concerned with our 3rd than our 4th. I would get way more Fi assurance from an IEI than an EIE.

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Nah, I don't think so, Activity partners see weakness in others that they can improve on, always giving each other advice and at the same time hurting each others weak point. In healthy duality relationship, these criticism is made very lightly, in a way more accepting than if activity ever give advice on each others weak point.

Socionics.com doesn't have good rep here, but I am posting this anyway because it can't be more true.

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The other problem with these relations is that information between Activity partners always needs some adjustments. One partner may think of it as too foggy and not concrete enough, whereas for the other partner it is too unrefined. Collaboration is also difficult, because partners cannot predict each others behaviour and actions in what seem to be ordinary situations. Because of this, partners cannot rely or count on each other in full. Most of the problems that arise during Activity relationships are because one partner is always Perceiving and the other is always Judging, meaning that they live in different life rhythms.

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Although overall interaction between partners is nice and easy, when it comes to fulfilling everyday duties and matters together, partners usually meet with many problems. Instead of solving the problems, Activity partners tend to give advice to each other on how to solve these problems, often affecting each others weak points. The advice of an Activity partner is always useful as it can strengthen your weakness, but not so much that it will ever become your strength.

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Originally Posted by Brian

"The EIE" or "EIEs I've encountered"?

Duals are still people. Some people will manifest things you just plain don't like, or create points of incompatibility despite how forgiving you want to be, or how laissez-faire your approach to "disappointments" is. Also, descriptions of types are very bad at describing people. They're best as guidelines for spotting others, not exhaustive and precise details of traits and foibles of a given type.

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Yes, exactly which is why I'm saying that duality is not everything and is why I'm encouraging to not just aim for duality when they have other chances at potentially good relationships.

Following this theory of course it would make sense that duals are better for one another on paper. I'm saying reality can be different, I have got on famously with one female EIE and SO SO incredibly badly with one EIE.

Ok, let's say I have two cakes. One is super-tasty delicious and looks even better than it tastes. The other is a pretty ok cake. Cake #1 takes a while to procure the ingredients and bake, and it can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex. The other is basically straightforward. So let's actually say cake #2 is like self-bake bread. Nourishing but nothing spectacularly delicious.

You're advocating to go with the bread over the cake, because the cake can go wrong and takes a while, even despite the fact that it is entirely superior in every conceivable way.

EDIT

And so I say you're a lunatic. Then again, I should theoretically have an easy time of finding my dual, since I have a) a dating site that's pretty much advertised as being for geeky Alphas b) experience with a dual c) many platonic dual friendships giving me a wide sample of what my duals look like and d) I'll be doing a degree in holy shit NT territory. Just gotta avoid the Gamma landmines, which might be a bit complicated.

Duals have to give up control of certain areas where in the past they worked hard to control or really let wild, lose and out of control, in the absence of their duality; when that happends duality is a better match then activity. Activity relations listen and allow the other person to do what they want. Dual relations have a bit of problems letting their dual lead in appropriate situations. I've noticed new dual pairing compete, fight, argue, and look like they can easily end in their first few stages.

For my duals they have to start following my ideals.

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Originally Posted by Brian

I already know to avoid so-firsts. I'd die with their stupid need to be off socialising or whatever it is that they do with all those random people.)

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:lol: quotable!

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Originally Posted by Maritsa33

Duals have to give up control of certain areas where in the past they worked hard to control or really let wild, lose and out of control, in the absence of their duality; when that happens duality is a better match then activity. Activity relations listen and allow the other person to do what they want. Dual relations have a bit of problems letting their dual lead in appropriate situations. I've noticed new dual pairing compete, fight, argue, and look like they can easily end in their first few stages..

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yeah this is especially apparent when the persons involved aren't dualized. i.e. didn't grow up with a dual family member or best friend. I think it probably takes time to let go of those areas that you're so used to controlling.

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Originally Posted by tuturututu

A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.

Now you know.

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Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by MatthewZ

I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

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Yea I wouldn't bank everything on this theory either. The thing is I've noticed the hypothesis has already predicted quite a few of my own relationships, so I do consider it at least somewhat valid. You're right, there must be positive things about non-dual relations or else people wouldn't start them! But on the other hand, isn't the divorce rate around 45-50%? I can't help wondering if some of that can be explained with intertype relations.

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Originally Posted by Blaze

i am hoping you are right.

activity is a good one....but the difference in rationality is what starts to erode the relation on too close a distance. but overall, one of the best relations!

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I have noticed this is true in my personal experiences.

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Originally Posted by labcoat

My experience with these has been relatively bad; the difference in temperament makes the interaction lack in smoothness. There isn't a strong incentive to keep the conversation going. I like ISFps a lot but the difference in compatibility with me between them and ESFjs is not just some marginalized detail.

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Thanks I'll keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by jragonfly

You're right, there must be positive things about non-dual relations or else people wouldn't start them!

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Attraction, my friend. It's part of every human's biological programming.

You know, much like death.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner. Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality. I also like my activity partners because we are both introverts. I have been with a dual before and one of my friends is my dual too and yeah it's comfortable, you can be with them all the time and not get bored and miss them while they're gone etc etc. But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where and their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

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Originally Posted by shakealittle

Yes, exactly which is why I'm saying that duality is not everything and is why I'm encouraging to not just aim for duality when they have other chances at potentially good relationships.

Following this theory of course it would make sense that duals are better for one another on paper. I'm saying reality can be different, I have got on famously with one female EIE and SO SO incredibly badly with one EIE.

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Well I appreciate your positive thinking!

In my case, I have had lots of experience with activity, I seem to attract them or be drawn to them somehow. My mother is my activity, maybe that has something to do with it seeing as I grew up "activated" instead of "dualized". But since I lacked experience with duals most of my life I never missed it...until recently when I met a dual and it was fabulous. Now I've started to have doubts about everything else but.

I see you're point though, there are other factors that come into play in real life. I met someone once who may have been my dual, but due to differences in age, culture, and intelligence there was no way it ever would have worked out.

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Originally Posted by Brian

Ok, let's say I have two cakes. One is super-tasty delicious and looks even better than it tastes. The other is a pretty ok cake. Cake #1 takes a while to procure the ingredients and bake, and it can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex. The other is basically straightforward. So let's actually say cake #2 is like self-bake bread. Nourishing but nothing spectacularly delicious.

You're advocating to go with the bread over the cake, because the cake can go wrong and takes a while, even despite the fact that it is entirely superior in every conceivable way.

EDIT

And so I say you're a lunatic. Then again, I should theoretically have an easy time of finding my dual, since I have a) a dating site that's pretty much advertised as being for geeky Alphas b) experience with a dual c) many platonic dual friendships giving me a wide sample of what my duals look like and d) I'll be doing a degree in holy shit NT territory. Just gotta avoid the Gamma landmines, which might be a bit complicated.

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Ok. But if the cake "can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex," then it wouldn't necessarily be "entirely superior in every conceivable way"?

Point taken though. I don't like the idea of settling for silver when I could have gotten gold. At least that's how I look at it. But I know some people that would settle, and be ok with it.

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Originally Posted by Brian

Attraction, my friend. It's part of every human's biological programming.

You know, much like death.

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You mean physical? I don't know if that would account for everything, there are some people that are definitely attractive but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with them!

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Originally Posted by 07490

Nah, I don't think so, Activity partners see weakness in others that they can improve on, always giving each other advice and at the same time hurting each others weak point. In healthy duality relationship, these criticism is made very lightly, in a way more accepting than if activity ever give advice on each others weak point.

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Originally Posted by 07490

Socionics.com doesn't have good rep here, but I am posting this anyway because it can't be more true.

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This is exactly what I have experienced in all activity relations. After thinking about it I know this type very well, it's the dual type I am unsure of. So now I'm left wondering, about any negatives commonly found in duality...

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Originally Posted by jragonfly

You mean physical? I don't know if that would account for everything, there are some people that are definitely attractive but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with them!

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Well, when you're infatuated with someone, you don't see them for who they are; they become this mystical magical fantastical creature who's absolutely wonderful in every conceivable possible way who will make you happy forever etc etc etc.

If you want the Socionics angle, some people are deceptively Dual-like, enough to trick a brain distracted by the chemical Hiroshima that is infatuation. Even then, some Duals are not for you, but it all seems so wonderful that you just let fairly critical things fly.

This is something men have to deal with especially, unfortunately. My only advice would be to get out there, screw up a bit (because you and I are blessed with more reflectiveness than a house o' mirrors, so we don't have to screw up a lot), and learn.

I think the best thing to do is just go for it, in the case of attraction, and try and stop and listen to any voice niggling in the back of your head that something is up before making any binding commitments. If you're sitting around in a situation where nobody's caught your eye, then yes, don't settle for silver when you could have gold. It's more elusive, but exponentially more precious and valuable.

Anyway, to close, I'll comment that I would imagine all of the dual bashing comes from periods of dissatisfaction or frustration that naturally occur within relationships; either that or as a result of personal mistyping or mistyping of the supposed duals (for example, we had one XIE who had himself as an IEE--no wonder he thought SLIs were so atrocious!)

My purely empirical / observational note is that activity relations work well when they're between aristocract introverts (thus, positivist introverts - ISTj / INFp and ISTp / INFj). Democratic introverts (thus, negativist introverts) will wear each other out, ISF types don't seem to be tailored for INT types - often these relationships might even last a lifetime, however the lack of spark / understanding is obvious. Democratic extraverts (positivist extraverts) become too wild when paired, furthermore they generally think of themselves as being the coolest shit around, thus they might naturally repel each other / sense that the other isn't complementary. Aristocratic extraverts (negativist extraverts) tend to become explosive when paired, relationships might last if they enjoy quarreling / have sadomasochistic tendencies, yet they're likely to lead to abuse on the long term.

With my activity friends, I find that we frequently run out of things to talk about or conversation to make if we don't have a common interest or a shared focus to discuss. With my LSI friend, I remember when we were kids and I would sleep over at his house, we would always reach a point where he was tired of providing Se for me, and I was tired of providing Fe for him, and we would both retreat into our non-matching introverted pursuits, neither one annoying the other, but nether one really contributing to the other's enjoyment, either, which just made me think, "why am I not at my own house in my own bed?"

Obviously, if you had absolutely no capacity for communication with a dual, like you spoke completely different languages or something, this would eventually happen even with a dual. But I think duality is much more effective than activity---especially with introvert pairs---at providing an inherent source of interaction, as in, the duality itself keeps you interested even when you run out of things to really talk about. There's something about the flow of duality that makes it so that you can't ever really run out of ways to interact in the way that you do with activity pairs.

I think the problem with extroverted activity relations (or perhaps just extroverted aristocratic activity as FDG says) is that there's too much motion and not enough substance and the problem with introverted activity relations is that there's a lot of substance, but both partners get tired of communicating that substance to one another. The extroverts want someone to calm them down and the introverts want someone to charge them up. But of course, with activity relations, it takes much longer for this to happen than with most other non-duality relations, and of course, there's lots of important non-socionics factors like length of interaction, closeness of relationship, type of interaction, etc. If you're activity partners and you're working as writer and director on a major hollywood movie, yeah, you're probably going to have plenty to talk about, and you may still be more interested in talking with your activity about the movie than talking with your dual about her cat, lol.

if they are a good person, go for it.


the amount of people you've got a chance at real happiness with is slim.

I think if you know socionics, that can even help you more, when it comes to realizing energy patterns and what someone else is subconsciously looking for.

Relationships, just like sports, are not played 'on paper' or according to theory or statistics.


I've been subconsciously thinking that duals are what to aim for, but for myself, and knowing my personality and likings, I would also consider an activity partner or even a very mature conflictor - because I've had great relationships with INFps, to be honest. But only some of them - based on similarities that are OUTSIDE of socionics.

I'm hot for NF women, especially delta NFs.

TOO much extratim and pushing against my initiatives bothers me, but, if you find someone who has the right mixture of things, then, so be it.

I'm particularly curious about IEE-Fi and LSE-Te, at present (or whatever my subtype is). I wonder if for an activity relation, more "complementary" subtypes would be more appealing, as it would sort of play more towards the rationality difference. IDK.

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Originally Posted by tuturututu

A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.

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:thumbsup:


Overall, though, I agree w Numbers and Brian. Over time duality is not only more smooth; it's also more comfortable and pleasant -- in activity relations, the difference in temperament gets to be a problem if/when you get too close.

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Originally Posted by Ryu

I'm particularly curious about IEE-Fi and LSE-Te, at present (or whatever my subtype is). I wonder if for an activity relation, more "complementary" subtypes would be more appealing, as it would sort of play more towards the rationality difference. IDK.

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Yeah, complementary subtypes probably help. Also, maturity of both people [although as you said earlier, that's always true]. Really, I think maturity and patience probably come into play in activity relations bc sometimes it takes a lot to put up w the difference in temperaments. If one or both are prone to temper tantrums and being generally impatient and/or emotionally childlike, things can go badly. [This is from my experience w LSEs... they can be *awesome* but they can also suck... like all types, to be fair :p]

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Originally Posted by FDG

My purely empirical / observational note is that activity relations work well when they're between aristocract introverts (thus, positivist introverts - ISTj / INFp and ISTp / INFj). Democratic introverts (thus, negativist introverts) will wear each other out, ISF types don't seem to be tailored for INT types - often these relationships might even last a lifetime, however the lack of spark / understanding is obvious. Democratic extraverts (positivist extraverts) become too wild when paired, furthermore they generally think of themselves as being the coolest shit around, thus they might naturally repel each other / sense that the other isn't complementary. Aristocratic extraverts (negativist extraverts) tend to become explosive when paired, relationships might last if they enjoy quarreling / have sadomasochistic tendencies, yet they're likely to lead to abuse on the long term.

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This is very interesting.

Read On:

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...5_JwtKRkR031vg

Is it?

What exactly does the author mean?

Comment.

duals, semi duals, and illusionaries kinda correct each other. in a way you think the other person is kinda fucked up....yet you love and appreciate them. these relationships are on a corrective course.

with activity, you basically don't see anything wrong with them, they really can do no wrong. i def feel this way about any esfj i've been close to. so maybe what she is saying is that because of this, there is more support and loyalty between activity partners, whereas duals tend to see where the other person is flawed.

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Originally Posted by Blaze

duals, semi duals, and illusionaries kinda correct each other. in a way you think the other person is kinda fucked up....yet you love and appreciate them. these relationships are on a corrective course.

with activity, you basically don't see anything wrong with them, they really can do no wrong. i def feel this way about any esfj i've been close to. so maybe what she is saying is that because of this, there is more support and loyalty between activity partners, whereas duals tend to see where the other person is flawed.

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Really? cause i thought that was supposed to be the case with duality. . .that duals dont see each other's flaws as flaws really.

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Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

Really? cause i thought that was supposed to be the case with duality. . .that duals dont see each other's flaws as flaws really.

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yeah theoretically duals are supposed to overlook your flaws and i think they do. but i was thinking more about real relations not the theory and i came back to it again and again....with esfj, i really don't see anything wrong with them. my my dual, semi dual or illusionary, i kinda do see stuff that's wrong and want to help them correct those problems. i see it coming at me as well from duals, semi duals, and illusionaries. it's the thing that energizes the relationship, this love hate, push-pull ultimately forgiving passionate relationship. hmmmmmm.

The idea behind Duality is that you see things, you just don't pass judgement on them being negative or outright bad things when it's your Dual. Activity just gives you this sense of discreteness and normalness.

I see what you guys are saying.

Also today i had this flash of insight:

With a dual, you get psychologically close enough that you not only see things that others may not, but also you feel comfortable criticizing (and you end up doing it in a way that makes the dual think "hmmm, yeah that's true i should work on that"). I guess that's how duals grow together.

With an activity, it's less close. Like someone said, it's like two independent people being good friends, but staying separate. Which isn't bad either, necessarily. I think though that problems would be more likely to simmer and perhaps more likelihood for passive aggression, no?

Assuming my insight is correct, that is. . .

yes, activity relations are very strong, and easy to begin because, in my case, ISTp's don't have the same hang ups that ESTj's have, which is waiting a long time to be sure about the person before they pursue the relationship, so these relations start fast and with ease.

I'm not sure more loyal but activity relationships are a lot easier to start and maintain, especially friendships.

I can't easily start relationships with the SEI's I know because of all sort of fidelity issues and jealousies and intimacy start crossing our heads and eyes as we talk, and it's like everyone is looking at me and I get shy.

With my dual it's more like a moral imperative to get as close as possible.

The author seems to be basically saying your activation will always support you and by offering support activation tend to be more loyal to one another.
For instance if you found yourself in an embarrasing situation your activation partner would offer immediate help when and where you needed it without you asking them nor would they expect anything in return. Complement is always good but not always supportive in the same manner. In my opinion the author is right.

Alpha examples: Extroverted intuition is an unconscious function within the ESE pysche but extroverted intuition is a conscious function for ILE. Metaphorically there is a door that ILE enter through all the time but ESE are completely oblivious to. ILE can basically show them the door and get them to act in new ways.

In my opinion, LII do not have the same effect due to the nature of their personality as introverts and ESE personality as extroverts.
An ESE would want more objectivity from an LII to follow their actions. A ILE can present a more appealing offer to act by presenting it more objectively, thus appealing to the extroverted nature of a ESE. LII can be objective in an extroverted sense and prompt a ESE to act but this occurs spontaneously.

Introverted thinking is a conscious function within the LII pysche but introverted thinking is a unconscious function for SEI. LII have excellent analytical ability and can explain natural phenomena to SEI with ease and in great length and what SEI love is to be given the time to share their thoughts especially to such a proficient thinker such as LII (and they'll love you for it!!!*tip to all you ILE).

In my opinion, ILE do have the ability to analyze as excellently as LII, however, they do not have the patience to listen to people and help them think through their thoughts and that includes SEI. They can perform quiet acts of introversion in the sense of listening to a SEI but this occurs spontaneously.

Because ESE can turn to ILE regularly for support with their conscious functions and vice versa, they are loyal to one another. Because SEI can turn to LII regularly for support with their conscious function and vice versa, they are loyal to one another. In a duality, spontaneity feels nice but does not merit loyality to the same degree.

To put it into context: your a SEI and your having a conversation at a dinner table with your alpha friends. The ESE seems to argue your point. The ILE seems interested in making their own point. The LII asks you to elaborate your point further so as to make yourself fully understood. The ESE and ILE listen for a short while but lose interest and start their own conversation. Throughout the course of the night though you may drift from the LII you have an unspoken bond that you can always approach them at any given moment. Though you may always find the ILE attractive in some sense, but their interest in what you have to say may vary.

Wow these were all really good posts, thanks, it really did help.

In my personal case I and the other person in question are negativist introverts and I could definitely sense the lack of a spark and possible trouble in the future, plus the fact that I gradually feel worn down by them after awhile and need my own space.

On the other hand we do get along really well and have tons in common, so I've concluded that for now there's nothing wrong with an activity relationship if there are no duals around. BUT, if I ever meet a dual that looks promising I am so jumping on that bandwagon!

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Originally Posted by jragonfly

On the other hand we do get along really well and have tons in common, so I've concluded that for now there's nothing wrong with an activity relationship if there are no duals around. BUT, if I ever meet a dual that looks promising I am so jumping on that bandwagon!

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caution! there is the possibility your activity can meet their dual too. Maybe that explains the divorce rate, then again isn't the marriage rate high as well. Remarring is fairly common. If two people wed that is an increase in the rate of marriage. If they divorce that is an increase in the divorce rate. If they remarry is that an increase in marriage (or rate or remarriage). So if two people marry, divorce and remarry that is 2 marriages and 1 divorce.

very good. you must have gotten an A in math. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redbaron

very good. you must have gotten an A in math. lol

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Thanks for not taking me seriously on this one as that was the online equivalent of thinking out loud.

:whistle: :lol: :8*

14 years of bliss and 2 kids later, my HOT ISFj wife and I are still together. Never a dull moment, lots of fun. Laughing at some of the predictions of doom from an activity relationship. Such as: "ISF types don't seem to be tailored for INT types - often these relationships might even last a lifetime, however the lack of spark / understanding is obvious.". REALLY. I beg to differ on that one. :lol:

There is some truth to the socionics.com description about different life rythms (p vs j), but it also makes it sound like a death knell when that's hardly the case.

Got questions, ask.

Wow, I didn't realize how much people used the intertype relations to rule their romances.

[/sarcasm]

Not that I have much experience. I just didn't realize how much people used it.

My activity relation seems to be capable of very intense displays of loyalty but that may be because they have inferior Fe. When their feelings do come through it is very intense and so shows of loyalty are intense also. This may only be the case only for LSIs and LIIs though due to both having that inferior Fe.

I'm thinking that the author is picking up on propensity of activity relationships to do more and talk less. For me activity, duality, and mirage rank like this:
mirage - prefer to talk to each other, end up talking a lot but doing little
duality - talk some, do some, it's intermittent
activity - prefer to do things but talk little, talking get tiring

So activity is like the opposite end of mirage relation. The author may be mis-interpreting the activity partner's greater readiness to help with a deed rather than a word as greater loyalty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

you dont have to think of reasons why an IEE-LSE relationship would work well. Activity is a GREAT relationship, much easier to start than duality, and a very attractive and nice dynamic. I know that when i'm with an LSE (even platonically) we find each other so interesting that we talk and talk and talk. I am very fond of them and there are some LSEs i would most certainly consider dating. Sometimes i wonder whether i should bother with duality at all, as my activity partners are so awesome! My point is that duality isn't the ONLY successful intertype for relationships. In fact, duality IME so far has been somewhat unattainable.

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This post inspired me to make this thread, since I've been wanting to make it for a while now; I was talking with a certain INFp on this forum in private and he told me he preffered LSIs to SLEs. I personally like SLEs better than LSIs. Note that this isnt a discussion so much on theoritical compatabilty; duality is theoritically the best relaion, regardless of like or dislike. Thats not the point. Im wondering which one you guys like better, and possibly why(share experiences).

I wouldn't want an IEE. They talk too much and are wishy-washy. They also take offense easily and would be difficult to live with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Director Abbie

I wouldn't want an IEE. They talk too much and are wishy-washy. They also take offense easily and would be difficult to live with.

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your dad

I can imagine both relationships on paper working out swimmingly. There have been several ESTjs out there who I've had greater interest in getting to know than a handful of ISTps I can recall. It all depends on the individual's emotional/mental health though, as a psychotic or misanthropic dual will obviously warrant much less positive interest than a happy activator.

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. :oops: My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. :p SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agarina

he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard.

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That's not LSE-related. We like to be respected.

I think both should work reasonably well. I have a good friend who is IEE and married to an LSE. Their only ongoing problem seems to be that she is a bit of a clutterbug and he likes everything to be very orderly. Oh, and she is much more laid back as far as discipline of children goes and he likes more discipline than that. But overall they seem to get along very well, and those kinds of differences can be type and temperament related, but can also be not related to socionics at all.

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Originally Posted by Director Abbie

That's not LSE-related. We like to be respected.

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Not all LSEs are like that, but (at least in my own experience) a fair number of them are, especially individuals with relatively low IQ. I think my granpa's behaviour often reflected the weak Fe&Ni. Here's a concrete example:

I was 14 years old when I had a confirmation party (a sort of maturation rite) and was playing Play Station with some friends in my room when my granpa suddenly came in. He spotted my mp3 player on the table and asked if it was a hearing aid and instantly started to bemoan my poor hearing. He completely ignored all objection and said things like "it is nothing to be ashamed of" and that my parents should take a better care of me, not let me listen to loud music etc. Knowing him I decided the best tactic was to agree, since I was in the middle of the PS game and my friends were all trying to hold their laughter. Unfortunately that didn't stop him, as he then decided to exhibit his own hearing aid and all its great features. He even promised to buy me a similar one, since it was the best model available or something. My friends thought this was all hilariously funny, but I only felt embarrassed and frustrated. Fortunately my mom (who used to work as an IT expert :lol:) had heard the conversation and came to save me by asking my granpa to install something on her computer. He may sound like a dotty old man, but at that time he was still working, had his driver's licence etc..

OK I realise this is an extreme example, but similar things have happened with many LSEs I know.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...uality-romance

Activity <3
That was written in june, so we had been together for just a couple of months, but now it has been 8 months, and everything that he wrote is still true.

I think activity and duality both work very well - they are just different. The main area that duality wins out is how effortless it is, the function you most naturally use complements the function your dual most naturally uses. However, a lot of the things that seem off-putting about duality aren't present in activity - I'm talking mostly about the demonstrative function here I suppose. Your dual's demonstrative is your activity's ignoring (which is also your own PoLR). Your activity partner is less aware of your PoLR but is more aware of your role function. (I can't find any place that explores this more, probably because of the huge emphasis on duality being "the best" but it is something that I think is worth looking into)
Many of the supposed downfalls of activity are things I have yet to experience, and while I see how in theory they COULD be a problem, in reality they aren't. Overactivation, for example, has never occurred; I don't feel bored or repelled by his base function. While I do see that I don't appreciate it AS MUCH as Se, I never feel like I'm getting an excess amount of it. Most descriptions say the main problem is the j/p differences. Function wise, I would say they are actually referring to your own creative function being your partner's suggestive and vice versa. I wouldn't really describe this as a factor for incompatibility, the way the descriptions do, it's just a slight difference between duality and activation. And as he mentioned in his thread that I will mention again - all it takes to overcome that difference is a more conscious use of your creative function and it has a huge payoff. It's like getting the best of both worlds.

(I'd also like to add that beta introvert activity partners is possibly a better option than either of the pair's duals. EIEs are often really neurotic and SLEs are often cheaters, while IEIs and LSIs are typically more sane... Of course this is just generally, there are plenty of exceptions)







Type related reasons that I like LSI> SLE
Stable and reliable
Very committed
Able to control self
Comes to conclusions carefully
Would make a better father


SLEs are very fun and impulsive, but when I was dating one, there was this underlying thought, asking "how long will this last?" The SEE was similar and even though he was much more trustworthy than the SLE, he was too careless. Ultimately what matters most to me is love, and my closest relationships. Se bases just seem too chaotic to value the same thing, unless they are older. Or perhaps they do value it but value something else (like being successful) much more. LSIs are much more safe and stable, and I think an LSI is more likely (more likely than an SLE, that is) to share my values, or will at least respect them more.




On a more personal level, it's probably obvious that I'm very happy in this relationship. I don't mean to sound so cheesy and over sentimental but Peter has helped me so much through many personal obstacles, some of them I wasn't even consciously aware of, and I am eternally grateful for everything he has done for me.

Assuming I'm ILE, I'd go with a mirage rather than activators.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galen

I can imagine both relationships on paper working out swimmingly.

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Same for me, I remember one EII I had a very good connection with, even though we didn't know each other that well. But our ways led us in different directions and we lost contact. I guess the activity relationship is easier to start and sustain. (At least I'd expect that if my partner was introverted.) But duality might "offer" more in a way of experiences and insights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galen

It all depends on the individual's emotional/mental health though, as a psychotic or misanthropic dual will obviously warrant much less positive interest than a happy activator.

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That too. :thumbsup:

Dual. LSI intimidate me abit for some reason.

dual is always better... no contest. i think some people here are confused.

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Originally Posted by labocat

dual is always better... no contest. i think some people here are confused.

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Chinese eunechs think you're a prick. :reallymad:

since there's only one person you can speak for i guess this means we've all just learned something about you.

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Originally Posted by labocat

we've all just learned something about you.

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Considering that this is about penises, you seem confused.

we're not having a conversation. bye.

Ok, quit posting in my thread then. Glad to see you go. :)

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Originally Posted by octo

SLEs are tiring - I feel like I have to always be "on" around them, ready to go out and socialise or be interesting. But I feel like it's something I ought to do more anyway, and they help with that... I just wish it weren't so hard. My bf is stressful since he's E7 and an SLE-E7 has to be babysat so he doesn't throw his phone on the ground and break it, or jump onto a trampoline and cut open his chin, or buy expensive food you don't know how to cook, or win a motorbike on eBay, or starts telling offensive jokes around deltas and thinks the correct response to getting the wrong reaction is to turn up the offensiveness (real life examples). I assume an LSI would be less likely to do these things. He's like a kid in a candy store when he has money. But I'm guessing that's a problem specific to SLE E7s. Fi-PoLR is cuter to me than Ne-PoLR.

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I've come across SLE-Se 7w8's like that, they seem kind of immature for me & high energy, but they're gr8 company nontheless. I don't like the deltas I do know irl so I might sit back and enjoy watching them take offense to those jokes:content:. I think i have more of a taste for SLE 9w8-ti's though, calmer and much more risk avoidant..good with money:P it might take awhile to figure out they're SLE's; Christiano Ronaldo is a possible example. I don't feel as pressured to socialize n stuff, I do feel that pressure to keep their interest though, cos they're clever & think they have everything and everyone figured out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenna

EIEs are often really neurotic and SLEs are often cheaters, while IEIs and LSIs are typically more sane... Of course this is just generally, there are plenty of exceptions)

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haha truth.

But overall, I think this is more about the individuals and less about types. I think either could work well for a long-term relationship, assuming the persons in question are healthy and want the same things in life/are at the same stage, similar values, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Diam0nd

I've come across SLE-Se 7w8's like that, they seem kind of immature for me & high energy, but they're gr8 company nontheless..

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*nods*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by octo

LSIs are more comfortable - they like the same activities (ha, see what I did there?) as I do - my LSI friend and I will go to IKEA together and spend hours squealing over cheap stuff, and gossiping while cleaning the kitchen, or talking about books and movies, whereas I'd imagine that my SLE friends would want to leave and do something "fun" to them, ASAP. LSIs don't have the magnetic "pull" SLEs (and SEEs and ILEs) do though, so I kind of hang out with them sporadically and neither of us really feel the need to meet up more regularly, whereas SLEs are the first place I go when I'm bored.

SLEs are tiring - I feel like I have to always be "on" around them, ready to go out and socialise or be interesting. But I feel like it's something I ought to do more anyway, and they help with that... I just wish it weren't so hard. My bf is stressful since he's E7 and an SLE-E7 has to be babysat so he doesn't throw his phone on the ground and break it, or jump onto a trampoline and cut open his chin, or buy expensive food you don't know how to cook, or win a motorbike on eBay, or starts telling offensive jokes around deltas and thinks the correct response to getting the wrong reaction is to turn up the offensiveness (real life examples). I assume an LSI would be less likely to do these things. He's like a kid in a candy store when he has money. But I'm guessing that's a problem specific to SLE E7s. Fi-PoLR is cuter to me than Ne-PoLR.

Fear of cheating doesn't seem to be a problem with him, or with some other SLEs I know, so I'm not sure it's as common as I thought when I first read the SLE descriptions and decided I would never go out with an SLE :lol:

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love this post. totally agree. I do think that once SLEs find someone they're really smitten with, there is NO WAY they will cheat. I've known several to remain very faithful for years/lifetimes.

(laughed so hard at the bold... I know an SLE E-7 who's the exact same way and he's over 50 years old!!)

Activity feels better in the initial stages, dual is more long-haul.

Dual is a type of person you at first think was 'boring' or 'this doesn't seem AT ALL like a person that's good for me!' then slowly over time, when/if enough factors align, you grow to feel indescribable feelings of ideal love. A deep level of compatibility that's always interesting but also, somehow, always feels safe.

Duals are ego-breakers, they work on the level of True Self/Body whereas, Activity operates more on the level of pure mind, so they are going to be more initially stimulating.

Unless you were super good at socionics and understood your mind so well (and even then this may not be true) you might be able to love your dual at first sight but chances are, it operates exactly as the textbook says it does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agarina

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. :oops: My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. :p SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

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I agree with how you describe LSE, but unlike you I have a lot to offer to them. That's what duality is about.

Not type related:

Types being coined as "cheaters." Any type can cheat, especially people who don't value what they have and run after their physical parts. Look, Arnold and Maria are duals and he's LSE and he cheated. I call him immature, ego centric and ungrateful of a good relationship. But there are assholes like him in any dual pair. He's trying to get her back now. OF COURSE HE IS. HE'S AN IDIOT AND F'D UP HIS RELATIONSHIP. HE SHOULD BE BENDING OVER BACKWARDS FOR THE STUPID ACTIONS HE TOOK.

I think cheating is usually more animalistic desires and less about appreciation.


Maritsa, does Arnold know you feel this way? He's probably devastated by your loss of friendship.
Oh I'm just kidding, he's an UNAPPRECIATIVE SON OF A BITCH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agarina

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. :oops: My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. :p SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

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This is a common complaint I keep hearing about duality. While in theory it may be a good match, duals tend to be from completely different worlds and have very different/alien perspectives. Of course it all depends on the individuals in question, but if they don't already have some sort of common ground between them (religion, politics, hobbies, etc) then the two will likely fly right by each other without having any interest piqued.

ILIs are excellent, and they're generally pretty forgiving and understanding when it comes to be being bad at staying in regular contact and all; when they need me big time though, I'm there. I'm gonna help a Te-ILI dude brawl, it's gonna rule! I'm gonna do push-ups with him; he's a big dude, so he can use his knees as a fulcrum while I match him with full-on push-ups while balanced on my hands and toes with my back straight and all that; also gotta run with him around the block some so he doesn't get winded as easily; not too thrilled with the snow being an obstacle, but we can work it...

LIEs are wonderful, but we're even worse with contacting each other somehow! We're both pretty high on the energy, and we have great conversations; the conversations may seem dry as hell from an outside perspective, but they're absolutely excellent and we don't have to worry about irreparably pissing each other off or boring the hell out of each other (this also goes for ILIs). They also seem to really like the food I make, often me and them are the only ones that will go near it...

The relations are similar, yet distinctly different, and both excellent; I wouldn't choose one if it meant the dismissal of the other... also, they're both pretty receptive in general towards the heavy metal stuff I'm into lots (with the Te-ILI's musical tastes orbiting around a central point of White Zombie's Astro Creep 2000 album, and the Te-LIE being into shit tons of power metal)...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hydrangea

I think cheating is usually more animalistic desires and less about appreciation.


Maritsa, does Arnold know you feel this way? He's probably devastated by your loss of friendship.
Oh I'm just kidding, he's an UNAPPRECIATIVE SON OF A BITCH.

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Of course he is, since Maritsa is more saintly and perfect than everyone else, and not at all superiority-complexed and condescending.

*cough*

/Sarcasm

I think stackings matter a shit ton..

I love sx/sp and sp/sx... So I think that can override somewhat duality vs activity

Who wants an activity partner, ewww.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

Activity feels better in the initial stages, dual is more long-haul.

Dual is a type of person you at first think was 'boring' or 'this doesn't seem AT ALL like a person that's good for me!' then slowly over time, when/if enough factors align, you grow to feel indescribable feelings of ideal love. A deep level of compatibility that's always interesting but also, somehow, always feels safe.

Duals are ego-breakers, they work on the level of True Self/Body whereas, Activity operates more on the level of pure mind, so they are going to be more initially stimulating.

Unless you were super good at socionics and understood your mind so well (and even then this may not be true) you might be able to love your dual at first sight but chances are, it operates exactly as the textbook says it does.

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Also, prior experience with duals puts you ahead of the game in recognizing duality too, as mentioned in http://www.socionics.us/practice/duality.shtml scroll down to where it says "attracting duals". However, if the dual isn't recognizing you, because of their lack of experience with duals or what have you, that could be hella frustrating.


One thing i dont get though, BnD is what do you mean by "pure mind" in reference to the level activity works on...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScarlettLux

I think stackings matter a shit ton..

I love sx/sp and sp/sx... So I think that can override somewhat duality vs activity

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Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it a hundred thousand more times if need be: instinct stacking > socionics.

Quote:

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One thing i dont get though, BnD is what do you mean by "pure mind" in reference to the level activity works on...?

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IME A dual isn't really able to relate to you psychologically. They are more your physical protectors. There's the world inside your head and then there's the world that actually exists. An activity will understand your thinking processes better, your ego, how you think and the personality you present yourself (latin for mask).

I believe both can be good relationships providing there is positive mutual attraction :). I know it's after Christmas but isn't it love that counts most ?:) And our ability to compromise and give and take :). Every relationship can go better or worse but of course similar values like in duality, activity and a few others have good possibilities:). It's a bit different with particular duals and particular activators. People are more than a type in socionics but a matching type is a good start if you know what I mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galen

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it a hundred thousand more times if need be: instinct stacking > socionics.

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This is socionics, not the enneagram. If they were meant to be used together, they would be. There is no way anything in the enneagram is more detailed and indepth than socionics. And instinctual variants matter much less, if at all, than the core types.

socionics is much better for describing relationships between people. i think enneagram as a system is pretty wishy-washy and arbitrary compared to socionics, but used in conjunction, enneagram may be useful to help describe differences between socionics identicals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

If they were meant to be used together, they would be.

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No offense meant, but If everybody thought like that we'd still be living in caves. ;)

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Originally Posted by Agarina

No offense meant, but If everybody thought like that we'd still be living in caves. ;)

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Heh.

Okay then you'd agree that MBTI is just as useful as socionics/enneagram? Why not combine all three.

I think as far as compatibility

Socionics > instinct stacking > enneagram

Socionics is the most refined form of compatibility, that of communication

Instinct stacking has a lot of relation to lifestyle choices and areas of comfort, so it would lead to some variants to be apart a lot of the time and other to be together more, could be good and bad.

Enneagram says not much about compatibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

Okay then you'd agree that MBTI is just as useful as socionics/enneagram? Why not combine all three.

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Nope, but I agree with David Hume on his Guillotine: "One cannot derive an "ought" from an "is"

I believe, like Glam said, that the stackings/enneagram types can be useful in describing the differences between socionics identicals.

I think enneagram effects relations at least a little.

Imo I get along better with e8 SLE than e7 SLE, I actually think I get along least with 7s (though im unsure about some types in comparison). With 7 there is a lot of attraction and they have a way to make everything more exciting. It's only when we become closer that there are problems.

Quote:

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Twos will increasingly want to get serious about the relationship just as the Seven begins to feel bored or that the relationship has gotten heavy and unfulfilling. Twos can thus begin to see the Seven as untrustworthy, a playboy (or playgirl) who is selfishly leading them on with no intention of tying the knot. Sevens can begin to see Twos as possessive and manipulative, playing on their guilt or insecurities to make sure the Seven does not stray.

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That's been especially true in my experience.



The only problem I see with sx/sp and sp/sx being ideal (at least between peter and I) is that the sx dominant (me) craves intimacy at a much greater volume than the sp (him). He seems to prefer a little one on one time with a lot of alone time whereas I prefer the opposite. It's not a huge deal and of course we compromise but it's one noticeable thing. Other than that it's very good.

Duality by far is AMAZING.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenna

I think enneagram effects relations at least a little.

Imo I get along better with e8 SLE than e7 SLE, I actually think I get along least with 7s (though im unsure about some types in comparison). With 7 there is a lot of attraction and they have a way to make everything more exciting. It's only when we become closer that there are problems.

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That's because e7 SLEs are ILE.

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Originally Posted by Maritsa33

Duality by far is AMAZING.

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What is amazing, it to love somebody who loves you back and respects you and your values. I'd say it's the easiest among the members of the same quadra. But I've seen happy identical SEI couples (a few) and mirror as well (LSE and SLI). It's not enough to find a dual. First you should fall in love with. Sometimes I think socionics is a distractor. You don't pay attention to you natural instinct, just analyze somebody's functions. Most people naturally choose the best person for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

That's because e7 SLEs are ILE.

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Eh, nah, all Ep types can be 7, and Fe bases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

That's because e7 SLEs are ILE.

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Not true. There are alot more E7 SLEs then E8 ILEs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pauluch

What is amazing, it to love somebody who loves you back and respects you and your values. I'd say it's the easiest among the members of the same quadra. But I've seen happy identical SEI couples (a few) and mirror as well (LSE and SLI). It's not enough to find a dual. First you should fall in love with. Sometimes I think socionics is a distractor. You don't pay attention to you natural instinct, just analyze somebody's functions. Most people naturally choose the best person for them.

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oh that explains the high divorce rate :p


But i do otherwise agree with you ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

This is socionics, not the enneagram. If they were meant to be used together, they would be.

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Instinct stacking isn't exclusive property of enneagram. Most people I've talked to about instinct see instinct stacking as something wholly separate from the enneagram, although the two can easily be used in conjunction. Saying that instinct and socionics aren't "meant to be used together" just sounds like blind adherence to the status quo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

There is no way anything in the enneagram is more detailed and indepth than socionics.

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If you take the time to learn about it then you'll find it's surprisingly in depth and systematized. Even if it was the case that it's not nearly as detailed as socionics, what difference does it make?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horny

And instinctual variants matter much less, if at all, than the core types.

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I disagree, for the reasons I've been spewing out all around this forum for months now. The cats at enneagram.net would disagree as well, they've openly stated their opinion that instinct is a greater driving force among individuals than the core type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labocat

dual is always better... no contest. i think some people here are confused.

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Yeah. With activity you can have some great resonance moments as friends. But...living with one? Hello no. Going out with one with no other IJ around? Jesus, I would always have to wait half an hour more than the confirmed time.

In my experience identical relationships are a lot better than activities. For activities the real compatibility is a shared E/E or I/I axis + shared positivism/negativism. Do extraverts really want someone that burns them out like they do themselves? Do introverts really want a lazy homebody like they naturally tend to be? I mean really. Activity is just lame.
It's especially bad for democratic introverts. I see so many completely lame ESI/ILI and LII/SEI relationships, it's like both can't escape from a black hole which is at the core of their attraction between negativist-introverts. Thank god they usually end up having a dual child that balances out everything.

Activity or dual? Jon Arbuckle or Abraham Lincoln? Hm...

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Originally Posted by Galen

Instinct stacking isn't exclusive property of enneagram. Most people I've talked to about instinct see instinct stacking as something wholly separate from the enneagram, although the two can easily be used in conjunction. Saying that instinct and socionics aren't "meant to be used together" just sounds like blind adherence to the status quo.


If you take the time to learn about it then you'll find it's surprisingly in depth and systematized. Even if it was the case that it's not nearly as detailed as socionics, what difference does it make?


I disagree, for the reasons I've been spewing out all around this forum for months now. The cats at enneagram.net would disagree as well, they've openly stated their opinion that instinct is a greater driving force among individuals than the core type.

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I was over at enneagram institute before I came here. I know the enneagram very well. Variants are useless. But I mean, if you want to believe in it, nothing wrong with that...I just hate when people try to make things unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Horny

Variants are useless.

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oh okay thanks for clarifying i'll keep that in mind for next time

I'm in activity relationship (probably) and it's been very good and fulfilling but I haven't been in duality relationship before. I haven't noticed overactivation so far.
However, I have also close ESTj Te(activator). She is a great person although sometimes I think she's too tough when it comes to judging people. Sometimes, when I lived with her, I felt she wanted to put me down with her jokes. She was probably jealous of my relationships with other people, she is so much concerned with her career and education. She always wants to be the best. My relationship with her is a typical activity. When we meet, we meet everyday for some period of time, then we have no contact for half a year and again :). We have a lot of fun together, we enjoy each other's company and we both now that we have a lot to give to each other.
My boyfriend is Si subtype whereas I'm a very strong Fi subtype Maybe that's why our relationship is more balanced. I feel protected and taken care of, he gives me strength and make me feel less afraid. He also makes me laugh and helps fight my anxiety (I'm not sure if he's aware of that). I wouldn't say it started like activity. I even didn't know we were dating, it took us 2 months to kiss and of course it was me who kissed him first :). He was just so nice I felt he wouldn't hurt me. It's like I felthe was by my side whenever I needed him. In relationship we had some minor problems. He thinks I'm not stable which is basically true, not because of my type but because of general anxiety I have problems with. In the beginning he was afraid I would change my mind and leave him although I had no intention to do so. Now our relationship is rather stable and accepting. He enjoys the fact that I love him and hug him and tell him how great he is and show him his good sides . I love his stability, the fact he's active and doing something all the time, industrious with a great sense of humour. :)
I also had a crush on my ISTp friend from high school. This relationship was also very easy and we understood each other very well. However, we lived in different cities and only met from time to time but we always enjoyed it. However he did nothing and I did nothing although it think he was more hesistant so we are just friends still enjoying each other's company

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Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

Also, prior experience with duals puts you ahead of the game in recognizing duality too, as mentioned in http://www.socionics.us/practice/duality.shtml scroll down to where it says "attracting duals". However, if the dual isn't recognizing you, because of their lack of experience with duals or what have you, that could be hella frustrating.

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I've noticed that people who've had a dual best friend for a long time are better at recognizing with whom they fit together. They have a base line they can relate to. They also trust their natural style more so they can more easily attract duals even though the dual lacks experience.

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Originally Posted by Pauluch

I'm in activity relationship (probably) and it's been very good and fulfilling but I haven't been in duality relationship before. I haven't noticed overactivation so far.

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Just curious how you understand "activation" in the socionics context. It's not that I become a duracell rabbit around LIIs, it's more like someone has turned up the current in my brain, but it can go unnoticed by me if I don't pay attention to it happening. I had a hard time understanding why it even was called "activation" when I first read about this. It's like an internal thing and it's best noticed when you suddenly become alone after being together for some time. Then there is a sudden experience of relaxation and finding back to my natural self.