Printable View
Just to illustrate some things I've been saying in this thread, here's scene with a conversation between two people of which I type both the actors and the characters as ESTj (guy with hat) and ESFp (guy first standing in corner):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-lCe...eature=related
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
The problem is that ESTj's temper commonly comes out unintentionally and instinctively. Everything you see on the forum is intentional and thought out.Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
Effective communication is a focal point for Te types. There's no reason to show anger.
LSE get impatient when people don't follow their tuition and when they don't use common sense and rationality to figure things out. LSI are not as expectant of what others do and how they do it, as well as not as likely to lose their temper because they can repeat and babysit the person they want something to do, constantly. LSE blow up in rage. LSI are not like LSE, they don't use any Fe, LSE can use Fe, in the form of finding funny words to say and the right punctuations in a sentence to make a saying sound funny. LSI look for people who use Fe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
LSI are melancholic looking on the outside. LSE don't like being in that state for long.
The ESTj operations manager at my old job was like this. His anger would come out uncontrollably and he'd get all red-faced and be yelling about whatever. And yet, I'd find myself un-reactive to it and just kind of stand there looking at him like "are you done yet, can we move on?" I couldn't take it seriously and found it kind of pathetic, which I think was due to the fact he obviously lacked self-control. Though I also wondered if he suffered a few too many hits to the head when he worked as a bouncer and hospital orderly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
I believe there's a time and place for righteous anger. But should be something felt out of conviction, not just flying off the handle and reacting.Quote:
Effective communication is a focal point for Te types. There's no reason to show anger, ever.
There's no point or reason for the anger, but there are a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
1. to mobilize me, their dual in a critical situation, because if too many things happen at once, I will be unable to focus on the most important thing, I get confused and distracted. Their sudden anger gets me centered and paying attention. This rage doesn't really bother them. It doesn't bother me....I grew up with my dual...I love her and this only hapends when she feels that she doesn't have control of a situation, which she likes to have. Which is fine with me, but she also understands that I care about people first not "control of situations" because those are objects not subjects.
2. They grumble when they are ready to accept information from me.
3. They get angry when dealing with irrational types, because they don't get the proper response for their communication.
EIEs
"Ever" was a bit exaggerated, i admit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
Lol, yeah I figured you were exaggerating a bit. Just gotta be careful of absolutes, since people around here are liable to interpret that sort of thing literally, and then later you start seeing them say things like, "X got angry, so they can't be a Te type. Te types never get angry. Socionics fact."Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
Types with strong Se (aside from Si dominants) have, from what I've seen, the most hot tempers.
From a personal perspective I find Beta Se's to be the scariest when in this state since they go into command mode and enforce intimidating tactics with little regard for the affect it has on others (Fi+Si devaluing)
Example of an LSI caught going insane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvMTv_r8sA
My LSI father has also gone into this sort of explosive tangent though they're less frequent since he became religious (Ni comforting I suppose)
Lol, :Se: PoLR. :Se: ego are kind of cute and amusing when they get angry, but maybe its just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie84
What is that from? He sounds like a total pussy. Listen to the cracks in his voice and how his tone weakens periodically throughout.Quote:
XIEs are hilarious when they use their Se hidden agenda. They usually make an absolute mess of any power structure in their environment.
I tend to think LSEs get upset over little things. They work people like crazy and if those people don't cater towards their immediate requests...watch out. At work my EIE friend and I would take maybe a couple of minutes out of work to chat (sometimes it was more, i can't lie lol) and what do you know, over came the LSE to break up the conversation to make us go back to work. The LSE would hover over my desk every couple of hours to see what I had done, what needed to be done etc. VERY stressful and she wasn't even a team leader, a manager...anything. She just took it upon herself to do it. Another thing, she would request the help from her colleagues at any moment if there was something she thought a person was an expert on....and it didn't matter if they were in a different team, different department etc. They are demanding work-a-holics if you ask me.
Probably not a surprise since Se is your Polr. I was getting upset with my ILI friend over some Fe polr issue which was sparked mainly by something that happened maybe 6 months ago and I had enough and said "wait, let me finish" while she was talking and my EII friend just was sooooo shocked.....I guess they are just so sensitive to Se.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie84
I think we need to specify what "worst temper" means.
It could mean "most frequently angry" or "most severe temper when angry."Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
Really when it comes to questions of "what type is the most <some attribute>?" though, all answers will be subjectively based on what type the person doing the observing is.
Also, quickest to anger or easiest to anger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
The answer could easily be different depending on what you're talking about.
Most severely angry(which is what "worst temper" means to me) would probably be LSE.
Quickest to anger would probably be an Se-base type because of their reactivity.
Most frequently angry seems to depend on the situation the person is in, and not at all type related.
Easiest to anger would probably be ESI or maybe LSI because of rigidity.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
Are they the most angry in the short-term or long-term? Heh, that's kind of another kink in this whole question. Because some people can explode harshly for a brief period of time, then they're fine and it's all over. Other kinds of people when they get angry, can hold onto it as a long, simmering, vicious grudge.Quote:
Most severely angry(which is what "worst temper" means to me) would probably be LSE.
This I would chock up to EJ types in general. In my experience, :Se: egos tend to have better self-control in this way. I actually tend to interpret extreme reactivity as something implying the absence of :Se: ego.Quote:
Quickest to anger would probably be an Se-base type because of their reactivity.
Okay yeah, I could see that lol (I'm loling knowingly).Quote:
Easiest to anger would probably be ESI or maybe LSI because of rigidity.
I also tend to interpret the outbursts of rage of LSEs due to their lack of Se - which they probably find it hard to deal with since they´re demanding, commanding types like myself - and then they have Se as demonstrative function.
So this makes a logical reasoning for LSEs blowing into anger, absence of feeling of real concrete raw (I mean animal, instinctual, territorial) power in their Ego block coupled with demanding character. I strongly think LSEs are somewhat messed up, they should have Se and Te but unfortunately not everything can be perfect so they have Si instead and they feel lack of Se, which then gets shown very bluntly and surprisingly to others, since others don´t see any apparent Se in them usually.
I had trouble with this, people usually take me for a kind of a chicken or coward just because I´m this peace-loving person, although demanding, so they get annoyed and because they don´t perceive any Se, they think I´m some sort of chicken who likes to pose as a tiger. Then they get surprised and scared when suddenly I show them my Se - and this turning point, this moment from being calm and serene to being probably one of the most scariest persons to see gone mad in front of them, is just a moment, it´s very sudden, it´s often less than 3 seconds, it´s not thought and not controlled, it´s just pure anger coming out. Another reason why I think LSEs here are very much controlled but in real life if you mess with them seriously, you can expect some heavy turbulence with unpredictable consequences since it´s not a controlled or planned rage, it could get someone killed or seriously hurt. My two cents.
I would describe LSE anger as one that can explode in an instant with a huge intensity and that will then last over long period of time if something isn't done about it. Also, as time passes, it builds up again and could lead to another explosion if nothing is done. I do think it is more likely that it would start as a build up however.
Basically LSEs have a certain expectancy of the way all things should be (Te-base) which can easily lead to irritation. They have weak control over their emotions and devalue emotional atmosphere (Fe-Role) and even weaker awareness of how they affect others(Fi-DS) which can easily result in being carried away by strong emotions. Also, tend to have short-termed and reactive mind-set that often neglects consequences and gives in to instinct.
What this gives you is someone who has relatively very little emotional control combined with a person who is prone to irritation.
They 'know' how things are supposed to be, and if things don't go that way there is little keeping the irritation from boiling over and exploding out.
EIE could also be the type most prone to being consumed by anger, but EIEs are highly variable when it comes to this.
Hmm. My EIE dad is pretty fearsome when he gets angry. He's not quick to anger per se, especially not anymore. But I think by comparison it's what made other peoples tempers feel like a joke to me. Never came across anyone with the same kind of coldly devastating intensity as that. After you've experienced something like that, its hard to be provoked by anything less lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
You really know about LSEs. Do you live with one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
I believe my dad is one, but a lot of that is just a combination of the basic theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
Nice. So you get my point when I say LSEs are indeed very messed up, they are deltas who should be betas, they (we) seem to stand somewhere in between delta and beta and not belong really to any of both, although more delta-ish since we´re inclined towards peace both inner and outer (perhaps a gift of Si not Se in Ego).Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
I see what you're saying that LSEs can have a confrontational nature like many betas, but I'd say it's in a very different way. Their values are still Delta. Actually, I wouldn't even call LSEs confrontational. What can appear as confrontational is probably better described as uninhibited frustration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
Good way to put it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
BTW Airborne, you sound like you're kinda trying hard to convince yourself you're LSE.
LOL You made me laugh, because you´re hitting the bullseye all the time here. This frustration is not only with themselves but also with the world because it is not how it 'should be'. You should consider working in Psychology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeroffs
As you may know, people who get angry easily and scream are not as "dangerous" as those who hide their feelings and undermine you.
Among the first type, the most explosive types are ILE Ti, SLE Se, LSI Se, SEE Se and SLI Te, at least from my point of view.
On the other hand, there is a "wonderful" trait called envy, which is related, FMPOV, to Se. Unhealthy people with this ego function can't stand talent whatsoever and they will do anything they can to get you out of the track. Gamma NTs can be very nice too.
I appreciate healthy people of any type
"Still waters run deep"
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
Nah, I'm good at playing with theory. Understanding people is not my thing. lolQuote:
You should consider working in Psychology.
Thanks though.
No, I wish I was LSI or even SLI. I typed myself as LSI for some time and thought I´d found my type. I´m still open to thinking about my type. But everything is telling me I´m LSE (plus a friend who knows me quite well and 'Maritsa').Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
I wish I was as cool-headed and somewhat cold even like LSIs which I admire btw, or lazy and careless about the future and free from guilt like SLIs. I still prefer LSI overall since they have Se in their Ego block and they´re very cool-headed so they are, in the end, wiser than LSEs in some way.
I dunno. You just don't strike me as evincingly LSE yet. Maybe you're a weird one. You have a V.I. thread anywhere or anything of the like?Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
It is not by chance that Germany has almost dominated Europe twice with a much smaller army, and I may add here also not by chance they´re probably going to win this football World Cup.
When they had their dual ****** as leader they almost - really almost - got the entire world to themselves, although they deeply dislike this part of their history, and I also think there was lots of madness in Nazism, one has to admit that one single country almost got the entire Western Emisphere PLUS Russia.
This alone tells a lot about LSIs in terms of how effective they are pursuing their goals when they are truly motivated.
Yeah, I hate passive-aggressive people. I'd rather have someone combusting in total bloodcurdling rage than have to deal with some 'nice', cordial, passive-aggressive person who's silently working to indirectly cut your throat. Because at least the overtly enraged person is being honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Passive-aggressive =:Se: PoLR lol
Envy is NTR.Quote:
On the other hand, there is a "wonderful" trait called envy, which is related, FMPOV, to Se. Unhealthy people with this ego function can't stand talent whatsoever and they will do anything they can to get you out of the track.
I deleted my pics, I´ll remake the thread, it will be nice to hear opinions on my type Ashton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton
Rad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
The qualities you're describing are more linked to Beta Se's. LSE's (as well as ESE's) are strong in Se but they don't value itQuote:
Originally Posted by Airborne
Also keep in mind that Se PoLR's can not deal with demanding, commanding and general aggressiveness of this sort
This is (IMO) an excellent description of how Se as an 8th function manifests in them:
"LSEs typically are docile and friendly individuals. They are almost entirely unconcerned with ostentatious displays of power politics or obedience. They typically try to treat everyone respectfully and create a commodious, welcoming atmosphere. They may apologize when they perceive that they have displayed excessive crudeness, though usually they have not.
Occasionally LSEs may express confrontational tendencies. As a rule, however, this occurs when LSEs ability to perform useful work has been limited. LSEs are minimally motivated by adrenal or energetic impulses; instead, they try to maintain a stable and organized approach to anything."
I posted my VI topic if you want to check it, Marie84.
I am very much the way you described, I don´t think you got the point in what I was saying by demanding and commanding.
You as well as others are probably still under prejudices from my somewhat bizarre descriptions of my sexual relatioships with women which I see was not an appropriate topic and was also not precise.
It´s fun how I´ve gotten myself in this funny situation where basically every woman in the forum says I´m a Beta with little concrete socionics back-up, while I personally think I am LSE - would rather be LSI - and a good friend also thinks this, and also that Russian spy codenamed 'Maritsa'.
Marie and other women who don´t see me in a good light may want to check this poem I wrote last night for this marvelous girl I am charmed by here:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post665061
Perhaps then you´ll stop seeing my as an Aggressor woman-beater.