Random ideas

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Person 1 (static): That girl lieks you
Person 2 (Te): How do you know?
Person 1: The smile, the giggles, she gave you her phone number, she sent you a picture of herself naked
Person 2: :o, I'm not sure, u wrong
Person 1: ...

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http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/s...e_received.png

"Mental Caregiver" is an accurate term, thanks.

"rational subtypes are more tough skinned than irrational subtypes" I beg to differ. I've made similar observations, and drew a similar conclusion, until the other day I saw a ESE Fe subtype was acting very sensitive. One of his students had gotten overly excited and whacked him on the head, feeling this was a game, but since he is her teacher and she is his student, she is not allowed to behave that way. He sat in the teacher's lounge baffled as what to do, which is unusual because he is the 'enforcer', the teacher that all the students are afraid of. Honestly, his voice sounded like he wanted to cry, he took it personal even though he slaps, yells and hits the children with a rod all the time. I held a prejudice view of rational subtypes but in truth rational subtypes are good at appearing stronger than they really are, like they will have a biting tongue and the irrationals will across as bleeding hearts until...

Another exampe is of a EIE Fe who had never grieved the death of his father. He appears cocky and confident until one day his mind snaps and he starts weeping over the death of his father uncontrollably like ten years later, because he never delt with his emotional issues; he nearly destroyed his marriage.

When I left home, my father, a SLI Te, who proudly claims he never cries even at a funeral, yet lo and behold, to my complete and utter surprise, he had tears in his eyes :cry: he had me choked up - :cry: WTF?!!

I remember a ILI saying this: "you make yourself more vunerable by trying to make yourself invulnerable", he was talking about the 2009 global stock crash and investors pulling out, but still...Ni universal wisdom.

I suppose empirically 364 days of the year rational subtypes appear tough-skinned and then 1 day they show a softer side of themselves and perhaps due to a shared conscious experience that yourself and they are both under the impression they are strong, when they show that softer side, intuitively, you realise reality has an equilibrium, otherwise the alternative is ambivalence.

Even those especially rational subtypes LSI Ti adhere to an equilibrium. My brother questions my sexuality because I'm not aggresive like he is and my other brother SEE Fi does the same thing. Then I discover they're the kind of people who bawl their eyes out behind closed doors. His ESE Fe girlfriend does the same thing and she acts like a total bitch, yet she flirts with me and makes passes at me while he is in the same room but he is protypically too insenstive to notice. Ironic that he is suspicious of my behaviour as not manly enough and yet completely trusting/oblivious of his girlfriend who likely would cheat on him if given the right opportunity with me...I've strayed way off topic

I can cite further examples of rational subtypes giving off that vibe that nothing bothers them until you discover what really does bother them and its like meeting a whole new person.

At this point I'd say, further research is needed, otherwise your trading one prejudice for another. Aside from that I totally agree with the original romantic styles, Ti as emotional victim is spot on and Fe as mental infantile as with all the others.

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Originally Posted by chip

"rational subtypes are more tough skinned than irrational subtypes" I beg to differ.

[...]

He sat in the teacher's lounge baffled as what to do, which is unusual because he is the 'enforcer', the teacher that all the students are afraid of.

[...]

Another exampe is of a EIE Fe who had never grieved the death of his father. He appears cocky and confident until one day his mind snaps and he starts weeping over the death of his father uncontrollably like ten years later...

[...]

When I left home, my father, a SLI Te, who proudly claims he never cries even at a funeral, yet lo and behold, to my complete and utter surprise, he had tears in his eyes :cry: he had me choked up - :cry: WTF?!!

[...]

My brother questions my sexuality because I'm not aggresive like he is and my other brother SEE Fi does the same thing. Then I discover they're the kind of people who bawl their eyes out behind closed doors.

[...]

I can cite further examples of rational subtypes giving off that vibe that nothing bothers them until you discover what really does bother them and its like meeting a whole new person.

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All I meant by "thicker-skinned" is what you describe in each example, and sum up in that last paragraph: they give off "that vibe that nothing bothers them". Obviously, no healthy human being is completely invulnerable to emotional pain, no matter their subtype. Everybody cries, at least occasionally.

Except, of course, for Chuck Norris.

Here I go again.

I have been thinking a little bit about the relationship between Socionics and nationality. Let us rely on numbers. For instance, look at this graph:

"EU belief in god"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ief_in_god.png

Could it be that those countries with more believers are "filled" with Se/Ni valuers?

Graph #2

"Global median age"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Median_age.png

South America, Africa and central Asia have an average age of 20-30. Those populations as a whole may behave as beta quadra members. And look at China, its population is aging quickly. This may imply a shift from beta to gamma quadra mentality.

Graph #3

A 2% doesn't mean real research spending. This money is used for paying the wages of public servants. The most advanced nations, namely Scandinavia spend a great deal of their € in research. They are somehow Ne egos, or gamma NTs. Se egos (Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc) behave as dumb idiots and claim that "research is useles, let's go to the beach, ha ha ha".

http://www.madrimasd.org/revista/rev...sDCifras32.jpg

In my opinion, learning a second language is related to intuition. In underdeveloped nations, sensors do not see the point in "wasting time" in learning English.

Graph #4

"Knowledge of English in the EU"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ish_EU_map.png

In several threads, the issue of drugs has been discussed. It seems that certain drugs are related to each quadra (gamma=cocaine, etc)

Legal status of cannabis: as far as I know, hash is very popular among delta quadra members.

http://mappery.com/maps/Legal-Status...ediumthumb.jpg

"Cocaine use among adults" Spain, a clear case of a mega SEE.

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-map...ong_adults.png

"Favourite drink" The map is divided into 3 zones (wine, beer and heavy drinks, I think).

http://asset.soup.io/asset/0664/1674_5424_960.jpeg

@slater - at least some of these have relatively little to do with most people and more with circumstances. So "typing" culture, you might be onto something, but I don't think there's any statistically significant correlation with actual frequency of types.

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Originally Posted by Aiss

@slater - at least some of these have relatively little to do with most people and more with circumstances. So "typing" culture, you might be onto something, but I don't think there's any statistically significant correlation with actual frequency of types.

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That's probably true, but as far as I know no-one claims that "culture-types" like this are related to the frequency of certain types in the population, just the inherent type of the overall culture, traditions, etc., of the population. For example, LIIs may live in a country with an EII culture, but they're always aware on some level that they are different from what is considered the national "normal". Of course, culture etc., is influence largely by geography and history and such things.

Slater: Those are interesting. You (or someone) should do a chart correlating the type of the country/culture with some of these statistics, to see if there's a statistically significant correlation.

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Originally Posted by Krig the Viking

That's probably true, but as far as I know no-one claims that "culture-types" like this are related to the frequency of certain types in the population, just the inherent type of the overall culture, traditions, etc., of the population. For example, LIIs may live in a country with an EII culture, but they're always aware on some level that they are different from what is considered the national "normal". Of course, culture etc., is influence largely by geography and history and such things.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Could it be that those countries with more believers are "filled" with Se/Ni valuers?

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idk if it makes sense to link things like religiousness and drug use to type, but those maps are pretty cool. where are you getting them from, slater?

Never do or not do something, just cuz you don't think it matches with your 'personality.' Try everything you can. I'm glad I'm more physical, even if I'm faggy and get made fun of it for a long time (I mostly make fun of myself for it haha) before I'm actually good...

Removed at User Request

You guys decided that gamma=cocaine? :o

I was skimming over alpha the other day and hit upon this, something I found to be just as odd

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Originally Posted by Wikisocion

Alphas are also perhaps the most likely types to participate in group use of mind-altering substances.

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Idk if concluding that any quadra has any higher rate of use of drugs or religious fervor is possible. I wasn't present for any country discussion though, so I'll not consider that real input but rather put it forth as a mere opinion.

Removed at User Request

1) It's recreational group use of drugs and not personal, lock-yourself-in-the privacy-of-your-home-while-slitting-your-arms-with-razor-blades-hooray-for-cocaine use of drugs.

2) Please use your best rational judgment to scrutinize the validity of posted items on a wiki.

Removed at User Request

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Originally Posted by Pied Piper

That's the way I took it, yeah, but in your opinion, which between solitary use and group use would make it more Alpha, IYO?

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My comment was directed towards Skeptic, but in my opinion, I am not entirely sure because I think that it would be their reasons for engaging in either group or solitary use that would indicate their quadra values as opposed to simply whether or not they engaged in group or solitary use of drugs.

Removed at User Request

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pied Piper

I recall only one NT drug enthusiast (ILI), but in what I talked with him, he prefers a solitary experience.

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Me too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Could it be that those countries with more believers are "filled" with Se/Ni valuers?

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They generally seem to be nations which a sufficiently high catholic component. Except Romania and Greece.

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Originally Posted by laghlagh

idk if it makes sense to link things like religiousness and drug use to type, but those maps are pretty cool. where are you getting them from, slater?

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Google images and Wikipedia

Gini coefficient

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._2007-2008.png

% of urban population


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._world_map.PNG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Creation is aggression, a mental aggresion in fact: it consist of changing what already exists and bring sth new. Most people hate changes and get scared with some Ne. Try to use some Ne when surrounded by betas and gammas: they prefer to fall rater than follow your Ne. Fuck them

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yeah fuck them all. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aiss

@slater - at least some of these have relatively little to do with most people and more with circumstances. So "typing" culture, you might be onto something, but I don't think there's any statistically significant correlation with actual frequency of types.

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wouldn't it say more about the types that are in charge in different cultures?

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Originally Posted by humblepie

wouldn't it say more about the types that are in charge in different cultures?

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Millions of nerds/researchers arrive every year in the USA because they cannot find funding in their countries (where "Ne+Ti" is regarded as useless). That's why USA as a whole "behaves" as an intuitive somehow.

Spain: massive cocaine consumption, low budget in R&D, low interest in foreign languages, high interest in religion...
Spain behaves as a SEE :Se: , which is the most abundant type in it (according to my observations). When Spain was an imperial power, its empire fell apart quickly because of the weak N,T of its rulers. England (NT), on the contrary, designed battleships which were much better than those of the Spaniards and overthrew them.

I forgot one thing about Spain: the bullfighting. I'd say that Si/Ne Spaniards either don't give a fuck about this or promote the banning. Most supporters are Se/Ni.

It looks like a Cold War Map. A Hash Courtain, indeed


http://mappery.com/maps/Legal-Status...ediumthumb.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

:Fi: Mental victim, emotional caregiver

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Well, I agree with it.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...atents-granted

Countries leading: alpha NT, LIE, LSE

Spain, Italy, etc Se egos

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Originally Posted by Brilliand

What does a spiritual aggressor do? http://www.selfhelpforums.com/images...on_twisted.gif



Friend: Same quadra (or possibly, dual)



Enemy: Opposite quadra (or possibly, conflictor)

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A good example of a spiritual aggressor would be this man right here: a kindred spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_H...?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

Or this man:

http:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC_WG4nqgFE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

1) I promise I didn't read this before

:Se: Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

:Si: Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

:Ne: Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

:Ni: Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

:Te: Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

:Ti: Mental caregiver, emotional victim

:Fe: Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

:Fi: Mental victim, emotional caregiver

2) "The friend of my friend is mine"

So the benefactor (friend) of my benefactor (friend) is my friend?
I don't think so, since I find most SEEs annoying

3) "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

So the supervisor of my supervisor is my friend?
I don't think so, since I find most SEEs annoying

4) "The FIFA World Cup is exciting"

I hope so

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Pretty much one of the best insights yet. I'm amazed this hasn't been picked up on before.

bumping this. anyone wanna take a shot at correlating the child/adult dimension of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis to content ITT somehow?