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I am curious. Does anyone think socionics could potentionally be a dangerous thing for certain minds? I've noticed in myself that I have to becareful not to take it too seriously or I'll fall into the trap of forgetting I am a person, and people are just people, and there are more than 16 people in this world.
Not really. Very empathetic, all-around good people are into socionics. As for taking it too seriously, honestly I don't know what to say except for that we all take things seriously sometimes.
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I can say that I've seen some people taking it too seriously in both socionics and mbti forums, identifying so strongly with a type, that they fit the type instead of letting the type fit them.
This is kinda fake and unnatural though. Are you sure they're really doing this? This sounds so insecure me, that not even the dorkiest dorks of high school would do something like that.
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I myself do this whenever I have formed a typing thread, and so I fuck up on knowing my type, fitting whatever type I relate to at the moment, and becoming something I'm just not.
I used to do the same thing. Instead of looking within yourself, look outside of yourself and the sorts of people you naturally prefer to share your heart with. Socionics is based on intertype relationships, the personal identity part of it is flexible. I notice that I have a natural eroticism for estps and everything else seems to fit when I noticed a lot of things outside of myself. Socionics is primarily about how you fit into the greater outside world, not so much the ego-ridden insanity of 'Who am I?'
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This is possibly the most honest thing I have said here. I think I see other people do my mistake too. In a way socionics can create a mask for people to be fake, and find a fake sense of identity, that they lack in the first place.
I don't see this. I think people think other people are being fake when they're really just being them. "Oh nobody can be THAT nice he must be hiding something." Or "Hmm he's probably a decent guy deep down. Maybe this asshole thing is a facade?" (usually if the asshole in question is hot as hell) But that's not true. It's just people feel better when they think they are piercing beyond some sort of veil/facade but really, they're just observing how things are. There are no mysteries, it's what you see is what you get.
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But I think the worst and most dangerous thing in socionics is the relationship part. I think it gets to the point that some people only want to be in a relationship (romantic or just friendly, whatever you want it to mean) with their duals, which is bullshit.
I never thought this. But duals are a lot better for some things, like sharing your heart with somebody. Do you want to talk about your deepest, most precious innermost feelings with everybody? Nobody does this because of all the clashings it provokes.
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I know I want the closest people to me to be the ideal type,
Dude. If they are already close to you, and it's comfortable then they probably ARE already your ideal types. You're thinking too much about it!
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because I want them to definitely feel that way about me, and having an external system telling me that gives me an unrealistic sense of security in the relationship.
You're contradicting yourself. You said the 'closest people to you' and then you go on to say that it might be an unrealistic sense of security. That doesn't make any sense. Why did you let them in in the first place if they weren't compatible or secure?
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They should like me, because I'm their dual, or semi-dual, or whatever.
They DO like you for you, and them being your dual or semi-dual or identical or any other compatible types tries to explain the reason why, and the underlying psychological processes. That's it! You're thinking about this backwards.
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It gives a false illusion of a healthy relationship, but in reality your conflictor is just as likely to helpful to you as your dual.
No, they aren't. They are only helpful for help you to discover what you don't want in life and the types of people you don't want to interact with ...but a true conflictor is gonna psychologically clash with you. It doesn't mean you can't work with theme or get along in a 'business type' sense. But anything personal and 'heartfelt' is going to be dangerous.
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But the people I don't respond well to, I just love to turn into my conflictor. It just doesn't work like that. But I still do it, and I see people doing it in multiple forums, and in people I tell socionics about seem to quickly agree with me when I try rationalizing their relationships with socionics.
Sorry but you're not making much sense any more.
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I think someone on this forum said becareful what you put in peoples' heads or something like that. It's a good point, I fucked things up for people using systems like these to rationalize relationships and it was irresponsible, with bad consequences, but I think I'm not the only one who makes mistakes like these, so I think it should be something said.
You're missing the whole point. We prefer different types of people and socionics helps explains that. Other people make us feel things that others don't, other people naturally make us happier than other people. We can show basic respect for everybody on the planet, but we're always going to prefer the company of some people over the others. Do you naively let anybody in your living room?
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I guess I mainly want to know if anyone else sees the cons in socionics, and even more broadly, psychology, astrology, numerology, anything to do with analyzing behavior and identity.
I see the pros. I think they're mostly right, because everybody that I observed in reality has fit them to a T. And they try to talk themselves out of it how they're not like that, but they clearly ARE like that, and they're just driving themselves silly not aligning themselves with who-they-really-are. Very intelligent professoinals have studied this thing years before you did, and I'm sorry babe but they know what they're talking about. Socionics is a fact of nature, just like the laws of physiscs. It sounds like you need help really understanding it or something.
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I also would like people to point out the pros if they like, and see them, this is not a socionics bashing thread, speak positively or negatively.
SOCIONICS IS NOT POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE. IT'S NOT A VALUE THING. IT'S NOT RIGHT OR WRONG. The sun and moon isn't 'right' or 'wrong' it's just the sun and moon. Socionics simply IS. It's a facet of reality. Like Gilly says, it's already in everything else already. Btw a wise gay man (not me) once told me that the only way to not understand anything is to put an 'evil' or 'good' modifier on it. And that's *exactly* why you can't let yourself understand socionics.
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I'm just a negative person, so I found it easier to point out the problems I see. And plus, I suck at directing people from thread derailment, and I have a feeling people will want a positive spin somewhere so this is me avoiding any responsibility for the direction this thread follows.
You just have misdirected guilt. I don't see you as this horrible bad person that you see yourself as. Even if you did do something bad, you can correct it.
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I think that there are people it is dangerous for, because they have not formed a solid identity on their own. They are so sensitive to external things, they need it to tell them who they are, so these people, like myself, are so easily trapped in becoming a type instead of a person.
Identity is never solid. It's always a flexible, malleable thing on its own anyway. You can't form a solid identity even if you try, you can only know what feels great to you in that moment. It's like a song. Either somebody really likes the music or they can't relate to it at all. You only can relate to it if you yourself had that same exact feeling. And if you think 'everybody feels the same things' you'd be wrong, that's just a naive thing people tell themselves. There's no evidence to support that is the case.
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I think there also are people who have formed a solid sense of self, who can see beyond the types. These are the people socionics can be a healthy tool for.
You keep acting like 'seeing beyond the veil of things' is this wonderful thing. But in truth there is no veil. You just think that because of your own unique perceptions. You're not seeing through people. You're seeing them the way that you want to see them. Or you're just going by what they're showing themselves as. Either way though, that's not seeing 'beyond' anything. When somebody else tells you who they are, believe them.
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You can be any type, just like you can be anything, which is just another way of saying you're nothing yet.
You're misunderstanding. You can't be anything, well you can- but that something should align with your sense of sense or you're not going to stick with it. You could study to become an astronaught but if your heart is not into it; you'll never become an astronaught. You have to align with your own source like Esther Hicks said. If everybody can be anything then why are people the way they are instead of 'everything.' You're not facing reality here and you're being quite silly. Look around. People aren't 'everything' and anything, people simply ARE THE WAY THAT THEY ARE.
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That's my problem. That's the problem with people who take socionics too seriously. They have no foundation of their own, so they substitute it with an echo of a person, rather than being the real thing.
You're being so silly. An echo is just as real as anything else, it's another facet of reality that's just as real as anything else. A 'veil' is just as real as the real world beyond that REAL veil. Everything is real and everything is true. Nature includes *everything.* Nothing is fake. Being fake is real. An estj business man who has a high paying job and is 'real world success like' is being just as real as an emo infp artist who is more "rawly insightful."
The first principal of gay shamanism is that all perceptions are true, everything is true. God lets 'everything be.'