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@crazedrat
I like pleasure.
Maritsa, some of your posts lately have made my soul swell with joy. This was one of them.
Okay, on the serious tip, I'm going to just go question by question and give my thought process on what points to what.
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Originally Posted by
Pookie
Ok, so this is going to be long, and rather uncensored in some portions. But i feel thats for the better if im to learn anything here. Forgive me if i might offend you at certain spots.
what pisses you off in others? Someone who puts themselves as the top priority over those they are closest to. Hypocritical behavior. People who are driven to impress others, rather than improve themselves. Pleasure driven behavior. The concept of status or Image.
Hmmm... This also made me want to think Alpha or Delta, as people often associate status/image with Se valuing types... hypocritical isn't really type related, more like what you find hypocritical. Maybe you could give an example of hypocritical behavior that bothers you? "Puts themselves as top" is a complaint Deltas (esp. NFs) often give about Betas (esp. NFs).
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In yourself? My lethargicness. My inability to accomplish tasks i dont find stimulating.
Hmmm... but this here sounds like Te-polr... (said in a cowboy accent). Do Delta NFs relate to this feeling of inability to accomplish tasks they're not interested in? I find that Delta NFs complain more often of starting tasks and not completing them. Does it help you more when others provide practical advice on how to accomplish those tasks in the quickest/most efficient way, or does it help you more when someone you like tells you to do it, and does it with you? Or even if they just work on something else while you work on that? And I don't mean tells you to do it in a "HEY YOU BETTER DO THAT OR ELSE" way, more of a, "Come on, let's sit down and get this done together," kind of way.
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What do you wish you did differently? Acted on Impulse more often, i couldnt tell you the amount of positive things ive passed up by simply thinking too much about it and psyching myself out, or passing up things that are offered because i dont want to feel like an added weight.
This definitely sounds like Se-seeking. I feel that way all the time. Ni-egos often feel as though we spend too much time in our heads and not enough in the real world. We wish that we could spend more of our time just purely acting and moving and just doing things, as you said, on impulse, rather than rationalizing and overthinking and everything. Interesting what you said about feeling "like an added weight". Do you think those feelings would be eased if someone was very clear about wanting you to join in? I know I tend to be uncomfortable joining a group until someone makes it very clear not only that I am generally welcome in the group, but that they in particular want me to be in the group. Then I don't feel like an extra weight. On the other hand, that "added weight" thing could come less out of a Beta NF anxiety about being wanted/Se-seeking, and more of a Delta NF desire to be considerate of others, observe social boundaries, not intrude on other people, etc.
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What do you admire in other people? To me, admiration is one of the emotions farthest removed from understanding. If i understand someone, they aren't viewed on a pedastool. I know there good qualities and i know their bad qualities. It all comes together as one cohesive ying yang balancing act and i try to appease the whims of their personality. Admiration on the other hand, is given to those we dont know fully, for traits we dont identify in ourselves. But traits that would be benificial to ourselves if we had them. With that said: I admire those who constantly start projects, and finish them. People who arent afraid to take charge of a situation, to lead. People who have the practicality to synthesize with their rational side and handle the mundane tasks that i ignore. And probably more so.
Hmm... This actually sounds Beta NF to me as well. Granted, betas are inclined to put people on pedestals. We want to make things as epic and grand as possible, so we like to have heroes who are great and ideal. But if there's any type in beta that sort of wants to realize every side of a hero, it's an IEI. And the way you said it... eh, smacks of Ni to me. But again, there's an argument for this to be a more Delta NF thing. But what you said about not being afraid to take charge of a situation is a clear indication of Se-seeking. Handle the mundane tasks actually sounds like the way I'd say it, which is that they handle the tasks and get them done quickly (which is associated with Se, and in particular with SLEs and Te-demonstrative), but not that they focus on those details and trying to fine-tune them, which is more associated with Delta STs (i.e., Te and Si). A way this difference is often explained is to say that beta STs (Se and Ti in their ego) focus on effectiveness, while delta STs (Te and Si in their ego) focus on efficiency or optimization. Effectiveness deals with mundane tasks, but only insofar as they are necessary for a non-mundane goal. The mundane tasks aren't important unless they are given importance as a part of achieving something larger. Efficiency or optimization, on the other hand, recognizes that the overall goal is always better served and can run more smoothly if the details are in the optimum condition. You never know when something will come up, so if you get the boring stuff out of the way, you won't have to deal with it if something horrible happens. This leads to a concern with details almost for their own sake, because focusing on the details makes everything run smoothly and uses resources in the most intelligent and responsible way.
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What do you like best about yourself? I am Kind. I feel good when i make others feel good. I can learn in my head, understand the variables of this and that and act appropriately. I bust peoples balls, all the time. Most people think im kidding, but normally im telling my truthful opinion - those who know me see i do so with good intentions. Its not until something is addressed can we act to change it, and shit, if they dont see it, Not telling them is only hindering them. And that inaction would make me a terrible friend.
Hmmm... sounds NF. Telling the truth but making it seem like you're kidding is a classic beta NF "clown" move. Do any Delta NFs relate to this? Also, as a beta, I just kind of have to say AMEN to this.
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What sorts of things are you best at/enjoy most? Once someone points out an insightful point or observation, i can absorb it and expand, Filling in the blanks and understanding the variables that can make the insight wrong or even more true than originally expected. Breaking down fighters in combat sports, understanding through watching and theorizing. Finding what it will take to beat them, and at the same time, what will never work. I think in motion. Im good with juggling and weighing concepts. Dealing with the subjective, while holding firm the humbling belief that nothing is objective. Im absurdly optimistic, with the occasional feeling of foreboding danger to keep me in check. Im good with kids, and im good with finding the words to describe how i feel about an issue.
Okay, this settles it for me. You're Beta NF, in my opinion. Especially "what will never work". That's the core of Ni vs. Ne to me. An Ne dominant would almost never say "that will never work," rather, they would look at the ways that it could work, but also show that another strategy could probably work in more ways or is more likely to work. Whereas me, on the other hand, I will just say, "no, that plan won't work, find another one." That's Ni insight. Also the idea that nothing is ever fully objective is a frequent Beta NF mantra. Good with words (especially to express feelings) is yet another common Beta NF feature.
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What sorts of things are your worst at/enjoy least? Organization, Using the facts. Being a Host. Keeping my sense logic when im emotionally perturbed. Coming up with things to do. Being sensitive and tactful to things im not aware of. For instance: the occasional spousal abuse joke has backfired, as have the occasional rape joke. But, shiiit. Maybe that girl shouldnt have been drinking so much. How do you even know you were raped, when you cant even remember the night? Sounds like a not so well thought out excuse to garner pity from others, but i digress. And possibly apologize.
lol. More beta-ness.
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Is there a quadra you identify with (alpha, beta, gamma, delta)? I appreciate Random nonsensical nonsense. Like furry bunny barbarians fighting dragons on horseback for the throne of guatamala. Also, cartoon metaphors. I do that alot. But, mainly Beta now that ive found a way to look it up. Heated theoretical discussion, bouncing ideas back and forth with banter. The heated aspect comes from getting caught in the moment and the innate need to be understood. Not so much from anger or feeling that im right. I feel honest expression is key to understanding yourself, and therefore understanding others eventually. However, I dont deal well with serious confrontation. But rather i shy away from it until i tantrum.
lol. The random nonsense bit sounds Ne, but I dunno, I can appreciate the good random joke now and then too (and I'm working on a theory wherein Ni likes randomness too, just that it focuses on the suprising juxtaposition, the incongruity or the similarity pulled out of the difference, if that makes sense. The category error). I totally relate to the bit about heated discussion. Tantruming is also (sadly) a Beta NF characteristic, especially IEIs, who are nice and nice and nice and nice and then BOOOM! and then we feel better.
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Who do you think is a failure of a person and why? The Self-centered, uncompassionate. But other than those who live purely for themselves, i feel practically everyone is a balancing act of the good and bad that comes with different cognitive skills. Ti and Fe for instance both do certain things well and certain things bad. Ying Yang magic.
Hm. I think that your stance on self-centeredness is another example (I was talking about this on another thread) of a philosophy that seems very Fi (I mean, it's explicitly focus on obligations to other people, which is close to the heart of Fi), but is expressed and considered in a very Ni way, very philosophical and theoretical. I mean, even look at the language: "The Self-centered". It's a typical Beta NF sort of "force" or "concept" that sort of whirls around in your brain with the other concepts (internal dynamics of fields).
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What qualities attract you? Hmm... theres so many qualities out there. If i was to break down the spectrum of personality into 4 aspects - the Abstract, the Down to Earth, the Deep, and the Edgy - I would choose the Deep and the Abstract. The down to earth i dont relate to, as im not here on earth. Im in the sky whisping around, and honestly i don't give a damn about your car or your shoes. And the deep is for emotional comfort. Someone who looks within themselves enough to be molded by the metaphorical water pressure that comes from being at the bottom of the ocean. Aka the morals and values deepest at their core.
lol. More Beta NFs ness. Especially the not down to earth stuff.
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What qualities repulse you? The Materialistic & the self-centered. These i am instinctually predjudice against. Also, the type of cowardice that comes from running away from the issues every individual knows they need to put in check the most. Since relationships are symbiotic exchanges with the people we love most, we effect the people we care for the most with our actions and thoughts. We exchange with those people more than anyone else(optimally). If someone doesnt have the resolve to handle his or her own worst qualities, i feel that person is selfish to the point where he or she is putting themselves ahead of who they are supposed to love the most.
More Ni-ish philosophy. Even though it's about a typically Fi-topic, it's approached in an Ni + Ti manner. I should probably provide more evidence and analysis of this point, and I'd like to return to it later, but can't promise that I actually will. Do others agree with me on this?
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silverchris9, what do you think? IMO it's clear that she's an Delta NF. I'm not sure about which type, assuming that admiration of people who can lead is her Dual-seeking, I'd say EII > IEE. In the end, EIIs are also not so organized.
Eh, Pinnochio, I'd like to agree with you on this, but I think I've gotta go with aixelsyd on this. Beta NF, probably IEI. lol. Everyone on the internet is IEI. But I think that NF is clear and Delta NF would be the thing I would encourage you to look at, pookie, after Beta NF, and explore what fits best.