Experiences? Is it really that bad for the supervisee?
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Experiences? Is it really that bad for the supervisee?
Yes and No
The supervisors who know themselves well enough not to hurt you, won't; the ones who don't know their sense of self will very much say things and do things to hurt you.
I think supervisees end up feeling de-valued (by no fault of the supervisor) and like the supervisor thinks they're dumb or something. Which isn't necessarily true but they do appear naive/clueless/incompetent regarding the supervisor's base function. So... it's hard. There have been lots of threads on supervision relations and the best advice is to keep interaction formal and surfacy. As a supervisor, bite your tongue (although even that is hard because when it's your base function that's offending, how do you stifle that??).
Supervision relations can have fun together though. For instance with ESE/IEI, base and creative functions are :Fe: so there can be a lot of that bouncing around between them. But it gets old after awhile and not everything can be fixed using Fe.
but like I said, you can only hold back your base function for so long before it gets exhausting and annoying. But in a friendship and for short periods of time, yeah, it's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritsa33
definitely. i've seen more positive examples of this relationship more recently. best not to do romantic with a supervision partner though. even friendships of this relation get super strained if you over do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
I get drained around them in an odd way. I like them a lot and many are so much fun to do activities with; but for every hour spend I need a week or two of rest. I just don't understand what happends.
I've got a couple of ESE friends I see occasionally and they're really fun. But... yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze
Apparently I am in a supervision ring with my parents. Assuming my mom and dad have both been typed correctly...
My dad is my supervisor, and I am my mom's supervisor.
Actually, I can totally see this as highly probable, in both directions.
Oh, and if my son turns out to be an ESTp, then my mom will be his supervisor, and he would be my dad's supervisor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pianosinger
wow. that makes my head spin a little. lol
in my family, my father is my supervisor, my brother is my other brother's supervisor. that brother's wife, like my father, is also my supervisor. too much supervision that doesn't really lead anywhere except to hard feelings.
My sister supervises my mother. I think she's herself supervised by one of our aunts, but I rarely if ever see them together, for unrelated reasons. My mother's friendship with that aunt kind of reminds me with my own friendship with SEI, so super-ego probably makes sense. (Side-note: if she's LIE, I think this type should never, ever focus on their health. Or at least, destruction of the body in the name of health seems like a Si fail to me.)
No supervision for me in close family.
I'd take it over conflict any day.
i could def see thatQuote:
I'd take it over conflict any day.
My mom (LSE) is the supervisor of me and my dad (SEI) and we are the supervisors of my brother (EIE).
yeah same, tri-supervision here, me>mother+brother>father. I've never known anyone who came from a complete circle of supervision in their immediate family, but if anyone has that would be interesting to hear about.
I think when the circle isn't complete there's always someone who can at least mediate supervision conflicts...
I love it when people get angry at me for no reason and then silently disapprove of everything I do...NOT.
Context: I was playing some Smash Bros. with an SLE earlier. He's way better than me, and we were playing on a team together, and he got pissed at me when I kept messing up. For the :Si: valuers the game is about having a good time, but for the :Se: valuers it's Serious Business. There is a whole competitive scene for Smash and it's largely dominated by :Se: types. An ESI we play with also has a history of getting pissed at his teammates. In this case I think the SLE's angriness was more justified (he offered some valid criticism rather than blaming his own mistakes on me), but it still feels subjectively terrible due to supervision.
After I left an ESE we played with texted me:
ESE: Are you smashing?
me: Nope i left
ESE: Aw man come back bro
ESE: Are you coming back?
me: Nah i got sick of [SLE] raging at me. It's cool though.
ESE: I see, yeah me too. I hate it when [SLE] and [ESI] rage at you for their mistakes.
me: Nah it was my fault. But still...lol
ESE: But still, [SLE] and [ESI] raging makes the game less fun for everyone. [Heh, I'm not good at :Fe: so I would not have realized this]
So yeah. People who think socionics doesn't describe real relationships, take note.
TELLL me about it!! I experienced supervision with a coworker over the past year, and it basically exploded in my face a couple months ago, fallout lasted about 1.5 months, and I still hate/mistrust her (she thinks everything is ok I think). I'd always mistrusted her from the moment i met her, but at least previously I at least sort of liked her as a quirky but friendly person. Not so much anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
:( I try to be extra-nice to IEEs for this reason. Luckily supervision doesn't always work out like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
pwnedQuote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
lol, that's not necessarily a difference between Se and Si. Se can also be about having a chill good time, while Si can also be competitive. I'd say the people who RAGE at these things are related to their fear of defeat or "failures", which are oh-so-important, and so humiliating to people who need to be WINNING all the time, like Charlie Sheen. The rage comes from their fear of defeat and humiliation. I'd say this is just a human thing and not really type related.
On a slightly related note... I think Daigo Umehara is an EII.
I'm sorry man that sucks. I can be competitive in smash but I don't get angry if I don't win and I certainly wouldn't make a big deal about a teammate who may not be as good. That means I just have to do better myself. Practice a bunch and kick the SLEs ass lol.
I resemble this post...Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Shit.
wait till you beat them at games like that. that's when they really get nasty.
Yes, exactly, lol. That's also the only way to make them stop: beat them repeteadly. An ESI friend of mine which is a worse cyclist than me doesn't even attend races I partecipate in, because he can't help but being terribly pissed off when he loses. MEH @ this attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
"just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.
-_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Actually, it seems to me that :Se: types tend to respect people who are able to demonstrate their prowess. But alas, I am a lowly scrub. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
Heh, I would if I cared enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia
Well I hope you don't think that sort of thing is actually :Se:, because I'm also a ":Se: valuer" and I'm also about having a good time and I don't care much about competition or being competitive. I figure that there will always be someone who is going to be better than me at doing something... so who cares? It's rather unrealistic and irrational to assume that you can be #1 at everything, and then get pissed if you are somehow not #1.
i actually agree with this. the thing is, when all that the "competition" comes down to is that one person completely dominates the other in terms of skill, the game turns into a routine of "gee, X won again". That's not competition. Its repetition. When a game is all about exercising the purely logistical process of proving that one person happens to have more innate skill than the other, there is no real competition going on.Quote:
"just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.
No, super-ego relations suck worse. At least your supervisor, mine anyway, empathizes and doesn't need a whole lot of information to understand me.
it's still technically competition in that case, it's just not well-balanced competition. and yeah it's no fun anymore when that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
Well, if you have to have a supervisor in a work environment.. supervisors make the best ones.
Well, YMMV of course. And that's not really what the conflict was about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
I should note there is a slight chance that the SLE is EIE. That's what I had typed him as previously. He is a cool guy in general; it seemed like he was in a bad mood at the time or something.
Well thanks for the concern and the effort :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by thehotelambush
But one of the things that makes me mistrust LIIs is the "fake nice" act they seem to put on. I can see right through it, and I think it's ridiculous. Makes me feel like they're doing something evil behind the scenes that they're trying really hard to make me not suspect (and this actually unfortunately turned out to be the case with my LII coworker). I nipped it in the bud as soon as I found out.
So if you're not doing any backstabbing things, being "extra nice" is the wrong approach, at least as far as I'm concerned.
speak for yourself, assholeQuote:
Originally Posted by crazedratsghost
:8*
This is SO false. :thumbsdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedratsghost
You're right, but I think that's not always the case. It can be very exciting to train in order to become better, especially in video game, and then see who's the better player. For instance, I like to play strategy games against my brother in which we try to render the other's tactic useless. (We also had really cool fights in Super Smash Bros.) But some people take those things much too seriously imho. I know that they don't want to spoil the fun for others, but they still 'work' too hard to win, you know what I mean? And if they win all the time, they even start to brag about it. (Like those countless 15-year-olds who pwn the shit out of you in every fps/mmorpg just because they play 24/7) Those people are probably also the ones who are sore losers if the other migth had luck or something like this. I don't exclude cheat usage and hacking in online games for these players. I personally never use cheats, not even against AI-opponents. It totally spoils the fun imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourama
In a nutshell: some competition can spice up the game, just don't overplay it and keep it fair.
I tend to be more interested in the logistical process than in the competition - though that generally means comparing strategies rather than comparing people.Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
Frequently the strategy that comes out on top is a simple process of spamming a single move, which often annoys more competitive players. Super Smash Bros. Melee reduced the effectiveness of special moves, which made reactions more important and strategy less important... which makes the game less interesting for me and more interesting for highly competitive players.
Dunno what Smash is.
Concerning supervision relations:
I've no idea if I've ever been "supervised" by an IEE.
I hear it's considered a humbling experience...My LSE sister has this ability to put me in my place in rather embarassing ways if I get out of line and become too critical/emotional/bitchy.
She knows exactly what to say to cut the deepest. That's kind of humbling to me.
you're ESI? tbh I dont ever recall disliking an ESI, but i haven't known too many, like 1 or 2 and we never really got TOO close. but then again, supervisors usually like their supervisee if i understand correctly, so i dont know what the ESIs think of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
What I mean is understanding when not to "apply" :Ti: in order to avoid making someone uncomfortable. I try to do this for every relationship, unless I find it particularly limiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
However, I know an SLI who really doesn't like me, and I actually do think my being friendly is a turn off for her because she has learned to mistrust me in the past; however it didn't seem to be a problem before she decided that I was not to be trusted.
Usually there's mutual like and respect. The Supervisee likes how their Supervisor is strong in their PoLR, and so is drawn to the Supervisor as a source of wisdom, knowledge, togetherness, or whatever. OTOH, the Supervisor is drawn to their Supervisee when they use their Demonstrative (which is the Supervisor's dual seeking function).
So, both provide the other with some kind of appreciated information.
Where the asymmetry happens is the Supervisor's information is provided in a way that the Supervisee takes as being "corrected" due to a values clash. The Supervisee can wind up feeling as if they're seen as being faulty or dysfunctional, when the Supervisor doesn't think this at all.
This happened with me and one of my LSE friends. He was quite surprised when I finally said "I know you think I'm emotional and irrational..."
Yeah yeah, this is EXACTLY how things were initially. And then she volunteered herself to help teach me this particular technique i needed to do; and then the problems started because i went to her as to an "expert" but seeking info in a Te format, which she would never really provide. Like she would answer a totally different question that i was not asking, and then she made some weird conclusions about what i must know or not know from the questions she THOUGHT i was asking. So it would degenerate into confusion on both sides, and usually i would start losing my patience with her and provide her with some negative Fe because of my annoyance. And at that point is when i think she started "taking revenge" by spreading untrue things about me behind my back. Or maybe she wanted to do that all along and just wanted to twist what i would say/ask to get fodder against me. This is how she made me feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Egbert Human
In my case, she DID think I was faulty (as revealed in my discussion with her later), and was trying to intervene or something. :rolleyes: It seemed to be very Ti vs Te- related, so yeah she obviously didn't like my POLR. And to reiterated, it only really all came to play when we started working closely together.Quote:
Where the asymmetry happens is the Supervisor's information is provided in a way that the Supervisee takes as being "corrected" due to a values clash. The Supervisee can wind up feeling as if they're seen as being faulty or dysfunctional, when the Supervisor doesn't think this at all.
This happened with me and one of my LSE friends. He was quite surprised when I finally said "I know you think I'm emotional and irrational..."
Yep. There's also the shared ego function. I find that's a huge element of what keeps a supervision relationship going. I've bonded with SLEs by talking about philosophy and logic and whatnot, IEEs by sharing interesting life experiences and knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Egbert Human
edit: the initial version of this post was too whiny and i think i can get SLEs to like me after all! the only negative aspect is that i have to be alert in order to keep a steady and positive wavelength but they can be pretty cool individuals ;>
yeah. my IEI daughter gets MAD if someone suggests that we play a game without keeping score. she won't even bother to play! haQuote:
Originally Posted by glamourama
How all supervision relationships go:
Supervisee: You're being sociopathic. =(
Supervisor: No. You're just being too sensitive.
Supervisee: TOO SOCIOPATH.
Supervisor: TOO SENSITIVE.
Supervisee: SOCIOPATH!!!
Supervisor: SENSITIVE.
Supervisee: Fuck you. I'm going back to my dual.
Supervisor: Okay. Me too then.
<3
lol this is a lot better than most of the supervision relation descriptions out there. I smell a series...
My boyfriend of several years just turned up and dumped me. Totally out the blue and i'm very upset.
He is my supervisor so i'm looking for your help to cheer me up.
Please tell me all the reasons why you shoudn't be with your supervisor and why it is for the best!
:cry:
I believe my last relationship was with my supervisor, as well.
Relationships of supervision, imo, can be extremely fun, and intimate. Definitely a connection of possible soulmates. However, when it came to actually getting things done, or things being explained, it was confusing as $@!#. I had to try really hard to understand her, and her advice tended to confuse me and hurt.
IMO, your soulmate shouldn't confuse you, or show up one day and dump you. That's pretty much how mine ended also, seems to come out of nowhere, from supervisors.
Thought I couldn't ever love again, but you can. Just gotta get through the hurt, but believe me, there is light at the end of the tunnel. :love:
Just like my supervisor above said, look for things like tunnels, light, the end of the road, cliffs, etc.
so he's an LIE?
did he give you a reason?
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Parkster
Thanks for your understanding - I can't even begin to imagine going on a date with someone else. Hopefully I will feel better in the morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Dew
Yes a LIE. He gave reasons which I don't necessarily disagree with. Unfortunaltey that doesn't make me feel better at this point. I would have tried to work on our issues before calling it a day. I'm still in shock it only happened a few hours ago. I'm trying to get my head around our potential future together vanishing into thin air.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
at first when i read this i thought 'whoa, cause he's your boss duh.' but then i realized what's going on here.
sorry for not contributing
Me too. Work affairs are so awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by heath
disagree entirely. but a+ for being quasi-unsullied by this place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
you're better off without that!:hug:Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eE8wG1MP1r...eat-Driver.jpg
Yeah, I completely understand how that goes. It definitely does take time. Idk, if you feel you really need closure, ask him again. Guys sometimes just need to cool off, and if you're both still young, even more so. Don't rebound, it ends badly...but yeah, I would get closure and...idk, start to get angry. I tend to feel indifferent towards someone after not hearing from them after I reach out for a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
I've been married to my supervisee for years. Intertype relations don't always mean certain death right away. There are a host of other factors that can keep couples together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayley
p.s. and by "years" I mean, like, 17.
Supervision is a hard relationship to maintain, nobody really gets satisfied.
It's decent for mentoring and that's about it.
I'd be GLAD to. I've never had a romantic relationship with a socionic supervisor, but I did have a really awful experience with one at work. We started out pretty well... from the outset I thought she was a little weird and wasn't sure if i could trust her, especially from some vibes I got from my boss in regards to her (the way he related to her). I see my boss as a very benevolent, kind, fair, sometimes overly trusting person, so his unease with her raised some red flags to me that he might have had some bad experiences with her. She was also OVER the top sweet with me, which i thought was sorta suspicious. That was my first impression. Nevertheless, our desks being right next to each other, we got to having a lot of conversations about family, life, and we found that we had a lot in common. So after a while, even though in the back of my mind i still didn't completely trust her, I came to saw her as a nice, albeit a little quirky, person and even thought of her as a friend.
Well, after about a year of being friends, she volunteered herself to work closely on a project with me. Which i didn't mind because she's a lot more experienced than me and I'd be glad to learn a thing or two from her, and I saw her as a friend, and she seemed so excited to work with me. So almost immediately we started having major miscommunications, in that things she would say I found to be incomplete information, and when I would ask clarifying questions, she would give me an answer to a completely different question. I of course would get frustrated with this and start having an irritated tone of voice, which put her on edge. But then after the issue was resolved i would go back to being my normal self and things would seem to be just fine.
Not to make this too long of a story, after about a month or 2 of working together like this, apparently she started spreading false vicious rumors about me behind my back, all the while being sweet as suga to my face. It only came to my attention when the rumors reached a friend of mine at work, who was like "hey, WA I need to talk to you." and told me all about what's been going around about me. I felt so betrayed, but i knew i should have seen it coming, especially after a few people here typed her LII (my supervisor) a while back. At the time i was like "really??? supervision doesn't seem so bad then... we get along fine!" Little did i know what lay ahead...
I did have a face to face talk with the LII after the rumors came to my attention. All this ugly stuff about me that had been on her mind for many months came pouring out, to my shock and surprise! Of course i debunked them all, and i told her that if she has a problem with me she should say it to my face, so that i have a chance to fix whatever it is that is bothering her, and because i dont like to function with these fake facades. Actually she did a similar thing to my friend (who i also think is Delta, might be a dual actually), stabbed her in the back to my boss, but eventually our boss figured out it was all unfair and unreasonable accusations. So my friend was there with me when i confronted the LII, and we sort of cornered her (figuratively speaking) with her evildoings and actually made the LII cry. Though I think she cried just because there was nothing else she could say to save face or make what she did seem right. I think it was fake tears.
Anyway, knowing socionics, I stopped at that point, and just had us all do a group hug and ever since have kept a large psychological distance. Never again working with her, keeping work related conversations to a minimum, and only speaking about very superficial topics. Limiting interaction as well. We are back to being "friends", at least she thinks so.
Such is socionic supervision. It might not play out for a while, but if you get close enough, it happens just as predicted. Same with any intertype i guess...
STRONGLY DISAGREE!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
Thanks for the messages of support. It is tough, I haven't been in touch with him since we split and I'm on day 2 of recovery.
I'm trying to look at the positives. It is the first time in my life that all my friends are single. Last time I broke up with someone I had to go out and make a new circle of friends which was very hard given my intoverted status. At least it's quite easy to get out and about on some nights out and have some fun.
We did have problems and it may be for the best but i really do feel like I have been hit by a train.
I have mixed emotions sometimes I'm really upset and other times I get very angry as I would have handled the situation differently.
Nevertheless it doesn't really matter. It is what it is there is nothing to be done except accept the situation and move on.
Todays challenge is phoning my parents to let them know..... I'm dreading it especially telling my mum as she has been harping on about bloody grandchildren grrrrrrrrrrrrr :(
Think i'm coming down with a cold too...sniff... hangs head...scrunches tissue and thows it on the floor.
Goddam it i need to pick myself up!
Thats it im going out.
Person a, namely Socionics geek: might dump someone just because he/she is his/her conflictor.Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
Person b, unaware of Socionics theory: may dump you regardless of whether you are duals or any other intertype relation.
If a man dumps a woman, it is probably because he has found someone younger and/or hotter.
If a woman dumps a man, it is probably because she has found someone richer.
Differences in IQ, religion, values, education, planet of origin, etc matter too.
Aw man, I hate having to notify people when a longterm relationship ends. how long were you two together if you don't mind me asking?Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
I was pretty upset for half a year after my SLI ex broke up with me, and now I can't even remember what was so great about him that caused me to be so depressed over it.
:stroke:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Thanks for that little insight. Seriously you don't want to f*** with me just now.
5 years. *Read next sentence in a sarcastic tone* On the plus side when he told me he said i should be grateful he didnt do it over the phone. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
Anyway my little venture out gave me one highlight today, the guy at the DVD store who i have always thought was quite hot was working. He cheered me up for 5 mins :)
It's not fucking around: it is called fi polr -->say what you think. We SLEs and ILEs share this trait.Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
What a jackass. You'll find better.Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
Don't hide behind your polar :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
At least an SLE flirts with you while he stomps all over your feelings.
Actually SLE's seem quite sensitive to IEI's feelings in my experience. It's everyone elses they don't seem to understand.
Yes maybe at the bottom of this bottle of wine :)Quote:
Originally Posted by blackburry
You shouldn't be with your supervisor. Reason 1.Quote:
Help Please Tell me all the reasons I shouln't be with my supervisor
Reason 2. You shouldn't be with your supervisor.
You shouldn't be with your supervisor. Reason 3.
What is a polar?Quote:
Originally Posted by IEI
I can recall a Friends episode in which Chandler and Ross "flirt" with the pizza delivery girl: Ross is so creepy!Quote:
At least an SLE flirts with you while he stomps all over your feelings.
I am so bad at understanding IEIs that I think I know none in person, which is probably wrong-->I cannot tell apart IRL IEIs from SEIs or ILIs or robots with human appearance.Quote:
Actually SLE's seem quite sensitive to IEI's feelings in my experience. It's everyone elses they don't seem to understand.
It is an anagram of an abbrieviation for "A Point Of Least Resistance" :shifty: :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Where abouts in Spain do you live? I lived in Majorca for 2 years when i was a kid.
lol yeah! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
Quote:
Originally Posted by octopuslove
Yep - dont' know what was going on with my Ni - not much catches me out these days i really didn't see it coming last week.
Kim wrote the following in a closed thread:
[note to Kim: I do not argue with your LSI typing in that thread].Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim
This got me thinking about how different types supervise. Yes, I can see how a LII throwing Ti would seem like a Supervisor's attack for an IEE. I compensate for Ti with many other things; Ti is not a place I dwell at too long when coming to my own conclusions. Though I do enjoy listening to Ti explain things, I get defensive when someone tries to make me start using Ti, or trying to convince me this is the way to think. (I like to use it when I want to use it, and I tend to pick some other way of thinking as much as possible.).
But I am curious, how does a LSI act when they are Supervisor??
As an IEE, I am also curious about how Kim or anyone else things IEE acts as Supervisor?
My own experience as an IEE Supervisor is this. My mother is my Supervisee and it was always a difficult relationship best served by distance. Now we are required to be quite close. At least its a more natural position to be her caregiver and "supervisor" than when she was in charge of me. As Supervisor, my primary gut-reaction is scorn, and then I get into an interior knot with shame about my uncharitable thoughts and unkind impulses, and so I have learned to make it a point, around my Supervisee, to practice self-control. As O.B.Slinko points out in an article on this forum, I discovered some time ago that knowingly disabling my main function around my mother helps us keep peaceful and me charitable. Before I knew Socionics, this took the form of me making a decision to be "another type of person", not myself, around her, in order to keep peace and to be kind to her.
I am curious about anyone else's experiences about how other types have been as supervisors.
Watch out, you've got friends incoming...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason
18:35 anndelise I've been trying to avoid, but checked in again, and am laughing....jim is gonna close his thread?? Lololol
18:44 k0rps is he?
18:44 k0rps your pal eliza is picking scabs again
Regarding the topic; you'll note that regardless of types, there can be positive supervision relationships but only under strict conditions. In personal relationships the supervisee becomes acutely uncomfortable with the oversight of the supervisee and will tend to jump for the strike out at the supervisor unreasonably for relatively banal observations. The supervisor then knows exactly how to hit their supervisee where it hurts with relatively little effort.
Friends are good!Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
Now, as a Supervisor, I am not trying to hurt my mother. But it seems if I am just myself, instead of practicing self-control, I do. I find myself telling myself in her presence: "Do not speak as you feel. Speak as you ought." How often do I speak cheerfully with measured patience when I feel the OPPOSITE around her? Its the only thing that keeps a peaceful home.Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
So I guess you are saying that even if a Supervisor is not intending to hit the Supervisee where it hurts all the time, they do? Its just a Supervisor's innate compulsion maybe.
That's the principle of it yes. Since I doubt either myself or Annedelise are going to be particularly scarred by our encounter I find it unlikely we can be considered to be in supervision. I just think it's classic mirage behaviour. Sometimes ILI-IEE can discuss things frankly and openly, other times they aren't aligned and clash quite spectacularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason
Hmm, I am not seeing this analogy, since, as Anndelise knows, I don't think she is IEE (though she feels she is properly typed and plenty of others agree with her on that) and you think you are ILI and I, like my Supervisor k0rpsy, am not seeing "the IP vibe" in you [I know a couple of different INTPs well]. And anyway my NF tells me to trust my Supervisor's Ti on you being LSI... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
Also, I want to point out that the scarring from your Supervisor comes from a long-term close encounter, as in family or spousal relations, and you and Anndelise are nowhere near that. Actually the scorn I perceive from you towards her is consistent with how I have seen a Supervisor is when he/she has superficial relations with a Supervisee.
Maybe all ISFps do this to people but the unpleasantness I feel from supervision is that they don't take me seriously. ISFps love me but see me as this sweet girl who can't look after her own needs and needs to be clothed and spoon-fed. It can actually be fun until they talk to me like I'm a real idiot because I refuse to button my coat up all the way when it's cold. With ESEs it's like they're itching to reach over and button it for me but will at least respect my decision and just keep saying, "Ooookay, buuuut..." Still they won't go through the trouble of dressing me themselves.
In the end the ISFp usually tells me what a good person I am and goes off to do something else, and I have to admit that I'm usually glad when they do. I feel myself holding back a lot of details about how I'm doing from them because I know they think I'm a bit "special" and might try to help me some more. Is this a supervision thing or just an Si-dom thing?
http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...vs-iee-vs.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Pierreuse
So you're an SLE? No wait you're an IEE nvm.Quote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
I get along with mi LII-Ne dad quite nicely. He doesn't value much what I have to say but I've got used to it.
I don't blame him, IEE gibberish can reach ridiculous levels sometimes. I can get lost when listening to myself, no wonder he does.
Aqua loves me
I generally get along with LIIs, but I always have that lingering feeling that they don't take what I say seriously. As for ESIs we get along well and I notice their faults, but I only point them out to help them if they ask for advice.
this one Se-ESFp E7 dude i know is really nice and tends to be very warm whenever i approach him (even if he's in a sour mood; the same cannot be said for myself). but he has this annoying habit of yanking me by the arm to motivate me to do something he thinks would be good for me, like he'd pull me along regardless of how much i protest. he also tends not to "get the hint" when he overdoes it, although i know he's only just being friendly so i can't really blame him. he's very physical, and plays around by shoving and mock-wrestling w/ people, which is cool but i don't partake in it because it's uncomfortable for me. for some reason, he respects this distance but doesn't really follow it with more ~formality~, which is a relief because it annoys me when people assume i'd be offended by everything they do/say and stop being candid around me.
anyway, this one ESFp is cool people. i don't know too many others as closely, so can't say.
I may sometimes talk to IEEs as though I need to explain everything to them or constantly remind them to make sure they finish task (okay, not all the time, but when I decide to help). But then again, I kind of have a tendency to do that all the time to everyone. I'm just so smugly superior.
This is sort of making me wonder if I do anything bothersome to ILIs. I guess I do tend to playfully speak for them in awkward situations, saying things like, "(ILI) totally wants to punch me right now." which they could see as putting words in their mouth...
Perhaps an ILI wants to punch you, but it is never gonna happen ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierreuse
I don't find our relationship entirely unpleasant, just demeaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agarina
ILIs have weak skinny arms from being dorky. They can't punch anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
This oddly sounds like a threat. Lol. XDQuote:
Originally Posted by consentingadult
Well the one I'm thinking of will usually respond to me saying shit like this with something like, "Why are you saying that? I never said that." They probably think I'm pushing them to express themselves when they don't want to or don't think it's necessary. Just like those damn SEIs trying to get me to wear a scarf.
My boyfriend's mom is SEI and while I was staying with them recently she kept forcing me to put on mittens, a hat and scarf when we went out (to be fair it was cold, but not THAT cold) and I would stash most of it in my bag until I actually needed it. At one point my boyfriend (IEI) pulled me aside and was like...
him: "She saw you're not wearing the mittens. You might want to put them on."
me: "I don't need them though."
him: "But she says it's cold outside."
me: "I'm already wearing four layers plus a coat, scarf and hat. It's fucking overkill."
him: "Of course it is. How do you think I feel everyday?"
In the end I didn't put them on. Instead I held his hand, which his mom found adorable. Still, it was a close call. :p
Edit: This is how I think of SEIs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HP2escR3qQ
My GF is SEI, and towards me, she doesn't behave like that. But then again, I'm her semi-dual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierreuse
i don't think it's in any way contrary to canon theory to view supervision (from the receiver's point of view) as an outright positive relation: tips on how to navigate outside of your comfort zone (PoLR function) from a person who speaks your language (their Creating is your Base).
Usually supervision relations are easy to start, because of the reasons your state. And thus such relationships are quite common. But in the long run, interaction at close psychological distance becomes frustrating for both parties. It can work, as acquaintances or not so intense friendships.Quote:
Originally Posted by labster
Yeah. This topic has ben reharsed plenty of times. The general conclusion is, that the real problematic situation could be one where the supervisor is your boss and/or someone that needs to evaluate your work on a frequent basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by labster
@FDG, what is wrong with rehashing "old topics"? Some of the forum members have not been here as long as you and have not had a chance to talk about these topics in the first place. The16types.info is becoming like an old growth forest - beautiful, majestic towering trees- where many generation old giants block out all the sun for the forest floor. No new plants and trees can take root and reach out for the sun because the old growth trees have blocked the canopy. Biodiversity stagnates, even while the forests stability improves as the dominating species create more favorable conditions for themselves.. It's not just you, it's really apparant for us new trees struggling to reach the sun that all the old trees have already "been there, done that". When a graduate finishes univeristy, they can either stay behind and teach (with benevolence), or they branch out and start there own venture. I am speaking for myself, but am sure others feel the same way, when I say that I are more then happy to hear you rehash socionic topics. Because when a old growth forest reaches that point of no new growth, a forest fire is the only thing that brings new growth and diversity. I love old growth forests by the way and they should and can be protected by laws and governments.
In regards to feeling demeaned by a supervisor, yeah I have felt that way. It is especially hard because often times they are correct, I just feel their approach need not be so "harsh".
hee hee I love people. I see a common theme...Eat, eat, it's cold outsideQuote:
Originally Posted by Pierreuse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TW_-b5FVVU
I love my SEE friends :love: