Unwanted Advice

See, Arctures, no matter where we end up we're still identical twins.

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Originally Posted by silverchris9

Giving unwanted advice is not really type related, although EJ types are more likely to give advice freely and frequently than IP types, for instance. This is because extroverts are more likely to contribute frequently and, for lack of a better word, unpremeditatedly, than introverts, and obviously advice is an inherently judging-related, rather than perceiving-related, activity (or if you prefer, inherently a rational activity, but I think in this case the MBTI terms are helpful). However, I think the more relevant socionics observation is that a) we tend to give advice based on our ego functions (our ego functions are overrepresented in our advice), and accordingly, b) we tend to notice advice as "unwanted" more when it comes from types that are not in our quadra, and when it reflects IMs that we do not value (or sometimes that we value but which we can handle fine, i.e. ego elements). So the feeling that someone is constantly "in our business" or always "giving unwanted advice," may often have to do less with the frequency of the advice and more to do with the nature (socionics and other, actually) of the advice; that is, how you say it is more important than how often. If an SLE and an LSE both give me advice, it will feel like the LSE is constantly giving me unwanted, unasked-for, annoying advice, while it will feel like the SLE always ready with a helpful idea, suggestion, or statement, even if they speak equally often.

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this. it depends not only how the advice is being given but what the advice is being given about. something I value and care about>something annoying that doesn't matter.

The entire internet is nothing but unwanted advice, really. lol

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I disagree with the practice of calling types "external" or "internal" when their Base function is respectively external or internal. This seems to overblow the importance of the Base function.

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This reminds me of this guy I encountered yesterday. I was helping my sister and her bf put up insulation and sheetrock in her house when the neighbor came over, which apparently he stops by pretty much everytime they're working on it. Pretty much all he did was talk about how we should do this or that and how my brother and I were burning daylight when we were watching my dad measure out the room we needed to insulate. I pretty much wanted to tell him to go fuck himself. It's not your business. It's free help. We'll do it how we want, at the pace we want and that's what's up. I think he might have been an LSE but he just instantly annoyed me.

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Originally Posted by cinq

What type is most likely to impulsively offer advice to anyone, even when it's clear the advice is unwanted? What type is most likely to react strongly to unwanted advice?

Is it type related?

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I think SLIs are quick to offer too much help, lacking the sense to just offer empathy or sympathy. I try to stop myself when I start a sentence with, "You should...," as in:

"Your Uncle died? You should be sure to have the mail stopped." :shifty:

For some reason I associate this with Ej temperament. My LSE mom does that and I do the same.

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Originally Posted by Cyrano

I think SLIs are quick to offer too much help, lacking the sense to just offer empathy or sympathy. I try to stop myself when I start a sentence with, "You should...," as in:

"Your Uncle died? You should be sure to have the mail stopped." :shifty:

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Cyrano

"Your Uncle died? You should be sure to have the mail stopped." :shifty:

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hilarious. :)

Unwanted Advice: Is it Joy related?

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Originally Posted by Pied Piper

I think we perceive the issue in different manners, IMO what you say is like:

You can't say "should" when there is no objective justification for it. This ends-up differently, Te is not used on strangers, or situations you don't have facts to have a certain opinion. As long as cinq used "impulsively" and "strangers" (in her second post), I assume that it's not about the case you talk about (hence why I used "off-topic" for it :P).

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Oh. OK. Thanks for the advice.

As a Te PoLR, I strongly abhor it when people try to give me unsolicited advice.

My thoughts on this is that people tend to ask for advice on their weak areas, and give advice on their strong areas (pretty obvious, huh?). But that means that unwanted advice isn't really a type-related thing, but rather it's the contents of the advice what varies between different types. So Fe types might be patronizing about Fe stuff (Ti types will like it, Te types won't) and so on for each type. My guess is that since imparting advice requires you to notice external situations (you give advice to others based on what you think is a flaw in their actions or something you think could be improved in their situation) it's probably more frequent on Extraverted types.
I give people advice all the time, sometimes as a small talk kind-of-thing, say, maybe they're telling me about some project or something they've been working on and I give advice on how to do things better or differently (usually positive and non-critical). If I know someone better I'll give more critical advice, even if they didn't ask for it. I figure that since they're talking to me about something important to them, they wouldn't mind if I helped make it better. I don't think anyone complained before about it so I keep doing it. People ask me about things a lot and I don't mind giving my opinion, unless it's political crap or emotionally charged controversial stuff.

I always hear about how people hate receiving advice but I kind of like it. I mean I guess it depends on how its delivered because like little timmy says it can take many different forms, but I usually think if someone takes the time to give advice and they're not just doing it to hear themselves speak, I appreciate their input. I think what happens is a lot of people receive advice that is little more than veiled condescension, like the advice is not really meant to help so much as remind you how stupid you are. In this sense advice needs to be predicated on having listened and appreciating the advisee first. Like you need to be offering it out of understanding for their situation and with real concern; if that's not the case then its little more than an insult, because you never took the time to understand who you were talking to to begin with. many many times people have told me stuff I thought was really thoughtful, and even when I thought whatever they said was genuinely useless I still liked that they were trying. Honestly if it was genuinely useless I probably didn't give them enough facts to go off of to begin with, assuming they were interested in listening, thus its sort of my fault anyway. I don't think there's that many narcissists running around just trying to offer useless advice, because that actually hurts them too. They try to calibrate their advice based on their strong side because they want to hear how right and insightful they are. That is the payoff for them, so it doesn't feed their narcissism very well if everyone thinks theyre a blowhard. I honestly think people sometimes have a hard time digesting advice because they don't understand it, and assume there was nothing there to begin with, and the other person is just jerking themselves off, but thats an attribution they're making to cover for their own confusion, and its at the other persons expense.

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Originally Posted by cinq

What type is most likely to impulsively offer advice to anyone, even when it's clear the advice is unwanted? What type is most likely to react strongly to unwanted advice?

Is it type related?

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Probably to some extent but any type can be guilty of this. I am going to assume you mean the information-poor, vague type of advice here, which is not really advice, just personal reflections and sayings.

Nobody likes to be told "you're not going to get anywhere if you are sad".
"toughen up or people will think you're a loser"
"if you don't have a job noone will be attracted to you"

But they might like to hear:

"If you want to be happy, here's what you can try"
"If you want to be tougher, here's what you can do"
"If you want to get a job, here's who you can ring"

An even better approach is to make no comment at all, but just take action to affect the change you'd like to see.

If you think someone needs to be happier, go out drinking and clubbing with them.
If you think someone needs to be tougher, invite them to a boxing class.
If you think someone needs to get a job, offer to act as a referee for them.

If they turn you down, well, at least you can genuinely say that you tried to help.

At the very least, everyone should try and change the way they talk away from passing judgement. Talk less and do more.