IEIs/INFps: imagination, aloofness, and being dreamy

Are there any IEI’s out there that have experienced becoming a victim of their own imagination? I have been imagining lots of future scenarios recently so much so that I had convinced myself that they were going to happen and it has just dawned on me that I’m not living in reality.:(
Also I’m very aloof and it’s really starting to frustrate me! I was in a 3 hr meeting and all I said was hello and goodbye. :shock:Every-time I wanted to say something I missed my chance...sigh. They must all think I’m a mute or a simpleton.:oops: Are other IEI’s aloof or is it just me? If so does it frustrate the hell out of you too?:mad:

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Originally Posted by IEI

Are there any IEI’s out there that have experienced becoming a victim of their own imagination? I have been imagining lots of future scenarios recently so much so that I had convinced myself that they were going to happen and it has just dawned on me that I’m not living in reality.:(

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Keep guardians in your mind! One such guardian is the word ACTION.
Think about a duality of AWARENESS and ACTION and try to increase both.
Keep asking yourself constantly "What's the next ACTION?" "What SMALL thing I can do in order to move myself closer to one of these nice futures?"

Look attentively at the following clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEIfMqM5wnM

Change only happens if you keep change in your mind.

We become what we think about and I think us IEIs need to constantly remind ourselves to ACT!

I agree Octopuslove I am in two minds about this also. One part of me feels ridiculous and disappointed after my reality check and another part misses the fantasy and wants to dream up something new to fill the happiness void. :? Many times when I imagine scenarios they become real which is great if they are positive as I get pleasure from picturing them and an extra bonus if they become a self fulfilling prophecy. Generally this only happens with goals I set myself it’s usually a negative experience when I apply my imagination to relationships. I dream up the perfect scenario then I feel disappointed when it doesn’t live up to my expectations. I can avoid bad scenarios if I picture things that I don’t want to happen by putting some corrective measures in place to try to steer away from the direction I’m heading in. The downside is imagining bad things can create unnecessary worry and anxiety. Can we not just have the good without the bad??? Cake and eat it anyone?? :D
Thanks for the film Sigma you have hit the nail on the head too. I really need to focus on awareness and action :Se: I think this will become my daily mantra! Often I sit about day dreaming :Ni:. I have had many fascinating experiences in my head but an ordinary life in reality, if I turned half of my dreams into real experiences many books could be written.:lol:

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We become what we think about and I think us IEIs need to constantly remind ourselves to ACT!

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Wait a minute. *time out sign* You can't act just to act. You have to have proper action. 'Just doing it' when your insides are a mess will only lead to messed up results. It's more of what the Law of Attraction says. You are a vibration being primarily.

May I suggest meditation?

When your mind and fantasizes are going crazy you have to realize the part of you that is truly indestructible, the true you.

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Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

Wait a minute. *time out sign* You can't act just to act. You have to have proper action. 'Just doing it' when your insides are a mess will only lead to messed up results. It's more of what the Law of Attraction says. You are a vibration being primarily.

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I didn't said "just do it!" :) I said "remind ourselves to ACT!", big difference!

Also, meditation is Action! If you want to play the piano, you must act and start some lessons. After you learn, you still need to practice.
Meditation is practice for proper living.

That is great advice sigma - "remind ourselves to ACT!"

I can be in an Ni trance and literally have to tell myself "Do it now!"

I definitely experience being a victim of my own imagination. I guess it's a coping mechanism. I can retreat to my own thoughts etc and everything is fine. The sad fact is reality doesn't always follow suit. And most of the time it's because of my inaction in real life.

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Also, meditation is Action! If you want to play the piano, you must act and start some lessons. After you learn, you still need to practice.
Meditation is practice for proper living.

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Well yes, meditation is extremely helpful for me. Also it helps to look at yourself from an unbiased objective standpoint. See yourself as how God sees you. Then the path will be revealed unto you.

"I am not this thought."

Thanks everyone for your replies. It's nice to know that I'm not the only person with this experience. I have not tried meditation yet (will give it a go and see how I get on) but I have been forcing myself to do more (it really has helped lift my mood). Bit of a shock when I started looking around and working out what needed done. I discovered there has been a large bit of wood in my second bedroom (left over from decorating) that I didn't even notice was still there (worked out it has been there for 6 months) :shock:

I was sure I had put it in the bin :confused:

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Originally Posted by IEI

I discovered there has been a large bit of wood in my second bedroom (left over from decorating) that I didn't even notice was still there (worked out it has been there for 6 months) :shock:

I was sure I had put it in the bin :confused:

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That sounds like the kind of thing an IEI I know does...
I see this IEI every day in the mirror but it keeps surprising me with shit like that. ;)

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Originally Posted by sigma

That sounds like the kind of thing an IEI I know does...
I see this IEI every day in the mirror but it keeps surprising me with shit like that. ;)

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lol...I wish I had a camera to send you a picture it's a huge bit of wood about the size of a table top that can sit 6 people.

Oh yeah and it's still there! :lol:

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Originally Posted by IEI

Are there any IEI’s out there that have experienced becoming a victim of their own imagination? I have been imagining lots of future scenarios recently so much so that I had convinced myself that they were going to happen and it has just dawned on me that I’m not living in reality.:(
Also I’m very aloof and it’s really starting to frustrate me! I was in a 3 hr meeting and all I said was hello and goodbye. :shock:Every-time I wanted to say something I missed my chance...sigh. They must all think I’m a mute or a simpleton.:oops: Are other IEI’s aloof or is it just me? If so does it frustrate the hell out of you too?:mad:

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This is my life, pretty much, even more than usual lately given certain life circumstances. I live in the future. It's so comfortable, yet scary. It's the transition from imaginary to real that's so upsetting. Sometimes I wish it weren't necessary to leave that world, not because it's always so great, it isn't always. I've noticed that I've begun to fill it with just as much bad as good (if not more), as a result of the continuing disappointment of life, of things never living up to how I feel them in my mind. I've become bitter and fearful, expecting failure at every turn. I've tried to kill my instinct to dream by telling myself to be more realistic, but all that has done is turn my wishful thinking into dread. I still daydream, I can't help it, but now more than ever I hear the voice of fear whisper in my ear "stop falling for it, it will never happen, wake up and accept that this is all there is". So, instead of stepping out of my thoughts and making things happen, I've dragged the bad of the world in with me.

I relate to every word of the second paragraph also. I always feel very unnatural in a setting like that and am overly sensitive to what others may be thinking of me. Very self-conscious. I live in so much internal anxiety, mentally trying to talk myself into participating, but making such a big deal out of it to myself that I freeze up even more. And then I feel more and more unable to do anything about it as time passes and I am convinced (justifiably or not), that everyone else is as accutely aware of my ineptitude as me. To me, it's like taking a snail out of its shell and telling it "now you must go and live out in the open and have no fear". How is the snail supposed to live carelessly after having been removed from its natural habitat and not feel exposed?! I feel exposed. :redface:

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Originally Posted by Sirena

This is my life, pretty much, even more than usual lately given certain life circumstances. I live in the future. It's so comfortable, yet scary. It's the transition from imaginary to real that's so upsetting. Sometimes I wish it weren't necessary to leave that world, not because it's always so great, it isn't always. I've noticed that I've begun to fill it with just as much bad as good (if not more), as a result of the continuing disappointment of life, of things never living up to how I feel them in my mind. I've become bitter and fearful, expecting failure at every turn. I've tried to kill my instinct to dream by telling myself to be more realistic, but all that has done is turn my wishful thinking into dread. I still daydream, I can't help it, but now more than ever I hear the voice of fear whisper in my ear "stop falling for it, it will never happen, wake up and accept that this is all there is". So, instead of stepping out of my thoughts and making things happen, I've dragged the bad of the world in with me.

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That sounds like how I normally am :)

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I relate to every word of the second paragraph also. I always feel very unnatural in a setting like that and am overly sensitive to what others may be thinking of me. Very self-conscious. I live in so much internal anxiety, mentally trying to talk myself into participating, but making such a big deal out of it to myself that I freeze up even more. And then I feel more and more unable to do anything about it as time passes and I am convinced (justifiably or not), that everyone else is as accutely aware of my ineptitude as me. To me, it's like taking a snail out of its shell and telling it "now you must go and live out in the open and have no fear". How is the snail supposed to live carelessly after having been removed from its natural habitat and not feel exposed?! I feel exposed. :redface:

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Naked and fearless!

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Originally Posted by mercutio

That sounds like how I normally am :)
Really?? No way!


Naked and fearless!

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Ah merks, you're so full of contradictions! So complex! hehehe

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Originally Posted by Sirena

Ah merks, you're so full of contradictions! So complex! hehehe

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", as a result of the continuing disappointment of life, of things never living up to how I feel them in my mind. I've become bitter and fearful, expecting failure at every turn. I've tried to kill my instinct to dream by telling myself to be more realistic, but all that has done is turn my wishful thinking into dread."

I relate to that - except

I'm kind of energetic tsill.

And I kind of "don't know how things are going to be in the future".

Like I have a kind of narrow scope of the future...

I kind of often expect failure, but then it's like I kind of feel a little better when things turn out "reasonably well" rather than "completely bad".

And I don't know if I really dream that much.

Except in mornings sometimes recently I've been having strange thougths :)

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Originally Posted by mercutio

", as a result of the continuing disappointment of life, of things never living up to how I feel them in my mind. I've become bitter and fearful, expecting failure at every turn. I've tried to kill my instinct to dream by telling myself to be more realistic, but all that has done is turn my wishful thinking into dread."

I relate to that - except

I'm kind of energetic tsill.

And I kind of "don't know how things are going to be in the future".

Like I have a kind of narrow scope of the future...

I kind of often expect failure, but then it's like I kind of feel a little better when things turn out "reasonably well" rather than "completely bad".
And I don't know if I really dream that much.

Except in mornings sometimes recently I've been having strange thougths :)

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When people say things like this, I can sense that it's different for me because no matter how bitter I become, I can never truly accept that there isn't more, better, best. In my heart, I'll always dream of that, it's my natural state. On the other hand, you seem comfortable with the idea of expecting failure. You can truly say that you're pleasantly surprised if things turn out great. But even if I try to talk myself out of it, I would've hoped for that all along. I never truly expect my musings and dreams to not come true, which means that realistically I'm destined to always feel disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Sirena

When people say things like this, I can sense that it's different for me because no matter how bitter I become, I can never truly accept that there isn't more, better, best. In my heart, I'll always dream of that, it's my natural state. On the other hand, you seem comfortable with the idea of expecting failure. You can truly say that you're pleasantly surprised if things turn out great. But even if I try to talk myself out of it, I would've hoped for that all along. I never truly expect my musings and dreams to not come true, which means that realistically I'm destined to always feel disappointed.

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may as well let you down then

here, have a noose.

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Originally Posted by mercutio

may as well let you down then

here, have a noose.

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:eek::lol:

....or, you could make all my dreams come true. :p

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Originally Posted by Sirena

:eek::lol:

....or, you could make all my dreams come true. :p

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or we could just dispose of you.

Tyler Durden: It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

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Originally Posted by mercutio

or we could just dispose of you.

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in a body bag in a field of daisies?

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Originally Posted by Sirena

in a body bag in a field of daisies?

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nah, hang you naked from a tree, with a noose around your leg

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Originally Posted by mercutio

Tyler Durden: It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

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An INFp told me yesterday, "I want to destroy something beautiful" -Fight club

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Originally Posted by mercutio

nah, hang you naked from a tree, with a noose around your leg

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how poetic! :lol: dying of head rush.

p.s. love the quote

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Originally Posted by 07490

An INFp told me yesterday, "I want to destroy something beautiful" -Fight club

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Narrator: What do you do?
Tyler Durden: What do you mean?
Narrator: What do you do for a living?
Tyler Durden: Why? So you can pretend like you're interested?

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Originally Posted by Sirena

how poetic! :lol: dying of head rush.

p.s. love the quote

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don't fall head over feet

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Originally Posted by mercutio

Narrator: What do you do?
Tyler Durden: What do you mean?
Narrator: What do you do for a living?
Tyler Durden: Why? So you can pretend like you're interested?

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Maybe he is really interested ;-)

[QUOTE=Sirena;534692]I still daydream, I can't help it, but now more than ever I hear the voice of fear whisper in my ear "stop falling for it, it will never happen, wake up and accept that this is all there is". So, instead of stepping out of my thoughts and making things happen, I've dragged the bad of the world in with me. QUOTE]

A few years ago a MBTI INTP friend of mine shared this poem with me, it makes me feel a bit better every time I read it.

Desiderata - by max ehrmann
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann c.1920

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Originally Posted by Sirena

I relate to every word of the second paragraph also. I always feel very unnatural in a setting like that and am overly sensitive to what others may be thinking of me. Very self-conscious. I live in so much internal anxiety, mentally trying to talk myself into participating, but making such a big deal out of it to myself that I freeze up even more. And then I feel more and more unable to do anything about it as time passes and I am convinced (justifiably or not), that everyone else is as accutely aware of my ineptitude as me. To me, it's like taking a snail out of its shell and telling it "now you must go and live out in the open and have no fear". How is the snail supposed to live carelessly after having been removed from its natural habitat and not feel exposed?! I feel exposed.

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Recently I have discovered if I am doing something in meeting such as tapping my foot, playing with a pen or tapping my fingers on the desk I am MUCH more confident. I think it distracts my mind from looking inside to check if I'm feeling confident and coming back with a resounding "no of course your not!" :) . Only tried it a couple of times so not sure if it's a permanent fix will test it out in a few more meetings :)

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Originally Posted by IEI

Recently I have discovered if I am doing something in meeting such as tapping my foot, playing with a pen or tapping my fingers on the desk I am MUCH more confident. I think it distracts my mind from looking inside to check if I'm feeling confident and coming back with a resounding "no of course your not!" :) . Only tried it a couple of times so not sure if it's a permanent fix will test it out in a few more meetings :)

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curious with some people i kind of tap a bit.

but then i sometimes stomp, or raise my voice, or kind force more energy to my hand sometimes.

but really i don't have to move to be confident really. it's more to get someone else's attention.

anyway, generally speaking when it's harder is when one isn't in the conversation group. like if you look at each person in the eyes a little bit, bar one person, that one person will find it harder to engage. and when they do they're more likely to feel liek they won't be well received. so they're less likely to be well received.

in that kind of case, doing some kind of change or motion to shift focus onto you before speaking, and creating your own opening can mean that you'll be more confident that you'll be well received as you present your opinion.

Also with confidence you may want to being "confident enough" or, "confident" rather than questioning whether you are confident, or are lacking in areas. Decide instead that you're confident, and just assume that other's aren't necessarily confident, and "help" them be more confident, by presenting things in ways that they can understand or relate to.

I sometimes stomp, or raise my voice, or kind force more energy to my hand sometimes.

lol I would love to be able to stomp it sounds like fun. You're spot on with describing the difficulty of engaging in a conversation once it's started if you're left on the sidelines. I hate trying to get included as I always get the feeling people are thinking "oh you're going to say something now" and generally I interrupt the flow of the conversation. Some really good tips here thanks for posting I will give them a try.

I keep making plans to look forward to (and good ones too I might add) and then figure out ways to extricate myself from these plans because I have more pressing matters to deal with, in the sense of working (metaphorically) on an awesome new plan

Is there any INFp here who doesn't daydream? It is a simple but highly debatable topic, people just refused daydreaming as a simple explanation to Ni. We should get the fact right if any INFp can say for sure that their minds doesn't wander.

Personally, I know my mind is very prone to "wander off" from the here and now. My mind somehow always just reminds me of things, as much as I don't want it to ahppen it comes very naturally to me. Simply sitting down for a long period of time and a bit of effort to stimulate what I'm thinking can result in a "completely lost in my own little world".

Hi. I'm new to the forum but this caught my attention. I am an INFP and I am a major daydreamer. I've always been curious about the process and started researching it several years ago. My book on the topic was just published in May by Capital Books. It's called Daydreams at Work: Wake Up Your Creative Powers, and you can read a lot more about it at my website, including the opening chapter. DAYDREAMS AT WORK: Wake Up Your Creative Powers by Amy Fries
I'm also doing a blog on PsychologyToday.com on the Power of Daydreaming.
Thanks. Amy Fries

I am naturally prone to day-dreaming, but don't relate it much to being INFp. I feel like it can both enhance my reflections of things and detract from my concentration on activities. I never choose to do it; things just occur to me, and I get pulled away. But I've been trying to temper it recently, because it is ultimately pretty useless, and a sorry excuse for real experience.

Daydreamin is a vital creative tool for me: i get off on some symbolic/impressionistic vein in my head, i dwell on it for a while, and soon enough I get into the zone and start thinking "hey, this is good enough to put down," so I start writing and then things REALLY start coming to me and I just GO :)

I dont really daydream at work; sometimes I will get an unignorable glimpse by seeing a kind of person, hearing something, etc, of something that whisks me into some abstract meme or world that I have had on my brain, but for the most part I either stay busy or talk to coworkers.

lol abstract meme. Shut up :lol:

IMO, everybody daydreams...

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Originally Posted by IEI

Are there any IEI’s out there that have experienced becoming a victim of their own imagination? I have been imagining lots of future scenarios recently so much so that I had convinced myself that they were going to happen and it has just dawned on me that I’m not living in reality.:(
Also I’m very aloof and it’s really starting to frustrate me! I was in a 3 hr meeting and all I said was hello and goodbye. :shock:Every-time I wanted to say something I missed my chance...sigh. They must all think I’m a mute or a simpleton.:oops: Are other IEI’s aloof or is it just me? If so does it frustrate the hell out of you too?:mad:

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Yep. But when and why depends. I find that if I'm not aloof then some are likely to mistake niceness for stupidity, and try to take advantage. But if you act a bit like a tough cookie and seem to be above it all, some will have more respect for you. Not something I want to have to do, but it often seems necessary.

.....

lol. I don't think that the dreamy bit is exaggerated really. I'm quite dreamy... at times. I just also know how to work. I will say that the work aspect has come a lot through education, through being taught, rather than through natural aptitude.

Anyway, yes, the descriptions can be somewhat unbalanced, and just because you're actually capable of going out and doing things in the real world, does not mean you're not IEI. And it's not necessarily overdeveloped Ti. In fact, the thing that you said about not wanting to fool yourself is very much related to Ni metacognition (I'm very focused on not letting myself deceive myself). I think the capacity to go beyond this sort of ideal world and to touch the ground long enough to, you know, be alive and not float around in the clouds all the time (and who will you talk to, but the birds, and the occasional teacherly angel, with horn-rimmed glasses and her hair pulled back in a smart bun?) isn't related to a particular socionics function, but to growing as a human being period. A lot of it is just not being inert/lazy.

They somewhat exaggerate, but it's not like they have a lot more to go on. From what I recall, there's no way an IEI wrote those descriptions, and the drawbacks of Augusta's reductionism are obvious.

Basically what you have is a tendency to conceptualize 'real' events in mythical extensions; in this way scenarios begin to repeat themselves, and it's through this ideational consistency that the IEI can actually begin to see their relevance. Thus, the "aid" of an SLE comes not from machismo pressure and bitch-slaps (frankly, I loathe anyone who tries to 'push' me into anything - and inducing kinetic energy is a dynamic mentality, i.e. LSE), but giving very simple and concrete indicators of where the IEI actually stands. Now the IEI is forced to meld their 'myths' with what is undeniably present, which makes the internal progression of it all more meaningful for the SLE.

I will admit that I would probably die without daydreams, but that's only because people are stupid and lack aesthetic sensibilities. :)

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Originally Posted by silverchris9

and who will you talk to, but the birds, and the occasional teacherly angel, with horn-rimmed glasses and her hair pulled back in a smart bun?

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the birds are always fun lol

Real IEI description:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Socioscope_IEI

I don't consider myself "dreamy" either. And as for poetry, I've always been better with nuances in timbre or melody, if anything. Not diction. I can identify with strnnng's post, and I understand what he means about the conceptualizing, and seeing reality in mythical expressions, but it's not all that pronounced. I'm still here. I know what "reality" is. I'm getting close to retyping ISFp or ISTp. Fuck it. Less baggage anyways. I could be an individual that way at least, instead of some mystical "faggy" poet in a waistcoat, with a psychotic blowhard rapist for a dual. This shit ain't gonna work out. Lemme tell ya.. :ew:

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Originally Posted by stray

And as for poetry, I've always been better with nuances in timbre or melody, if anything. Not diction.

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Yeah, whenever I've written poetry it's been based on a feel of the meter and syllabic harmony; it seemed intuitive to me that the inherent rhythm of words would produce the right ideas?

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I could be an individual that way at least, instead of some mystical "faggy" poet in a waistcoat, with a psychotic blowhard rapist for a dual. This shit ain't gonna work out. Lemme tell ya.. :ew:

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lmfao. I would prefer a dual who knows how to act and doesn't expect me to. :lol: That way I can just guide them and they can give me drugs and such.

I write on sound a lot too, which is why I end up gravitating towards iambic pentameter. I write on sound and ideas. Picking the right word is as much about the sound and how it fits in the rhythm of the line as anything else. I've written lots of poems that were sound poems only, that were, as far as I can tell, more rhetorical than meaning based, or at least more rhetorical than planned.

What is diction beyond how a word sounds? The meaning matters of course, but I don't consciously pay attention to anything but the subjective feel of how the line sounds and what I'm trying to communicate. I guess diction is the bridge between those two, but like I said, I don't focus on that... shrug.

Then again, I do pick up on word nuances, so I see what you're saying. Like, I notice how the word confess means both to take confession from and to confess to. Or the difference between confess and admit, beyond just the sound of the two words. They do mean something slightly different. Confess is more heightened, probably because of the legal and religious associations. So yeah, I guess I do pay attention to the words part of poetry as separate from both sound and idea. Shrug. Changed my mind in the course of the pun.

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the birds are always fun lol

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Depends on what kind of bird. I find mockingbirds insufferable. And lark farts are the worst. AND they tend to be gassy, so you know. Thrushes are okay, and when I come across a phoenix I always stop to have a conversation, but afterwards I check my pulse 'cause I might be dead or crazy. But I try never to be too sure about whether or not I am; my feet burn like fire when they touch the ground.

well diction is just an extension of inherent rhythm. the genesis of language is a distortion of certain wave frequencies to express what has already been internally filtered (largely by the CNS, hence the 'vertical' nature of speech); there is no 'meaning' until what has already been understood primordially begins to arrange itself according to its own rules; the subject has to grasp them heuristically. this is how 'images' (imagos) differentiate, i.e. sound frequencies fade into what one would perceive as moving photographs, hence color having direct relations to pitch (along with the fact that visual perceptions are registered in the lower-most portion of the hindbrain, after being reversed through the retinal lenses and optic tracks, i.e. you see what you already did). you can find older occult/religious texts alluding to these processes with the metaphors about 'the word' and 'the breath,' even though most literature has diluted them.

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Originally Posted by Gilly

Real IEI description:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Socioscope_IEI

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yes! :love:

Dreams and visions aren't bad things. Reality is largely what you choose and make something to be.

Haven't you ever set your mind on something that simply no matter what's going to happen here, you're gonna keep a pleasant mood about it? And your upbeat attitude was sort of infections and it caused everybody to lighten up about whatever endeavor they were trying to get themselves involved in?

You just changed reality, on such a high level...

You say it lacks realism. Bulshit. It's actually more objectively real than anything you could do. And furthermore, a stinking pile of shit is real. It doesn't mean one should stick their head in the 'shit' just because it's "Real" something that annoys me about esfjs. Why would anybody do that, heaven forbid just because it's 'Real.'

They're doing that because they have such a strong belief that real life is always 'hard and painful' and so if they're not continuously putting their head in 'filth' then they're not living or something. They're being a weak, emo pussy.

Dreams have just as much of a substance core as the outside world, as long as it's honest. And even if it's not all that honest so what. A plastic tree is still a tree nonetheless even if it wasn't a tree grown from the ground. The point is that it's all real. Or it wouldn't have happened.

And bad things will come. But sometimes we hold onto those painful bad things because we think that it means something and that it made us tougher but now it's just this heavy lead that's dragging us down. It's called getting over it, feeling the pain and simply....moving on. Letting the clogged turds finally flush down the toilet.

And then this esfj got jealous and upset with me because I wanted to spend all day doing nothing but playing video games , like excuse me but instead of being jealous why don't you sit your butt right over here and join me. =/ lol.

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Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

Dreams and visions aren't bad things. Reality is largely what you choose and make something to be.

Haven't you ever set your mind on something that simply no matter what's going to happen here, you're gonna keep a pleasant mood about it? And your upbeat attitude was sort of infections and it caused everybody to lighten up about whatever endeavor they were trying to get themselves involved in?

You just changed reality, on such a high level...

You say it lacks realism. Bulshit. It's actually more objectively real than anything you could do. And furthermore, a stinking pile of shit is real. It doesn't mean one should stick their head in the 'shit' just because it's "Real" something that annoys me about esfjs. Why would anybody do that, heaven forbid just because it's 'Real.'

They're doing that because they have such a strong belief that real life is always 'hard and painful' and so if they're not continuously putting their head in 'filth' then they're not living or something. They're being a weak, emo pussy.

Dreams have just as much of a substance core as the outside world, as long as it's honest. And even if it's not all that honest so what. A plastic tree is still a tree nonetheless even if it wasn't a tree grown from the ground. The point is that it's all real. Or it wouldn't have happened.

And bad things will come. But sometimes we hold onto those painful bad things because we think that it means something and that it made us tougher but now it's just this heavy lead that's dragging us down. It's called getting over it, feeling the pain and simply....moving on. Letting the clogged turds finally flush down the toilet.

And then this esfj got jealous and upset with me because I wanted to spend all day doing nothing but playing video games , like excuse me but instead of being jealous why don't you sit your butt right over here and join me. =/ lol.

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:love::love::love:

"do not look for the meaning of their words, listen to their music!"

"the soul is always stretched taut like a string, which at any moment will break with the ringing! and it will be turned into echo...no music, and life! Ready? Then go."

OMG I never read this before:

"Unfortunately, in the childhood it can reveal strong conformism, constant readiness to be joined in the voice of majority. In this case its basic vital rule acquires new sounding - to think “as all” do, to act “as all” do, in nothing not to be separated and not to lag behind these “all”. And it turns out that its personality to a great extent is the product of medium and environment significant for it. It becomes sufficiently noncritical to the information, which enters from without. Everything will be true for it, that speak “their”, which it is inclined to idealize. "

:(:(:(

that's me.

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Originally Posted by redbaron

"do not look for the meaning of their words, listen to their music!"

"the soul is always stretched taut like a string, which at any moment will break with the ringing! and it will be turned into echo...no music, and life! Ready? Then go."

OMG I never read this before:

"Unfortunately, in the childhood it can reveal strong conformism, constant readiness to be joined in the voice of majority. In this case its basic vital rule acquires new sounding - to think “as all” do, to act “as all” do, in nothing not to be separated and not to lag behind these “all”. And it turns out that its personality to a great extent is the product of medium and environment significant for it. It becomes sufficiently noncritical to the information, which enters from without. Everything will be true for it, that speak “their”, which it is inclined to idealize. "

:(:(:(

that's me.

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I don't see my self much different as a child than I am now. Worse in some ways. I didn't have much respect for people's property, for one. I stole a lot. Otherwise, maybe too many of the pressures around me demanded so much conformism that it just backfired.. for example, my dad was a military guy who wanted to give his son crew cuts and be good at all of the sports he was. I mean, I love my dad, but you can see how that would play out. And I didn't do well with peers either. If they were all tight rolling the bottom of their jeans and dancing to Rob Base, I was wondering wtf was wrong with them. One of the first people I looked up to was this headbanger that hung around outside a bowling alley my parents went to. He kind of reminded me of Charlie Sheen in Ferris Bueller's. He taught me how to slamdance. I told him one day that I wanted to be just like him.. but that stressed him out, I think. He knew he was a fuckup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redbaron

"do not look for the meaning of their words, listen to their music!"

"the soul is always stretched taut like a string, which at any moment will break with the ringing! and it will be turned into echo...no music, and life! Ready? Then go."

OMG I never read this before:

"Unfortunately, in the childhood it can reveal strong conformism, constant readiness to be joined in the voice of majority. In this case its basic vital rule acquires new sounding - to think “as all” do, to act “as all” do, in nothing not to be separated and not to lag behind these “all”. And it turns out that its personality to a great extent is the product of medium and environment significant for it. It becomes sufficiently noncritical to the information, which enters from without. Everything will be true for it, that speak “their”, which it is inclined to idealize. "

:(:(:(

that's me.

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That's non-partisan Ni for you.

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Originally Posted by eliza

Does anyone else think the descriptions of IEI in socionics exagerates the whole "dreamy" "hopless romantic" "poetic" traits to a point where you can't fully relate to ths socionic type?

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The "idealistic dreamer" part I believe comes from having Se as lowest-order valued function. It leads to a sort of dissociation with the present concrete physical world in favor of an internalized abstraction of it. Problem is that nobody else can see that particular abstraction besides yourself, hence it is compared to a dream or an idealized image of course. I can't really contend that one, but to note that a small portion of these abstractions do turn into ideas of actual merit (hence the famous IEIs personalities).

The part about being "poetic" if taken literally applies only to INFJs with verbal cognitive style. I can count the amount of poems I've written in my life on one hand.

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Originally Posted by eliza

I completely relate to Myers-Briggs INFJ description and use of the main functions.

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really? the MBTI description told me that I am supposed to be psychic and have prophetic dreams ... but I guess that's an upgrade from the faggy poet who is waiting to get raped that stray is describing

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Originally Posted by eliza

I think my Ti's developed as I've gotten older and socionics overlooks that, maybe.

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socionics doesn't go into this, but from what I've observed mobilizing IE does become stronger starting around early-to-mid 20s ... though Ti doesn't really grant any more objectivity, quite to the contrary

I didn't really relate to that conformity part per se, but I do often shift my mood and expression to the environment, both for efficiency and to surface various aspects of myself. So many roles, might as well just revel in them all.

I change huge aspects of myself depending on my environment. But I never change the absolute core of myself; I try not to change that even from when I was a child, although sometimes I have to, but at least it's voluntary and/or extremely gradual and therefore continuous. So long as there's a part of me that doesn't change with my environment, I don't mind conforming.

So it sounds kind of typical. I'm just not like this, for better or worse. Not that I try to go out of my way to be uber-independent or difficult, but I guess I have more traits that reflects more of that than not.

I always associated the blending with Type 9 like qualities. I thought it could be Alpha SF/"+Fe" too, but I'm not sure what to think about that yet.

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Originally Posted by silverchris9

I change huge aspects of myself depending on my environment. But I never change the absolute core of myself; I try not to change that even from when I was a child, although sometimes I have to, but at least it's voluntary and/or extremely gradual and therefore continuous. So long as there's a part of me that doesn't change with my environment, I don't mind conforming.

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Yeah, I figure if you can feel yourself in every moment, you're only lost in the revelation itself.

I tend to spend a lot of time in the innerworld of my imagination. It is a place to retreat to when the real world becomes hectic, and something I need to do to keep sane. Of course, it's a balance of being in the real world, keeping to myself, and bouncing ideas around. Being in my own world also helps me come up with ideas for my creative projects.

They tend to come when I least expect them. While it is usually a positive, when under stress or dealing with difficult people is when I tend to imagine worst-case scenario situations. There are times when these thoughts come true but a lot of the time, it's just overthinking and projection. Once my mind is clear, I am better at seeing things for what they are. I prepare in advanced for what I will say to people, how situations will play out.

Listening to music, reading a book, drinking a coffee help when stress leads to this. While I tend to be future oriented, there are a lot of unknowns in the longterm which can be scary when these things rear their heads.

Imagination endows booming chronicles of fine tuning and spell weaving for marking the tamed puffed up clouds.

To always be thinking, looking within, snoring into oceanic crayolas and souvenir praying anchors any enigma to the soul strand of conception by rose fleeting dreams of the highest dawn, no matter how underpowered or forgotten of a piece in the milky way.

IEI imagination is only shitty when it's delusional or not grounded in any reality. Hit up your Se, check in with your Fe.

I have wondered how they are uniquely dreamy..? or dwell more in their imagination I mean - relative to other NFs?

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Originally Posted by Stray Cat

IEI imagination is only shitty when it's delusional or not grounded in any reality. Hit up your Se, check in with your Fe.

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Yeah, what's the point in imagining things if you can't do them?

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Originally Posted by Stray Cat

IEI imagination is only shitty when it's delusional or not grounded in any reality. Hit up your Se, check in with your Fe.

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I don’t think that I am an IEI, but EIE-Ni is likely.

I would definitely say that my imagination often involves Se in the sense that I think of having control, strenuous activity, and achievement.

A weakness that I have to work on is to stop thinking about ways to gain control.

my imagination has helped me make decisions that aren't immediately obvious to make based on present circumstances, which is great. "Hm... it would make sense to do this, but what if I didn't and did something completely different and surprised myself and everyone?" <-- my line of thinking. Rational decisions can be too limiting and straightforward to the point of being misguided, so I just take a chance and do something batshit insane since it will probably go just as well anyways..

Having a large family of conservative logical delta STs really irritates me into regularly enticing chaos to fuck me in the ass. And I never take questions from anyone. You will just have to endure my psyche the way I endure it.

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Originally Posted by one

Not everything you imagine can be done. But they can give you insight.

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It's meaningless, unless the insight leads to something useful.

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Originally Posted by DEAD

It's meaningless, unless the insight leads to something useful.

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Well that applies to actions too

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Originally Posted by chocolatte

Well that applies to actions too

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Yeah, but it's better to act and do something about things than just waste time mentally masturbating over the situation.

You can act in the moment too, you know?

Even when actions don't lead directly in a direction you want, they lead in a direction that could go in a circuitous route or into a place yet to be mapped. They do *something*

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Originally Posted by DEAD

Yeah, but it's better to act and do something about things than just waste time mentally masturbating over the situation.

You can act in the moment too, you know?

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Yes and likewise, action without reflection can still be counterproductive.
Balance is best: Ni/Se and everything each entails don't oppose, but complement each other, so this is kind of a meaningless debate.

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Originally Posted by DEAD

Yeah, in theory it's best but not everyone can work like that.

Balance is hard to achieve, which I guess is why there is a creative function and duals, we'll agree there.

Who said it was a debate? I never did.

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Yeah, fair enough =)
From my POV, it's a discussion with two different perspectives, therefore a debate. I didn't mean we were arguing or anything.

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Originally Posted by chocolatte

Yeah, fair enough =)
From my POV, it's a discussion with two different perspectives, therefore a debate. I didn't mean we were arguing or anything

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Yeah, when I think of a debate it's like one of those YouTube videos, with a referee, introduction and the opposing sides. All structured, this is more us discussing our thoughts. To me anyway.

Decent points made, honestly. Ni can be very insightful & perceptive but does best with sufficient concrete data from reality

Se without complimentary Ni tends to be superficial. IF one has to overindulge, kinda better to do the lead but the reason we have 4 valued functions is that they can each bring some psychological satisfaction. If one has a buddy to help supplement that can be fuckin' awesome.

To me Ni/Se egos are about reflection/action allocation in terms of going towards the pot full of gold in the end of the rainbow. It is funny how you guys try to dodge it but still manage to spill it everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Decent points made, honestly. Ni can be very insightful & perceptive but does best with sufficient concrete data from reality

Se without complimentary Ni tends to be superficial. IF one has to overindulge, kinda better to do the lead but the reason we have 4 valued functions is that they can each bring some psychological satisfaction. If one has a buddy to help supplement that can be fuckin' awesome.

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Yeah, they say Ni works well with few informations, but that's only true if the person has a lot of info from the past to rely on. No one just randomly shits solutions or insights, they come from somewhere even if we can't track that place.
Ni is a dumb function you gotta build over time, you're never truly done building it. That has advantages and disadvantages, like all functions.
It gives a great imagination that you either direct or drown in.

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Originally Posted by flowers and sugar

Yeah, they say Ni works well with few informations, but that's only true if the person has a lot of info from the past to rely on. No one just randomly shits solutions or insights, they come from somewhere even if we can't track that place.
Ni is a dumb function you gotta build over time, you're never truly done building it. That has advantages and disadvantages, like all functions.
It gives a great imagination that you either direct or drown in.

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Yeah. No arguments there. Objective take by you

My IEI buddy got smitten by an EII on the 'net. One reason she dug him was his interest in flicks. He had a room exclusively for DVDs. In her mind, they'd meet & hit up the movie theater on the regular. Problem with that was this EII hated places like that, preferred being home. The IEi created this image in her mind that stemmed for one singular detail, a detail she cherry picked while ignoring contrary info. She attached symbolic meaning to the EII that her Ni created. Her Se was just used as a tool to feed the Ni monster.

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Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Yeah. No arguments there. Objective take by you

My IEI buddy got smitten by an EII on the 'net. One reason she dug him was his interest in flicks. He had a room exclusively for DVDs. In her mind, they'd meet & hit up the movie theater on the regular. Problem with that was this EII hated places like that, preferred being home. The IEi created this image in her mind that stemmed for one singular detail, a detail she cherry picked while ignoring contrary info. She attached symbolic meaning to the EII that her Ni created. Her Se was just used as a tool to feed the Ni monster.

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this gave me the satisfaction of feeling better than my IEI ex until i came to think about what Ni HA can do without Ne to see the other cherries

Meh, there's just many layers to this sort of thing.

Would you rather have a cheap plastic fork that easily breaks but is technically 'useful' by definition?
Would you rather eat with an expensive, orante looking fork that costs too much for what it actually does but you still like it cuz it makes you feel more sophisticated and better than other people?
Would you rather have a mediocre fork from Wal-mart that works/is useful in a very average way but kinda makes you feel dead inside due to your soulless middle class existance?
Would you rather supervise it up and think of an idea/scheme to exploit ppl to buy forks while you live in a rich mansion?
Would you rather 'just imagine' you had a fork- but you actually are homeless on the streets eating out of your hands because your Te was so bad?