Question for Ne types: How do you see Se-egos?

Not Ne at all, but I just think it depends heavily on the person.

I believe my father is SLE (lol, look at my type). There are times when we're just standing in line at someplace and the slightest inconvenience will set him off. I just stand there, embarrassed, asking myself why he can't just let it be. He knows I don't like when he does stuff like that so sometimes he will just look really angry but not say anything. His outbursts aggravate me sometimes more than scare me, but on the flip side he thinks I'm lazy and a bit cold, yet smart. He doesn't care that I'm reserved. As for spontaneous actions...yeah, he doesn't always think things through and just goes for it. If it isn't working, he tries for a while and tosses the plan.

My SLE friends act somewhat the same way, only I find them less abrasive since I can decide to take a break from them. Usually I'm just sitting down and one will run in wanting to do something stupid, and depending on my mood I'll join them or sit out. They fear getting into trouble FAR less than I do, since they believe they can work their way out of anything. Prolonged interaction makes me want to knock them in their teeth with some of the shit they say/do, usually when they mess with someone for no reason. Thankfully not all of them do this, but even the ones that don't seem to have too much aggression.

They aren't all that bad. As long as they aren't ruining my mood they're pretty fun to be around. Just don't take their shit, let them know you won't take their shit, and things will run more smoothly. They seem to respect you more if you can say "I'm not having that around me, not when I'm here" in a non-threatening, but firm, manner. The ones I get along best with turn their energy and drive into a positive element. If someone is shy, one will try his best to make the person feel welcome and not care all that much if they respond awkwardly. He occasionally still feels like punching random people because "he fucking looked at me funny!", but I'm just so used to it now I ignore it unless they actually plan to do it.

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Originally Posted by songofsappho

I have a question: Suppose you've met and seen Person A and Person B in action. Both have shown themselves to be equally intelligent, honest, and kind people. But Person A is content to live in a small, slightly shabby but generally comfortable apartment and plans to live a simple life there forever, while Person B is moving towards realizing his personal goal of being able to live in a penthouse [or whatever] with a very luxurious lifestyle which he neither flaunts nor tries to tone down. Which, if either, would you respect more, and why?

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You are the first one. The second person is an SEE :Se:

One of them drinks Pepsi. The other, doesn't.

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Originally Posted by jxrtes

@OP.

Some of them have this vibe where it feels like they're constantly revving up to punch me in the face and just waiting for me to offend them. I sense their environmental awareness, and it can feel like they have a major advantage over me.

The biggest irk tends to be narrow-mindedness combined with a readiness to act on the slimmest of pretexts without fully understanding the situation, offering partial solutions and sometimes expecting a reward.

As someone who went through the North American schooling system, I've had a lot of bad experiences with them. I tend to avoid them for close relationships, but if they're mature enjoy their company as acquaintances.

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This is interesting - so you feel defensive of potential weak spots around them? I could see that... do you get the feeling that they feel the same way with you?

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Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes

This thread is like talk radio...need a knife to cut through the stereotypes.:8*

Se valuers can be, maybe even have a tendency to be short sighted, aggressive, greedy, etc., but they aren't all that way. Many of them are intelligent people who are great to be around and have interesting things to talk about.

I don't really fear Se, I don't even dislike it necessarily, it's just a different language to me. Se valuers put me into a "high alert" :eek: kind of mode at first because I don't know what to expect from them. They can be unpredictable, and while I tend to think things through before doing them (if I do them at all), Se valuers tend to just go for what they want, which can throw me off. After I get to know them and as long as I'm on "their side" it's not a big deal, and often is pretty humorous to me.

I think for me the key with Se valuers is standing my ground. I absolutely despise anyone trying to force me to do something, and I let them know that if they try it on me. Usually they seem to respect that and as long as they're not trying to push me around I don't mind them.

Other than that, the only problem I tend to have with them is when they're disturbing a peaceful atmosphere. Sometimes Se types stir things up for no reason, attacking any small weakness in someone or something and turning it into a huge deal. I'm okay with it as long as it's not towards me or someone I know, but if it continues for a long time it starts to grate on my Si desires.:mad:

In summary I'll liken Se to a loaded gun: It's not necessarily a bad thing, it can be useful, but don't point it at me!

Beta Se: Having Ti makes Beta Se a lot more bearable. Usually we can connect on the Ti level and find a balance between when to use Se and when to use Ne.

Gamma Se: I agree with what 1981slater said about them turning others against you, that's the worst case scenario. Being someone who wants everyone to like me, it's a bit painful when Gamma SFs voice their dislike in a loud fashion. I know they're just as worried about my NeTi though, so we tend to just circle and back away from each other in most of that type of situation. Needless to say ISFjs and I work hard to avoid each other, but ESFps can be a lot of fun, and they're "but I want it now!" attitude can lead to some great adventures. :lol:

P.S. I added some smilies just for you, gamma SFs.

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Thanks, Banana Pancakes - this was really interesting to read. I think the thing about Se-valuers and Ne-valuers preferring different languages is a good way to look at it. Like, you can understand each other, but you're not using each other's preferred language so it takes a bit more work to understand/empathize w the other's point of view.

Do you get the feeling Se types are trying to "push you around"? I could see that, especially w power-drunk ones [lol at the fact that it tends to be the ones lowest in the "ranking" who act like bullies - traffic cop-style]. IME it tends to be less like [healthy, sane] Se-egos bark orders and more like they just expect what they ask to be done, period, as if to not do whatever it is is just unthinkable to them. Does that sound like your experience as well?

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

You are the first one. The second person is an SEE :Se:

One of them drinks Pepsi. The other, doesn't.

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I am the first one?

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Originally Posted by songofsappho

I am the first one?

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Definitely: person A

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Originally Posted by Rick

I suspect that socionics theory may color some people's perception of :Se: so that they readily recognize negative experiences with :Se: people and ignore or downplay neutral or positive ones.

My initial response to :Se: leading types is one of increased energy and physical concentration. Interacting with them puts me in a more energetic state, even if we're just talking. I enjoy the spontaneity of SLEs and recognize it as a kind of playfulness that I can understand and relate to.

SEEs' energy isn't so readily apparent to me, and I usually have no particular response to them. They're just "there," doing their thing.

Businesslike interaction with SLEs sometimes creates a bit of distress, due to their formal-administrative approach to things and the tendency to mull over bureaucratic issues more than I would like.

Businesslike interaction with SEEs has been easier for me, due to their more personable approach that matches my own more closely. However, they have the same :Se: tendency to get bogged down repeating information that is not interesting, which I find a bit difficult to deal with.

I have had SEEs and SLEs as friends and enjoyed spending time with them, but our friendships have not been as strong or close as those with duals and activators.

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Ah - thanks. I agree w you about posts in this thread focusing on the negative aspects of Se, and I think it's interesting it turned out that way. I think it's true that people notice things most when they're overdone or done badly, which seems like it fits a lot of the observations here. And fair enough.

The differences in your observations of SLEs and SEEs is something I've definitely seen - SLEs can seem [to me anyway] much more energetic and... obvious... in things they do, whereas SEEs tend to be less-so. I don't know how to word it atm, though....

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A smart person who shares some of your interests is a pleasure to talk to regardless of their type.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Serious Name

Not Ne at all, but I just think it depends heavily on the person.

I believe my father is SLE (lol, look at my type). There are times when we're just standing in line at someplace and the slightest inconvenience will set him off. I just stand there, embarrassed, asking myself why he can't just let it be. He knows I don't like when he does stuff like that so sometimes he will just look really angry but not say anything. His outbursts aggravate me sometimes more than scare me, but on the flip side he thinks I'm lazy and a bit cold, yet smart. He doesn't care that I'm reserved. As for spontaneous actions...yeah, he doesn't always think things through and just goes for it. If it isn't working, he tries for a while and tosses the plan.

My SLE friends act somewhat the same way, only I find them less abrasive since I can decide to take a break from them. Usually I'm just sitting down and one will run in wanting to do something stupid, and depending on my mood I'll join them or sit out. They fear getting into trouble FAR less than I do, since they believe they can work their way out of anything. Prolonged interaction makes me want to knock them in their teeth with some of the shit they say/do, usually when they mess with someone for no reason. Thankfully not all of them do this, but even the ones that don't seem to have too much aggression.

They aren't all that bad. As long as they aren't ruining my mood they're pretty fun to be around. Just don't take their shit, let them know you won't take their shit, and things will run more smoothly. They seem to respect you more if you can say "I'm not having that around me, not when I'm here" in a non-threatening, but firm, manner. The ones I get along best with turn their energy and drive into a positive element. If someone is shy, one will try his best to make the person feel welcome and not care all that much if they respond awkwardly. He occasionally still feels like punching random people because "he fucking looked at me funny!", but I'm just so used to it now I ignore it unless they actually plan to do it.

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Do you know any SEEs? I'm curious to hear what your take on SeFi would be, since you already have a good feel for SLEs' SeTi....

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Definitely: person A

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No, actually :o

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Originally Posted by songofsappho

No, actually :o

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Then you are B...and you are SEE :Se:

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Originally Posted by FDG

That's something positive, right? I mean, dialectical materialism is probably the worst crock of shit ever thought by mankind (well, mankind is a loaded word. I'm not really sure that Hegel was an homo sapiens, more likely an algae)

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Yeah lol, but my point was that they won't even know what it is.

Not being a dick, Marx is Ne INTj (I don't know what type Hegel is maybe Ni/Se? idk.) and his writings reflect that.

I just don't see Gamma SF's doin it, which makes sense, but also irritates me.

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Originally Posted by 1981slater

Then you are B...

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A PERSON IS EITHER A OR B. THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES AND NO GREY AREA!

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...and you are SEE :Se:

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Perhaps....

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Originally Posted by songofsappho

This is interesting - so you feel defensive of potential weak spots around them? I could see that... do you get the feeling that they feel the same way with you?

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If I'm using a lot of Ne, yes, I can feel their anxiety at not being able to process that as quickly. My experience has been that less mature Se-types trump up the Se in an effort to drown out the Ne. The SEEs would try to hit my Fi polr knowing full well it's my weak spot.

If the person is a friendly SLE or SEE, I agree with the above posters that we easily relate by sharing a temperament.

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Originally Posted by songofsappho

A PERSON IS EITHER A OR B. THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES AND NO GREY AREA!

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lol all people are either SEE's or living in a shack :)