Activity type differences EIE-ENFj and SLE-ESTp

SLEs are more direct and assertive, more spontaneous (generally speaking at least; this is somewhat subtype-related), less tactful and less skilled at maneuvering social situations (they can unintentionally be assholes -- when an EIE does it, it's fully intended).

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Originally Posted by octopuslove

You could also try typing by hidden agenda, which I find useful in these sorts of situations. Is she a natural at shifting the focus to herself in group situations (EIE), or does she seems to put in a conscious effort to make other people respond well to her (SLE)? Is she confused or upset when you mention that someone doesn't like her very much (SLE)? Does she effortlessly end up in a position of power and respect (SLE), or does she scheme her way there somewhat obsessively (EIE)? The differences are quite subtle, but it works for me.

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yes, hidden agenda is a great way too. SLEs sooo want to be loved!

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how does one tell eie and sle apart!?

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EIEs wear shoes, SLEs don't.

One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.

EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm

This example might be bad for several reasons: :thinking:

1. it involves fictional characters,
2. both characters are men,
3. I may have mistyped them, and
4. their characters are over exaggerated interpretations of personalities for the purposes of fiction/storytelling (but this reason might also be good because it makes it easier to see the difference).

Anyways:

If you've seen the movie Thor (or if you ever get a chance to), I think it provides a very good example of the difference. The character of Thor is (IMO) a very clear SLE, and Loki (his brother) I believe is an EIE. I don't know how representative the film depictions were of the comicbook characters' personalities because I've never read them.

In the film, Thor (SLE) is pretty reckless and has a very carefree, "do first, think later" attitude. He doesn't understand the perspective of others or their concerns (lack of Fi) and makes a lot of bad mistakes for the ultimate goal of gaining admiration and love for himself (Hidden Agenda). Only after making said mistakes does he painfully realize the gravity of what he has done.


Loki (EIE) is much more calculated and playful in the trickster sense. He stirs the emotional tide and thoughts of the people around him, then sits back and watches, waiting to see how others will react until making his next move. He provokes and sometimes deceives others simply to see what they will do. Here again the Hidden Agenda is obvious. Loki seeks to control and influence others and the situation (to gain a wealth of power over others) for what he feels is just for everyone, and his character is constantly trying to do this. When someone questions his leadership, Loki defends himself by saying he did what was the best for all.

I think their nicknames or whatever, Thor the God of Thunder, and Loki the God of Mischief, further emphasize the difference. One yields power in a more brute force, aggressive sense, the other yields power in a more subtle, mentally manipulative sense. One charges forward and acts without hesitation or fear, while the other watches and waits patiently for the opportune moment. Again, these are very overly exaggerated portrayals of the types.

Sorry if this doesn't really help in any concrete/useful way.

ESTps look like this:
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55009-2/male+Se-ESTp.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55254-3/male+Ti-ESTp.jpg
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55246-...le+Se-ESTp.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55240-...le+Ti-ESTp.jpg

ENFjs look like this:
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55125-2/male+Fe-ENFj.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55018-2/male+Ni-ENFj.jpg
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55123-...le+Fe-ENFj.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55625-...le+Ni-ENFj.jpg



it's just that easy

!!!

I watched thor recently, was pretty good. First hand impression i thought the actor did an ok job portraying SLE, and Loki as an EIE well. I wonder if they'll have a sequel to it :thinking:?

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Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz

I watched thor recently, was pretty good. First hand impression i thought the actor did an ok job portraying SLE, and Loki as an EIE well. I wonder if they'll have a sequel to it :thinking:?

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They're kind of building up to that with Thor/Cap America/Iron Man, etc.. into an ensemble Avengers movie.

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Originally Posted by hkkmr

One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.

EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm

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All Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.

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Originally Posted by Aleksei

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Originally Posted by hkkmr

One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.

EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm

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All Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.

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Is there any message where you didnt put bullshit about you ? Be those things. The thing about you is that you talk too much about what you are, making it seem like empty facade. Like someone telling that they are so powerful. If you have to tell others you got power. You dont have it

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Originally Posted by octopuslove

I think it's definitely a common problem, that's why so many people type others as "[quadra] in/extrovert". I find it particularly difficult with ethical males and logical females...

One thing I find useful is victim vs. aggressor - e.g. does she tend to chase aggresssively/assertively after people she's interested in (probably SLE), or does she kind of put on a show that attempts to attract the target (probably EIE)?

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I didn't think of the victim/aggressor idea, that's a good one too.

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Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz

I thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.

I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's :D. I should have elaborated, but you've done that for me-it's all goodd

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I don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strong :Fi: we sometimes default into this function when we are stressed and/or depressed. I was the same as you, I would be much happier repressing my feelings towards someone else rather than hurting them. I was like that for a long time, and it took even longer for me to balance :Fe: and :Fi:. I think beta NF's in particular are more likely to display passive aggressive behavior than any other type.

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Originally Posted by Morcheeba

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Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz

I thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.

I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's :D. I should have elaborated, but you've done that for me-it's all goodd

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I don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strong :Fi: we sometimes default into this function when we are stressed and/or depressed. I was the same as you, I would be much happier repressing my feelings towards someone else rather than hurting them. I was like that for a long time, and it took even longer for me to balance :Fe: and :Fi:. I think beta NF's in particular are more likely to display passive aggressive behavior than any other type.

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Lol I'm not that old, i got a long way to go. I srsly don't know what to do...I like the idea of self discovery/and improving ones self. But i don't think i can do it by myself, i ned some guidelines D=, or i have to get out a lot. If you got any advice, pls feel free to pm me. -Btw i think* i got my E-type as 6w5, done all the mistypings that were common in a 6 :doh:

the question is what makes you think they are similar in the first place. the only thing they share is something as vague and unobservable as "values".

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Originally Posted by octopuslove

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Originally Posted by labcoat

the question is what makes you think they are similar in the first place. the only thing they share is something as vague and unobservable as "values".

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You would benefit from actual interaction with real people.

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:thumbsup::thumbsup:

:love::love:

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You would benefit from actual interaction with real people.

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since we're apparently trading random offenses with no basis in reality, how about this:

 

Your smell is disgusting.

You strangle the snake too frequently and your room stinks.

People don't dislike you because you're repelling. Don't get me wrong, you are fucking repelling, that's just not why people dislike you.

You have a pretty yap. I'd like to ram it.

I would love to give you a boston handjob, I already gave one to your stepbrother.

On Saturday I saw you in a train and oh my skull fucking word I wanted to glenn beck you in a heinous way.

I don't want to live with you, your nanny doesn't want to live with you, why don't you just suffocate and die?

You will never be cured of cancer.

Everybody has a crappy time whenever you're around.

If a fireman felches you in the ass tomorrow, I bet it won't be the first time.

i bet you got yours from this site too: http://www.insultgenerator.org/; it makes about as much sense as the rest of them.

ENFjs are more stiff and emotional. ESTps are more relaxed and cool-headed.

I'd hardly classify SLEs as cool-headed. Relaxed though, sure.

Don't expect ENFjs to be decisive - such as picking where to eat, what they want to do in the future, staying focused on tasks.

Don't expect ENFjs to follow through with what they say, reply back to your emails/texts...

Even though these matters are very important to ENFjs, their :Se: is just too weak.

ESTps, on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by guy123

Don't expect ENFjs to be decisive - such as picking where to eat, what they want to do in the future, staying focused on tasks.

Don't expect ENFJs to follow through with what they say, reply back to your emails/texts...

Even though these matters are very important to ENFjs, their :Se: is just too weak.

ESTps, on the other hand...

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lol what.. does that have to do with Se?

You sound like you're talking about an IP or EP in general.

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Originally Posted by stray

lol what.. does that have to do with Se?

You sound like you're talking about an IP or EP in general.

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Nah dawg... I was referring to :Se: in the mobilizing position:

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"The individual tends to feel capable of achieving his goals, but hesitates on whether the path he is choosing is the right one. In these cases he needs to feel the support of others in order to be motivated to finally choose.

He likes to be involved in competitive and challenging endeavors and to see his will and personal power develop as he overcomes obstacles together with other people. However, he depends on others to provide the gusto and motivation for these endeavors."

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http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_Sensing

Yeah, but god help us all if weak Se forbids them from answering an email.

Yeah, its pretty effin annoying at times

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Originally Posted by Aleksei

I'd hardly classify SLEs as cool-headed. Relaxed though, sure.

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I see the opposite. SLEs are probably more cool-headed than relaxed, but in comparison to EIEs they seem more relaxed/flexible.

Also, I'm not sure I see follow-through as that EIE related. From what I see, a number of them seem to be fairly responsible. I would think its ntr.

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Originally Posted by labcoat

I would love to give you a boston handjob, I already gave one to your stepbrother.

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tmi

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Originally Posted by poli

Also, I'm not sure I see follow-through as that EIE related. From what I see, a number of them seem to be fairly responsible. I would think its ntr.

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Well, what doesn't make sense to me is that people with Fe or Fi in their ego block often kind of dwell on their friends and/or relationships. Some of these things, like answering an email, shouldn't be ascribed to "Se". Just because it's an "action". lol. That could very well be a relationship thing and they may look forward to some interaction.. and even initiate, let alone reply.

If they are ignoring someone, I'd think it's just some extenuating circumstance.. maybe they don't like that person specifically.. maybe they're swamped.. maybe they have diarrhea and don't feel like sitting at the computer. You're right, it's not necessarily type related.. and it's not necessarily weak Se at the very least.

I agree with that, stray.

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Originally Posted by stray

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Originally Posted by poli

Also, I'm not sure I see follow-through as that EIE related. From what I see, a number of them seem to be fairly responsible. I would think its ntr.

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Well, what doesn't make sense to me is that people with Fe or Fi in their ego block often kind of dwell on their friends and/or relationships. Some of these things, like answering an email, shouldn't be ascribed to "Se". Just because it's an "action". lol. That could very well be a relationship thing and they may look forward to some interaction.. and even initiate, let alone reply.

If they are ignoring someone, I'd think it's just some extenuating circumstance.. maybe they don't like that person specifically.. maybe they're swamped.. maybe they have diarrhea and don't feel like sitting at the computer. You're right, it's not necessarily type related.. and it's not necessarily weak Se at the very least.

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I said those things to illustrate a general point- that they're pretty darn indecisive and their ability to just "do it" isn't on the level of Se-leading types. This doesn't mean that they're not responsible or anything, they completely value decisive decision making...They're just not too good at, hence needing assistance from their dual, LSI, who is very reliable. Now completely ignoring someone (which I didn't even mention), that's completely different...

How do you see mobilizing :Se: manifest in the EIE?

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Originally Posted by guy123

How do you see mobilizing :Se: manifest in the EIE then?

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In both EIE and LIE, I could see it as one thing that makes them appear like ESps at time. They can get carried away and give in to expressing aggravations, and be pushy or dominating. Steve Jobs is a possible example of an ENj who doesn't exactly need any help asserting his territory.

The part you quoted about them feeling motivated around strong Se types is feeling energized about implementing longer term goals. Not on small shit, like needing to be pushed to answer an email or pick a restaurant.

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Originally Posted by stray

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Originally Posted by guy123

How do you see mobilizing :Se: manifest in the EIE then?

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In both EIE and LIE, I could see it as one thing that makes them appear like ESps at time. They can get carried away and give in to expressing aggravations, and be pushy or dominating. Steve Jobs is a possible example of an ENj who doesn't exactly need any help asserting his territory.

The part you quoted about them feeling motivated around strong Se types is feeling energized about implementing longer term goals. Not on small shit, like needing to be pushed to answer an email or pick a restaurant.

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Stray, since the restaurant and emailing back thing were small shit examples, let me give you another real life anecdote:

So one time I was back at my college gym, playing some basketball with some old friends. We usually play up to 11 points. As the end of the day was approaching, I started to leave, the rest of the gang wanted to play some more, though there was very little time till closing.

I noticed that one guy had to sit out, because we played 4 on 4, and there was a total of 9 guys. That one guy sitting out seemed upset.

My ENFj friend, who was in charge of setting up teams, saw this guy sitting out, and he didn't know what to do. He wanted everyone to play, have fun, but time was running out. But he just sat there, with the "what should I do" face, almost as if he was completely helpless.

I was really amused by this. For me, it was simple. I told him, "Just play up to 7 instead of 11, and include that guy sitting out in the next game." In this way, everyone can be included to play, instead of time running out with one guy leaving pissed.

The ENFj friend found this advice helpful, and immediately implemented it. It all happened so naturally.

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Picking teams is small shit, but obviously the ENFj needed to be pushed to make a decision.

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Originally Posted by guy123

I was really amused by this. For me, it was simple. I told him, "Just play up to 7 instead of 11, and include that guy sitting out in the next game." In this way, everyone can be included to play, instead of time running out with one guy leaving pissed.

The ENFj friend found this advice helpful, and immediately implemented it.

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Picking teams is small shit, but he needed to be pushed to make a decision.

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I'm not sure what that signified, but I don't see what he did as necessarily indecisive. It sounds more like both of you were aware, didn't need to be pushed to recognize the issue, but you had a creative solution due to more familiarity with the game. Like maybe he just didn't know what to do simply because his mind doesn't instantly go to details like that, how you could split it into two games. Not because he didn't want to. I guess, that could be Se, where you were better manuevering the "concrete" dynamics of the situation. While he was decisive with Fe by recognizing before others that this other dude was being excluded.

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Originally Posted by stray

I'm not sure what that signified, but I don't see what he did as necessarily indecisive. It sounds more like both of you were aware, didn't need to be pushed to recognize the issue, but you had a creative solution due to more familiarity with the game. Like maybe he just didn't know what to do simply because his mind doesn't instantly go to details like that, how you could split it into two games. Not because he didn't want to. I guess, that could be Se, where you were better manuevering the "concrete" dynamics of the situation. While he was decisive with Fe by recognizing before others that this other dude was being excluded.

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good insight!

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Originally Posted by guy123

good insight!

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Heh.. Well, actually it started reminding me of many situations I've been. I don't think I'm EIE, but I recognize situations like that sometimes. One with an LSI actually.. she was my last boss. There were a few disabled people in the workplace at the time, and one guy in particular drew my attention. I noticed he was walking after work (and the bus stop must've been two miles away). So I asked him about it, and started giving him rides. His whole life story was miserable actually.. but it started getting to me that I was the only recognizing it. And then I went to my boss.. and I guess I affected her a bit with being pissed off about the whole situation. I just didn't know what to do. It seemed to perk her up, and she started making calls, and getting a whole plan implemented to have the bus come to work and pick all of these people up.

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Originally Posted by stray

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Originally Posted by guy123

good insight!

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Heh.. Well, actually it started reminding me of many situations I've been. I don't think I'm EIE, but I recognize situations like that sometimes. One with an LSI actually.. she was my last boss. There were a few disabled people in the workplace at the time, and one guy in particular drew my attention. I noticed he was walking after work (and the bus stop must've been two miles away). So I asked him about it, and started giving him rides. His whole life story was miserable actually.. but it started getting to me that I was the only recognizing it. And then I went to my boss.. and I guess I affected her a bit with being pissed off about the whole situation. I just didn't know what to do. It seemed to perk her up, and she started making calls, and getting a whole plan implemented to have the bus come to work and pick all of these people up.

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Heh, Se related or not, that was nice of you to go out of your way for that person. :content:

Perhaps indecision is not the precise word. Maybe more like "not knowing the concrete steps to
Manuever oneself to their goals"...Which is basically indecision in my eyes lol. I guess this is where subjective perception comes into play, eh.

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Originally Posted by guy123

Heh, Se related or not, that was nice of you to go out of your way for that person. :content:

Perhaps indecision is not the precise word. Maybe more like "not knowing the concrete steps to
Manuever oneself to their goals"...Which is basically indecision in my eyes lol. I guess this is where subjective perception comes into play, eh.

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Yeah it could be indecision too.. While in other cases, it's just absent mindedness? Where what might be obvious to you wouldn't be the other way around. Another thing is that if NFs get enough experience in something, I think they'll come up with solutions too or draw parallels from experience and apply it to something new. They can even handle themselves in extreme situations, if they have experience. But I see it play out like you're saying often.

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Originally Posted by eliza

Siuntal explained in an older post that the Ni subtype of IEI will have a stronger Ni and Ti than Fe and Se, because they are both introverted functions.

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Well, Siuntal is wrong. If you actually take a look at the subtype system, it's called "system of accepting and producing subtypes." Accepting and producing functions are divided by Rationality/Irrationality, rather than extroversion/introversion. Therefore, an Ni-sub would accentuate Ni, Se, Ne and Si.

You could be N-IEI of some kind, but I'm of the mind that subtype doesn't actually accentuate functions. It accentuates temperament.

I have somewhat stronger Se than Ni, myself. I briefly self-typed SLE because of that, and some of the less retarded people around here seem to type me SLE.

No it doesn't.

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Accepting/producing is a dichotomy that separates the two functions of each block of Model A. Accepting functions 'come first' in each block and are odd-numbered: 1, 3, 5, and 7. Producing functions 'come second' and are even-numbered: 2, 4, 6, and 8.

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Originally Posted by Aleksei

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Originally Posted by eliza

Siuntal explained in an older post that the Ni subtype of IEI will have a stronger Ni and Ti than Fe and Se, because they are both introverted functions.

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Well, Siuntal is wrong. If you actually take a look at the subtype system, it's called "system of accepting and producing subtypes." Accepting and producing functions are divided by Rationality/Irrationality, rather than extroversion/introversion. Therefore, an Ni-sub would accentuate Ni, Se, Ne and Si.

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Ni and Se are opposite ends of the same dichotomy. They are mutually exclusive. If Ni is accentuated then by definition of what a dichotomy is Se has to be weakened. Same relationship exists between Fe and Ti. Accepting IEI deemphasizes Fe, which means that in super-id block Ti gets accentuated. What you're saying above, that accepting sub emphasizes simultaneously both Ni and Se, as well as Ne and Si which are also dichotomous, is simply nonsensical … how do you even manage to reason yourself into such bs?

Bumping for interest.