I've found myself unable to type certain individuals who are definitely Beta extrovert, but who are difficult to type more specifically.
How can I tell between an EIE and an SLE by observation alone (and, to some extent, what they think)?
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I've found myself unable to type certain individuals who are definitely Beta extrovert, but who are difficult to type more specifically.
How can I tell between an EIE and an SLE by observation alone (and, to some extent, what they think)?
Some feedback:
EIE :Ni: and SLE :Se: talkative, loud, mobile, have a sense of humor
EIE :Fe: and SLE :Ti: not very talkative, rigid, a little bit more serious
EIE and SLE :Se: druggy
SLE :Ti: healthy
EIE :Ni: and SLE :Se: slim, skinny
EIE :Fe: average
SLE :Ti: strong
EIE :Fe: and SLE give compliments
EIE :Ni: doesn't give compliments
EIE :Fe: tall
SLE :Ti: average
EIE :Ni:, SLE :Se: short
SLE :Se: and EIE :Ni: rebel, arrogant
SLE :Ti: and EIE :Fe: obedient, humble
SLE wide jaw, specially logical subtype
EIE baby face
I'm not sure -- I don't know very many of either type -- I know...two male EIEs and two male SLEs, a possible female SLE and that's it for Beta extroverts. :(
However, I really don't think it would ever be possible to mistake me for an SLE. Maybe this happens more when it's a male EIE or a female SLE? I can't help but wonder if gender plays a large part here.
N people have no 'density' to them.
If you're SLE, EIEs probably seem ........ very 'light'. Even ENTjs seem that way to me. Even fat intuitive types have a sort of 'lightness' to them. lightness ~ intuitiveness ~ not really being fully in the present/sensory world.
Se people seem much more capable of actually kicking someone's ass. That doesn't mean they are more skilled or in better shape, but, they just seem more ready and prepared to stand up to something or do, concretely, something. Particularly compared to NFs. ENFjs are more likely to talk about something or warn you about something, where as an ESTp might just punch someone or yell at them, etc.
Things like that.
That's what I was going to ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by unefille
I've found SLE's to strike me as knowing what they are doing more than an EIE. In conversation, SLE's always seem more sure of their reasoning abilities, EIE's may be just as sure for all I know, but it takes them longer to formulate their response, like maybe worried about being caught out or something (Te PoLR and Ti seeking).
Also, i've seen EIE's more quick to deal with things by providing or creating an emotional response rather than addressing the issue being discussed-or even just dismissing the issue being discussed.
EIEs speak to groups as a TV reporter speaks to an audience, they don't expect people to answer, but to laugh. SLEs do it too, from time to time.
EIE sing (seriously) when surrounded by people. Furthermore, I know several EIEs who are small rock bands singers.
Anyway, most Spaniards are "merry", even gammas and deltas.
I can bet I could kick your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by UDP
BTW, one of my best friends is ISTj :Ti: , half Italian and half Spanish. The Italian are kinda rough! Have you ever watched this movie: (you get an Italian SLE)Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc9zF8G2Pvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIvg-pnjjmM&feature=related
Yeah but you don't really find that kind of people around normal places? I think. And I don't have such a bad accent! ahahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by UDP
i actually know what you mean. as incredibly vague and hard that is to describe, i tend to agree. SLEs generally seem more solid and less shakeable, despite being Se egos who can be explosive, too. not highly excitable perhaps, but yes, more in reality.
that also makes some sense to me. it's almost as if the ISTj and ESTp have the role within beta of being "sure" and "always right" and somehow this demeanor that i find beta sts sort of naturally have is assuring to a beta NF. like someone who is confident in what they are doing. i find that beta NFs get annoyed with indecisive people or people who seem unconfident in whatever they're about to do. for whatever reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
yeah, i could see this, too.Quote:
Also, i've seen EIE's more quick to deal with things by providing or creating an emotional response rather than addressing the issue being discussed-or even just dismissing the issue being discussed.
I've heard horrible things about Napoli! Maradona told me!Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
http://fiorentina.theoffside.com/fil...apoli_0002.jpg
I think this is very true. However, I think Intuitive who is a E-8 has a mass of bodyness to the ground. If you know what I mean, they are ready, not to be controlled by people, and the focus is always there, like they are born ready, and easily be on the offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by UDP
Maybe, but that would be interesting. I've never come across one though. I may have, possibly an LIE E8, but I can't tell if he's 7w8 or 8w7.Quote:
Originally Posted by 07490
It's weird, said LIE has a lot of presence and charisma and is very outgoing (he reminded me of FDG somewhat in that way), but, he still seems 'light'. Maybe it's Se HA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by implied
YES.
SLEs are much more focused on the now and EIEs are more dreamy. Sometimes you can see it in their eyes. SLEs feel weighted to the ground. I only know one male EIE and one female EIE but they both seem more scattered and unsure.
I think Betas just realize that people are generally of course -- more physically attracted to stereotypical alpha males/alpha females , which is why in porn you see an extreme/exaggerated forms of male/female. I wouldn't call this real sexual dimorphism, because I think in reality- nature is going to balance us all out where there isn't much difference. We're not apes, we're humans. There's some similarities of course but technically I think nature will er on the side of... gender equality, and the gender differences will keep getting more subtle as time goes by.Quote:
Beta -- higher sexual dimorphism
Education and getting smarter seems to be innately 'gender equal' than anything male or female. So therefore if we continue to get smarter and our brains even larger and more complex, the sexual dimorphism will exist only as a sexual entertainment outlet (which really that's all it does now), not as anything that's very much productive or useful. This reminds me kinda of the 'cavemen vs. astronaught' debate.
By realizing and comprehending/understanding something, being 'above it' you can manipulate it to your will.
ESTps have that hunter look in their eyes. They look directly into your eyes. They sort of dominate a physical space without trying to. They size up other people without realizing they are doing it. A constant focus on who has the upper hand. They like to use examples where they write something on a piece of paper, even if what they write is just a scribble, it makes them feel they are "showing" it. Their examples are very concrete "so, if I had 50 dollars and I put half of it in a bond and then..etc." They also start sentences with "so" a lot. I also notice INFps starting sentences with "so..." Or maybe all betas do that? But they also are very nice and considerate and so can come across like feelers a lot of the time. They will mention emotions easily too, without thinking twice. Like "I can be so stubborn, and I need to instead be open minded, so now I'm going to really attack this goal and keep my eye on the prize."
ENFjs show emotion, especially worry, excitement, energy. Their energy flies all over the place when excited or angry, but they can also be super focused. They are usually either high or low, not a lot of in between (and they share their mood). They have an expression of contemplation or almost a pained look (as they worry a lot), but it isn't an S thing...it's a Ni look. They want to be grounded (despite their own emotions pulling them in five directions at once) and they want to do things the "right" way. They want to please everyone while also sticking to the rules (which is impossible right?)
They like discussing theory, but in a Ni past tense way, like how historically something has blah blah, or how all baroque artists tended to blah blah...They like to categorize what has already happened in the past and then apply that to the future basically. "Historically psychiatrists in the united states tended to blah blah, and so we see that all of them are basically blah blah, and this happens every time."
Oh jewels, that was GREAT!
How does this work?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifmd95
Result types are the types that freely manouver in environments with few restrictions. As such they get around a lot more than the Process types. They more often move from one place to another. (before anyone supplies Immanuel Kant or any INTj as a counterexample; I do not mean "move to another home" here. Just talking about very concrete movement activities such as walking through a room from one activity to another)
Result/Process is the strongest of the Reinin dichotomies. Quite possibly the only one of any real merit.
Girl with the glasses is EIE-NI the other SLE-SE, I think the girl with the glasses are more restrain which is part of the reason why i think shes the EIEQuote:
Originally Posted by Allie
The girl on the right has a very tensed up kind of face that I've seen in several ENFjs. An example of this is Dominic Keating:
dominic keating - Google Image Search
I should have mentioned that there are also individuals who I can clearly determine to be either EIE or SLE; that is, people who are unmistakeably one or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by unefille
I think this is common to all Fe base individuals. There's a guy in the OTC who is actually a really good singer, and he sings all the time when people are around.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FDG
That's because you're SEE. ;)
The Untouchables is a great film. I love Andy Garcia's character in it. De Niro plays Capone pretty well too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981slater
Yeah, I've noticed this in my EIE housemate.Quote:
Originally Posted by implied
Good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
Liz looks like Heinrich Himmler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allie
Jewel, you know both types very very well. I could not describe myself anymore better than you did about me. Also, on this subject, I think when an EIE becomes super focus they can look like and be seen like an SLE but not for long. SLE rarely looks like an EIE unless when their hidden agenda is at its highest they can laugh and joke alot, totally ignoring their present dominance, I see that in alot of SLE female. But there is a clear differences if you spend longer duration of time with both type.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
who else agree with this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
Even if everybody were to agree, it would nonetheless be untrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by 07490
hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by FDG
A better question would be to ask 'I need to find something I'm actually good at that can make me money and stop worrying over shit that doesn't matter.'
There a trillion ways to progress with your life. Socionics isn't really one of them.
(Yeah I'm going to keep nagging everybody about this until I get banned on Saturday)
You are disconnecting yourself from others. It doesn't matter who is an eie or sle - it simply matters if you can see that person accurately without labels. So you can observe others. But sometimes there are people that watch the ones that watch others.
great pic, Allie. It illustrates the difference in their looks quite nicely! My aunt is EIE and has that same look. So funny.
And I think FDG is probably LIE>SEE.
Apologies. I know they're gone now, but I'll keep it in mind in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allie
Gammas: Expat, Isha, niffweed17 for definite, probably more. Other quadras I don't know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by 07490
Most likely LSI. His relationship with ****** was almost certainly duality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allie
This doesn't exactly buttress your self-typing :DQuote:
Originally Posted by UDP
But I do agree with the general idea of lightness vs. groundedness.
bahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Yes, exactly. I think this is essentially because we expect others to behave in a manner that is complementary to us -- what we are "searching for." So, everyone is basically compared to that benchmark (duality). This is exactly how I am; that lack of certainty that comes from the SeTi mindset (specifically in my delta NF infested family) annoys the hell out of me. I am already uncertain and adaptable enough, as it is; if someone else is like me, it's going to be aggravating.Quote:
Originally Posted by implied
Everything of what you wrote was spot on, but I wanted to quote this part because of how surprisingly accurate it was, given its specificity. I know that with myself, literally every idea or discussion topic will take a historical turn -- but not in the sense of dry factual bullshit, more like a, "this has always happened with people" type of thing. It seems that a penchant for that sort of humanistic approach to history is fairly pervasive in beta NFs; I know I do it unwittingly, and have observed a few other beta NF friends who do as well. It works well with the quadra roles -- us being the sort of emotionally-charged visionaries or whateverthefuck. The stereotype is dumb, but it makes sense when viewed in the light of looking at abstract processes and their latent effects throughout time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
Yeah this has really stood out to me in both INFps and ENFjs (I notice it most in those types) because Ni is sooo different from Ne that I really notice it. I think sometimes it's harder to see this stuff in your own quadra because it's such a core part of how things work for you. But Ni sorta conflicts w/ my Ne ideas, so I notice the structure of it more.Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
Would be interesting to hear an Ni person's take on Ne, or Si, etc. To an Ni person, it probably sounds like "forget all that has happened before...I just had this crazy idea and let's TRY it because why the hell not?!!" LOL. But of course to me, I respond to Ni with "who cares what came before -- the historic factors may not apply right now (or to the future) because other factors might be more powerful, so let's look at what's going on and will be going on, not what has happened before" -- and that is something that Ni types of course argue me to the death on...
YES. That portion of text should be stickied. The quadra elements, themes, etc. are completely native to you, so they're not things you're really going to "see" in others objectively, nor can you really "act" like them. Whereas with non-quadra stuff, you can qualitate it a lot easier, because it is separate from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
That's actually interesting. The example is sort of stereotypical, but the theme behind it makes sense. The main conflict with Ni and Ne people, is that Ni views a lot of things as irrelevant that Ne would find interesting, because its focus is on abstract processes over time, not variable and potentials. Ne-valuers seem to wonder sometimes why an Ni-valuer will write some new idea, thing, etc. off -- and that is pretty much why. There's simply a central, intangible process -- a baseline of sorts -- which can't really be deviated from -- not because it's too deliberate or anything, just because it's there, it's fucking obvious lol (this should reaffirm the above point you made). Ne-valuers just seem to laugh at this notion, and go about their expatiating ways :)Quote:
Would be interesting to hear an Ni person's take on Ne, or Si, etc. To an Ni person, it probably sounds like "forget all that has happened before...I just had this crazy idea and let's TRY it because why the hell not?!!" LOL. But of course to me, I respond to Ni with "who cares what came before -- the historic factors may not apply right now (or to the future) because other factors might be more powerful, so let's look at what's going on and will be going on, not what has happened before" -- and that is something that Ni types of course argue me to the death on...
Jewels, that was a great description and my experiences with these two types backs up what you said.
Yeah, the first thing I notice about Beta STs is their confidence. They seem to assimilate into different situations very easily and they're never awkward.Quote:
Originally Posted by implied
.......
SLE's can sometimes be douchebags and not know what they said that irritated or hurt people, i'll see if i can give examples off the top of my head. If you guys are having a conversation where it involved giving opinions-say one person gives an opinion where it was like illogical but still applied to the situation. The SLE might* say, "that's stupid, how does that even make sense logically?". The reciever will get offended, "wow that was very mean" -SLE: "What? I just said it doesn't make sense..." (confused). (Or they're not aware that the way they respond (attitude, loudness) can offend people)
Another thing is that they won't hold back in telling you do to something + they're impulsive. (Unless they're Ti-sub). *I could be wrong though*
I can see how it would be difficult to tell the difference between activity partners, though I think the example you gave wasn't very good because I have said things along those lines, (but I think anyone of any type could say that if someone said something illogical.)Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz
As for telling the difference between an EIE and SLE, well first of all, both have something the other one wants, (HA). So, an EIE could say something insensitive to get a rise out of someone, (using a mix of :Fe: and :Se:), and vice versa. The difference is that if you call the SLE out on this, they might get embarrassed or look confused, while the EIE would keep their composure and act like they knew what they were doing all along.
Also, I thought you were a 4w5, what made you decide on 5w4?
I thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.
I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's :D. I should have elaborated, but you've done that for me-it's all goodd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZw_xFdq3Fg&feature=related
Victim. The one being punched. The one punching is the agressor
the asking/declaring is a very obvious give-away for me. SLEs almost never ask. In fact, when SLE wants to get together, it's always "I'm doing X." as if I'm supposed to jump in and invite myself. or "It's a nice day for X" meaning that I'm supposed to suggest we get together. Or in some cases "I was thinking about asking you to do X" They make statements, declarations. And if they do ask questions, it means they really want the information.
SLE's emotional state appears at times hidden, although they do come out and say exactly what they think, they often do not know themselves how they FEEL.
SLEs are more direct and assertive, more spontaneous (generally speaking at least; this is somewhat subtype-related), less tactful and less skilled at maneuvering social situations (they can unintentionally be assholes -- when an EIE does it, it's fully intended).
yes, hidden agenda is a great way too. SLEs sooo want to be loved!Quote:
Originally Posted by octopuslove
EIEs wear shoes, SLEs don't.Quote:
how does one tell eie and sle apart!?
One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.
EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm
This example might be bad for several reasons: :thinking:
1. it involves fictional characters,
2. both characters are men,
3. I may have mistyped them, and
4. their characters are over exaggerated interpretations of personalities for the purposes of fiction/storytelling (but this reason might also be good because it makes it easier to see the difference).
Anyways:
If you've seen the movie Thor (or if you ever get a chance to), I think it provides a very good example of the difference. The character of Thor is (IMO) a very clear SLE, and Loki (his brother) I believe is an EIE. I don't know how representative the film depictions were of the comicbook characters' personalities because I've never read them.
In the film, Thor (SLE) is pretty reckless and has a very carefree, "do first, think later" attitude. He doesn't understand the perspective of others or their concerns (lack of Fi) and makes a lot of bad mistakes for the ultimate goal of gaining admiration and love for himself (Hidden Agenda). Only after making said mistakes does he painfully realize the gravity of what he has done.
Loki (EIE) is much more calculated and playful in the trickster sense. He stirs the emotional tide and thoughts of the people around him, then sits back and watches, waiting to see how others will react until making his next move. He provokes and sometimes deceives others simply to see what they will do. Here again the Hidden Agenda is obvious. Loki seeks to control and influence others and the situation (to gain a wealth of power over others) for what he feels is just for everyone, and his character is constantly trying to do this. When someone questions his leadership, Loki defends himself by saying he did what was the best for all.
I think their nicknames or whatever, Thor the God of Thunder, and Loki the God of Mischief, further emphasize the difference. One yields power in a more brute force, aggressive sense, the other yields power in a more subtle, mentally manipulative sense. One charges forward and acts without hesitation or fear, while the other watches and waits patiently for the opportune moment. Again, these are very overly exaggerated portrayals of the types.
Sorry if this doesn't really help in any concrete/useful way.
ESTps look like this:
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55009-2/male+Se-ESTp.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55254-3/male+Ti-ESTp.jpg
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55246-...le+Se-ESTp.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55240-...le+Ti-ESTp.jpg
ENFjs look like this:
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55125-2/male+Fe-ENFj.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55018-2/male+Ni-ENFj.jpg
http://gallery.socionix.com/d/55123-...le+Fe-ENFj.jpghttp://gallery.socionix.com/d/55625-...le+Ni-ENFj.jpg
it's just that easy
!!!
I watched thor recently, was pretty good. First hand impression i thought the actor did an ok job portraying SLE, and Loki as an EIE well. I wonder if they'll have a sequel to it :thinking:?
They're kind of building up to that with Thor/Cap America/Iron Man, etc.. into an ensemble Avengers movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz
All Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
Is there any message where you didnt put bullshit about you ? Be those things. The thing about you is that you talk too much about what you are, making it seem like empty facade. Like someone telling that they are so powerful. If you have to tell others you got power. You dont have itQuote:
Originally Posted by AlekseiAll Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr
I didn't think of the victim/aggressor idea, that's a good one too.Quote:
Originally Posted by octopuslove
I don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strong :Fi: we sometimes default into this function when we are stressed and/or depressed. I was the same as you, I would be much happier repressing my feelings towards someone else rather than hurting them. I was like that for a long time, and it took even longer for me to balance :Fe: and :Fi:. I think beta NF's in particular are more likely to display passive aggressive behavior than any other type.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz
Lol I'm not that old, i got a long way to go. I srsly don't know what to do...I like the idea of self discovery/and improving ones self. But i don't think i can do it by myself, i ned some guidelines D=, or i have to get out a lot. If you got any advice, pls feel free to pm me. -Btw i think* i got my E-type as 6w5, done all the mistypings that were common in a 6 :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by MorcheebaI don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strong :Fi: we sometimes default into this function when we are stressed and/or depressed. I was the same as you, I would be much happier repressing my feelings towards someone else rather than hurting them. I was like that for a long time, and it took even longer for me to balance :Fe: and :Fi:. I think beta NF's in particular are more likely to display passive aggressive behavior than any other type.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiLingBaz
the question is what makes you think they are similar in the first place. the only thing they share is something as vague and unobservable as "values".
Quote:
Originally Posted by octopusloveYou would benefit from actual interaction with real people.Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
:love::love:
since we're apparently trading random offenses with no basis in reality, how about this:Quote:
You would benefit from actual interaction with real people.
i bet you got yours from this site too: http://www.insultgenerator.org/; it makes about as much sense as the rest of them.
ENFjs are more stiff and emotional. ESTps are more relaxed and cool-headed.
I'd hardly classify SLEs as cool-headed. Relaxed though, sure.
Don't expect ENFjs to be decisive - such as picking where to eat, what they want to do in the future, staying focused on tasks.
Don't expect ENFjs to follow through with what they say, reply back to your emails/texts...
Even though these matters are very important to ENFjs, their :Se: is just too weak.
ESTps, on the other hand...
lol what.. does that have to do with Se?Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
You sound like you're talking about an IP or EP in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stray
Nah dawg... I was referring to :Se: in the mobilizing position:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_SensingQuote:
"The individual tends to feel capable of achieving his goals, but hesitates on whether the path he is choosing is the right one. In these cases he needs to feel the support of others in order to be motivated to finally choose.
He likes to be involved in competitive and challenging endeavors and to see his will and personal power develop as he overcomes obstacles together with other people. However, he depends on others to provide the gusto and motivation for these endeavors."
Yeah, but god help us all if weak Se forbids them from answering an email.
Yeah, its pretty effin annoying at times
I see the opposite. SLEs are probably more cool-headed than relaxed, but in comparison to EIEs they seem more relaxed/flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksei
Also, I'm not sure I see follow-through as that EIE related. From what I see, a number of them seem to be fairly responsible. I would think its ntr.
tmiQuote:
Originally Posted by labcoat
Well, what doesn't make sense to me is that people with Fe or Fi in their ego block often kind of dwell on their friends and/or relationships. Some of these things, like answering an email, shouldn't be ascribed to "Se". Just because it's an "action". lol. That could very well be a relationship thing and they may look forward to some interaction.. and even initiate, let alone reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by poli
If they are ignoring someone, I'd think it's just some extenuating circumstance.. maybe they don't like that person specifically.. maybe they're swamped.. maybe they have diarrhea and don't feel like sitting at the computer. You're right, it's not necessarily type related.. and it's not necessarily weak Se at the very least.
I agree with that, stray.
I said those things to illustrate a general point- that they're pretty darn indecisive and their ability to just "do it" isn't on the level of Se-leading types. This doesn't mean that they're not responsible or anything, they completely value decisive decision making...They're just not too good at, hence needing assistance from their dual, LSI, who is very reliable. Now completely ignoring someone (which I didn't even mention), that's completely different...Quote:
Originally Posted by strayWell, what doesn't make sense to me is that people with Fe or Fi in their ego block often kind of dwell on their friends and/or relationships. Some of these things, like answering an email, shouldn't be ascribed to "Se". Just because it's an "action". lol. That could very well be a relationship thing and they may look forward to some interaction.. and even initiate, let alone reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by poli
If they are ignoring someone, I'd think it's just some extenuating circumstance.. maybe they don't like that person specifically.. maybe they're swamped.. maybe they have diarrhea and don't feel like sitting at the computer. You're right, it's not necessarily type related.. and it's not necessarily weak Se at the very least.
How do you see mobilizing :Se: manifest in the EIE?
In both EIE and LIE, I could see it as one thing that makes them appear like ESps at time. They can get carried away and give in to expressing aggravations, and be pushy or dominating. Steve Jobs is a possible example of an ENj who doesn't exactly need any help asserting his territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
The part you quoted about them feeling motivated around strong Se types is feeling energized about implementing longer term goals. Not on small shit, like needing to be pushed to answer an email or pick a restaurant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strayIn both EIE and LIE, I could see it as one thing that makes them appear like ESps at time. They can get carried away and give in to expressing aggravations, and be pushy or dominating. Steve Jobs is a possible example of an ENj who doesn't exactly need any help asserting his territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
The part you quoted about them feeling motivated around strong Se types is feeling energized about implementing longer term goals. Not on small shit, like needing to be pushed to answer an email or pick a restaurant.
Stray, since the restaurant and emailing back thing were small shit examples, let me give you another real life anecdote:
So one time I was back at my college gym, playing some basketball with some old friends. We usually play up to 11 points. As the end of the day was approaching, I started to leave, the rest of the gang wanted to play some more, though there was very little time till closing.
I noticed that one guy had to sit out, because we played 4 on 4, and there was a total of 9 guys. That one guy sitting out seemed upset.
My ENFj friend, who was in charge of setting up teams, saw this guy sitting out, and he didn't know what to do. He wanted everyone to play, have fun, but time was running out. But he just sat there, with the "what should I do" face, almost as if he was completely helpless.
I was really amused by this. For me, it was simple. I told him, "Just play up to 7 instead of 11, and include that guy sitting out in the next game." In this way, everyone can be included to play, instead of time running out with one guy leaving pissed.
The ENFj friend found this advice helpful, and immediately implemented it. It all happened so naturally.
--
Picking teams is small shit, but obviously the ENFj needed to be pushed to make a decision.
I'm not sure what that signified, but I don't see what he did as necessarily indecisive. It sounds more like both of you were aware, didn't need to be pushed to recognize the issue, but you had a creative solution due to more familiarity with the game. Like maybe he just didn't know what to do simply because his mind doesn't instantly go to details like that, how you could split it into two games. Not because he didn't want to. I guess, that could be Se, where you were better manuevering the "concrete" dynamics of the situation. While he was decisive with Fe by recognizing before others that this other dude was being excluded.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
good insight!Quote:
Originally Posted by stray
Heh.. Well, actually it started reminding me of many situations I've been. I don't think I'm EIE, but I recognize situations like that sometimes. One with an LSI actually.. she was my last boss. There were a few disabled people in the workplace at the time, and one guy in particular drew my attention. I noticed he was walking after work (and the bus stop must've been two miles away). So I asked him about it, and started giving him rides. His whole life story was miserable actually.. but it started getting to me that I was the only recognizing it. And then I went to my boss.. and I guess I affected her a bit with being pissed off about the whole situation. I just didn't know what to do. It seemed to perk her up, and she started making calls, and getting a whole plan implemented to have the bus come to work and pick all of these people up.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
Heh, Se related or not, that was nice of you to go out of your way for that person. :content:Quote:
Originally Posted by strayHeh.. Well, actually it started reminding me of many situations I've been. I don't think I'm EIE, but I recognize situations like that sometimes. One with an LSI actually.. she was my last boss. There were a few disabled people in the workplace at the time, and one guy in particular drew my attention. I noticed he was walking after work (and the bus stop must've been two miles away). So I asked him about it, and started giving him rides. His whole life story was miserable actually.. but it started getting to me that I was the only recognizing it. And then I went to my boss.. and I guess I affected her a bit with being pissed off about the whole situation. I just didn't know what to do. It seemed to perk her up, and she started making calls, and getting a whole plan implemented to have the bus come to work and pick all of these people up.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
Perhaps indecision is not the precise word. Maybe more like "not knowing the concrete steps to
Manuever oneself to their goals"...Which is basically indecision in my eyes lol. I guess this is where subjective perception comes into play, eh.
Yeah it could be indecision too.. While in other cases, it's just absent mindedness? Where what might be obvious to you wouldn't be the other way around. Another thing is that if NFs get enough experience in something, I think they'll come up with solutions too or draw parallels from experience and apply it to something new. They can even handle themselves in extreme situations, if they have experience. But I see it play out like you're saying often.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy123
Well, Siuntal is wrong. If you actually take a look at the subtype system, it's called "system of accepting and producing subtypes." Accepting and producing functions are divided by Rationality/Irrationality, rather than extroversion/introversion. Therefore, an Ni-sub would accentuate Ni, Se, Ne and Si.Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza
You could be N-IEI of some kind, but I'm of the mind that subtype doesn't actually accentuate functions. It accentuates temperament.
I have somewhat stronger Se than Ni, myself. I briefly self-typed SLE because of that, and some of the less retarded people around here seem to type me SLE.
No it doesn't.
Quote:
Accepting/producing is a dichotomy that separates the two functions of each block of Model A. Accepting functions 'come first' in each block and are odd-numbered: 1, 3, 5, and 7. Producing functions 'come second' and are even-numbered: 2, 4, 6, and 8.
Ni and Se are opposite ends of the same dichotomy. They are mutually exclusive. If Ni is accentuated then by definition of what a dichotomy is Se has to be weakened. Same relationship exists between Fe and Ti. Accepting IEI deemphasizes Fe, which means that in super-id block Ti gets accentuated. What you're saying above, that accepting sub emphasizes simultaneously both Ni and Se, as well as Ne and Si which are also dichotomous, is simply nonsensical … how do you even manage to reason yourself into such bs?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseiWell, Siuntal is wrong. If you actually take a look at the subtype system, it's called "system of accepting and producing subtypes." Accepting and producing functions are divided by Rationality/Irrationality, rather than extroversion/introversion. Therefore, an Ni-sub would accentuate Ni, Se, Ne and Si.Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza
Bumping for interest.
exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by octopusloveActually, that might be a good way of telling T and F egos apart. If a group of largely T-egos are sitting around talking about objects and stuff for hours and hours, the people who seem distracted/keep changing the topic to gossip are probably F-egos, and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by stray
one does not tell them apart
What are the biggest similarities and differences between SLE and EIE?
Similarities: Both have huge respect for status & hierarchy, and once they get talking, are difficult to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Arendee
Differences: SLEs are composed, whereas EIEs seem to have more drama, or are flustered. EIEs are masters of human relations, and give insightful advice, whereas SLEs are more in-the-moment.
Similarities - we are loud and and unstoppable when in a good mood and should be avoided when in a bad mood.
Differences - EIEs are more future oriented, tend to be very far from the reality, have a tendency to over-complicate things while SLEs tend to think everything is very simple and are very much here and now people.
EIEs are more spastic with Se and even though others can tell they're left worn out,they themselves feel on top of their game.afterwards they may get easily pissed of for no apparent reason.believe me.i have a good sample size.not.
i believe that Fe base sees how someone "declines" from the system and tries to give advice on how to harmonize oneself with it.that's why,in most cases, i don't find it insightful since the work is not focused internally.they do not help others anchor themselves on safe ground psychologically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaps
I agree with everything you have said here. The similarities and differences are perfect examples imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarinana
EIE wants way more Ti than Se
SLE wants way more Ni than Fe
what happens is that when duals come in contact for the first time, they think they don't really like each other because all they can see is overwhelming amount of the creative function and because of this activity relations which display more of the creative function at first contact seem more attractive.
Exactly! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sarinana
Nice to meet another EIE-Ni. Very nice wording; especially the over-complicating of things part. That is one flaw I'm trying to fix in myself and is rarely listed as a typically EIE thing to do. From my experience, though, SLE are not always that practical in the long run. They can get stuck with details and forget about the big picture.
they both see competition as collective, but their means of inciting it differ; with EIEs it's about being a catalyst, whereas SLEs are catalyzed by involvement... I've noticed that SLEs like to toy with people from a casual distance, and more often than not end up restoring boundaries EIEs cross. coming from a P-sub pov, J-subs are noticeably more controlled and tactile in this respect; boundaries are more important than their purpose. the shared anxiety over how their inner states mesh with them is the source of their conflict... each gripping and releasing.