Ni-PoLR -- How does it manifest in ESFjs and ESTjs?

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Originally Posted by Director Abbie

I finally figured out what PoLR means! So I'm an Ni PoLR. I envy intuitives. They're more creative and they're not bothered by things looking and feeling slightly wrong. As far as :Ni: goes, I don't have the ability to look ahead in time, and can only look back by giving the past a present perspective. This is really annoying.

Last night, I was choosing what I'd wear today. But I didn't know whether it'd be chilld, cold, or freezing outside. I couldn't find the newspaper with this week's weather forecast. My INTj brother suggested that I go outside, find out where the wind is blowing from, and look in that direction to see what the weather would be tomorrow. But even if I tried that, it wouldn't tell me the temperature. My brother suggested that I wait until this morning before I decided what to wear, but I couldn't do that. It would drive me nuts! I said something like, "I'm not gonna wait 'til tomorrow, 'cause tomorrow might not exist. But it probably will, so I'll do everything today just in case, to prepare for tomorrow."

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actually this is more along the lines of what what I think of Ni polr types. Again, for some polrs i recognize it by the HA and absence of the polr function. Some very smart ESTjs seem to totally miss the point when confronted with a task that makes them predict by "knowing" so what an Ne person might do is generate possibilities that are likely. Since the Si ego isn't strong in Ne they will seem overly open to possibility, even to an Ne ego. What I've witnessed.

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Originally Posted by rmcnew

If you want to hit someone with an :Ni: PoLR in a way they can not defend against, just take them out of their environment, grab their belongings, alliances, treasured things, whatever is close to them and make them come to the rescue. They just flounder around usually not knowing what to do or overreact, burning themselves out in the process.

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this i have seen.

joy, yes I worked with two ESEs, and have some casual experience with a few LSE.

LOL. My mother is an ESTj.

A couple of weeks ago this went down...

Mum; Oh look there is some pizza out on the side, we already have soup out...so we should have that for dinner, right?

Step dad; urh... (just a wondering, innocent 'urhh' btw ;))

Mum (SCREAMING); There is fucking soup out!!! Okay?! (in an incredibly patronizing way) So-we-are-putting-the-pizza-back-in-the freezer!

LMAO. What the hell? Me and my EIE sister just crack up at how ridiculous she is sometimes!

And she is always up in everyone’s face saying dumbarse things, like having a go at you about nothing, and she just carries on having a go at you even after you have explained yourself. And shes always screaming when there is nothing even wrong. Like at the cat, when its just walking along... :confused:. Just ughh like so dogmatic, and oblivious to everything that doesn't fit in with what she thinks is.

And hypocritical! She is always yelling at us about how we can't be late, so we get in the car and she is in the house for another 10 mins, and she’s all like -well its not my fault-.

One time she hit my sister around the head because my sister said she had 'cleaned the car'. And she screamed -no you haven't you fucking idiot child', and then like slapped her (she had only cleaned the outside and not the inside and she didn't even have to she was just trying to be nice). And then that same sister is all like -Oh you should respect her- and its like well she’s a total crazy, nasty fool who doesn't respect anyone else so why should I respect her? She has never given me anything to respect.

She can't take responsibility for anything, she never says sorry or that she is wrong. Shes just a total bullying, dense, emotionally stunned idiot , who is clueless in relationships.

I do love her, I just can't stand her.

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Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

Good thread.

I say yes, anything that is about linking abstract concepts, or complex inner worlds. I've never seen a Ni polr get too involved in a book or imaginary world. (They can like guilty pleasures but nothing ever abstract or grand scheme-y.) Not only do Ni dominants have the ability to connect time and continuity in the real world, we can also do it for make-believe ones as well.

They brush off complex problems with a just 'Get over it!', which frustrates me to no end, because I know there has to be an emotional release and a psychological process to overcome big life changes. At least I know that's where it has to start. They tend to break through problems with raw force at the expense of analyzing their true feelings, which works for them because hey, something is always getting done - but it doesn't end up ideally at all, which is what the Ni-type needs. (Or maybe I'm just talking about IEIs) They make stupid decisions by their 'just do it' philosophy, lacking the sense and time of when something should ideally be executed. They try to cover this up by more and more actions, when what they really need to do is sit the fuck down already and pay closer attention to their own emotions and thought processes.

They're rarely honest with their own emotions, but will constantly chastise others if they see them being down. They're unable to admit that they're really upset, and kinda go along until they explode. This EJ-ness upsets IP to no end.

They very much enjoy the emotional release of a preacher attempting to wrinkle out philosophical and moral complexities, but do not think about them further nor are they capable of connecting one abstract concept to the next. So they lack creativity. They're too easily impressed by 'Oprah pop 101 psychology' and shake and shudder at the real thing. Also they can be quite naive if somebody is claiming to 'Help' somebody, when the helper might not have any clue what they're talking about and would only make the situation worse.

I notice I have to CONSTANTLY guide Ni-polrs from going to bad psychologists and therapists and preachers and 'gurus'.

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I feel like a lot of what you described is enneagram related - with like unhealthy 2s or 3s. Also I think what you're talking about I see more with ESFjs > ESTjs in terms of that motivational stuff. ESFjs are more the guys who teach and go to those classes at the learning annex to empower you and give you the motivation it takes to be a millionaire lol.

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Originally Posted by dinki

LOL. My mother is an ESTj.

A couple of weeks ago this went down...

Mum; Oh look there is some pizza out on the side, we already have soup out...so we should have that for dinner, right?

Step dad; urh... (just a wondering, innocent 'urhh' btw ;))

Mum (SCREAMING); There is fucking soup out!!! Okay?! (in an incredibly patronizing way) So-we-are-putting-the-pizza-back-in-the freezer!

LMAO. What the hell? Me and my EIE sister just crack up at how ridiculous she is sometimes!

And she is always up in everyone’s face saying dumbarse things, like having a go at you about nothing, and she just carries on having a go at you even after you have explained yourself. And shes always screaming when there is nothing even wrong. Like at the cat, when its just walking along... :confused:. Just ughh like so dogmatic, and oblivious to everything that doesn't fit in with what she thinks is.

And hypocritical! She is always yelling at us about how we can't be late, so we get in the car and she is in the house for another 10 mins, and she’s all like -well its not my fault-.

One time she hit my sister around the head because my sister said she had 'cleaned the car'. And she screamed -no you haven't you fucking idiot child', and then like slapped her (she had only cleaned the outside and not the inside and she didn't even have to she was just trying to be nice). And then that same sister is all like -Oh you should respect her- and its like well she’s a total crazy, nasty fool who doesn't respect anyone else so why should I respect her? She has never given me anything to respect.

She can't take responsibility for anything, she never says sorry or that she is wrong. Shes just a total bullying, dense, emotionally stunned idiot , who is clueless in relationships.

I do love her, I just can't stand her.

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Interesting, but I don't think this is typical ESTj behaviour or typical of any type for that matter.

Yes Dinki, my sister is married to an ESTj just like that. He actually does everything in there. He also chronically steals womens underwear and wears it throughout the day. He actually stole my grandmothers underwear recently ...

Not thinking of future implications of what you're doing. Too present focused. If the word "later" is used, one would have a tendency to think it means "later today." Bad sense of time, thus plans things out in a schedule ahead of time or else utter PoLR confusion.

Unsure of time measurements, seeks judgment in this area, so if things aren't planned out, tendency to overdo things for a long period of time just to make sure it's done "fully." Poor foresight, sure.

I don't have much experience with this, but these are from definitions I've read, so I'm just trying to find the difference.

I may have written about this here before, but I have an example of Ni-PoLR in action [the girl in question is LSE].

I play a sport that's similar to something like soccer in terms of the physical conditioning involved: lots of speed work with relatvely little endurance for running long and slow. As the season wound down last autumn, an LSE teammate and I decided to keep in shape by taking up running....

Her dad is an avid runner, and he planned to do a half-marathon about eight weeks from when the LSE and I began our running [which I had assumed would be casual, for-the-fun-of-it running]. She decided that we should run it too, and I said that I might [though she took my "maybe" for a "yes" and signed me right up, but that's something else altogether]. I figured, wth, it's a good way to keep in shape... and then I saw the schedule she had made for us to train with: the very first long run was 11 miles! I teased her that it was too much, but out we went at 7am that Saturday morning. We made it through 9 miles running, but had to walk/jog the last two [painful!]. Funny thing was, she couldn't understand why we had such a hard time, since we'd been running for a week already and had worked up to 7 miles or so [no concept of how long it would take to build that type of endurance].

After all that, she still wanted to follow the program she'd made [by chopping off the last 8 weeks of a legit 16-week half-m. training program, lol]. She wanted to go run something like 14 miles the very next week! I lovingly told her she was out of her mind, and we scaled it down a bit... by then I felt committed, so we both ran the half, though [I pulled a muscle during it ):] and I still occasionally tease her about it when she asks me if I want to go for a run....

Anyway, I think that may be a decent example of an Ni-PoLR person underestimating the time necessary to do something, and then not wanting to adjust her set schedule too much because she had a hard time accepting that it would take longer than she initially thought [or wanted it to, at any rate].

Ni POLR IS ABOUT NOT KNOWING WAT TYME OF DAY IT IS, GUYS!

ESTJ CAN"T PREDICT THE FOOCHURE. THEY ARE ALWAYS LATE AND CRASH THEIR CARS BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THE CORRECT TIME TO ACT.


YA SEE, Ni IS ABOUT TIME. TIME TIME TIME.


fuck.this.shit.

Ni polr's get annoyed when you make subjective references that you cannot tangibly perceive.

Si likes contexts that you can sense, demonstrate, and "prove" (prove is an iffy word though)

Ni perceives the abstract and intangible context.

Ni polr's get irked when people make suppositions that cannot be traced back to any specific, concrete setting. "Where the hell did that come from?" "how does this apply here?" "How do you know that?" "That doesn't have anything to do with whats going on." "Show me how you know this".

When Ni-ers sense something unseen unfolding that cannot be "felt"

So Si polrs feel buried in too much information describing an environment that is unreal to them

Ni polrs feel there is not enough information for them to orient themselves and harmonize themselves within their setting.

They are trying to temper and understand their environment. To map out whats going on, the direction that things are moving, what is missing, where resources need to flow (Not Te, this is Si), etc.

Ni provides nothing to them. No good information to work with, its just empty space.

Doesn't have much to do with time at all.

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Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion

Ni polr's get annoyed when you make subjective references that you cannot tangibly perceive.

Si likes contexts that you can sense, demonstrate, and "prove" (prove is an iffy word though)

Ni perceives the abstract and intangible context.

Ni polr's get irked when people make suppositions that cannot be traced back to any specific, concrete setting. "Where the hell did that come from?" "how does this apply here?" "How do you know that?" "That doesn't have anything to do with whats going on." "Show me how you know this".

When Ni-ers sense something unseen unfolding that cannot be "felt"

So Si polrs feel buried in too much information describing an environment that is unreal to them

Ni polrs feel there is not enough information for them to orient themselves and harmonize themselves within their setting.

They are trying to temper and understand their environment. To map out whats going on, the direction that things are moving, what is missing, where resources need to flow (Not Te, this is Si), etc.

Ni provides nothing to them. No good information to work with, its just empty space.

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Interesting stuff.

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Doesn't have much to do with time at all.

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I agree w you that Ni doesn't necessarily deal with time, but I think that it can [or that the effects of strength or weakness in Ni can]. Not that it deals with time itself, though; more like, the unfolding of processes and how they will unfold [i.e. how much time they will take]. So it's connections, like you said above; they have a hard time connecting things [ideas, steps in processes, whatever] that are abstractly related [an example being through time].

I hope that makes sense typed out here....

yeah, Ni is about abstract processes, thats not too bad.

But Si is about concrete processes

So both deal with "time", but as its usually described in mainstream socionics Si has more to do with time.

Especially when you speak of time in such a tangible, measured, and concrete way.

Like, a video of a forest growing over hundreds of years, is more Si like. Its a forest. It has tangible traits, it is "real" its there to be sensed. The unfolding of time in this sense is not very abstract, now is it?

I agree with you, AA.

Sometimes I'll say something that I "just know" like something I have an awareness of and I can't exactly pinpoint why, and my husband (ESE) will say "you don't know that! You just made that up." and I'll just smile.... :D It amuses me.

yeah exactly. Its more about a sudden catalyzed awareness of some "ripple".

For an Ni polr to understand you you need to relate the ripple to something that is demonstrable. You cant just pull things out of your ass, "How can I see this myself? How can I touch this?"

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Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion

yeah exactly. Its more about a sudden catalyzed awareness of some "ripple".

For an Ni polr to understand you you need to relate the ripple to something that is demonstrable. You cant just pull things out of your ass, "How can I see this myself? How can I touch this?"

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but it's fun. :lol:

then there's my sle friend who ASKS me for it (which is new to me). once we were at a repair shop and he wanted my opinion about the guy (whom I had just met) so I gave him my gut feeling and I told him I didn't have much to base it on and he said that gut feelings were sometimes the best and I was like :shock: :D :love:

I'm not sure how well this relates, but I heard this LSE rant about politicians. He basically said that he wouldn't want someone he elected into the house of representatives to go on to the senate or even to the presidency because "if I vote you into the house, I want you to stay there and do your job." I kinda got the feeling he didn't value political ambitions, or any kind of ambitions for that matter.

Here's a question: do you feel like you can't distinguish between important and unimportant things? Do you have trouble prioritizing? What IM would that be related to?

oops, I just answered my own question about prioritizing, so forget I asked that.

hmm thats too general.

Im sure all types can distinguish between "important" and "unimportant" things

could be... I think Ni polr might snap in that way, "Cool it, get back down to earth, what are you talkign about?"

bit vague, sorry.

hah well malia disagrees.

Yeah actually that might not be Ni polr... I mean if someone snapped at me like that I'd get annoyed.

Maybe a male ESTj would do that out of anxiety

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Originally Posted by MaliaFee

The above is 100% NOT me. I have experienced that behavior in SLE females, though...

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yeah not at all like my ESE mom either

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Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

I guess I touched LSE Ni PoLR in this thread of today. Maybe that could be interesting as an example of how Ni PoLR can manifest?

Also I have an ESE mother. She actually relies a lot on her hunches as well, so I don't think she would have recognized herself in AAs description, but of course she uses Fe and not Ni, so her hunches often seem a bit one-dimentional to me (or religious, even (she's a christian)). In her, I meet Ni PoLR mostly as something that feels like paranoia. It seems she thinks I'm trying to be "better" than her, or something, telling me I am "acting overly intellectual" whenever I try to communicate my inner thoughts. She has expressed that she feels I'm trying to put myself above her. Very weird, as I only try to be really open. So the more genuine I am, the more she thinks I'm acting or testing a conceptual idea, and the more I just talk superficial bullshit, the more she finds me "nice" and "real". It's weird, I know. Not sure this is Ni PoLR behavior, but I've experienced this with other ESEs too.

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That part does not seem like an ESFj.

I notice in an ESE that she is always doing things that seem to be ordered sporadically. If I were doing it I would be like "ok, I'll do this in this order so that I don't have to make any extra effort." She just wants it done right away without any thought to how she could save time. For example, she wanted me to bring something to my uncle, and I told her I would just before I met up with a friend of mine so that I wouldn't have to do any extra driving. Then, she was just like why can't you just do it right now and get it over with? For a second I just kinda stood confused because I had just told her why. Procrastination is not in her vocabulary, even if at times it would make sense to procrastinate.

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Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

You are not Ni leading, so why would she? :)

And she doesn't snap, really, she's a very nice woman, lol. Don't misunderstand. It is rather that she misunderstands me, and complains about my thoughts. She is convinced I am acting out of a need to intellectualize, and tells me what she feels. It hurts, as she's my mother, but it's not said to hurt. She really believes she is right about this, and says it to make me "normal" or something, I think. I have to mention she is quite religious, and if you have read my "inner thoughts" on this forum, you see my view is not very "christian". In other words, some of this could happen because of her disappointment with my thoughts.

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ahhh I didn't think about it intertype-wise... my bad :oops:

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Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

I guess I touched LSE Ni PoLR in this thread of today. Maybe that could be interesting as an example of how Ni PoLR can manifest?

Also I have an ESE mother. She actually relies a lot on her hunches as well, so I don't think she would have recognized herself in AAs description, but of course she uses Fe and not Ni, so her hunches often seem a bit one-dimentional to me (or religious, even (she's a christian)). In her, I meet Ni PoLR mostly as something that feels like paranoia. It seems she thinks I'm trying to be "better" than her, or something, telling me I am "acting overly intellectual" whenever I try to communicate my inner thoughts. She has expressed that she feels I'm trying to put myself above her. Very weird, as I only try to be really open. So the more genuine I am, the more she thinks I'm acting or testing a conceptual idea, and the more I just talk superficial bullshit, the more she finds me "nice" and "real". It's weird, I know. Not sure this is Ni PoLR behavior, but I've experienced this with other ESEs too.

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I experience this with my ESE grandma for sure.

I can relate with spiritual belief difference too.

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Originally Posted by MaliaFee

The above is 100% NOT me. I have experienced that behavior in SLE females, though...

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It could be more of a spiritual divide having nothing to do with type, I do find the coincidence startling though.

oh, I have another question. How do you react to the following statement:

"If you have to ask, then you'll never know"

oh, but how it fits in with the Ni PoLR is hard for me to explain. Maybe the Ni types would do a better job at it.

Maybe it's like you think everything in the world can be explained to you in one way or another. Some things can't be, or maybe they can, but just explaining it to you wouldn't really have the same impact as if you came to the realization on your own. It's a spiritual thing. If I told you "pain is just an illusion" you might think "ok, so what?" but under the right circumstances, if I told you the same thing, you'd be like "ooohhhhh, that's what you mean"

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Originally Posted by fear of sleep

oh, I have another question. How do you react to the following statement:

"If you have to ask, then you'll never know"

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Originally Posted by fear of sleep

oh, but how it fits in with the Ni PoLR is hard for me to explain. Maybe the Ni types would do a better job at it.

Maybe it's like you think everything in the world can be explained to you in one way or another. Some things can't be, or maybe they can, but just explaining it to you wouldn't really have the same impact as if you came to the realization on your own. It's a spiritual thing. If I told you "pain is just an illusion" you might think "ok, so what?" but under the right circumstances, if I told you the same thing, you'd be like "ooohhhhh, that's what you mean"

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I've never really thought about it before, but yeah. If I come to a realization myself, it's wayyy better than if someone explains it. Often, I have to read over something several times to get the gist. If I don't get the gist, then it's like I memorized it and I don't really understand it. Once I understand something, it's like it all just plays out. Like if you gave me 1 + 1 = 2 and I really understood every aspect, I could work my way up to explaining calculus. Obviously that's an exaggeration, but it's kinda like that, and I have experienced simpler versions of that especially with math. A lot of the time in math classes I find myself saying to myself "I could have figured that out" or "I saw that coming."

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Originally Posted by MaliaFee

Actually, in the case of this particular statement, I'm annoyed as well. Haha...

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The way I see it is that it's not really a good example of PoLR unless you feel annoyed, so it must be a good one :biggrin:

Being aimless busybody, that does a lot and achieves little
Being unwise, often making poor desicicions that are gravely going to haunt them later on
Lack of vision, I don't mean eyesight
Lack of foresight
Focus on immediate needs
Not thinking far ahead, in case of FeSi's not thinking at all ;)
Not understanding chains of cause and effect
Wasting energy
Naive realism
Often self-indulgent
Hedonism
Superficial

the two Ni polrs I know worry alot about how everyday events are going to turn out, when it's all really going to be fine.. or, on some level, it's pretty irrelevant. they seem to be in a constant panic to me

Finding something to do for the sake of doing it, when really it doesn't need to be done. Inventing stuff to do, so one doesn't have to look inward.

To be fair, my Ni is too good, sometimes I will look into something so deeply when I just need to move on and accomplish another task. I often get criticized for being *too* perceptive and *too* insightful.

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Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

Finding something to do for the sake of doing it, when really it doesn't need to be done. Inventing stuff to do, so one doesn't have to look inward.

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yup. my husband can find all sorts of tasks that "need" to get done, to actually avoid relaxing. :shock: And I'm like "why don't you sit down?" and he'll say "because if I don't do this, it will never get done" and I'll say "so? maybe it doesn't need to get done" and he'll stare at me blankly or say "you just don't get me". (which is probably true to an extent)

Here is what I think Ni is about: forecasting, foresight, strategy, romantic daydreaming, and an interest in the deeply mystical, symbolic, or spiritual.

IMO, for all practical purposes, what Ni-PoLR amounts to is an inability to engage in those things in a competent/enjoyable manner, and a disliking of those qualities in others.

Consider lack of foresight. I met someone who I thought was an ESE who was in teacher's college. She was hoping that she would get a job as a full-time teacher after she graduated. The problem is that this isn't a realistic forecast of what will likely happen. An ILI would have probably annoyed her by projecting this gloomy outcome and leaving it at that. When she told me this, I told her the truth, but I tried to help her by getting her to look on the bright side and at other possibilities. In this way, it might be that it isn't just Ni in isolation that bothers XSEs, but also the fact that it isn't accompanied by other more helpful functions.

Jason

MaliaFee, by reading your post there seem to be a lot of detail oriented "recall" towards your experience. I think that itself can tell that you are Si over Ni.

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Originally Posted by polikujm

Not thinking of future implications of what you're doing. Too present focused. If the word "later" is used, one would have a tendency to think it means "later today." Bad sense of time, thus plans things out in a schedule ahead of time or else utter PoLR confusion.

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You really need to get out of that shitty box you're living in. That has absolutely nothing to do with Ni polr. At all.

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Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion

Ni polr's get annoyed when you make subjective references that you cannot tangibly perceive.

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Well, I get more annoyed when people can't draw a direct line of logic/etc. Like, intangible things are fine, as long as the concepts are concrete.

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Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion

Si likes contexts that you can sense, demonstrate, and "prove" (prove is an iffy word though)

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I probably wouldn't use the word prove, and it's more about contexts that have exact meaning/apply then being "experiential" in nature. Perhaps its different for Si Xp's, but Ne agenda (I would think is the reason) with Si base really just sets me to dislike exactly what you describe here:

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Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion

Ni polr's get irked when people make suppositions that cannot be traced back to any specific, concrete setting. "Where the hell did that come from?" "how does this apply here?" "How do you know that?" "That doesn't have anything to do with whats going on." "Show me how you know this".

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Except I would change the words "specific, concrete setting" to "specific definition/logical track"

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Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion

Doesn't have much to do with time at all.

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At all.

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Originally Posted by redbaron

Sometimes I'll say something that I "just know" like something I have an awareness of and I can't exactly pinpoint why, and my husband (ESE) will say "you don't know that! You just made that up." and I'll just smile.... :D It amuses me.

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I say that shit all the time! lol (along with those questions in Jake's quote)

I'm always saying "That doesn't apply," or "You just made that up," or "But that isn't the real issue here," etc.

Like I said before, I think that (for "j" Si-ers at least) Ni messes with Ne to the point that Si becomes uncomfortable. It's trying to attach an internal dynamic to an unchanging, static concept. Ni almost holds Ne together, so that anyone using Ni doesn't allow for the separation of concepts through Ne, and Si is, basically, "trapped" in a single, static space, rather than having it's normal motion/division/summation abilities. It's (Ni's) like a roadblock to Si, stopping its horizontal dynamic to try and drag it along a vertical one.

I have a friend who I've tentatively typed LSE. She's into planning ahead, and she often makes detailed long-term plans that ignore all the factors that can change over time. These plans often encapsulate very specific, non-changing relationships and life goals without an awareness of the fragility inherent in said relationships and goals, so the plans often end up collapsing under the weight of time. Does this sound like Ni PoLR?

If it is, it seems like it's Ni PoLR with a healthy dose of Te leading... like, Te sort of blundering ahead without any perspective. So what would Ni PoLR look like in ESEs?

I've done the same thing.

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Originally Posted by limNol

So what would Ni PoLR look like in ESEs?

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Relatively unrealistic plans?

Ni is more than just its relation to foresight.

However, I see Ni PoLR manifest as a need to be able to see productivity instead of letting it happen behind the scenes. Actions must be visible and plans must be known from start to finish, any secrecy or ambiguity is feared as a threat. Ni can be viewed as the "journey" function. So when it comes time to plan something, it will be done as if the "journey" is dangerous and subject to uncertainty, therefore measures will be taken so as to account for the most possible negative outcomes. The plan will try to shorten the "journey" as best as it can so the uncertainty period will not last long.

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Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold

Ni is more than just its relation to foresight.

However, I see Ni PoLR manifest as a need to be able to see productivity instead of letting it happen behind the scenes. Actions must be visible and plans must be known from start to finish, any secrecy or ambiguity is feared as a threat. Ni can be viewed as the "journey" function. So when it comes time to plan something, it will be done as if the "journey" is dangerous and subject to uncertainty, therefore measures will be taken so as to account for the most possible negative outcomes. The plan will try to shorten the "journey" as best as it can so the uncertainty period will not last long.

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I think that is a really good way of putting it.

The curious thing is that after having spent more time with a delta NF who is very strong at both Ne and Ni, I legitimately feel more confident about Ni matters. It's really cool. I feel less wary about "having to see everything", and being able to witness how they interpret time and development of things makes me reconsider my way of thinking about such. It's nice.

But, this absolutely does not mean that Ni polr types, if paried with strong intuition people, will 'become better'. I'm probably still not very good, and I know tonnes of other Ni porl people who still suck bad and if anything just run to other people who seem better than they are.