How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?
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How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?
Me! I <3 ESEs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
Why is this a thread?
Not even sure what that would mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
Could mean different things. In this case, for the most part it probably means that a Ni PoLR makes sense for them... not just that they're presumably ESxj and therefore must have a Ni PoLR.
I grew up with one.
Basically, it means this:
Edit:
I will procrastinate dealing with complex problems until the world falls down around me
Which of the eight aspects of reality are you referring to? :p
(but in any case, healthy people don't do that, regardless of their type)
yeah, says santa clause and the easter bunny
Si-ESFj 2w3 so/sp mom -- shocker, I know. And a bunch of machismo douche bag husbands in my neighborhood are ESTjs. The way this magnificent phenomenon seems to operate is, essentially, lacking a propensity for implicit, abstract connections between things. From an Ni base perspective, these people seem pedantic and unable to process anything that isn't spelled out neatly for them. They would probably see me as someone who is overly-vague and lacking clarity in thought/communication. I've never witnessed any time management crap being related to Ni polr, and I hope this thread doesn't get bombarded with such things. ESxj's just seem really, really concrete and unable to traverse outside of the current, externally-defined context/dynamic that they are operating in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.
what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.
It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.
this is hilarious, because this is exactly how i feel toward Ne-PoLR types.
lol +20Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
Ne polr types seem to make the implicit connections fine to me; it's just that they seem unable to sort of permutate anything externally. They will frequently take an overly-definitive attitude towards a given idea, which may have validity up to a certain point, but inevitably will cause them to miss some other angles. But theirs is different than the ESxj's -- the former being inept at seeing the external connections/interpolations, the latter being inept at synthesizing things internally. A matter of being unwilling to break anything down vs. sucking at centralizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritella
Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
That's very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
Now, if you can just stop getting giddy with your lols and realize when you're taking emotionally charged biases against people based on your likes and dislikes, you could get even better; that's what's annoying, at times (to me). But I like what you wrote there - you seem to have more understanding now than before, and it's nice to see the growth and better ability to explain things well.
PS: I think I am starting to understand (that type of behavioral) better, though, in terms of your loling and emotionality stuff. It seems to be a matter of realizing when you're just "roasting things" for sake of "generating energy", versus when you're actually just trying to explain something fully. When you mix the two together, both seem less weighty. But that is perhaps related to my own lack of understanding about such things.
(I wrote this post in reference to "strrrng", but there's a lot of carry over to other people I know who are like him and have similar motivations and tendencies)
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by UDP
lol, point taken. I appreciate it.Quote:
Now, if you can just stop getting giddy with your lols and realize when you're taking emotionally charged biases against people based on your likes and dislikes, you could get even better; that's what's annoying, at times (to me). But I like what you wrote there - you seem to have more understanding now than before, and it's nice to see the growth and better ability to explain things well.
Yeah, it's sort of frequently co-mingled with the explanation part, so a lot can be lost, like you said. I might just see a weakness in the person, something I dislike, flaw in the argument, and decide to, instead of calmly countering it, 'burn' it, so to speak (the roasting image was lucid and hilarious).Quote:
PS: I think I am starting to understand (that type of behavioral) better, though, in terms of your loling and emotionality stuff. It seems to be a matter of realizing when you're just "roasting things" for sake of "generating energy", versus when you're actually just trying to explain something fully. When you mix the two together, both seem less weighty. But that is perhaps related to my own lack of understanding about such things.
Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but there are much worse things than that".Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.
Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
As you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
That's true, I have seen Ni polr manifest itself as time retardation. But strrrngs sentiments are more to do with not having people think of it only in those terms, which is likely to happen given peoples bookworm understanding of socionics and seeming lack of real world experience.
For example, there was this day I had 30 minutes until work, so my ride (ESFj-Fe mother) decided to run to the mall 'real quick'. She got caught in traffic both on the way there, and in the parking garage; and then she didn't consider the 5 minute walk INTO the mall, then back. It took her an hour, and I ended up 30 minutes late for work. She is also terrible at estimating traveling times. Like we'll always arrive at the airport hours early, then sit around for 2-3 hours. If we need to drive to the store real fast, it'll 'just take 5 minutes' .. where there's no way it'll take less then 20. etc.
My ESTj-Te bro quit his new job because he was 10 minutes late. So he decided not to go in at all.
etc.
That's the opposite of what I've seen. Si-PoLRs are often late, and people with strong Ni are ultra punctual. An example - my ESFj and ISFp inlaws were visiting at my house, and they were supposed to go hang out with my ENTj and ENFj parents. I told them how hyper-punctual my parents were and had to work hard to get them out of the house, because they are usually late to things. I got them out at least close to on time, but TWO MINUTES after they were supposed to be there, my parents called asking why they were late.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuturututu
Also, my ISTp husband, not Ni PoLR but weak and unvalued Ni anyway, is always late. He will tell me he'll be back at 1 and I just translate it in my head to 1:30 to 1:40 or so. And it's worse if he's out with his ESTj friend. They just don't pay attention at all to the time. If they say they'll be back at 1, I might end up calling at 4 to see where they are.
Yeah, you're right. They are often late on accident; or because they really don't give shit; they don't recognize the obligation. But I also think they're the folks who become annoyed BY lateness, where a Ni dominant type will adapt to the new schedule with no effort; and this may be because the lateness itself brings up the topic of Ni.
I guess that was a typo. You meant Ni-PoLRs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
I've never said that Ni-PoLRs are punctual. But they really appreciate when others are. They all have "if I don't undertake this/that/everything now, then world is going to fall apart"-attitude. So existance of schedules saves them from burnout. Otherwise they would be even more lost-in-the-fog.
Hmm. Well, my ESE husband and I are almost never late to anything. He hates being late, mostly because he wants to be efficient with his time (efficiency is very important to him) and for me it's just a matter of knowing how long things are going to take and building in the extra time for unforeseen circumstances. Especially with kids, this is important. When I point it out that we ought to build in extra time for this or that, he agrees with me and seems grateful that I pointed it out. And yes, he's usually annoyed with other people being late or if we're late due to circumstances beyond our control (i.e. traffic). In that situation I have to calm him down and assure him that it's not a big deal. He lets me take the lead with this stuff and seems to appreciate it. He sometimes calls me a pessimist but I just tell him I'm a realist.
He does have an occasional problem with not eating and letting his blood sugar get too low. He will sometimes (usually at work or at home if he's in the middle of a project) put off eating until he's extremely crabby. Even if I come to him and say "you really should come eat something", he won't. I have to literally bring the food to him. Then afterwards he'll be like yeah, I was hungry, you were right, whoa is it already 1:00? it's like he just doesn't realize how long the project's going to take and isn't paying attention to anything internal since he's so externally focused. I don't know if that's Ni PoLR, just throwing it out there.
Actually, I hate when things are late too (I also hate to be late myself, so I am always super punctual - but I also know ENTjs that don't have this fixation, so I can't chalk it up to type). One of the things I can tolerate less in others is consistent lateness. I can't really live for them (if somebody is late 3 hours to a meeting, I don't go doing something else - I keep on waiting them, so it's 3 hours of my life completely wasted).Quote:
Originally Posted by tuturututu
One ESTj and four ESFjs I know are doing that regularly. Is that positively correlated with Ni PoLR? I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
Lol, so you say 'by not voting I essentially voted for both candidates', then you argue that into the ground.
You have to admit, it can be fun baiting Ni polr.
It seems unusual for an ESFj to destroy the mood of things over something like that; but then again, I really can't imagine an ESTj caring so much about voting.
Admittedly, my mother always has this urgency bordering on panic tone in her voice when discussing possible outcomes of the most trivial things.
Some of this is also Ne HA function.
Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.
This is totally not true for my ESE. That would drive me bonkers. My husband is really good at listening to other points of view. I even changed his mind on the death penalty stance. That was years ago. But anyway, he's good at admitting when he's wrong, and not just about political ideas. He says he's sorry more than I do (for things like not being as patient as he should be with the kids or for emotionally over-reacting to things).Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
In defence of those who have a Ni-PoLR, I once had my wallet stolen by an INFp.
this depends on how emotionally invested he is in the topic at hand. And when converting his views on things, it's not an immediate thing. It definitely takes awhile for him to come to a new conclusion. I didn't mean to imply that he would immediately agree with me. The change of his opinion on the death penalty was over the course of months, maybe a year. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
Usually Ti & Fe will mean the ESFj does listen to what you have to say, but due to their polr they just don't get it; and they seem to be primarily interested in preserving the stability of the situation at all times, to the point where this cripples their ability to face things.
ESTj, on the other hand, is more like a volcanic dumbass, and the ESTj in my life I'm thinking of reminds me of the guy you describe; I can even see the Steve Irwin analogy; I put it up to a repressed longing for Ne & Fi. It's like he's putting on a show to win peoples emotions.
While there's quite a few things that make me cringe a bit when reading this thread, I can't deny many of them are true. I will however single this one out as considerably wrong, at least to me. While it may seem like you're able to lie to an ESFJ, I'd bet that much of the time... in the back of their mind, all they're thinking is: "Ugh, this guy is so full of shit.:8*"Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
I would say I'm pretty hard for a person to lie to, in real life of course... Whether we bring it up that we think you're full of shit is another story, much of the time I just let things roll off as if whatever lie I was just told really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Unless I feel like being a prick, then I'll call their lie and see a funny looking :? followed by a :oops:.
I've actually noticed this with both N-PoLR types when confronted with their PoLR function. With ESFjs, they focus on trying to preserve the Fe dynamic and the harmony that's there so they may phobicly comply with whatever the supervisor is saying or try to divert attention away from it. With ESTjs, particularly Te ESTjs, if you throw a lot of Ni at them they react like this rat trying to run through this maze, bumping into walls, turning around, running in circles, because it seems that without their Si groundwork, their Te will just be like one of those wind up cars that you wind up and it just runs aimlessly - hitting and bouncing off whatever it will. A car without a driver. Heh that's probably why they're afraid of it. Throwing a lot of Ni at a ESTj is like telling them to drive but without the road. And lol I don't know why I've been more amused at ESTjs handling Ni than I have ESFjs handling it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
With Ne PoLR:
I notice a similar phobic response to Ne particularly with Ti ISTjs. You try to show them the different external manifestations in the world or the "shortcuts" to take to accomplish a certain external goal and they give the deer in the headlights look too. They'd rather stick to the way that they know gets them where they need to get. I may explain to them how the shortcut I came up with makes things easier or how it accomplishes the same essential purpose as their more drawn out method. They'll listen, seemingly understand the logic of it, but then continue to do things in their same way as if I hadn't said anything.
I will admit that my Si-ESFj mom is a retard when it comes to estimating timing. Usually it has to do with how long it will take her to arrive at a place via car. When I conceptualize it, I take into account the general effects of traffic, and sort of get a rough visual of the path. She seems to just randomly choose a number and stick by it, to linearize the process or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
I actually agree, lol. It seems that if you cloak whatever you're saying in good enough literal terms, that they won't be able to peer underneath to what's really going on. While the Fe of ESFj's may be adept at reading peoples' emotions, it's bound to the external context of Si, making it very ostensibly based. And ESTjs...lol don't even go there.Quote:
Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.
I think this is right. They will listen to you so much as the FeSi harmony isn't perturbed. And sometimes they'll get in this ******y mode where they actually think they're integrating what you're saying into that dynamic -- more so the Si normative function -- when in reality you're just trying to get the point through their head. And then they'll pretend to get it, and offer some facile Ne correlation, and get all happy that people are getting along. They just do not want the Si continuum upset by Se "splashes" (picture a placid pond), nor do they want anything "out of nowhere" being introduced.Quote:
Usually Ti & Fe will mean the ESFj does listen to what you have to say, but due to their polr they just don't get it; and they seem to be primarily interested in preserving the stability of the situation at all times, to the point where this cripples their ability to face things.
True, strrrng.
And these types are also terrible at getting away with lies. My ESTj-Te brother in law has gotten caught 4 or 5 times cheating on my ENFj sister. But what makes this of interest, is all times he's gotten caught because he didn't delete text messages off his cellphone. He never learns his lesson. Basically she notices he has his phone on vibrate, and next time it rings she acts like she'll get the phone for him to be helpful. He spazzes out with some transparent on the fly cover for why she doesn't need to get the phone for him. Later she looks at his emails. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again soon
Please try to keep the discussion to talking about Ni PoLR and not try to use that thread as an excuse to talk about all the reasons you may have for not liking certain things about ESxJ's. I don't really see where shitty cheesecake or not liking someone's cherished traditions really have anything to do with people's Ni PoLR's. :confused:
The thing about traditions is actually a common trait, and has to do with the normative Si function.Quote:
Originally Posted by cracka
ISFps are very into tradition also, yes. But it's not due to Ni-PoLR.Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
hee hee funny image. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Diana
My ESE hates mushrooms and he loves to jump on the trampoline with the kids. ;)
We just needed the background on her so you could say some negative things about the ESFJ you know? I didn't mention those parts of what you wrote because they were irrelevant to what I was pointing out. What I was saying, was that you were saying something negative about this person that's not even relevant to the actual thread topic. Which, As I pointed out, just makes this thread look like a reason to talk shit about Ni PoLR types. My response was just trying to keep that from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana
I actually don't care if it's the truth or not, actually, I'm sure it is...lol. I was merely pointing out what I said I was pointing out... I never said anything here wasn't the truth, well, other than my original post about being lied to earlier in the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana
What a perfect example of what people in this thread have been saying the whole time.
That's why I'm here. :Ni:Quote:
Originally Posted by strrrng
If cracka is an example of Ni PoLR than I'm all for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.
For me it's more that I think everyone is suspicious and trust very few. I don't fall for lies very often, but I'm more prone to seeing enemies when there are none.Quote:
Originally Posted by cracka
Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
I relate to volcanic dumbass. When I'm angry I just have to step away from things otherwise I just attack. Being so angry actually acts as a sort of "shutoff" from taking in information, which is bad, and I think can definitely make me stupider or at least act stupider.
I relate to that. Unless I 'catch myself', and really think about the consequences of things, "how I feel" takes precedence. It's worse when I don't realize what's going on, and get so caught up in things that I don't see the effects of what I'm doing in the relational or personal sphere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfall
You're right about ESFjs and traditions. But this extends beyond their personal traditions into the traditions of society as a whole, and Ni polr creates a kind of paranoia in this area where if we don't follow these traditions, something 'bad may happen'. For example, we live on an airforce base. I was ready to go out with my friend; I think we were going to the food court or something. So anyway, I had a brown shirt on. Now my mother notices this, and decides I couldn't leave; and she catapults us into an argument, because she thought I would be 'arrested for having a shirt on which resembled a military uniform'.
It took about 20 minutes to convince her to leave me alone and be quiet. In these situations, ESFjs will play like they're struggling for the greater good. Their statements are mostly composed of guilt trips, appeals to authority; raising their voice in a tone of panic and fear, etc. After the argument's over, the ESFj gets in a sorrowful mood; you will be feeling like someone has died in your house, for about 2 hours or so.
I finally figured out what PoLR means! So I'm an Ni PoLR. I envy intuitives. They're more creative and they're not bothered by things looking and feeling slightly wrong. As far as :Ni: goes, I don't have the ability to look ahead in time, and can only look back by giving the past a present perspective. This is really annoying.
Last night, I was choosing what I'd wear today. But I didn't know whether it'd be chilld, cold, or freezing outside. I couldn't find the newspaper with this week's weather forecast. My INTj brother suggested that I go outside, find out where the wind is blowing from, and look in that direction to see what the weather would be tomorrow. But even if I tried that, it wouldn't tell me the temperature. My brother suggested that I wait until this morning before I decided what to wear, but I couldn't do that. It would drive me nuts! I said something like, "I'm not gonna wait 'til tomorrow, 'cause tomorrow might not exist. But it probably will, so I'll do everything today just in case, to prepare for tomorrow."
Really trying to understand.. I'm sure it gives some insight into Ni polrQuote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
THAT is the most repulsive shit! everyone who thinks this is me is fucked up in the brain! :) lol those are the bitches that piss me off the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
well, fwiw, my ESE isn't like that. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by dbmmama
The person I describe is an ESFj-Fe. Do you know your subtype? Are you sure of your type? ESFj-Fe & ESTj-Te seem to have the most problems with their ni polr
You make a good point that individual differences count alot
whoever is, they are on the top of my "shit list." a mother in law at a birthday party yesterday is like that. OMG. fuck off lady. ive learned to WALK AWAY or the gloves come off (metaphorically)!Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
I'm not sure of his subtype at all. If I had to guess, I'd say Fe. But I'm 99% certain of ESFj. Regarding your paragraph, I will say that he does get sorrowful after an argument and very apologetic. But there aren't guilt trips or appeals to authority and people stomping on traditions doesn't seem to get his goat that much. He's pretty level-headed and reasonable. Unless he's in traffic and then it all comes out. lol Okay so he gets angry when traffic lights are too long, or if other drivers are stupid or when the layout of a particular intersection doesn't make sense to him (but my EIE aunt is the same, especially regarding other drivers). He hates the No Turn on Red signs but usually won't turn even if no one's coming, he just sits there and complains about it (unlike my SLE friend who just turns anyway, no sweat). Strikes me as Ej temperament in general I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
That's just stupid. If you base your views of ESFJ's on shit like this, no wonder you'd think they're idiots. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
*Note, I'm not saying your mother is stupid, just that situation being stupid.
i LOVE driving. the in, out, timing with other cars. i love it. hubby is the one who gets like what you say about your hubby. when he's sitting there complaining about a no turn on red, i say, just fucking go.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
I love driving too:)Quote:
Originally Posted by dbmmama
I do think the ESFj-Fe & ESTj-Te who I'm using as examples are particularly unhealthy people. Then again, I don't know too many 'real healthy' people.
The thing about people with :Ni: PoLRs is that they do not like to be separated from their things and if they do get separated, they freak out. They hate it when their environment changes and tend to move to new environments that they are familiar in. They lack environmental adaptation.
Many of them have problems looking ahead. ESE usually gather alot of friends who help take care of each other [at the expense of those close to them] and have no idea how to pay their bills usually, and ELE tend to be loners even in groups and tend to only pick a few people to be friends with out of a group even as they are usually infatuated with the whole group.
If you want to hit someone with an :Ni: PoLR in a way they can not defend against, just take them out of their environment, grab their belongings, alliances, treasured things, whatever is close to them and make them come to the rescue. They just flounder around usually not knowing what to do or overreact, burning themselves out in the process. You can also turn people they may use against you [and they will try this] against them. Just be careful that your actions in using :Ni: in this matter does not sink you in the process as well as them, as it might.
If you want to hit Reuben "No PoLR" McNew in a way he cannot defend against, just take him out of his environment against his will, burn his house down, drive his car into the river, kidnap his family and then interrogate him until he tells you Pi to a hundred places. He'll just flounder around usually not knowing what to do or he'll overreact, burning himself out in the process if you have not already done so.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
I have an No PoLR ... ? The rest just sounds evil. But then, so does my description on how to hit an :Ni: PoLR, which I do not recommend doing unless you are ENTj or INTp and are forced to live with a bunch of thieving lazy ESFjs or ISFps with no buisness logic who are about to escape when money runs dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subterranean
Well you have a moving PoLR that noone can hit. I was just telling people how to defeat you in a similar manner to how you told people how to defeat Ni-PoLR typesQuote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
You were being sarcastic, which is a far cry from being educational.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subterranean
You were being yourself, which is a far cry from being educational. I would think you could learn more from sarcasm then from nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
I should just start labeling my posts "warning: above Subterranean's understanding" or something to that effect then ... or whatever your actually problem is, which apparently is above my own understanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subterranean
You seem to think that an INTp or an INFp would not be absolutely distraught by the knowledge that you had grabbed their belongings, alliances and treasured things to the same degree that an ESFj or an ESTj would.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
Good ... I see your point now that it is cleared from sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subterranean
:Ni: is about separation, where :Si: is about bonding. People with :Si: as a creative function have :Ni: as a PoLR. They want to bond things. If you separate their doings, they have no defense against it as it gunks their capability to use :Si: and bond things. This is why I said that people with an :Ni: PoLR are vulnerable to separation and being caused to come to the rescue.
It is also true that an INTp and INFp could be vulnerable to this, but then they have a better chance of defending against it. An INFp would just try to equalize the effects of seperation and an INTp would just confuse whoever was trying to seperate them, so they are most likely to neutralize anyones efforts to attempt this and turn the tables. ESTjs and ESFjs have no clue how to handle this and would probably just sit there like a deer in a headlight waiting to get smashed.
Interesting. How does this fit in with creative :Se: in ISTj's and ISFj's :Ni: PoLR?Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
ISTjs and ISFjs have :Ne: as a PoLR ... they tend to largely lack group dynamic abilities when it comes to creating joint ventures [not to say that they do not have leadership abilities, but they have problems with creating motivation and guiding large groups of people] and are vulnerable to large groups of people ganging up on them when they interact with group dynamics. It is not uncommon for ISTjs and ISFjs to piss off large groups of people and to even be violently attacked. ISTjs and ISFjs tend to make up for this by "adding artificial value" to themselves that makes people see them as "in style or swing of things" or by causing people to underestimate their ability, but showing they compensate for it somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Makes sense thanks. I find they have difficulty tieing in projects, which in a way i've thought is a lack of synthesis of :Te: Sorry for the mis-type re Ni and Ne..and knowing what I meant :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
rmcnew: You are right that Ni is about seperation of bonded objects and Si is about bonding seperated objects; and good observation. I feel like I can see the functions from a Ne perspective a little bit better. Do you have anything to say about the other functions?
I yell random syllables.
Why are we more unhealthy than others? Everyone has a PoLR. You're putting too much value in :Ni:.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
Very true! A couple forums I used to frequent changed their setup. I got lost and abandoned them.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
I think that an ENTj or an ENFj would be just as distraught as an ESFj or an ESTj would be if they knew you had grabbed that you had grabbed their belongings, alliances and treasured things. As for INFps and INTps - they might have a better chance of defending themselves if only because their associations with these things are likely to be more discreet. But you'd expect Ni-dominants to be less able to cope out of sheer introversion.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
But I don't know why you are saying such odd things.
You aren't properly interpreting what he said. Read it again
How well would you do in this situation? Is your name Jack Bauer or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
:lol: I do think my ESE husband has a harder time than I do with adapting to changes. In general. Getting his bearings in unfamiliar territory. That's why when we travel, I'm the one who does the planning, the mapping out, the leading, etc. He's a little bit deer-in-the-headlights with that stuff. Which always is surprising to me for some reason but I'm getting used to it. (after 15 years, lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Subterranean
Good thread.
I say yes, anything that is about linking abstract concepts, or complex inner worlds. I've never seen a Ni polr get too involved in a book or imaginary world. (They can like guilty pleasures but nothing ever abstract or grand scheme-y.) Not only do Ni dominants have the ability to connect time and continuity in the real world, we can also do it for make-believe ones as well.
They brush off complex problems with a just 'Get over it!', which frustrates me to no end, because I know there has to be an emotional release and a psychological process to overcome big life changes. At least I know that's where it has to start. They tend to break through problems with raw force at the expense of analyzing their true feelings, which works for them because hey, something is always getting done - but it doesn't end up ideally at all, which is what the Ni-type needs. (Or maybe I'm just talking about IEIs) They make stupid decisions by their 'just do it' philosophy, lacking the sense and time of when something should ideally be executed. They try to cover this up by more and more actions, when what they really need to do is sit the fuck down already and pay closer attention to their own emotions and thought processes.
They're rarely honest with their own emotions, but will constantly chastise others if they see them being down. They're unable to admit that they're really upset, and kinda go along until they explode. This EJ-ness upsets IP to no end.
They very much enjoy the emotional release of a preacher attempting to wrinkle out philosophical and moral complexities, but do not think about them further nor are they capable of connecting one abstract concept to the next. So they lack creativity. They're too easily impressed by 'Oprah pop 101 psychology' and shake and shudder at the real thing. Also they can be quite naive if somebody is claiming to 'Help' somebody, when the helper might not have any clue what they're talking about and would only make the situation worse.
I notice I have to CONSTANTLY guide Ni-polrs from going to bad psychologists and therapists and preachers and 'gurus'.
That might not be type related. I don't know. I think that's just an experience/level of confidence thing.Quote:
I do think my ESE husband has a harder time than I do with adapting to changes. In general. Getting his bearings in unfamiliar territory. That's why when we travel, I'm the one who does the planning, the mapping out, the leading, etc. He's a little bit deer-in-the-headlights with that stuff. Which always is surprising to me for some reason but I'm getting used to it. (after 15 years, lol)
Loki, I know that feeling of being distraught among crowds of people and too much stimuli. I'm the same. I've learned mostly to avoid those situations at all costs. I never go shopping when I know there'll be lots of people there. I don't attend things like jazz fests and such because it's too much stimulation that makes me kind of shut down.
My SEI dad has OCD and used to check to be sure the doors were locked, multiple times at night before going to bed. He's not quite so bad now (but then again he's been on Prozac for the past, um, 15 years :o)
Well, let's see. My ESE husband LOVES the Fellowship of the Ring books, the Hobbit, stuff like that. So I dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
I agree that they don't have a good sense for when something ideally should be done. And he DEFINITELY has a hard time admitting that he's upset until suddenly he explodes and I'll be like "where did this come from??" and it's a huge deal. Then he'll be like I don't want to have to explain it to you if you can't figure it out on your own and I'm like :confused:
My husband hates Oprah. I'll say that much for him. He has a high level of disregard for pop psychology. In fact, he's pretty skeptical of this personality stuff. He doesn't want to be labeled and put in a box. :)
I love being put in a box! I just haven't found one that fit me until now. Here's my label: Christian ESTj-Te, E1, Φ000Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
:D:D:D +100Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsandDoves
Maybe I'm Ni-PoLR?Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
wait, are you being sarcastic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
Nope. I've wanted a box for quite a while, but didn't have one 'cause I'm so picky.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
actually this is more along the lines of what what I think of Ni polr types. Again, for some polrs i recognize it by the HA and absence of the polr function. Some very smart ESTjs seem to totally miss the point when confronted with a task that makes them predict by "knowing" so what an Ne person might do is generate possibilities that are likely. Since the Si ego isn't strong in Ne they will seem overly open to possibility, even to an Ne ego. What I've witnessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Director Abbie
this i have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcnew
joy, yes I worked with two ESEs, and have some casual experience with a few LSE.
LOL. My mother is an ESTj.
A couple of weeks ago this went down...
Mum; Oh look there is some pizza out on the side, we already have soup out...so we should have that for dinner, right?
Step dad; urh... (just a wondering, innocent 'urhh' btw ;))
Mum (SCREAMING); There is fucking soup out!!! Okay?! (in an incredibly patronizing way) So-we-are-putting-the-pizza-back-in-the freezer!
LMAO. What the hell? Me and my EIE sister just crack up at how ridiculous she is sometimes!
And she is always up in everyone’s face saying dumbarse things, like having a go at you about nothing, and she just carries on having a go at you even after you have explained yourself. And shes always screaming when there is nothing even wrong. Like at the cat, when its just walking along... :confused:. Just ughh like so dogmatic, and oblivious to everything that doesn't fit in with what she thinks is.
And hypocritical! She is always yelling at us about how we can't be late, so we get in the car and she is in the house for another 10 mins, and she’s all like -well its not my fault-.
One time she hit my sister around the head because my sister said she had 'cleaned the car'. And she screamed -no you haven't you fucking idiot child', and then like slapped her (she had only cleaned the outside and not the inside and she didn't even have to she was just trying to be nice). And then that same sister is all like -Oh you should respect her- and its like well she’s a total crazy, nasty fool who doesn't respect anyone else so why should I respect her? She has never given me anything to respect.
She can't take responsibility for anything, she never says sorry or that she is wrong. Shes just a total bullying, dense, emotionally stunned idiot , who is clueless in relationships.
I do love her, I just can't stand her.
I feel like a lot of what you described is enneagram related - with like unhealthy 2s or 3s. Also I think what you're talking about I see more with ESFjs > ESTjs in terms of that motivational stuff. ESFjs are more the guys who teach and go to those classes at the learning annex to empower you and give you the motivation it takes to be a millionaire lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
Interesting, but I don't think this is typical ESTj behaviour or typical of any type for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinki
Yes Dinki, my sister is married to an ESTj just like that. He actually does everything in there. He also chronically steals womens underwear and wears it throughout the day. He actually stole my grandmothers underwear recently ...
Not thinking of future implications of what you're doing. Too present focused. If the word "later" is used, one would have a tendency to think it means "later today." Bad sense of time, thus plans things out in a schedule ahead of time or else utter PoLR confusion.
Unsure of time measurements, seeks judgment in this area, so if things aren't planned out, tendency to overdo things for a long period of time just to make sure it's done "fully." Poor foresight, sure.
I don't have much experience with this, but these are from definitions I've read, so I'm just trying to find the difference.
I may have written about this here before, but I have an example of Ni-PoLR in action [the girl in question is LSE].
I play a sport that's similar to something like soccer in terms of the physical conditioning involved: lots of speed work with relatvely little endurance for running long and slow. As the season wound down last autumn, an LSE teammate and I decided to keep in shape by taking up running....
Her dad is an avid runner, and he planned to do a half-marathon about eight weeks from when the LSE and I began our running [which I had assumed would be casual, for-the-fun-of-it running]. She decided that we should run it too, and I said that I might [though she took my "maybe" for a "yes" and signed me right up, but that's something else altogether]. I figured, wth, it's a good way to keep in shape... and then I saw the schedule she had made for us to train with: the very first long run was 11 miles! I teased her that it was too much, but out we went at 7am that Saturday morning. We made it through 9 miles running, but had to walk/jog the last two [painful!]. Funny thing was, she couldn't understand why we had such a hard time, since we'd been running for a week already and had worked up to 7 miles or so [no concept of how long it would take to build that type of endurance].
After all that, she still wanted to follow the program she'd made [by chopping off the last 8 weeks of a legit 16-week half-m. training program, lol]. She wanted to go run something like 14 miles the very next week! I lovingly told her she was out of her mind, and we scaled it down a bit... by then I felt committed, so we both ran the half, though [I pulled a muscle during it ):] and I still occasionally tease her about it when she asks me if I want to go for a run....
Anyway, I think that may be a decent example of an Ni-PoLR person underestimating the time necessary to do something, and then not wanting to adjust her set schedule too much because she had a hard time accepting that it would take longer than she initially thought [or wanted it to, at any rate].
Ni POLR IS ABOUT NOT KNOWING WAT TYME OF DAY IT IS, GUYS!
ESTJ CAN"T PREDICT THE FOOCHURE. THEY ARE ALWAYS LATE AND CRASH THEIR CARS BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THE CORRECT TIME TO ACT.
YA SEE, Ni IS ABOUT TIME. TIME TIME TIME.
fuck.this.shit.
Ni polr's get annoyed when you make subjective references that you cannot tangibly perceive.
Si likes contexts that you can sense, demonstrate, and "prove" (prove is an iffy word though)
Ni perceives the abstract and intangible context.
Ni polr's get irked when people make suppositions that cannot be traced back to any specific, concrete setting. "Where the hell did that come from?" "how does this apply here?" "How do you know that?" "That doesn't have anything to do with whats going on." "Show me how you know this".
When Ni-ers sense something unseen unfolding that cannot be "felt"
So Si polrs feel buried in too much information describing an environment that is unreal to them
Ni polrs feel there is not enough information for them to orient themselves and harmonize themselves within their setting.
They are trying to temper and understand their environment. To map out whats going on, the direction that things are moving, what is missing, where resources need to flow (Not Te, this is Si), etc.
Ni provides nothing to them. No good information to work with, its just empty space.
Doesn't have much to do with time at all.
Interesting stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion
I agree w you that Ni doesn't necessarily deal with time, but I think that it can [or that the effects of strength or weakness in Ni can]. Not that it deals with time itself, though; more like, the unfolding of processes and how they will unfold [i.e. how much time they will take]. So it's connections, like you said above; they have a hard time connecting things [ideas, steps in processes, whatever] that are abstractly related [an example being through time].Quote:
Doesn't have much to do with time at all.
I hope that makes sense typed out here....
yeah, Ni is about abstract processes, thats not too bad.
But Si is about concrete processes
So both deal with "time", but as its usually described in mainstream socionics Si has more to do with time.
Especially when you speak of time in such a tangible, measured, and concrete way.
Like, a video of a forest growing over hundreds of years, is more Si like. Its a forest. It has tangible traits, it is "real" its there to be sensed. The unfolding of time in this sense is not very abstract, now is it?
I agree with you, AA.
Sometimes I'll say something that I "just know" like something I have an awareness of and I can't exactly pinpoint why, and my husband (ESE) will say "you don't know that! You just made that up." and I'll just smile.... :D It amuses me.
yeah exactly. Its more about a sudden catalyzed awareness of some "ripple".
For an Ni polr to understand you you need to relate the ripple to something that is demonstrable. You cant just pull things out of your ass, "How can I see this myself? How can I touch this?"
but it's fun. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion
then there's my sle friend who ASKS me for it (which is new to me). once we were at a repair shop and he wanted my opinion about the guy (whom I had just met) so I gave him my gut feeling and I told him I didn't have much to base it on and he said that gut feelings were sometimes the best and I was like :shock: :D :love:
I'm not sure how well this relates, but I heard this LSE rant about politicians. He basically said that he wouldn't want someone he elected into the house of representatives to go on to the senate or even to the presidency because "if I vote you into the house, I want you to stay there and do your job." I kinda got the feeling he didn't value political ambitions, or any kind of ambitions for that matter.
Here's a question: do you feel like you can't distinguish between important and unimportant things? Do you have trouble prioritizing? What IM would that be related to?
oops, I just answered my own question about prioritizing, so forget I asked that.
hmm thats too general.
Im sure all types can distinguish between "important" and "unimportant" things
could be... I think Ni polr might snap in that way, "Cool it, get back down to earth, what are you talkign about?"
bit vague, sorry.
hah well malia disagrees.
Yeah actually that might not be Ni polr... I mean if someone snapped at me like that I'd get annoyed.
Maybe a male ESTj would do that out of anxiety
yeah not at all like my ESE mom eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by MaliaFee