Tori Amos

What you people think? What's her type? I think it's clear to everyone she is an ethical type, based on her songs and performances, the way she communicates but I can't decide if she's an SF or an NF. She seems to be an extrovert also and she seems to belong to the Extraverted with ethics (passionate) group of DarkAngelFireWolf69's communication skills. So if this is true what I surmised up to now, the types that fit are ESFj, ESFp, ENFj, ENFp.
What would be most likely for her?

I've posted here a random picture, but I don't know if it's relevant.
If you'd like to watch some videos with her


http://i.imgur.com/4OCgsRG.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTzktkXS2_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nsw9lY7O1k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSvAnaKJRxg

Amos = Too creepy to type

She's definitely an ISFp... judging by the music that she produces...

I added a poll, so let's see what's it gonna be, hihi

http://www.nndb.com/people/756/000025681/tori-amos.jpg


I found something interesting here in her biography
"The strict, uninspired curriculum proved completely at odds with her intuitive form of playing, and she was expelled from the school by the time she was 10.

Undeterred in her conviction that music was her calling, she began to perform her songs in clubs as a teenager; in 1984 she moved to Los Angeles and formed her first band Y Kant Tori Read"

Does this mean she's an N, in the socionics sense?


http://www.musicolympus.com/toriamos...-biography.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sycophant

Amos = Too creepy to type

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Oh, and you're not creepy?? Lol =)

I've read somewhere that she has trouble reading musical notes, but she is able to play songs simply after hearing them once. So she is probably an S. Very S, actually, most of her songs are about her personal emotional experiences, that's very S. I think she's definitely an Fp. I'm not sure if she's an E or an I, I don't know much about her personally. Though I guess she is more likely an E, so her type would be ESFp.

IEI?

Could Tori Amos be ESE?

I know that most people will say no, because of her lyrics or something, but I wrote a few songs that people said were SO much like her music before I ever even heard her stuff (that was over 10 years ago and I honestly had no idea what she did or was like), and I also get told I look like her quite a bit, in real life, including gestures and stuff (a really obsessed INFp Tori fan told me this after she'd watched her interviews and this was when I was a teenager - she told me to listen to her music but I didn't until a few years later).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ljHOSqc4A

If you don't agree, I won't argue. I actually just think it's interesting. If we're not the same type, we have some weird resemblance (maybe it's the Scottish and Native American roots).

If she is ESE, I think she'd be my subtype, Si.

Any thoughts on her type or whether I am right? I'm trying to learn after all. :D

I'm inclined to agree with the Ni-INFp typing of her.

Tori Amos: Ni-INFp (Harmonizing subtype) [IEI-Si] (INFp-ISTp)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3LnqtHDfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD4fvblhhQI


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y-r-PZcSlo...ri_amos_21.jpg

http://img1.jurko.net/wall/paper/wallpaper_15998.jpg


http://www.buzzinemusic.com/intervie...o-sin-07312009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuSjoGGAvWY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJHVNABJYI4

ixfx bump

infp could be alright. I've also thought infj at times, but hey who knows. In the last pic she kind of reminds me of Agarina, maybe?

My ex-boyfriend thought she VI'd ESI, yet I can't seriously argue with IEI... I was first introduced to this typing of her circa August, 2009 on the socionics.com forum, and I gradually came to agree with it. Her music is pretty strong in Fe combined with a relatively strong Si-role based on things I've read (about her personally). I think Tori Amos and Trent Reznor are both Ni-INFp (Harmonizing subtype) [they both write about their 'feelings' and are comfortable expressing Fe and Se in their songs] . . . Tori Amos might be INFp-ISTp (and maybe sp/sx or so/sx per enneagram type stackings) and Trent Reznor might be INFp-INTp (and either sx/sp or sp/sx). Courtney Love might be ESTp-ESFp, ESTp-ENFj, or ESTp-ESFj sx/sp or sx/so:

http://ocean-moonshine.net/e14285736...position=80:80

Here's a link about the past 'relationship'/'friendship' between Trent Reznor and Tori Amos:

http://www.hereinmyhead.com/musicians/reznor.html

'The rumor is that Tori and Trent had an actual relationship beyond friendship, which is why there is such intense feelings displayed when either one comes up for the other person. Another rumor is that Tori's song She's Your Cocaine is the "Ballad of Trent and Courtney Love". Finally, Trent's song Starfuckers Inc. has been thought to be related to Tori soley because she uses the word "starfucker" in her song Professional Widow. However, others have noted that Trent's Starfuckers Inc. is actually about Marilyn Manson [and Courtney Love, etc.], and not at all about Tori. Tori has performed Nine Inch Nail's Hurt several times as bridges and intros to her songs, Caught A Lite Sneeze, Precious Things, Bells For Her, and Blood Roses during live concerts over the years. While it is obvious that something happened to the friendship between Tori and Trent, it seems best to assume that we don't really know much at all.'

'The interviewer asks Trent about musicians whom he considers friends: "Tori would be another example. She called me to do this vocal track. It wasn't that big a deal. Her first album was permanently in my car's CD changer. It really struck me as well written, in a similar vein to what I was doing--from a different point of view, but the same kind of addicting, pouring out, gushing, baring, naked kind of song. Other people put their fingers in the pie, and they kind of messed up a friendship. We're not that close now. Some malicious meddling on the part of Courtney Love. But I still feel the same feelings for Tori."-- Trent Reznor; Spin Magazine, 1996'



'T[ori]: When I was writing the song, the song said "I think Trent Reznor would be really good to sing on me." So I made it happen, and I met him. I flew into Los Angeles and I went up to the Sharon Tate house where he was staying. It's a very spooky house, not in the way it looks but just because you know what it is.
I[nterviewer]: You told me a story about cooking chicken for him in the Tate house which gave you an indication that maybe things were kinetically strange there.
T[ori]: I can make this chicken. Whatever he tells you, ever, the truth is I make really good chicken. It's oven fried and I've been making it since I was a little kid. It's awesome how it dribbles down your chin and the butter -- yummy. I was worried about his health because he's not eating a lot, it doesn't seem like he is, and I just said "Let me make some chicken. I'd feel really good if I could do that." And so he said "Yeah, come on up and make it. [But] I don't believe you're really as good [at it] as you say you are." And I said "No, I make good chicken, Trent." And so I brought all the ingredients and I swear to you for the life of me, I couldn't make this chicken. HORRIBLE. It's not like I'd been proven wrong. But anything that is cooked there, my chicken being the only experience I had, of course....Nothing bakes. So I don't know what to tell you, but I think it's a very weird place because -- I promise you, I know how to make this chicken!-- Tori; WHFS Press, Spring 94'

"I: Exactly. But one of your friends, Trent Reznor. I was reading something about you cooking dinner for him over at that scary house.
T[ori]: Well, look, he's so anorexic sometimes. I just look at him and go, baby, you need my cooking honey. And he was very open to the idea because, you know, I don't think he gets much nurturing, that guy. There's just not a lot of nurturing going on. Anyway, so I went over there and I brought all my little supplies because they only have Coca-cola in the fridge.
I: In case you don't know, this is the house where Sheryl Tate was...
I2: Sharon Tate.
T[ori]: Yeah. That house.
I: Yeah. That's a spooky to me.
T: It's torn down now.
I2: I want to hear what you cooked, this is interesting.
T[ori]: Well I was gonna make him baked chicken because like, look, I'm from the South, I know how to make chicken, I've been making it since I was 10 years old, with my Nanny, my Grandmother in the kitchen, where it's dripping down your chin, and that whole buttery thing, right? Well I'm making it, and _nothing's happening_. I mean its just, yes it's cooking right, the oven's cooking, I've made it the same time, the same way that I've made it for 20 years. And it's _not working_. I mean, you know how globs of flour were collecting on the chicken. And, it just wasn't working, nothing was working, and he's standing there with his arms folded thinking he's like, I'm not applying to be your wife or anything. I mean this isn't what's happening anyway. So why are you not giving me a chance? This is wrong. This is your house. And I called my mother on the phone, things got so bad, and I said, Mom, what's wrong, I can't make this chicken for this guy, and she goes, well you know honey, I heard the Folger's coffee heiress was also in that house, and she died that night, and I think there's a curse on anything that has to do with culinary things. And I'm like, thanks, Mom.
-- Tori; 99X Radio Interview, Aug 5, 1994"


'Way back in 1994, when the only men she was dissecting were her father and God, Amos told Spin, "I love the screaming male aggression of [Trent Reznor's] music, because I'm not in touch with that part of myself so much. I think there ought to be a raging-male cruise line we could take, go to seven islands and just watch these guys act out."-- Tori; Village Voice, Oct 3-9, 2001'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ux7GMOc6k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwZbIENfzAA

Seems ethical. Don't know anything about her not Trent, but seeing this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prDoGmY5kj8&feature=related

I would be inclined to say, they're both beta, tentatively :)

I've alvvays liked the sensitivity in her songs. I think she's INFj or INFp.

INFp. If not INFp, then INFj (but no...).

I think she was cutter with her original nose, even if it was thicker.

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Originally Posted by VixenDogFox

Could Tori Amos be ESE?

I know that most people will say no, because of her lyrics or something, but I wrote a few songs that people said were SO much like her music before I ever even heard her stuff (that was over 10 years ago and I honestly had no idea what she did or was like), and I also get told I look like her quite a bit, in real life, including gestures and stuff (a really obsessed INFp Tori fan told me this after she'd watched her interviews and this was when I was a teenager - she told me to listen to her music but I didn't until a few years later).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ljHOSqc4A

If you don't agree, I won't argue. I actually just think it's interesting. If we're not the same type, we have some weird resemblance (maybe it's the Scottish and Native American roots).

If she is ESE, I think she'd be my subtype, Si.

Any thoughts on her type or whether I am right? I'm trying to learn after all. :D

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She looks a bit like Shania Twain (expression-wise), she could be ESE. But I also see some Beta NF or IEE. She's obviously an F type.

I voted for SLE (ESTp). If Silke (siuntal) votes, it'll probably be for IEI, since most of her typings (99%?) are the same as Socionix (Ashton/mfckr et al.) . . . . Then again, even in circa August 2009, Marie84 typed Tori Amos as IEI on the Socionics.com forum.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qTtaQ8QnDs

“Hello Mr. Zebra, can I have your sweater? / 'Cause it's cold, cold, cold in my hole, hole, hole / Ratatouille Strychnine, sometimes she's a friend of mine/With a gigantic whirlpool that will blow your mind / Hello Mr. Zebra, ran into some confusion with a Mrs. Crocodile-dile-dile / Furry muscles marching on, she thinks she's Kaiser Wilhelm / Or a civilized syllabub to blow your mind / Figure it out, she, she's a good time fella / She got a little fund to fight for Moneypenny's rights / Figure it out, she, she is a good time fella / ‘Too bad the burial was premature,’ she said and smiled”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weWtRqoSUOI

“ . . . . Right on time/You get closer and closer / Call my name / There's no way in / Use that fame: Rent your wife and kid today / And maybe she will / I said maybe [Love] will / Caught a lite sneeze / Dreamed a little dream / Made my own pretty hate machine . . . . I need a big loan from the girl zone / I need a big loan from [the Delta] zone . . . .”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEStUwZE9Q8

‘ . . . . “Perfect,” he laughed, ’cause your other half has got himself a Devil's access — “Welcome to England,” he said, "Welcome to my world” . . . . Who can stay strong when they only give us lies to lean on? / When your heart explodes, is it deathly cold? . . . . There is a magic world parallel / So leave your daily [pornographic prison] hell [the16types.info] — “Welcome to [Poland],” he said, “Welcome to my world...” / It's not a question if I can fight by your side and withstand anything . . . .”

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Originally Posted by Allegra

I think it really is tasteless to mention to me these intimate aspects of your sex life. These things are supposed to be intimate and not talked about so freely. I find it quite strange you send to me a link to an almost pornographic site. It is crude and it lacks the elegance human relationships should have. These are intimate aspects you should only browse with your boyfriend.

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Originally Posted by Absurd

Agree with that wholeheartedly but I'm curious, agape, did you send her a link to 16types.info?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8OX9AVwm7E

“Way to go Mr. Microphone / Show us all what you don't know / Centuries, secret [socionics] societies / He's our commander still / Space Dog . . . . Deck the halls I’m young again / I'm you again / Racing turtles / The grapefruit is winning / Seems I keep getting this story twisted / So where's Neil when you need him? / Deck the halls it's you again / It's you again / Somewhere someone must know the ending / Is she still pissing in the river now? / Heard she'd gone/Moved into a trailer park / (So sure we were on something / Your feet are finally on the ground) / So sure those girls [and (homosexual/bisexual/heterosexual) thieves and bottomfeeders] now are in the Navy / Those bombs—our friends—can't even hurt you now / And hold those tears ‘cause they're still on your side / Don't hear the dogs barking / Don't say you know we've gone[,HERO]/Andromeda stood with those girls [and homosexual/bisexual/heterosexual street urchins and bums] before / The hair in pairs, it just got nasty / And now those girls [and homosexuals/bisexuals/heterosexuals] are [all] gone . . .”


I once had a dream in which Tori Amos might have said, "Read The Patiences of Adulthood; do not be thwarted by their debut," or "Read the patiences of adulthood; do not be thwarted by their debut." Of course "patiences" doesn't really make sense, but I think that's what I dreamt.

She was so beautiful and had the best crooked teeth, I wish she hadn't made herself a plastic replica of the expected average symmetrical doll.

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Originally Posted by GEM

She was so beautiful and had the best crooked teeth, I wish she hadn't made herself a plastic replica of the expected average symmetrical doll.

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Agreed. I also think that her music has gone downhill since To Venus and Back (my favorite is Boys for Pele), enough that a lot of it embarrasses me to hear it. Her daughter ate her faeries...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSGMjB3HbGM

IEI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycbuy6Ww_Qs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3HAfHukEM

http://www.dogster.com/wp-content/up...ing-pig-02.jpg

So my father said to me, 'Tori Ellen, I can't believe you wrote this song about me.' I said, 'I write everything about you, what are you surprised about?' He said, 'I'm really hurt by this one.' I said, 'Well which one is it?' He said, 'Well, you called me Satan.' I said, 'No! I was doing drugs with a South American shaman, and I really did visit the devil and, well, I had a journey.' He said, 'Oh, praise Jesus!'"

I was learned she is IEI but ESI anyone?

Just looking at her pics and knowing nothing else about her, I think she looks good, as in good enough to want to know her better. Maybe that means ESI.

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Just looking at her pics and knowing nothing else about her, I think she looks good, as in good enough to want to know her better. Maybe that means ESI.

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It does not mean that.

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Originally Posted by lungs

It does not mean that.

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https://31.media.tumblr.com/8a60c05a...xms3o6_500.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam Strange

Just looking at her pics and knowing nothing else about her, I think she looks good, as in good enough to want to know her better. Maybe that means ESI.

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Maybe stop thinking ESI for every female - you think - looks good?

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Originally Posted by Persephone

Maybe stop thinking ESI for every female - you think - looks good?

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ESI is the new black.

Sx/Sp paragon, that was my first thought, and it manifested as I watched other interviews. Sociotype... IEI-Ni. Enneagram: 4w3 for sure.

I think she's a fairly obvious IEI... A lot of Ni in her songs. Some really insane Ni that seems to make little to no sense:

Deck the halls I"m young again
I'm you again
Racing turtles
The grapefruit is winning
Seems I keep getting this story twisted
So where's Neil when you need him
Deck the halls it's you again
It's you again
Somewhere someone must know the ending
Is she still pissing in the river
Now heard she'd gone
Moved into a trailer park

So sure we were on something
Your feet are finally on the ground
He said so sure
We were on something
Your feet are just on the ground girl

These are rather Ni and Fe, and probably some of my most favorite... poetry, ever:

"As violins fill with water
Screams from the bluebells
Can't make them go away"

"And in the mist
There she rides
And castles are burning in my heart
And as I twist I hold tight
And I ride to work every morning
Wondering why"

I was initially against 4 for her because intuitively it's not the impression I get when looking at pictures of her. But then I looked at her lyrics, and I could see 4. Well because it would either have to be 9 or 4 and her lyrics speak against core 9, but I definitely think she has a secondary 9 fix (497). And I think she's sp/so. because she seems well accustomed to the world and society for a four.

IEI e4 sx last imo

IEI-Ni 4w3 and I want to say sx/sp

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Originally Posted by yeves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSGMjB3HbGM

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:crispy:

Why does she have 3 SLE votes? lol.

I agree on IEI. I have yet to read new book, Resistance, not sure if I will or not, but I hear it is pretty politically charged as are more of her lyrics than one may realize

OK this body handling while playing two pianos is a giveaway of intuitive type, I think. Not smooth. IEI but could be EIE because of angularity. :popcorn: Just my impression so do not count on it. The woman in the film mb SEI - she is smooth all around.

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Originally Posted by COVID 007

OK this body handling while playing two pianos is a giveaway of intuitive type, I think. Not smooth. IEI confirmed. :popcorn: Just my impression so do not count on it. The woman in the film mb SEI - she is smooth all around.

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lol, made me laugh. I was thinking about this last night actually, and I think higher ethics can make for graceful dancing, as I've seen many examples of amazing NF dancers, but maybe I am biased... just in regard to the smooth vs not smooth thing, but maybe I'm not paying attention to detail enough. Maybe it is that sensors would be more inclined to better body control, but not necessarily grace

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Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie

lol, made me laugh. I was thinking about this last night actually, and I think higher ethics can make for graceful dancing, as I've seen many examples of amazing NF dancers, but maybe I am biased... just in regard to the smooth vs not smooth thing, but maybe I'm not paying attention to detail enough. Maybe it is that sensors would be more inclined to better body control, but not necessarily grace

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I have started to pay more attention to it once a doctor wrote down words "lanky essence" about me and DarkAngelFireWolf69's VI from the book.

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Originally Posted by COVID 007

I have started to pay more attention to it once a doctor wrote down words "lanky essence" about me and DarkAngelFireWolf69's VI from the book.

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Lol, some alpha NT do have that lanky essence, certainly not all ;p After reading more descriptions lately also, I am sad to say I don’t find DarkAngelFireWolf69’s to be the best :/ At least not pertaining to all of the types, I imagine he has down alpha NT pretty well though

Not IEI. Either EIE, alpha SF or IEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkoxPSo8tAc

Not sure if this is helpful, just ran into this as she mentions how she thinks Fiona Apple is a great artist (and she's said to be picky in regards feeling that way about other more modern artists)

Fiona Apple is EII - don't let the fact that both of them are singer-songwriters fool you ;)

Anyway - I thought I might explain myself why I think she's not IEI. Purely coming from VI, she lacks that ethereal IEI look - to me, she looks much more like an ExE. What's more, she seems to be really working her way throughout her own experiences of pain, trauma, sadness and idleness. I find her much too 'scattered' to be that sweet INFp that everyone loves. If it helps - and I know some people don't like to type others through their work - her lyrics are mostly about personal experiences and stories, and a lot of the recurring themes revolve around personal transformation and catharsis. IEIs tend to write more about time itself, her focus is mainly on the tragedy of life. ExE from me.

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Originally Posted by littleblackcloud

Fiona Apple is EII - don't let the fact that both of them are singer-songwriters fool you ;)

Anyway - I thought I might explain myself why I think she's not IEI. Purely coming from VI, she lacks that ethereal IEI look - to me, she looks much more like an ExE. What's more, she seems to be really working her way throughout her own experiences of pain, trauma, sadness and idleness. I find her much too 'scattered' to be that sweet INFp that everyone loves. If it helps - and I know some people don't like to type others through their work - her lyrics are mostly about personal experiences and stories, and a lot of the recurring themes revolve around personal transformation and catharsis. IEIs tend to write more about time itself, her focus is mainly on the tragedy of life. ExE from me.

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I like how you think outside the box. It's funny because I relate to so much of Fiona Apple lyrically. At one point watching her in an interview also, I could have swore she was delta NF, despite all the supposed Fe demonstration (so I actually was like...could she actually be IEE???). I also agree that not all rational types and EII are super stable/completely introverted etc. as people like to imply. I considered EIE for Fiona too due to potential Si PoLr with all her health issues. There are so many shades to all of the typings and a plethora of historical information backing why someone's type may seem different than it's more classical description. Very cool. From what I know she seems IEI to me, but I don't know a lot.

IEI

I think she's a sensor, probably Se base. I don't see any intuition in her except that her lyrics try to be deep but they aren't really

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Originally Posted by Megatrop

I think she's a sensor, probably Se base. I don't see any intuition in her except that her lyrics try to be deep but they aren't really

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Yes because intuitives never try to sound deeper than they are lol.

I think she's an SEI but I don't really have a reason why she couldn't be IEI. She just seems more SEI.

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Originally Posted by Poptart

Yes because intuitives never try to sound deeper than they are lol.

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Dunno. Ne peeps drill through your skull. At least I'm hopeless IRL. :shifty: Some assume so but then I'm like.. " d1z waz d33p?". I think I have acquired a skill to scare people with my ramblings. :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poptart

Yes because intuitives never try to sound deeper than they are lol.

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Intuitives don't need to try, our depth is enough suffering, and true depth is usually not appreciated
Those who try to overdisplay it are probably not intuitives themselves

But I as Ne base have tried to mimick Ni base to impress a Se lead today, and it was successful, she was impressed and saved what I said cause she said it was intriguing
It was pretty random to be honest, and it strikes me as funny how clueless Se base types are to any representation of reasoning beyond immediate experience

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megatrop

Intuitives don't need to try, our depth is enough suffering, and true depth is usually not appreciated

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Give me a break.

Quote:

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I don't see any intuition in her except that her lyrics try to be deep but they aren't really

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Perhaps you simply do not appreciate the depth of her suffering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poptart

Perhaps you simply do not appreciate the depth of her suffering.

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Actually I like her songs a lot, I think she is deep in her own way, but not in an intuitive sense

Look at this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWaRnJqkcC4

Pretty cute isn't it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megatrop

Actually I like her songs a lot, I think she is deep in her own way, but not in an intuitive sense

Look at this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWaRnJqkcC4

Pretty cute isn't it

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Oh I’m not objecting to her type. I just think you should think deeper about what you’re implying here.

Sf. I personally find her rather pretentious & annoying/not my cuppa tbh although yeah stereotypically I think she has a huge GLBT following. She thought saying that gay men were 'ears with feet' was the biggest compliment ever so she's kind of weird and full of herself. If she was trying to say that gay men tend to be good listeners, then why not just say that bluntly instead of trying to be this hippie artist or something? lol

To be fair, at the time - before the big explosion of gay rights.... calling us 'ears with feet' probably felt like you were Mother Teresa of gays considering some of the nasty psychological abuse gays went through. I mean it is quite sad how old gays felt like Judy Garland was defending us in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wauyHFqW0d8. But at the time- that *did* feel like love and support. LoL.

Her style and tone of music is clearly serious over Merry to me as well- it is really heavy on the Fi, I feel like I'm being dunked in Fi like an apple being coated with Fi caramel. I think she's probably gamma SF either SEE or ESI. It's too poetic try-hard which I associate with Gamma SF writing.

I like Aimee Mann better because I can actually understand her lyrics better or something and they aren't so annoyingly cryptic or super Fi-meaningful only to her. I mean they can still mean a lot to her, but Aimee is trying to make them more accessible to a wider variety of people so they can understand what she means better. It's more Fe and populist I think.

okay I'm tired and need sleep. I'm sorry if I sound too harsh or mean to her or whatever. I just never really 'got her.' I like Aimee Mann, Fefe Dobson and uhhh Sheryl Crow/Shania Twain lol.