What's your opinion?

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Phaederus, but I'm still going with IEE. There's just a level of decisiveness I get from Kelly Jo that EIEs typically don't have. Also her description of being unaware of her own emotions, but having a strong desire to "help" others emotionally sounds very :Fi: to me.

I don't think that the emphasis on the "individual" over the "social" consciousness is necessarily a Beta thing either, although it sounds like :Ni: at first glance. The experimental nature of her approach to spirituality sounds more like :Ne::Fi: to me, as she looks for fundamental value in a variety of places.

What I really want to emphasize is that a "rich inner experience" is not necessarily a Beta :Ni: thing. People of every type can be spiritual, and the specific kind of spirituality Kelly Jo seems focused on is unlocking people's spiritual potential, rather than motivating people to a spiritual cause. This, to me, strongly suggests IEE > EIE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Phaedrus,

I hear what you're saying about some irrationals being black and white thinkers. But, I'm not totally convinced.

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That's good. As long as you are not totally convinced that you are necessarily a rational type just because you think the way you do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

I am physically very strong and have prided myself on that fact since I was little. But, I believe I am because I am emotionally weak and impulsive. I had a mom that didn't "help" me with my emotional outbursts and vowed from the time I was little to figure out how people tick on all levels so I could help them on that emotional level.

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Does that sound like a :Fe: leading type to anyone? Not to me anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Since I'm not good with emotions myself, I went into metaphysical things to do it, ie: chakra healing, spiritual healing, psychic regression and angel therapy and also studied human development and psychology, anything I could get my hands on, Si things, Ni things, Se things when necessary, Ne things...

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The things you mention here are just the kind of stuff that tend to appeal most to NF types. And among the NF types it is the ENFp that is really into it more than the other types. That is of course no proof in itself that you must be an ENFp, but we can safely say that all of it is very typically ENFp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

I think my natural inclination is Se first but I know how it feels to be forced to do and be what you don't want to and so I push that down and draw from other areas of knowledge. People who force their children to do things that they are not interested in piss me off, especially if they do it physically. In the moments I am not diligently aware, I do it and hate it. I go from one extreme to the other sometimes.

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That is a slight indication of irrationality (p-type) but not a proof of anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

I am much more effective (in all areas of my life) when I've been meditating more regularly and coming from a centered place within.

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That is probably true of most people, but if you often feel the need to be "in the right mood" in order to do things, if you postpone things you know that you ought to do, if you feel that it is difficult for you to force yourself to do things that need to be done, etc., then that is also an indication of irrationality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

When I've worked with others in manifesting their desires, I help them with both the theory of doing it and then getting them to do it. I am objective in my observations of what's going on with them and then I let them decide which direction feels right to them. I'm not good at giving practical advice with any "do this and then do this and then do this" sort of thing. I'm better at seeing the meaning behind their situation and then encouraging them to take action that will ultimately help them get what they want.

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Perfectly in line with the ENFp hypothesis, even though not only ENFps can say things like that.

My first impression was EIE.

But, I don't think the opinion of a newbie will have any relevancy.

Mr. Despair,

First, I don't care if you're a newbie or been studying socionics for years. One over the other doesn't make someone "get it" or "know more." If one opinion makes more sense than the other, I go with the one that makes more sense, whoever it came from.

Love,
Kelly Jo

Next,

If IEEs are more decisive over EIEs than that's me. Even though I've been going around on this for many months, I'm actually one of the most decisive people I know. In the big picture things in life, I decided as a child what was important to me and for the most part, I am living them. On a daily basis, however, I wait until the last minute depending on what's going on with my kids before I make a decision. But when I do, I do. Remember, I can't stand wishy washy.

I also take my responsibilities seriously. I take on a lot of new ones over the course of time and always uphold my end of the bargain. Do what you say you're going to do.... but then....like the J/P article, I will eventually "let people down." This takes a lot longer than the article implies or I've seen with other people I know, a lot longer.

Right now, I'm toying with SLE with an overcompensation of Ne and Fi. A big thing for me has always been respect and demanding it. Yes, a contradiction in terms but it's how it's been for me. I can be very controlling over allowing my kids' potential to shine. Kinda weird, but it's how it is...

Wanting to feel strong, powerful, in control and mostly being that way is what my hubby was attracted to in me. He called me "John Wayne in a skirt." I see SLE people and they seem just a bit too closeminded though....

Still open....

Love,
Kelly Jo

can you describe your ideal partner? or what you absolutely positively could not deal with?

If you have the ability to make and post a short video of yourself in a natural environment, it might help us get a clearer idea. I'm not getting SLE at all, as you seem more conceptually oriented.

Riddy,

When I said that I'm not good with my emotions, I didn't mean I'm unaware of them. I'm all too aware of them. I'm not good at controlling them. In a way, they DO run the show but without my control. If that makes sense. And I do like to be the one running the show, not some weak emotions...Being so emotional feels weak and I don't like feeling weak, so, I workout, act tough, etc...to be "strong."

Love,
Kelly Jo

1) Re: newbie's typing accuracy:

In my experience, studying socionics for a couple of years makes quite a difference re: typing accuracy... That said, I've seen "newbies" introduce themselves on the forum and type fairly accurately; however, they've usually done a considerable amount of homework beforehand.

Essentially, I've found that socionics' typing is a skill like many others, which develops with continual application... For example, dbmmama, if you stick with socionics for awhile, your typings (self and other) may become so accurate that you'll find through your knowledge, you're able to understand/positively influence a lot of the relationships in your life and other ppl's lives... This can be really awesome.

2) dbmmama's type

Given what you've written Kelly Jo, I agree with Phaedrus' reasoning in this thread. Furthermore, as an ENFp, I identify with A LOT of what you're written... The ENFx seems almost a given, (although INFp-Ni could still work, as someone pointed out.) Given what you've written, it seems that your lead function is extroverted. Also, your values indicate an NF temperment. That last j or p is the hardest thing to judge... and frankly, it's very difficult to discern over the internet, i.e. without interaction or a visual.

Welcome aboard! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

Why then are socionics tests built out of dichotomies? (oh yeah..and eh, lbnl ricks site?)

I think this sort of thing is really interesting, as I didn't get that sort of vibe, also, what you are describing..inner calm and such, sounds a bit like Si to me. Ni is more about spotting patterns and predictions.

PS Im not looking to get into a big debate but i'd be interested if you could respond so that I can have a read of it, thanks.

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I can count the number of good articles that rick's site has on one hand

the inner calm had a more spiritual feel, which is more Ni. Ni is NOT about patterns and predictions...anyone can spot patters, predictions is iffy. If she was Si, she would be interested in a internal physical harmony with her environment, and I am DEFINITELY not getting that vibe.

how can you guys say delta? compare her to tereg, who in contrast, is more emotionally subdued and more mellow...yes, mellow is the keyword for deltas...Kelly Jo is a beta fighter...she is exactly like my Ni-ENFj english teacher, I know exactly what she means when she talks about emotions being out of control because of how aware she is of them and all that....BETA

Implied,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by implied

can you describe your ideal partner? or what you absolutely positively could not deal with?

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First, I hope I'm using this quote feature right...

Next, my hubby is damn close. We fell in love very quickly and have been married and still in love after 17 years. He is a jokester, sarcastic, goofy, more practical than I, he is "nicer" than me and hates conflict (I am the conflicter, head on confronter), we are both pigs and value our family and raising our children with individual respect and straightforwardness, he is more of an "out of the box thinker" than me, while I see the symbolic meaning in people's behaviors, which he cares less about. He is not afraid of looking stupid at all, but I am. So, he pushes me to do some things I wouldn't otherwise. He is also very unpolitically incorrect. He tends to put his foot in his mouth often because he just says what he thinks without thinking about it or understanding how it will sound as it comes out to that particular person.

Ideally, I would like him to be a little "rougher." But he shows signs of it when I push him in that direction. He is also VERY go with the flow.

I couldn't stand to be with anyone who was not go with the flow because I am very controlling, I need someone who is easy going enough to do what I say we're going to do and be ok and happy with that. Which includes the unconventional way I do my parenting.

Love,
Kelly Jo

dbmmama, what result do you get on Ganin's Turbo test: http://www.socionics.com/sta/sta_turbo.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

while I see the symbolic meaning in people's behaviors

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this would be called...Ni paired with Fe

Kelly, could you give a more cognitive description? How do you think? behaviors are essentially meaningless (which most people tend to forget) for typing; motivations and thought processes are what matter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strrrng

the inner calm had a more spiritual feel, which is more Ni. Ni is NOT about patterns and predictions...anyone can spot patters, predictions is iffy. If she was Si, she would be interested in a internal physical harmony with her environment, and I am DEFINITELY not getting that vibe.

how can you guys say delta? compare her to tereg, who in contrast, is more emotionally subdued and more mellow...yes, mellow is the keyword for deltas...Kelly Jo is a beta fighter...she is exactly like my Ni-ENFj english teacher, I know exactly what she means when she talks about emotions being out of control because of how aware she is of them and all that....BETA

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This description is feeling the most like me. I am DEFINITELY not about internal physical harmony. I have a HARD, very hard time noticing those things about myself. I do some Si things in my parenting NOT for Si reasons but for Ni reasons and I do them in an Se way.

Mellow, oh no! high strung is more like it!

Still open....
Love,
Kelly Jo

ps. get back with ya later on the last two posts that came through...heading out with the kids for a bit. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strrrng

I can count the number of good articles that rick's site has on one hand

the inner calm had a more spiritual feel, which is more Ni. Ni is NOT about patterns and predictions...anyone can spot patters, predictions is iffy. If she was Si, she would be interested in a internal physical harmony with her environment, and I am DEFINITELY not getting that vibe.

how can you guys say delta? compare her to tereg, who in contrast, is more emotionally subdued and more mellow...yes, mellow is the keyword for deltas...Kelly Jo is a beta fighter...she is exactly like my Ni-ENFj english teacher, I know exactly what she means when she talks about emotions being out of control because of how aware she is of them and all that....BETA

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spiritual feel, which is more Ni....If she was Si, she would be interested in a internal physical harmony

Internal physical harmony..have a think about it..to feel harmony internally, it must come from the mind as well as the body.

You will find also many INTp's who disagree with being spiritual, but if Ni is not a function involved in patterns and predictions, why is it so common to have ENTj's and INTp's working the stockmarket.

Kelly Jo is a beta fighter

I think you are misenterpreting what she is about

how can you guys say delta?

I do not like to type by quadra, but she appears to have little interest in heirarchy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

This description is feeling the most like me. I am DEFINITELY not about internal physical harmony. I have a HARD, very hard time noticing those things about myself. I do some Si things in my parenting NOT for Si reasons but for Ni reasons and I do them in an Se way.

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well, she just ruled out Si, didn't she?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

Internal physical harmony..have a think about it..to feel harmony internally, it must come from the mind as well as the body.

You will find also many INTp's who disagree with being spiritual, but if Ni is not a function involved in patterns and predictions, why is it so common to have ENTj's and INTp's working the stockmarket. stereotype

I think you are misenterpreting what she is about [b]that's why she's agreed with everything I've said?

I do not like to type by quadra, but she appears to have little interest in heirarchy. beta isn't about "hierarchy"...that's just a general manifestation that is far less significant than other things

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err, other things.

poor descriptions, but if you can pick one that sounds more like you, it could be helpful -

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Infantile

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Victim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strrrng

well, she just ruled out Si, didn't she?

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Maybe Si seeking.

PS Re ENTj/INTp working in stockmarket - working in business. That isn't a stereotype, and if it is - its because its true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

Maybe Si seeking.

PS Re ENTj/INTp That isn't a stereotype, and if it is - its because its true.

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you shouldn't type based on it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strrrng

you shouldn't type based on it

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I don't, was simply answering your question. Don't want to get sidetracked.

Overall I agree with Phaedrus, his reasoning on the subject is the same as mine.

You can pm me if you want to discuss further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phaedrus

dbmmama, what result do you get on Ganin's Turbo test: http://www.socionics.com/sta/sta_turbo.html

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I've taken that one too many times already to be accurate. I'll do it again now. I've also taken his longer one when I first found socionics and came out even between, yes, ENFj and ENFp.

Ok, still couldn't pick between the J and P, there are too many on each side that I'm like.

Love,
Kelly Jo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

I've taken that one too many times already to be accurate. I'll do it again now. I've also taken his longer one when I first found socionics and came out even between, yes, ENFj and ENFp.

Ok, still couldn't pick between the J and P, there are too many on each side that I'm like.

Love,
Kelly Jo

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Kelly, don't let yourself get deluded. These people are like viruses...first they send you to rick's site, then to ganin's test...fuck all that...fuck what you've read about P and J...P's are not impulsive, spontaneous, lazy people who can't perform in routine and J's are rigid, structured people who need everything in black-and-white to survive. anyone can exhibit those generic behavioral traits. What the P/J thing comes down to is this: J's have a sense of control about them and P's have a flow about them. You yourself said that the IP description was too "go with the flow" for you, and the vibe of your posts has the EJ controlled intensity to it. Additionally, you would be Ni-ENFj which is the more impulsive type that can seem P'ish, as opposed to the Fe-ENFj.

don't let others confuse you - you're beta...I can sense that shit

I totally agree with strrrng here. Once again, I am voting for Ni-EIE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strrrng

this would be called...Ni paired with Fe

Kelly, could you give a more cognitive description? How do you think? behaviors are essentially meaningless (which most people tend to forget) for typing; motivations and thought processes are what matter

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Wow, symbolic meaning of people's behaviors AND symbolic meaning of everything, more like. When I talk about meaning, that's the meaning I'm talking about.

I believe my sis is Si and she could care less about the meaning of anything. lol I've talked about the meaning of life since I came out the womb. :)

Ok, here goes...the only true way to cognitively describe this is a **clear knowing**. How do I think? It feels like an analyzing of things that I just *know* about the *meaning* of things. Everything in and around me and others is a symbol of something Higher happening. And I have this *knowing* of what that meaning is. The knowing of this meaning is swirling in my mind 24/7. A big indicator of that meaning comes through my emotional body. And with this constant knowing going on in me all of the time, it's very hard to relax because it feels as if I "must" do something about this knowing. It "must" be the reason I "came here" or I wouldn't have been "given" this gift. I don't really talk like this and tell others because as a kid, everyone around me just thought I was arrogant and crazy. I was so afraid of people that I constantly asked my mom the ins and outs (whys) of social behavior to learn it be kinda normal. I blended in all right, to the point of driving myself mad. I have longed to be able to say what is actually going on in me and for others to think I was ok, even cool because of it. I value individual self expression based on the whisperings of Spirit, the inner knowings of each Soul playing in this lifetime. And get out of my fucking way if you cross my path in me doing it. :)

How's that?

Love,
Kelly Jo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Wow, symbolic meaning of people's behaviors AND symbolic meaning of everything, more like. When I talk about meaning, that's the meaning I'm talking about.

I believe my sis is Si and she could care less about the meaning of anything. lol I've talked about the meaning of life since I came out the womb. :)

Ok, here goes...the only true way to cognitively describe this is a **clear knowing**. How do I think? It feels like an analyzing of things that I just *know* about the *meaning* of things. Everything in and around me and others is a symbol of something Higher happening. And I have this *knowing* of what that meaning is. The knowing of this meaning is swirling in my mind 24/7. A big indicator of that meaning comes through my emotional body. And with this constant knowing going on in me all of the time, it's very hard to relax because it feels as if I "must" do something about this knowing. It "must" be the reason I "came here" or I wouldn't have been "given" this gift.

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Ok, that's starting to sound a lot like EIE. IEEs seem to be on the constant search for this meaning, rather than wanting to express it. I missed it because I'm used to seeing EIEs be more explicit about their "cause," although I know it can be more general.

I officially withdraw my IEE vote, and submit another for EIE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by implied

err, other things.

poor descriptions, but if you can pick one that sounds more like you, it could be helpful -

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Infantile

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Victim

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that was hard...the aggressor and caretaker were not me, but there still were aspects to each of the other two that were.

Sorry... :)

Love,
Kelly Jo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Ok, here goes...the only true way to cognitively describe this is a **clear knowing**. How do I think? It feels like an analyzing of things that I just *know* about the *meaning* of things. Everything in and around me and others is a symbol of something Higher happening. And I have this *knowing* of what that meaning is. The knowing of this meaning is swirling in my mind 24/7. A big indicator of that meaning comes through my emotional body. And with this constant knowing going on in me all of the time, it's very hard to relax because it feels as if I "must" do something about this knowing. It "must" be the reason I "came here" or I wouldn't have been "given" this gift. I don't really talk like this and tell others because as a kid, everyone around me just thought I was arrogant and crazy. I was so afraid of people that I constantly asked my mom the ins and outs (whys) of social behavior to learn it be kinda normal. I blended in all right, to the point of driving myself mad. I have longed to be able to say what is actually going on in me and for others to think I was ok, even cool because of it. I value individual self expression based on the whisperings of Spirit, the inner knowings of each Soul playing in this lifetime. And get out of my fucking way if you cross my path in me doing it.

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I fucking love that! you just reified everything I suggested lol

Ni-EIE....no doubts...said it from the beginning...BITCH

i'm satisfied with Ni EIE

but i'm always open...

and i don't have to search for meaning, i can find it anywhere, anytime...because it's always within me. my "outer" search is not for meaning but for an outlet of expression for that meaning. i am happy when i have an outlet for that meaning, preferrably serving others in some way. And my parenting, my family, my marriage is my biggest outlet. Though I know it will and has expanded in other directions over the years. But for now my kids are my most important "cause." :)

Thanks everyone! See ya around... :)

Love,
Kelly Jo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

and i don't have to search for meaning, i can find it anywhere, anytime...because it's always within me. my "outer" search is not for meaning but for an outlet of expression for that meaning. i am happy when i have an outlet for that meaning, preferrably serving others in some way. And my parenting, my family, my marriage is my biggest outlet. Though I know it will and has expanded in other directions over the years. But for now my kids are my most important "cause."

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that's exactly right; meaning starts and ends internally

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strrrng

I fucking love that! you just reified everything I suggested lol

Ni-EIE....no doubts...said it from the beginning...BITCH

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Congratulations, you may now add yet another "r" to your name

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRiddy

Congratulations, you may now add yet another "r" to your name

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lolll

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Wow, symbolic meaning of people's behaviors AND symbolic meaning of everything, more like. When I talk about meaning, that's the meaning I'm talking about.

I believe my sis is Si and she could care less about the meaning of anything. lol I've talked about the meaning of life since I came out the womb. :)

Ok, here goes...the only true way to cognitively describe this is a **clear knowing**. How do I think? It feels like an analyzing of things that I just *know* about the *meaning* of things. Everything in and around me and others is a symbol of something Higher happening. And I have this *knowing* of what that meaning is. The knowing of this meaning is swirling in my mind 24/7. A big indicator of that meaning comes through my emotional body. And with this constant knowing going on in me all of the time, it's very hard to relax because it feels as if I "must" do something about this knowing. It "must" be the reason I "came here" or I wouldn't have been "given" this gift. I don't really talk like this and tell others because as a kid, everyone around me just thought I was arrogant and crazy. I was so afraid of people that I constantly asked my mom the ins and outs (whys) of social behavior to learn it be kinda normal. I blended in all right, to the point of driving myself mad. I have longed to be able to say what is actually going on in me and for others to think I was ok, even cool because of it. I value individual self expression based on the whisperings of Spirit, the inner knowings of each Soul playing in this lifetime. And get out of my fucking way if you cross my path in me doing it. :)

How's that?

Love,
Kelly Jo

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That sounds quite Ni to me. Ni ENFj sounds good to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRiddy

Ok, that's starting to sound a lot like EIE. IEEs seem to be on the constant search for this meaning, rather than wanting to express it. I missed it because I'm used to seeing EIEs be more explicit about their "cause," although I know it can be more general.

I officially withdraw my IEE vote, and submit another for EIE.

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Yep, that last post makes it pretty clear that she's not ENFp...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

I tend to be that way with my own opinions and views on things as well. But with myself...and appraising myself....well...but with everything else I do not appreciate wishy washyness. Give it to me straight. I've always been a black/white person, right/wrong person, which to me says rational.

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Hmm is this necessarily a rational/irrational thing? Could it be devalued Ne and/or valued Ti?

man I knew it, if I wasn't such a little pussy. I said she was EIE about 10 minutes after she posted. Then Phaedrus came in with his war drum and then Kristina came and said she wasn't EIE, so I chickened out. ha fail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kamangir

man I knew it, if I wasn't such a little pussy. I said she was EIE about 10 minutes after she posted. Then Phaedrus came in with his war drum and then Kristina came and said she wasn't EIE, so I chickened out. ha fail.

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Hey, that's ok. You got it. :)

Do you or anyone else know why people who did say EIE also said Ni-EIE? I assumed it meant Ni subtype and put that in my sig, but now, I'd like to know the difference between that and Fe subtype. Are they going by the wikisocion subtype descriptions?

Love,
Kelly Jo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Hey, that's ok. You got it. :)

Do you or anyone else know why people who did say EIE also said Ni-EIE? I assumed it meant Ni subtype and put that in my sig, but now, I'd like to know the difference between that and Fe subtype. Are they going by the wikisocion subtype descriptions?

Love,
Kelly Jo

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Subtypes are overrated. And there are many different ways in which they are explained, depending on which socionist you read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

i'm satisfied with Ni EIE

but i'm always open...

and i don't have to search for meaning, i can find it anywhere, anytime...because it's always within me. my "outer" search is not for meaning but for an outlet of expression for that meaning. i am happy when i have an outlet for that meaning, preferrably serving others in some way. And my parenting, my family, my marriage is my biggest outlet. Though I know it will and has expanded in other directions over the years. But for now my kids are my most important "cause." :)

Thanks everyone! See ya around... :)

Love,
Kelly Jo

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Sure, it's now sounding EIE more possible, but even though it's less likely, i'd still keep IEE in the back of your mind.

Did you read that article P stands for Phenonemon? How did that go?

Also, how have you found IRL intertype relations play out (you don't have to answer this one on post if you don't want, have a think about it.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRiddy

dbmmama, welcome to the16types, where you will undoubtedly spend most of the remaining waking hours of your life. We will never agree on your type. There will never be any shortage of drama surrounding petty issues and differences in interpretation. We will bicker about what is petty and what is meaningful. And most of all, we will never give you any more insight into anything.

Hope you like it

Love,

Riddy

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Hes right. Beware this forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

Phaedrus,

I appreciate your direct and confident appraisal. I tend to be that way with my own opinions and views on things as well. But with myself...and appraising myself....well...but with everything else I do not appreciate wishy washyness. Give it to me straight. I've always been a black/white person, right/wrong person, which to me says rational. What makes you say irrational? I've worked very hard to let go of some of that all or nothing thinking. Maybe I come across more open and flowy because I try very hard to be that way more since it's not natural.

And with the definitions on Rick's site, Extraversion fits more. With about half and half between rational and irrational.

Love,
Kelly Jo

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That post does not seem IEE at all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbmmama

i'm satisfied with Ni EIE

but i'm always open...

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Just to make one thing absolutely clear. First we determine your correct main type ... and after that is done we can leave the subtype out of the picture, because it has only curios value.