When people express excitement and positive emotion around you does it make you cringe a little? If yes, then would you mind listing specifically what kinds of things because I'm guessing there will be some positive expressions that won't bother you, like if you see someone smiling.
This is going to be a difficult one for me to answer, but here goes.. I think the important part is exactly how it's expressed, rather than what's expressed. It's like.. I dunno, perhaps a part of it is also about who it is who's actually getting excited or emotional or whatever. I'm not really sure how to explain it. But consider this - SEEs are known to get pretty excitable or emotional at times, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. If anything, I find it quite cute. But I really don't know how to explain the difference between this sort of excitability and the sort that would annoy me. Perhaps others would have more useful insights than I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLauritson
i think i know what you mean... like you like liveliness>enthusiasm?
basically, i think that is what he means....basicallyQuote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
....i mean...basically ;]
looks like it is the difference of Fe expression vs. Se expression (which is fueled by Fi (knowing what we like))
I was thinking about this this morning before I got up actually.. now I'm aware there might be unintentional bias in what I post next, so apologies to Fe-valuers since I'm not trying to demean Fe or whatever, but here goes. I think.. sort of the way I see Fe is that it's almost like.. projecting the emotion. I don't mean projecting in the sense of "I'm feeling angry, therefore I'm going to assume you're the one being angry", since I don't think that's necessarily type or function related. When I say projecting.. the best analogy I can think of is the same way a singer would project his or her voice forward to the audience. From my perspective, based on what understanding and experience I have with Fe, that is how it appears to me, and it's that sort of emotionality that would make me feel uncomfortable. Well, if it were positive emotion it would probably make me feel uncomfortable, if it were negative emotion (such as anger) I'd probably feel intimidated. I'm not really sure how to describe this difference between Fe and Se with Fi, but it definitely doesn't feel the same way from SEEs. It's a very subtle difference and I think that unless you were to see examples of the two different types in action, it would be difficult to understand exactly how they're different. Again, I know Fe-valuers might see Fe differently here, and like I say, I'm not trying to demean or ridicule Fe or anything like that, this is just what limited understanding I have of the function based on observing Fe-dominants in real life (I don't really notice the same from Fe-creatives, but I haven't really socialised with any Fe-creatives outside of work apart from a couple of work outings, so I don't know how that would manifest differently).
No. I just don't know how to deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
i feel as though i might have the perfect way to explain it but i can't get the words out =\
i basically agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLauritson
yeah..."projecting" emotion is a good term for it. I will sometimes feel that twinge when friends act overly smiley, cutesy, giving hugs, etc. with no apparetn outside cause, especially if there is the implied demand of 'why don't you reciprocate to help me enjoy my good mood?' If I'm not feeling an emotional high myself, I guess I respond with more sarcasm/detachment than usual.
maybe its a different sort of annoying for you? when you get annoyed, is it normally because the person in question is reaction more emotionally than you are and therefore getting whatever so of attention Fe dominants get?Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourama
-OR-
perhaps you are INTp as opposed to INFp (that is what you think you are right?)
on one hand i havn't really conversed with you enough to notice your Fe, on the other hand i have noticed that you're rather cynical ;)
if it's genuine, non-pressured, and not interested in getting others to express the same emotion, it's generally fine.
an example of what i do not tolerate:
-happy birthday!!!
-hm?
-why aren't you happy? it's your birthday!
-uhhhm....i'm ok.
-smile, its your birthday!
-so, what? leave me alone.
(basically, obligatory happiness is stupid)
I agree with this assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
As an Fe-creative type I think I might know what you mean and don't see any reason why you should even bother trying not to offend people. Is it like you're irritated by Fe when it's coming off as "fake sympathy" so to speak, when someone pretends to care about something that they don't actually care about? Also maybe like telling someone something just to make them feel good, even if it's blatantly not true? or I guess when you feel like someone's actively trying to force you (directly/indirectly) to feel something that you just don't feel? These are examples of things that can annoy me as well, it's like undeveloped FeQuote:
Originally Posted by BLauritson
I'm asking because the way I see it every function seems different when used responsibly vs. with ulterior insincere motives. For example I only feel "Te-PoLR'd" when Te is used against me in a manner I find insulting and stupid - it's as if the person doing it is just doing it for their own vanity i.e. correcting me/telling me I'm wrong but just for the sake of doing it and with no inclination to explain why. On the other hand I actually seek Te critiques when I trust the person and their ability to articulate themselves (i.e. critiquing/correcting my resumee which I know is crap). I was wondering if you distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' Fe so to speak in a similar manner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutii
thats what i told um
i think you're on to something in your second paragraph there
there is like 0.1% chance of glamourama being Gamma as I get the same annoyed feeling she expressed in regards to Fe sometimes and there's like 0.09% chance I'm gammaQuote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
The thing is that when IEIs like glamourama or I say something like "Fe can be annoying" it's different than when an Fe-PoLR type states it - for them it's not just something annoying that they can brush away, like a fly buzzing around a meal, but rather something potentially harmful that can leave a mark psychologically, more like poison hidden in a meal.
I wonder if this is the norm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
If you were wrong in this case, I wouldn't find it surprising either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't surprised that you weren't surprised about her being un-surprised about you being un-surprised about her being un-surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
I'm so curious to hear the responses to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by misutii
Well that's unforeseeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
Oh wait, I mean surprising! Shit!
It wouldn't surprise me that you were surprised at your mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elro
We're not very surprising people are we?
Are you surprised by that?Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
This joke is getting surprisingly old.
hahaha. =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourama
that sounds like how i used to be, maybe you're SEE? muahahaha
juuust kidding.
i was kinda nuts too, and spoke of things i knew nothing of.
who am i kidding? im still nuts and do that ;]
I do not see why that would make you have a Fe-PoLR. Fe is about reading the underlying internal dynamics that in social contexts usually translates as emotions. If you are reading these emotional broadcast signals of happiness as being fake or obligatory, then I think that it could be just as bad if not worse for someone with Fe in their ego as you would be the one best able to tell (apart from maybe someone with Fi in their ego who would also have strong Fe). The misconception that Fe = fake or obligatory happiness or insincerity needs to end.
The describes me pretty well too, except that as a male I suppose others would view me as an "asshole" or "conceited prick", as they would serve as better nouns than bitch, but really, as far as I'm concerned, people that have had such views of me have either possessed double digit IQs or are so psychologically deformed that when I'm near them I feel like I have a Phd in clinical psychiatry(a feeling that takes most people 7 years of social isolation doing hard academic labour to achieve lol suckers), which makes me content enough to give them the good old Betan STFU goodbyeQuote:
Originally Posted by glamourama
Please tell us how you really feel about us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
I was being facetious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
It's funny to me how the question asked in the first post is still not adequately answered (or at least not imo) Only blauritson actually made a truly detailed attempt.
I would really like to know what exactly it is about :Fe: vs. :Fi: that makes "all the difference" to ILIs. I observe SEEs (or um, myself? If I'm SEE) ... and well, they are always cheery, bubbly and LIVELY. That IS the perfect word to describe them. It's more like in their own world sort of emotion. :Fe: dominants... well... they want to influence the moods of others. Maybe it's just influencing that bothers the ILIs?
Wait what? lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
Oh I meant the norm for INTps.
But I dunno there are many other types (maybe all other types in fact) that wouldn't join in with the merriment for whatever reason. Like if I was in a bad mood then no I wouldn't join in with the merriment either.
This whole thing just came about because Niffweed mentioned in his vid that certain emotional expressions really make him (and other ILIs) cringe and I wanted to understand that better.
Is that really an accurate portrayal of Fe-dominants or SEEs though? My original (albeit roundabout) point with the thread is that NO ONE wants insincere emotional displays, which is what seemed to be implied with talk of Fe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
Fe-PoLRs may have difficulties interpreting and deciphering Fe signals that are being sent. So they may misinterpret Fe signals as being signs of Fi. That is not to say that the Fe signs are somehow insincere (though they of course can be), but that they are misconstrued as something they are not, which can be emotionally damaging to those with Fe-PoLRs when they are expecting something else (Fi). So those with valued-Fi may see Fe as something that is reserved for the few with whom strong relational bonds have been formed (Fi). But in Fe-valuing contexts, the Fi emotional bonds are formed gradually following from Fe and are seen as being in a constant state of dynamic flux and change. Often in Fe-valuing quadras, Ti-dominants have little ability to gauge the extent of Fi-bonds, so they rely upon outward signs of Fe to "close the gap of understanding" and establish where they stand in relation to a person at a given moment, while the Fi-bond may be taken for granted or go unnoticed.
it's not a simple question to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
give me some more time to mull it over.Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
Right. With ILIs it might be that it's much more consistent and frequent and with other types it might be more of an exception/rarity for them to not want to join the merriemnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
I dunno. Is that it though? Are all ILIs really pessimistic though?...Isn't it more of just an awareness of probable negative outcomes instead of actual pessimism?
Need more data...
Obviously I can't really judge what you've written for Ti-ego types, but I definitely agree with what you said about Fe-PoLR types. Even with knowledge of Socionics, if someone's polite or friendly towards me, I always (by default) interpret that as a sign that they have good intentions towards me and that they're essentially starting to form a bond with me, such as that of friendship for example. I'm very easily charmed for this reason. Which can be extremely detrimental if someone has negative intentions towards me but masks it with friendliness or whatever...I dunno, I get the feeling I'm not really describing anything exclusive to Fe-PoLR here, but what I'm trying to get at is that I find it very difficult to.. "see through the ruse" as it were. I dunno, I think I've veered away from Fe-PoLR specific now and am just describing general social naïveté here, which obviously isn't completely type-related. I dunno. I definitely agree with what you said though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos
I think in my case at least, I tend to have a more pessimistic outlook by default, but I'm in no way restricted to that. I think it's just that I can easily look at something in several ways and, perhaps because of negativism (not sure how much faith I put in that dichotomy personally), it just defaults to focusing on the negatives, so to speak. A good example I can think of is if someone I care about is worrying over some sort of issue, perhaps something they did for example, I can easily flip it over to show them the bright side, provided I deem it appropriate. I dunno, I'm not confident when I write this stuff purely because I'm not confident that it's all type-related, I keep thinking of other possible psychological reasons why I might do this. I'll have to think on this more. Which I blatantly won't because I'll forget all about this post as soon as I hit submit and close the tab since I'm so easily distracted.Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
i think it's exactly as i explained: ILIs are pessimistic because they dislike effecting displays of positive emotions, not vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
wait what?Quote:
Originally Posted by niffweed17
OH.
Ok so you're saying that ILIs are pessimistic because they don't want to create displays of positive emotion?
Are you simplifying? I thought it was that ILIs were PRONE to pessimism not that all ILIs ARE pessimistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLauritson
LOL
yeaaaah, i have this problem too. i'm always genuine with people, i say what i mean (or at least TRY to, i am misinterpreted a great deal) and expect the same in return. after interactions, some of my Fe dominant or Fe (grubbing i like to call them) friends will tell me that i was way off the mark with the person and they were secretly thinking i was off-the-wall and completely nuts and just pretending to like me or tolerating me. when they tell me this i feel as though something in me has been hit...and i get pretty pissed off. i don't fucking understand why anyone would PRETEND that way. it just doesn't make sense. it's not helping anyone. i guess they think they're being polite...Quote:
Originally Posted by BLauritson
its even worse if i liked the person.
maybe ILI's seem pessimistic because they can see such a large spectrum of possibilities and they get discouraged when they see the worst possibility?
or something like that....
i think i have more this thought but can't articulate it....
meh i dunno about the other Fe dominants and creatives but I hate un-genuineness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khamelion
I can identify with this to a certain extent. I was at a wind-up the other night - and sober (I was driving) - any every once inwhile someone would be like, "hey force... WOOOOOO!!111" and I was all like, "hey, woo to you too, tuff guy".Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
:8*
I've grown really close to my school friends, but they're all douche-bags when drunk. If I don't look out for them, no one will. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dolphin
Salawa, that was very eloquent! I like it. :Ni: in IEIs is similar I think, but different in the sense that instead of the IEI being steadily pessimistic they use :Fe: as a means of inspiring hope that things can get better. Of course consequences include escaping reality by living vicariously through another person, and periods of deep depression/isolation each time their method of realizing hope fails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
But I identify with this sentence especially:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
Quote:
I think there is also something in :Ni:-leading (in ILIs, not so much in IEIs) that lends itself to pessimism. You have so much "perspective" that it's easy to start seeing everything as pointless.
this is part of what my last post in this thread was getting at....
id mostly agree with this, but allow me to split hairs for a moment. i think rather than pessimism (which i don't readily identify with), it's a natural outgrowth of viewing the world (and one's place in it) trans-temporally. it is neither optimistic nor pessimistic, just "as it is" in context of how events flow in and out of each other and of how we as humans are prone to be observers rather than active participants. so, we too flow in and out of our lives, or should if we are striving to be objective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
it is as if, in my mind, there are ever-evolving "props" which give events their proper place, their proper duration, their proper value. the props develop and fluctuate as well, however, as a result of all sorts of factors. generally, i see them as representing the essential and sustaining value of something, as opposed to the present or immediate value of something, which really can't be determined by virtue of one's opinion or feelings about life and certainly can't be seen as a reliable means of gauging any substantial meaning. i guess it's an approach based on causation, primarily. that is to say: what is experienced today, since it results from has already been experienced, can't be evaluated as either good or bad. the goal for me is a sort of remainder of zero, a balance, and this basically translates into possessing less of the world and oneself, and observing more. i'm not saying there are no feelings involved, but that feelings take a backseat to allow for some overarching, emergent meaning to surface. to be attached to the meaning is to lose it.
oh, definitely...Quote:
Originally Posted by Salawa
to which my argument is basically along the lines of: if i lack a piece of bread, does it mean i desire a piece of bread? of course not. why place value on that which doesn't need to be valued? a piece of bread is a piece of bread. if i wanted one and drew attention to the fact that i lacked one and had no chance of obtaining one, i could rightly be seen as pessimistic. but if i simply state that there is no piece of bread (i.e. possess a more negativist attitude) or, more subtly, point to the empty space on the kitchen table, i am simply noting what isn't there or that something isn't there.
i do think it is largely a result of the pos./neg. reinin dichotomy, at least inasmuch as i understand it.
if i say, "look, there is an area of sky weaving in and out of the trees on the horizon," i am simply choosing not to focus on the trees which occupy positive space, but rather focusing on the background which creeps in and out more subtly, and sometimes rather bleakly in comparison to what is commonly noted, i suppose.
ok maybe that's why i was a bit confused....i don't view what reyn was talking about as pessimism...
And thanks to everyone that responded to this thread. :D
As far as excitement goes, I'm reluctant to go all out on those types of reactions myself. I internalize moreso, and when people try to probe those types of things out of me, it's just not natural. I'm all for positivity, but it depends on how big and loud the expression is.
I'm happy for other people when positivity happen for them, but if the expression becomes too big and loud, it becomes overwhelming for me. I don't say anything out loud to them, but I keep my snarky comment in my head. People get lost in this type of unrestrained excitement. When people expect everyone around them to feel how they're feeling when expressing emotions, this is when it gets to the point of being at the overwhelming threshold.
I think a big difference with SEE Fe/ Se-Fi combo, is that there is not a requirement to reciprocate being hinted at when they speak to you Enthusiastically. Fe sometimes tries to inspire an emotion inside of you, the Fe user then waits and sees if you have been affected by their contagious emotion, and with Fi valuers it can fall flat and be outright unresponsive/confusing to an Fe valuer. SEE Se/Fi combo just feels like a loud self generated joy that exists without any need for you to reciprocate it back and it makes it feel nice with no pressure, almost like you have the choice to join in on their joy, and most people are compelled to, which creates that Fe effect. The independence of Fi emotions is more familiar and comfortable for Fi users than the need for collective shared emotions Fe can sometimes place on Fi's shoulders, which can feel like a burden, I imagine especially to Fe ignoring or PoLR.
Here's an example between the enthusiastic Fi (I think) and the Fe requirement.
I went to a new church one time with a friend, we were the youngest people there so the members looked at us like "Ohhhh young people" so some of them came up to greet us. The ones that I noticed with clear Fe were kinda like "Hiiiii! Nice to meet youuuuu! Where are you from?!" and I could feel this expectation that I had to respond with the same high pitched voice and enthusiasm they did while they stared at me and waited for my response with big eyes. It's not natural for me so I just kinda responded with how I honestly felt, more mellow and dry, and kinda trying to bring things back to my comfort level, because if I did try their way I would look like an idiot. Also their expressions came off like it had hidden agendas, I didn't see their expression at face value, what I actually saw was "We are being nice to you so you come back and join our church." so it felt kinda deceptive. But there was one guy that came up to us that was singing in the choir, and he was just happy, shook my handy in this happy mood, said hi to me and my friend in this really jolly deep resonating happy mood, and idk I felt comfortable with that guy, after he said hi and shook our hands he didn't stare me down to see if I would respond as happy as him, he said hi to us because he never seen us before and asked for nothing. There was also a guy who was a little more honest and said "Hey we don't see alot of young faces around here so come on back!" and cracked a smile, I felt more comfortable with that man as well since his intentions were clear and he didn't seem deceptive. When we left the couple of people who were very clearly Fe were still like "Nice to meet youuuu!!!! Would you mind filling out one of our visitor forms!" And they could see I was not into it anymore and I felt like they felt like they failed or something, I remember one guy looked confused like "Hey I'm being nice to you buddy! Come on be nice back!", but he wouldn't dare say that out loud. And that's not the only time that happened, one time a lady at another church I visited, saw I wasn't talking much, overreacted with every little thing I said to make me feel welcome and then hands me a mic to speak because I'm a new person, talk about being put on the spot to be made to feel "comfortable and welcome." Geez, but for her it was like she was not comfortable with how kept to myself I was, and she was trying to solve that like it was some kind of problem. She was an extreme case.
Ok I'm sorry, I gotta drop this other example because I intentionally sought out to see how people would respond. Long story short, I pretended to be an asshole at an event I volunteered for and Fe tried to come to the rescue.
For some weird reason I wanted to see how people would respond to me if I acted like an asshole, because I was tired of trying to get people to warm up to me, I wanted to see what it was like on the other side. So I rarely smiled when people talked to me, kind of faked a snobby "Don't talk to me" attitude. And guess what happens, Fe folk are trying to cheer me up, even people who are attending the event are trying to find out what's wrong with me and cheer me up. It was very strange since I didn't expect that reaction whatsoever. I did have a few people want to fight me though, but I had a number of people ask me "What's wrong, you had a long day?" but the icing on the cake was, at one point I was standing around looking extra peeved and this one woman whose working a booth, while she's talking to someone else says "You know whose awesome?" comes up to me and puts her hands on my shoulders and says "THIS GUY!", to try and cheer me up, she said it loud enough to quiet a few people in the room. To stay faithful to my "experiment" I looked at her with a dead pan face and just shrug, because I was slight confused, man the look on her face was the look of shock and defeat . That experiment felt like I was bleeding in a sea full of sharks with Fe, they could just smell the blood from a mile way.
I'm not an ILI but ESEs do this kind of thing so much to me too so I think it's an Ni polr thing. They're constantly trying to "bring me out of my shell" whenever I'm quiet or just thinking and it feels intrusive. Specifically the Si subtype ESE will have this uncomfortable look on their face around me if I'm not being gregarious enough by their standards. I'm like just let me be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
The Fe subtypes will do things like this..
LMAOQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pixel
Dredging up a topic that is over 10 years old... there really is nothing new to discuss. There is nothing new under the sun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibiscus
Not ILI but I’d hate this too? Their lack of exclusivity is what bothers me more. I associate that behavior more with SO/sp Fe, high pitched voices that sends shrills down my spine. Who are they trying to impress? Why are they treating me like a step to having more influence? Even EIEs do it, but it’s more subtle because they use Ni to eliminate who’s unnecessary, they don’t do it on a large scale so it’s never as cringe worthy.
The SO/sp LSE in my class doesn’t mind playing along to things like this. It reminds me of Hilary Clinton attempting to gain voters by appealing to teenagers in 2016. SO/sp EII and IEE self-degrade themselves and/or try to be unique and/or complain about how higher ups (self imposed hierarchy) exclude them despite them lacking chemistry.
I don’t mind Fe trying to brighten the mood so much as with WHOM their doing it with. Random person on the street trying to brighten the mood? Idk. Personally if I do that I’d feel cheap. I like value to my people so I would never associate myself with SO/sp ESEs.
We like talking about ourselves, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by enmity
I'd say it depends on how you express it. If you choose to scream in my ears, disrespect people, make them visibly uncomfortable or overwhelm the room with your attitude, I can straight up shoot that excitement down. Aside from that, I let everyone be, and feel and do whatever they want.
I wouldn't say I dislike displays of excitement and positive emotion, it's only that I can't reciprocate that. Even if I'm feeling joyous, that visible expression just can't come out and if I try to force it I get very self-conscious and uncomfortable. I don't have the energy for it.
People learn, opinions change and more people join the forum (aka me). It's always refreshing to have new perspectives and give others the opportunity to join the topic late.Quote:
Originally Posted by enmity
I think my ILI father loves me for my expressions of excitement and positive emotion and bouts of silliness. But then again I am his daughter.
I am only bothered by expression of emotion if I find it to be insincere or more often as a "formality." As I have been working in a drive thru I am in some ways required to do this myself but nonetheless I am still bothered by people acting overly thankful for me doing such a meager task for them.
On the other hand, expression of emotion with friends and family is a lovely experience a lot of the time - many of my interactions will involve humor and playfulness.. I mean, I'm not a robot :P
Only if it's utterly irrational and categorically stupid. And that goes for both positive and negative expressions. For example, there are many a video about nerds practically cumming themselves over a "new" installment of a franchise they practically/literally worship as a god. That's cringe, really and truly cringe for reasons I can wax on about for hours. That's a "positive" experience that I'd cringe at.
As for the negative, well, I've been called heartless for not crying at a funeral. Damned fools don't realize I cried long before then. I knew they were gonna die, I felt it in my bones. I had already shed all my tears before their death became official. I think that's a common misconception in regards to ILIs. The other quadras tend to see us as autistic robots who don't seem to feel anything. We do, but only a few people seem to get that. Only those we fully trust get to see us for who we really are. Rather emotional beings who only act robotic as a matter of convenience and expediency towards those we do not.
This goes double for men (of whom comprise the majority of those who are ILI). If you display emotional vulnerability as one, more often than not, you'll suffer for it greatly. The mirror works as well. Be "overly" rational and calculating such that you seem to be "cold" to a great degree as a female and ye will also suffer for it.
It's not like I dislike positive emotions. I just won't react to it. It is somehow expected a lot that you reciprocate and some people have told me I am too silent or too unresponsive. They only say that because I mostly stick to the facts when talking (except when joking of course), I don't show them affectionate gestures and Fe back. I tried doing that and I just cringed at myself. Every year I just stop caring less and accept myself. I mean, most of the time I really just feel neutral. It really baffles me when some people will be talking to a stranger and smile a lot and be very open. Like, I don't even know who this person is, why would I be that engaging towards them? Even at work, it's not like they are my friends or something? And most of the conversations are not something to be happy with anyway.
I cannot say that I enjoy it when people are too excited and positive in my presence. Most of those emotions are fake and most of them expect you to act similar to them. But for some people that I am close to, probably the Gammas and Deltas, I get naturally happy for them because it doesn't feel like they want to get emotional feedback from you. My way of being happy for them is just smiling for a bit and internalizing it. I don't think it's even obvious that I am happy for them.
My ILI friend seems to care about my positive emotions that I am experiencing. But the 'let's share a group mood' message seems to be very diffferent than me just being very happy and them observing me. They smile softly and gently in this REALLY sweet way at my happiness...it's just not the same as 'responding to social request to identify with a group vibe.
I know an ILI. This person is emotionally inexpressive and states things in a matter-of-fact (but not overly blunt) way. My ILI friend has a dry and unique sense of humor.
If you want to hear the inner voice of an ILI, listen to the Murderbot books by Martha Wells.
Murderbot talks exactly like most of my ILI buddies.
Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYCfBNOeCk
I'm willing to bet they're all atheistic or otherwise view the concept of optimism as either a stupid or alien concept. Fits with the stereotype for my kind I admit, but hey, there's the likes of me. I do wonder if you know of an example of a theistic and optimistic ILI in your life. If you do, tell me of your interactions. My thirst for data points knows no bounds :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it might be IEI. :yup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by End
I only know of one guy who might be ILI and religious. He's a mechanic in a car garage and he works for a religious SEE. I have never spoken to this guy, I've only watched him.
I do know an optimistic (kind of) ILI. He's my financial advisor. He was dropped off in an orphanage as a kid and left there by his mother for a few years while she tried to get her life together. He has been married and divorced about three times. He's a great, great guy, and he likes young female SEE's, but he can't seem to get them into his life. I think he's a millionaire, but he doesn't make that obvious. He has never mentioned religion to me, but he's Lakota and he seems to believe in natural spirits of nature. Or something. It's not clear to me, and we've never talked about it.
He keeps getting involved with these women he meets on retreats. None of them are SEE.
My best ILI buddy is also single and very well-off, financially. He wasn't able to bring himself to speak to my SEE lab partner in HS, and he's spent the rest of his life looking for her in other women and not finding her. I feel bad for him. He is a bitter pessimist and scoffs at religion, but he's a great guy. Very unintentionally funny sometimes.
As I had implied in my ILI description that they seem to distrust emotion in others although they themselves can sometimes be out-of-control emotional. Perhaps, they don't trust these displays because when ILIs show such behaviour, many are wanting to figuratively do harm to others. Many seem to equate emotion of any kind with a certain amount of personal instability or loss of control.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O
a.k.a. I/O
re: emotion == loss of controlQuote:
Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
my close friend told me a while back that i once confided in her that "[ i ] hated being happy" because i felt like i lose control. i was surprised that she still remembered that. i think i thought it was undignified and fogged my judgement, bc with happiness, like anger (though it can be a good motivator), just spills over and i feel like i don't act in ways i wouldn't otherwise.
Interesting. The religious ILI working for the religious SEE makes sense. Same conclusions, different angles. Hard to bring up religion in conversation organically however. If you get the chance though, go for it. Might even get you to try it out :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
The Lakota ILI would need some bit of optimism to keep going given his situation in the meta sense. Especially if he holds to the faith of his ancestors. Pretty hard to swallow living as a conquered people without giving into hatred or despair unless you're Christian (hard to explain why fully here without going off on a long tangent, can attempt if you want me to try elsewhere). Same problem as above applies though. Again, hard to just bring up religion and spirituality organically.
As for your best ILI buddy, well, this might be an :Ni: vs :Te: dominant issue. See, I had no problems asking girls I was into out. Indeed, I felt that if I didn't give it a shot I'd regret it forever. That always ended badly for me but at least I "know" if ya get me. Better to have loved and lost and all that. Rejection sucks, but it's way better than wondering if she actually would have accepted your proposal and be consumed by the dreams of what may have been y'know?
When it has a rational base and is expressed in a balanced fashion it's fine and comfortable and just the way things should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by theMime.
It's annoying when it reveals an empty, ignorant mind. Or a twisted value system. And when it's out of proportion to what there is to feel happy about. Especially when the emoting person neither accepts nor appreciates moderating input.
Depends on if the emotion makes sense or I also am feeling it. For example if my friend was like 'YAS -music artist I've never heard of- released new playlist!!' I'd probably just say 'cool' and fake that I'm interested in it or whatever because I like my friend. Now lets say that friend and I were playing a game together, and my friend scored. If we are on the same team, I'd be excited that we're winning, and if they expressed that same feeling I could in some way mimic it to express my own and compliment my friend on their skills.
the only time I really cringe at emotional expression is when it doesn't make sense or is 'too much' - for example: phone cracked, person starts bawling - when someone gets mad over nothing - when someone's mean or sad for the smallest thing- anytime someone gives me a compliment I think I don't deserve
no, depending on how its expressed sometimes it can induce secondhand embarrassment but usually no. I actually don't mind Fe if it's paired with Ni.
It looks like my sense on this parrots what a lot of ILIs are saying so I think I get a pass offering my input. which is that I think Fe polr is less about the visible expression of emotion and more about the extroverted participation in the exchange that results (naturally, with matching elements). Communication sync on that plane doesnt come very intuitively and it's perceived as pressure to perform.
Why should they dislike emotion? I would just imagine that their grasp, their control, their superiority over not acting out of emotion, but rather channeling emotion would make the jungle shake and rumble under their boots of blinding speed as the opposite.
Whereas the speed of acting immediately out of emotion is blind, thinking about things more, and acting rationally is higher. And to comprehend your emotion is to feel them more, and to understand why you act as you do is to be more free, like Spinoza or SolitaryWalker!!
Now SolitaryWalker was the most interesting man ever, digging through thought after extravagant web of positions to alter in the mind time fabric of densities in reality to the impenetrable unknown. He is the Ultimate Philosopher!!
Pressure to perform, yeah.Quote:
Communication sync on that plane doesnt come very intuitively and it's perceived as pressure to perform.
I often feel like I have to entertain Fe valuing peeps and I hate it. Worst is I know I won't be up to their expectations, which tends to make me feel cheated in the end if I try to interact anyway. The image it brings me is a chihuahua dressed in bright frilly clothes being made to do tricks for the enjoyment of a public. It feels humiliating tbh.
And I already see coming the "explain more" demands, that's also aggravating because if what I put out already doesn't make something happen in people's mind, my brain doesn't work in a way I can rephrase it so that it will please them.
It's like the point of socionics, different ways to interprete informations and what input and output ones prefer, how they clash or compliment one other. None is supposed to be better than an other, but some people believe in their rightfulness to ask people for what they want as if anyone and everyone can and must provide it whenever probed. I really hate those moments when asked for stuff I can't provide and I see no way to smooth the situation over.
Wrost is when they miss the point and ask for details they could just google and be done with in 10-15 minutes.
There's also the part where I know my explaination run the risk of rubbing someone the wrong way. All possibilities sucks and are fairly worthless so why bother? but looking away is also not a great path. It's all shitty for everyone involved and idk what to do about it.
Also, consider I'm still very angry at Fe from peeps in the past and it shows.
ILIs usually pride themselves on self-control but their emotional states often depend on how they fit in with or are treated by others. In high spirits, some can be overly exuberant and somewhat intrusive although they tend to frown upon others who have boisterous and invasive personalities. Many seem to be suspicious of such expressions from strangers or those they deliberately keep at a distance but they often try to evoke positive emotions from friends by telling jokes or recounting amusing situations. I seem to get along best with ILIs who can remain deadpan except for the occasional knowing twinkle in their eyes but these are rare.
a.k.a. I/O