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Originally Posted by
ifmd95
So do I waffle endlessly or do I make it fit at all costs?
Yes, both.
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How about we just stick to the points? If you had done that instead of telling me my own motives, there would be at least one less point to argue.
Then make your points clearer with less waffling. The fact that you do not suggests you are not sure of your points, although I'm reasonably sure that isn't the case. It's perhaps more suggestive of some Ti type, maybe even attached with N, but thats another conversation.
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Fair enough. This could have been stated a post earlier though.
It was, at least pretty much.
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I meant these as two separate possible motivations. The wife as one thing. Then secondly, maybe the increased celebrity these deals feeds his DS function.
You have failed to explain to me why this is Fe dual seeking.
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Admittedly, my homework is limited to what Ive briefly heard on TV and a few summaries like Wikipedia. But the most significant deals Im seeing occurred in the 2000s, years after he met the wife. So maybe he gets into small deals for pretty leisurely reasons and follows the wifes lead into bigger things.
Of course, he simply cashed in on his increased stature as a footballer, and the extra publicity from dating a pop star. He was cashing in on what he had before then. This is standard for all soccer players. It is not exclusive to him. You are going on about something every European soccer player does. Perhaps then they are all Fe dual seeking or whatever it is you somehow attach to this.
Yes.
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But some types more so than others. ISFps in particular, having ignored Te and Se, might be expected to forgo wealth for relaxation. If Beckham were obviously wealth-seeking significantly against his comfort elsewhere, that would cast some doubt on alpha values and especially the ISFp.
People work to put food on their table and keep a roof over their heads. People therefore need to earn money in order to have the things they need to relax. The fact is footballers earn more, but over a shorter period, and as most have a shelf life, they know they have to take it while it's going.
His wife is far more interested in doing what she does to be a success and admired than he is. It is clear she is the more Se type, using this approach.
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The users Rocky and Gilly seem to have reached that conclusion pretty independently of each other. As a search will reveal, Rocky is pretty seasoned at typing athletes. and Gilly made a lengthy [and imo cogent] post on his observations of Si/Se in athletics where Gretzky he discussed. I also concluded this independently myself.
Thats fine, but it still doesn't really relate to Beckhams overal persona, and that INFp still remains the best fit.
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If an INFp can indulge in some Si things (like idiosyncrasies about shoes) then maybe an ISFp with Ni as their role function could easily communicate some general vision of things. First and foremost he was a sportsman though.
No it is not. It is a well known fact that INFp's are asthetically pleasing. It is actually uncomfortable for one to use their role function like Beckham must be doing for years. Especially when you take into account that the best interviews with him occur post match, when he is tired and perhaps on the defensive after loosing a match. In these circumstances people always revert to their dominant function, and it's often here we get a better idea what he's about.
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The bolded I can accept that correction. Occasionally, that may be problematic if the ISTps ethics conflict with the organizations. Otherwise, I still think youre ignoring how ones own drumbeat can help the team out a lot in the right circumstances.
Maybe, but you need to have a pretty understanding manager for that to occur (and understanding colleagues), as managers want to be the managers. They are paying the wages. You must be the one to accommodate them doing their job.
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Well why cant Beckham have similar professional standards for himself? Or maybe hes not so comfortable dealing with the stage and camera (i bet ethical functions may be just as if not more important than sensing for confidence on camera.)
It is less likely, as it is the English medias intention to put people under pressure. Interviewing someone after a football match when he hasn't even changed, is much more that scenario than a pre-planned studio, nice suit and relaxed, perhaps even pre-planned questions, as I touched on earlier in this post.
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It was an anecdote. When pressed, I gave yet another anecdote. Mostly to illustrate how this sort of thing might play out. More importantly -- before that, I gave a functional explanation of why creative Se may be more subdued that itself is the bread and butter of my argument.
Ok. Nonetheless you did ask the question. I'm a little suprised then as to why.
In general, creative Se is less subdued than dominant Se, it is also more clumsy. Either way one or two people are irrelevant if you wish to be accurate, which I'm sure we agree on. It is not good practice to compare to a handful of people. If you new of scores of people of the same type, and they were correctly typed, then it would have more weight.
More importantly, if you are giving him a 'Ti' sub-type, why does he demonstrate poor Ti for instance?
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I thought ISTj was more likely than most other types and so I wanted to keep the door open and see what more discussion might uncover. As it happens, I think ISFp now, although less so because of the discussion and more so because of watching a few more interviews. He really frequently lets the wife handle most things Se, an imbalance even greater than what Id expect in mirrors. (though Im not convinced its weak Se yet so maybe the 7th function.) and Im not hearing much Ti out of him either.
It's a bit of a running joke in the UK that his logic is poor.
Re seventh function Se in ISFp, if memory serves, 'it' enjoys the physical confrontation, and I have to say from watching him play soccer, he's one of the least physically confrontational player I know.
He's often been not as fit as many of the other players-often demonstrated by not being as fast a runner and tiring easier. He has to watch his fitness does not slack off too much. That may be genetic of course, or it may be related to weak S. He has proved sometimes he can be fitter, so he has shown he's genetically capable ... He struggles to maintain it - it gone up and down in the past.
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I think celebrity typings should not be used in vacuo but are nonetheless important. because short of meeting with proper socionists in person and typing people together, there is a lot of information you cant get out of a theory or a type description that you can out of celebrity multimedia.
Thing about decent type descriptions tho, is their formed by socionists with the correct credentials, from their personal interaction with at least hundreds of people, just as Ashura developed her interpretation of functions and socionics, from interviewing hundreds of people.
We seem to be in agreement that the room for error in typing a celebrity is greater than those we have met, or at least someone we can interview ourselves.
So unless or until we have met hundreds or thousands of people, I think the is empirical data of the good type descriptions must be at least, if not more reliable.
