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Originally Posted by Chae
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Originally Posted by Chae
Arrogance can come with all 9 types:Quote:
Originally Posted by MaviTilki
1 is morally arrogant
2 is arrogant about their position of nurture
3 is arrogant about their achievment/ skill - side note: most arrogant type
4 is arrogant about being different
5 is intellectually arrogant
6 is arrogant in (being prepared to) countering threats
7 is arrogant about materialistic pursuits
8 is arrogant about power
9 is arrogant in their passive aggression
Inner peace is 9, assuredness usually comes with 8/cp6/3. Yes, you described 6 again. 6 is commonly encountered after 4 and 9 as a main type.
Hmm interesting.. I edited my first message (but you alread answered hehe) after reading through the E6 description. The thing is I am quite a smart ass, so intellectual arrogance might be part of me too. But yeah.. I will read through a few more descriptions of E6!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Cool, keep my up to date when you resonated with something! <3Quote:
Originally Posted by MaviTilki
Your argument is very persuasive. ;) On the outside I can definitely see how this works. However, I'm sure if you got to know me more you'd think at least 4 wing. I'm a moody bitch and and do feel deficient at times and it does come out occasionally even if I'm good at keeping it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Just affirms my point for counterphobic 6. Anti-rules, anti-authority, on guard, distrust, assumes bad intent, getting yourself in stupid situations, avoidance - perfect, you delivered all key words.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaviTilki
It's better right than persuasive :lol: Alright, hm... let's see. You're moody and feeling deficient because of what? I'm a 3w4 so I can speak for myself - I feel that I was born "wrong" or not good enough so I have to make up for it. And that's 4's typical "suffering". Keeping it in is really difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by handjob
niffer: so/sp. hilarious that she types sx/sp :lol:
@Slugabed I saw you changing up concerning your tritype :oops: :thumbsup: Need help with the heart triad?
Ohhhh! Definitely worth a thought. Yes I can see it. Contraflow So, mhm mhh... How did the SX/SP typing come to be? People rather get the second instinct wrong but this one would be a 180° change :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
Although you typed her as SO/SX beforehand. What made you change your mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
@Chae
LOL yeah it would be great!
I feel like I cant truly identify with none of them. :oops:
Cool! Now, why is that so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
(Experience-wise, people who can't identify with the heart types at all are usually 3, 3 is least in touch with all that feely stuff and is highly adaptable. Or 4 when we talk self-definition, since 4 is identity itself.)
Vengeance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
...Although you're the Psychologist, so you'll see soon for yourself.
#InstinctRevenge2k17Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyrd
Hard to tell for me, honestly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Maybe I'm just quite balanced on that point or maybe I'm just guts and brain or idk.
Talking about fears and motivations on heart types its really hard for me to feel identified…on 2, I've felt unloved and I don't care so much if ppl love me(ppl in general) or not, also I really don't care if they think that I'm a bad person or something, I just care for doing or treating others as human beings, what they feel its not of my business as long as I do know that I'm doing right. Also I care If I'm welcome or not, but its not like it hurts me if I dont feel welcome...I just dont stay when I dont feel welcome, I still holding feelings and being nice with these ppl if they are important, but I just leave if I can. I do care too for ppl treating me well...I mean, not being jerks with me and else (because I wont stand jerkness on ppl in general...just with my SO maybe because otherwise could be so much work).
On 3 well… its really hard to feel worthless or something like that, it doesnt have a weigh for me really in my life...I mean, I dont think that I've ever experienced a desire or need for it and its really hard that others can hurt my self esteem. I think that every person has an inherent dignity and its not something that one should "win"…if ppl think that I'm unworthy its like lol for me, I don't care what others think, I just care if I think that I'm good or bad on my own standards and if I'm satisfied with my own achievements. I don't need to be praised but compliments (when they are true) can be pleasant.
On 4, well…how is not having an identity? I cant imagine how it is. Same with significance, I just cant understand what does it mean. I just feel identified with 4 on that I like art. I really don't feel envy and I hate drama, problems should be overcome, and there are always solutions just ppl need to find the way to fix, there is no point on drama or grumble.
Of what I like on heart matters well...I think it goes from that quality time, sex/physical touch and gifts/spending money on me. I think thats the most important for me.
How does it look?
E3
3>2>4. Worthlessness is partly connected to e2 not e3, other than that you excluded 4 completely so it's pretty clear. 3w2 is the heart fix :yup: Side note: What was striking is that you used a lot of enneagram 1 in this as well, with doing things right, standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
What are the fears and motivations that you consider for 3 and 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
enneagram institute says this:
On 3
- Basic Fear: Of being worthless
- Basic Desire: To feel valuable and worthwhile
- Enneagram Three with a Two-Wing: "The Charmer"
- Enneagram Three with a Four-Wing: "The Professional"
On 2
- Basic Fear: Of being unwanted, unworthy of being loved
- Basic Desire: To feel loved
- Enneagram Two with a One-Wing: "Servant"
- Enneagram Two with a Three-Wing: "The Host/Hostess"
Considering enneagram institute definitions, probably I'd go for 2w1, I like to help ppl and make valuable contributions more than being a charmer guess. And I'm always "serving" ppl on my daily life...I mean, doing stuff for others. That makes me somehow happy, guess. I think that investing ones life on others can be significant. I admire ppl who give their life for others.
The Fauvres distinguished it more, 3's main concern is fear of not being effective. They "do" to circumvent it, replacing just "being" with this. So the institute definitions for 3 and 2 are all e2. Enneagram 3 is not the charmer, but the achiever. If they charm, it's hollow, only aimed at success. Us threes calculate over actually loving; that's why we are least connected to heart matters behind our image. A 2 charms genuinely to feel needed by others, making themselves worthwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
I'll redefine it:
On 3
Basic Fear: Not fulfilling a task
Basic Desire: To meet their goals, not matter what it takes
In other words, 3 can do with being unloved as long as they get what they want. Even haters fuel them because they get credit for their actions. 2 could never bear this. Ahhh - ok, from this perspective, valuable contributions + admiring sacrifice (Mother Theresa is a 2w1) is in fact a 2 thing :yup: Eureka! That's why it makes sense that I saw enneagram 1 stuff going on.
Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Something worthy for me is something useful...a task deserve to be achieved if the result is useful for someone. On that sense what I do must be effective, always... thats the objective of "serve" for me, guess. I dont like to help ppl for they depending on me...actually is quite annoying when I discover that my freedom is caught because ppl is depending on me solving their tasks. And of course the expectation of others loving me for helping them is just an illusion...ppl is ungrateful most of the times, so waiting for something its in vain. One should serve because one feels good doing it and because its the right thing to do (I feel bad if I can help someone that really needs it and I dont).
Yes, e3 is called the achiever on enneagram institute, but 3w2 its called the charmer (check out the link).
Which someone do you mean? 3 usually achieves due to their own set of rules that they internalized from early demands to them. 1 is quite similar expect that they challenge their own values over and over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
@Chae
Its on blue letters on the other post, but here you are:
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-3
I edited the last post and explain myself more, guess (sorry I edit a lot).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Ah…thats right! That fits with the 3s that I know irl.
On my case, I'm the last child so no one was demanding anything from me. I set my own set of rules and values from living my life and from dealing with my own needs and the chaotic environment (survival). I don't challenge my values, Its more like I "must" fulfill them, this is were right and wrong and helping others and considering others needs and suffering play a role.
But yeah, after all I think that I'm 2w1…actually that makes sense since I was thinking like I was just guts and logic/common sense/need for information, and the heart part fits when I care for others and my own values/rules... but I dont discard 3w2 completely (because I'm lost on heart stuff tbh) but I dont see where I can grip on 3 right now, even I could be 2w3 at this rate ... I think I'll go to read some of 3 and 2 and their wings.
Thank u.:love:
And I edited again, sorry.
@Chae
I've found this...
but I feel quite identified with parts from both.
Also I read that 9 can show 3 traits/style sometimes... What do you think of it? I hate enneagram sometimes, so confusing. :lol:
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
Now that sounds very 2 +1 again. 3 (or 8) is usually the first among siblings who is expected to get everything done, to be independent, to handle the lack of experience from parents and their more vigilant education. The following siblings have roles like 6 or 2.
Helping, values - exactly. You're lost on the expressive heart stuff because of :Fe: PoLR :lol: As in your next post, of course 9 integrates 3 under positive circumstances. The 2-wing can be explained by the childhood scenario as well, what did your environment demand? For you to perform well or for you to do what is right? As far as your account goes, doing what is right is more the case since you talk about mastering chaos.
Regarding Bled further up: 4 disintegrates to 2, so with other factors that can manifest as trying to make everyone like him in a 2-ish way. Not saying that that is the case, but it's possible.
Yeah, of course :Fe: PoLR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chae
Guess to do what was right, no one was paying attention to my perform actually. :lol:
But personally I like to perform well in the stuff that I like, it means that I need to be satisfied with my perform and others reward could help me to assurance of it.
The descriptions of 2w1 and 2w3 above are good, and I think that I kinda fit both… I know that I'm 2 because I like to help and love others (being pampered is pleasant sometimes lol). Maybe you should help me clarify with the 3 motivations a little bit more.
On 2w3 description above, I fit in that I don't care for being at the spotlight, (I even wanted to be a rockstar when younger, lol), but…I really don't think that recognition or fame is a goal for me… of course its appealing to the ego, but probably its more a mean for achieving stuff (material, comfort, peace, need for expression etc), guess. Then I discovered that most of famous ppl were really unhappy and with overly complicated lifestyles so I stopped wanting that life and pursuing in that direction. lol
For me success would be a path like peace-->power=knwoledge-->love (having someone to love).
And on 2w1 its all what I've told about doing right and else, and I admire the ppl self sacrificing.
Hey @Wyrd, what do you think? 2w1 or 2w3?
2w3 > 2w1. E1 is basically the type of restraint (often excessive) and I don't think I see much of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
Adam Strange: 9
You're batting 1000, Ghost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
People generally have a misconception about 9s, that they are more peaceful than the other types. This is not true. 9s have a fucking storm inside of them and a good friend of mine (whose a 9) calls 9 the angriest type, because they have so much emotion build up inside that , because of their typology, feel as they can't express it>feels as if they arent being seen> and it transforms into anger, that they repress, which causes even more anger. Their way of aggression is through stubbornness, a passive way of doing aggression.. and of course their anger leaks out sometimes. I have a 9w1 father and he takes out repressed anger at home, sometimes at silly things, and when I was younger and before I knew about enneagram I used to say he has anger issues. Well technically he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglass
This is a reason 9s mistype as 8 but also 4.
Not arguing for your type, btw, just against that 9s are peaceful (on the inside).
Attachment 10059
"People" don't type you as E9, just Ghost, although Ghost is responsible for enough forum activity to be mistaken for "people". If you don't try to be at peace with everyone and yourself all the time, you're not a 9. Next question.Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglass
@willowglass I specifically put in my post that "im not arguing for your type", so again, Wyrd is putting words in other peoples mouths, sigh. I typed Wyrd as having a 9 fix so shes upset about that, because she doesnt like the type 9 because she sees herself in it.
For 9s they dont just feel like they cant express their anger, they feel like they can't stick out and have "too strong" feelings and opinions, because that can possibly scare people off, and a 9s fear is disconnection from people. They just want to melt in with the world and others (but also hates this because they feel like they arent being seen, and they get angry about that etcetc)
No one does.Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglass
@willowglass
i think the advice on each type enneagraminstitute.com has helps with typing yourself. just see what hits the hardest.
9:
Quote:
Personal Growth Recommendations
for Enneagram Type Nines
- It is worth examining your type's tendency to go along with others, doing what they want to keep the peace and be nice. Will constantly acquiescing to the wishes of others provide the kind of relationships that will really satisfy you? Remember, it is impossible to love others if you are not truly present to them. This means that you have to be yourself, that you (paradoxically) have to be independent so that you can really be there for others when they need you.
- Exert yourself. Force yourself to pay attention to what is going on. Do not drift off or tune out people, or daydream. Work on focusing your attention to become an active participant in the world around you. Try to become more mentally and emotionally engaged.
- Recognize that you also have aggressions, anxieties, and other feelings that you must deal with. Negative feelings and impulses are a part of you and they affect you emotionally and physically whether or not you acknowledge them. Furthermore, your negative emotions are often expressed inadvertently and get in the way of the peace and harmony you want in your relationships. It is best to get things out in the open first, at least by allowing yourself to become aware of your feelings.
- Although this will be very painful for you, if your marriage has ended in divorce or if you are having problems with your children, you must honestly examine how you have contributed to these problems. Examining troubled relationships will be extremely difficult because the people involved have been close to your heart. The feelings you have for others endow you with much of your identity and self-esteem. But if you really love others, you can do no less than examine the role you have played in whatever conflicts that have arisen. In the last analysis, the choice is simple: you must sacrifice your peace of mind (in the short run) for the satisfaction of genuine relationships (in the long run.)
- Exercise frequently to become more aware of your body and emotions. (Some Nines run around doing errands and think that they are getting enough exercise.) Regular exercise is a healthy form of self-discipline and will increase your awareness of your feelings and other sensations. Developing body-awareness will help teach you to concentrate and focus your attention in other areas of your life as well. Exercise is also a good way to get in touch with and express some aggressions.
To be at peace doesnt mean to be friendly. I know more "friendly" 4s than 9s actually, but that "friendly" 4s arent really peaceful ppl on the inside , sometimes its just a facade(they dont care for peace in reality, they care for other stuff like being significant and whatever that means -Im not 4, but 4s should know:lol:). But I think that being significative or important has something to do with being friendly for some 4s. It all depends on needs and motivations. Also this: 4s are heart types, 9s are instinctive types, we act for insctint (preservation, survival) 4s for heart matters. That's why 9s are prone to anger as a primarily instinctive response.Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglass
Wyrd has a point there, 2w3 > 2w1 as well in this piece you've written :yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugabed
On top of the other comments, I'm interested in the worked up part. Why does that happen? It could tell us a lot about core mechanisms. What gets you worked up can point at the core fear very often, like me who loses it/mobilizes everything when I sense that my (self-)image is under threat --> 3w4.Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglass
Ok, I'm condensing this, so many key words: Yes- that boils down to 4. Very accurately, actually. The last two paragraphs are poster examples how the core fear - highlighted in red above - manifests (I know it as well, my 4-wing is well-aquainted about feeling out of place, flawed, without ability for self-definition). Now it aligns, getting worked up is connected to 4's discontent, emotionality and need to retreat - "spend a lot of time thinking". Probably a 5-wing that does not seek acclaim like a 3, but steps back and analyzes. Note the second paragraph: a 5 dislikes intrusion and integrates the angry 8 to get out of this state.Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglass
Also, heart type: interpersonal, love- and feeling-based, focus on identity in contrast to others :yup: