SLEs/ESTps: The Conquered vs. The Loved

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Originally Posted by hkkmr

EXTps are pretty deliberate... not always misleading.

And Suomea, stop giving everything up... :D

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Is suoemea a guy or a girl?

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Originally Posted by mercutio

Sumo guy .. I'm not talking about ESTp's. I'm asking about you. WOULD YOU ??

It's a matter of perspective. Sometimes peoples perceptions can be a bit narrow. And they make with what they have - until it's not there any more. And then they find something else.

If it's really that bad on other people, then you'd think that they'd have a problem with it.

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Well if it's not about ESTps then it's really not relevant to the discussion at hand at all.... gotcha. : )

I do understand that it's none of my business if other people don't care, and that's why I never make it my business unless people care. When people are being intentional assholes to others I normally make it my business only if the person gets hurt by it. I can see our discussion really isn't getting anywhere and you really aren't making any logical arguments at all hehe.

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Originally Posted by mercutio

o/~
Ya get nothin' for nothin'
If that's what ya do
Turn around bitch I got a use for you
Besides you ain't got nothin' better to do
And I'm bored
o/~

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Now you really are just being an idiot again.....: )

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Originally Posted by zenbrat

I'm not trying to be contrary but... the most horrendously deceitful ruse I've ever been subjected to was executed by an ENTp. It was absolutely unbelievable. Not once did he admit the least bit of fault (or muster any semblence of an apology) for devastating several people's lives to satisfy a purely selfish agenda. He justified it to the end... and vehemently continued to deny it when I confronted him with proof.

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I'm sorry to hear that.....

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Originally Posted by Suomea

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Originally Posted by zenbrat

I'm not trying to be contrary but... the most horrendously deceitful ruse I've ever been subjected to was executed by an ENTp. It was absolutely unbelievable. Not once did he admit the least bit of fault (or muster any semblence of an apology) for devastating several people's lives to satisfy a purely selfish agenda. He justified it to the end... and vehemently continued to deny it when I confronted him with proof.

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I'm sorry to hear that.....

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Thanks. Things happen. Against my better judgment, I let him live.

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Type and the hidden agenda
by Sergei Ganin

Every person has a hidden agenda. This agenda often governs one's intentions and behaviour. People are often unaware of its origin, but can always feel its significance. Some people are more affected by it than other people. Every type requires an optimal condition in which it can function properly. If such condition does not exist, a person will normally attempt to create it. However, due to the nature of the hidden agenda, if and when the optimal condition is reached, the person will occasionally put themselves in a situation where the stability of this condition is threatened.

There are eight such agendas/optimal conditions:

ENTp, ESTp => to be loved

http://www.socionics.com/articles/hiddena.htm

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This might explain the ESTp's 'romantic' behavior: one's hidden agenda can be self-defeating.

In another thread, Jessica mentioned that too much bliss in a relationship would lead her to believe that something is wrong. If one becomes comfortably familiar with the 'look and feel' of less than optimal conditions, would optimal conditions then create anxiety? Isn't it typical for a person to do everything within their power to remove the source of anxiety?

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Originally Posted by zenbrat

This might explain the ESTp's 'romantic' behavior: one's hidden agenda can be self-defeating.

In another thread, Jessica mentioned that too much bliss in a relationship would lead her to believe that something is wrong. If one becomes comfortably familiar with the 'look and feel' of less than optimal conditions, would optimal conditions then create anxiety? Isn't it typical for a person to do everything within their power to remove the source of anxiety?

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I identify with this too in a way. While I am quite romantic in many ways there is still some thing in me that wants more fire than a consistently placid relationship offers. So even in duality I want there to be some spiciness, some drama from time to time. I guess this is just part of the dynamic of Beta romance, no?

Hm. I rather like this thread. People should dredge up more old threads like this. And people should comment on them.

Personally, I think it's sort of obvious when you're 'in' with an SLE or not. It's tough to gauge exactly how 'in' you are, but you can sort of get a vibe about it. I think it really is about how much attention you get relative to other possible attention-getters.

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Originally Posted by silverchris9

Hm. I rather like this thread. People should dredge up more old threads like this. And people should comment on them.

Personally, I think it's sort of obvious when you're 'in' with an SLE or not. It's tough to gauge exactly how 'in' you are, but you can sort of get a vibe about it. I think it really is about how much attention you get relative to other possible attention-getters.

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:)

Yes I agree. It seems like if an SLE is paying you special attention and going out of their way to spend time with you, its pretty clear they like you. They dont seem shy about that or about initiating physical contact. Can anyone tell me, are they shy with emotional contact? Seems like Fi PoLR might make them hesitant to venture to make their emotions vulnerable, but maybe their Se overpowers this.

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Originally Posted by zenbrat

ESTp's thread reminded me of this dynamic with the type...

Some ESTp's bore easily, but rarely let go of the people they have pursued and conquered (thereby getting their hidden agenda satisfied). How would "The Conquered" know if the ESTp experiences an emotional connection to the person, or if they are keeping the person around as just another convenient source of 'love'?

Strangely, they often act more enamored with their random :Fe: sources than they do with the people they truly care about. This tends to push the 'important' people away because they misinterpret the ESTp's emotional connection - they may feel like "(s)he [ESTp] likes that other person more than me".... which, again, may be completely untrue.

And... why do they do this? How can "The Loved" be sure of their dominant place in the ESTp's life? What are the signs?

Or am I way off base here?

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I got a very different impression from this one SLE woman. She protects the people who are close to her but she's abrasive or suspicious towards those who are hostile or unknown to her. She doesn't get enamored with "random Fe sources" but is rather suspicious of random people trying to get on her good side (vulnerable Fi).

= I care about you vs you don't mean anything to me, it can't be both

This was an interesting thread its good to dig up this discussion again.

Aggressors can seem like conquers because they tend to see someone they want and they want to "have" them. This kind of falls apart when you're talking about women because they have different social expectations.

Se types see things as us vs them because Se types see things as a struggle. The world is a contest, filled with competitors. In this Se world, you can't do things on your own, so you need a team you can trust.

I don't think Se types are more likely to cheat or play the field. I think alpha SFs could be the most likely ones to play love games but that's probably not fair to say either.

Beta NFs will likely know when their ST isn't interested or is losing interest. This depends on the relationship as to how they would know, how they lost interest, and what would be done about it.

I think Beta NFs can be as fickle as STs though.

Beta NFs will control the relationship and can be pretty possessive themselves. I saw earlier in the thread someone said they can get very jealous and competitive with other IEIs around.

Beta NFs will likely verbalize this jealousy more often than a Fi type who could stew about it later and then eventually want to end everything after thinking the SLE doesn't actually care about them.

SLEs and LSI as well can see Fi types as a minefield, they never know what is going to set them off.

In platonic friendships, this has happened more than in romantic relationships.

I remember a girl SEI and a guy ILE at my work were the first people on this new team that had been implemented within the company. Once new members began to come on board (me included) the team grew from two people to 5.

A new girl (likely ESI imo) came on board and it was obvious that this guy had a crush on her. He would insist on being the one to train her on everything, no one else wanted to do it so he got to.

One day I came into the office and the ILE and ESI were giggling about something the SEI asked what they were laughing at and the ILE said he can't tell her.

The SEI asked why and he answered that he doesn't know how she would react to it, it's not work appropriate, she would be offended.

SEI says "are you serious? We've been working together for a long time (in other words "longer than you've known her") and you won't just show me the picture"

He never showed the picture. What an idiot. The ESI was so not into him. ILE was an insufferable asshole anyway, he thought he was the smartest person in the room.

Anyway, that's the sort of thing SLEs wouldn't understand, NFs would make this very upfront since Fe likes more overt displays of affection and attachment.