Why are my worst types most into me?

I take it back sneg, I couldn't make any sense of what you just wrote. I think you make more sense when you stick to one paragraph or less. :p

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Originally Posted by aut0

I take it back sneg, I couldn't make any sense of what you just wrote. I think you make more sense when you stick to one paragraph or less. :p

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I completely agree. However, if you would like I could condense it to bulletin points?


I decided to go in depth in order to avoid approaching this matter lightheartedly, shallowly, purposefully tried to make a point, give an analysis.

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Originally Posted by snegledmaca

I completely agree. However, if you would like I could condense it to bulletin points?


I decided to go in depth in order to avoid approaching this matter lightheartedly, shallowly, purposefully tried to make a point, give an analysis.

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No, I read it just fine. It just doesn't make sense. I know you pointed out that you weren't confident that she was LSI (or at least put some sort of disclaimer about taking you at face value), but I would guess that an LSI would be a lot more confident (more stubborn, and less apologetic) than Minde was in this thread, if they were in fact using their ego functions.

Yes. I'm not actually certain of her being LSI, just that I'm seeing :Se: and :Ti:. To be honest I said LSI because she seems like an introvert. And I'm confused by what I'm seeing, or better said, interpreting because much like to you it doesn't make too much sense to me. That's why I said I think I'm somehow terribly wrong but just don't know how.

Well, I think it would make sense if she was using her role function, because I think that's something we all rely on when we're trying to "improve ourselves", since we know we aren't good at it. I can use a lot of :Fe: on the forums here, but in real life you'll be hard pressed to find me act like that because I know I'm bad at it. I think generally when you're feeling like you're trying too hard, or come off as trying too hard, you're probably using your role. I mean that'd make sense if you think about ENFp/ENTp guys trying to act tough, they're putting emphasis on :Se:, ESTj/ENTj trying too hard to act cool would be placing emphasis on :Fe:, etc.

That seems like it makes sense to me, I could be wrong though.

I have not once seen myself place any emphasis on :Si:, however I'm not entirely certain of my type. You could be right, when I read the description of EII-s role I immediately thought of how she acted here as it describes my impression nicely. However I'm not entirely convinced. I guess what I'm really doing is exploring a hunch. And, personally, if what I say doesn't make much sense it probably doesn't. No matter how much wrapping I add to it, or the conviction I present it with.

Hey, an interesting idea just popped into my head, if you are correct, and when one tries to hard one is indeed using their role, what about my analysis? Seems like overly complex, too in-depth, doesn't make much sense, like I'm trying to hard? And yet :Ti: is not my role. A possible invalidation of your assumption.

You could be right, but it didn't seem that way. I mean, to me, you didn't make sense, but you weren't focusing on non-essentials like I thought Minde was doing. Hah, this could get confusing. I mean, can you think of an example of when you knew you were trying too hard?

Oh, you know, the trying too hard thing is flawed. How would you try too hard with :Si: in public? It makes sense if you're trying too hard when you're around other people, but it doesn't make sense for people with roles that don't necessarily involve other people. I could think of my IEI roommate overusing his role as him being a complete slob and over eating greasy food on a daily basis, but then that's also 99% of the U.S. population. Eh, this isn't worth going into detail with.

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Originally Posted by snegledmaca

of abstinence because such an approach never lead to sex he "wised up" and embraced the :Se: approach of treating women as objects, pieces of meat, something to own and so on and not only does he have no problems it's working like a charm. He's currently dating several women for a short while with nothing serious in mind like before and is rotating them, getting a new one, every so often. I think he realized that women are as inserted in sex as he is and if he wants it he has to go-and-get-it.
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I think thats one thing with ENFp's, they can expect women to come to them. Its a good thing to realise that unless they are really hot its rarely going to happen. Yeah ENFp's fear power struggles a bit i think. Well i do. We are a little paranoid that people are trying to bring us down. I tend to walk around with my pretend Se, use sharp motions trying to act confident. I dont like it much. Ive never actually tried to act physically tough though. I learnt from fighting that 6ft 4 buff dude = your probablly dead even if they are unco.

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Originally Posted by snegledmaca

Hey, an interesting idea just popped into my head, if you are correct, and when one tries to hard one is indeed using their role, what about my analysis? Seems like overly complex, too in-depth, doesn't make much sense, like I'm trying to hard? And yet is not my role.

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I suppose if you're an INFp you still have weakish Ti which would explain it. I think this is an idea that i have been enteratining. Role function as the try hard function. When i read the forum description though its basically the opposite:

"Your role function never wants to stand out. You always try to go with the normal social behavior in this function, because you are unsure of it".

I suppose it is a producing function so you notice it. We need someone who knows their stuff to explain it all. Ive seen my INFp friend talk about cleaning quite a lot lol. Ive also seen an ESTj get embarassed because his emails to everyone were far too boring and dry. So he tried to insert excitement into them and it only kind of half worked.

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Originally Posted by meatburger

I think thats one thing with ENFp's, they can expect women to come to them. Its a good thing to realise that unless they are really hot its rarely going to happen. Yeah ENFp's fear power struggles a bit i think. Well i do. We are a little paranoid that people are trying to bring us down. I tend to walk around with my pretend Se, use sharp motions trying to act confident. I dont like it much. Ive never actually tried to act physically tough though. I learnt from fighting that 6ft 4 buff dude = your probablly dead even if they are unco.



I suppose if you're an INFp you still have weakish Ti which would explain it. I think this is an idea that i have been enteratining. Role function as the try hard function. When i read the forum description though its basically the opposite:

"Your role function never wants to stand out. You always try to go with the normal social behavior in this function, because you are unsure of it".

I suppose it is a producing function so you notice it. We need someone who knows their stuff to explain it all. Ive seen my INFp friend talk about cleaning quite a lot lol. Ive also seen an ESTj get embarassed because his emails to everyone were far too boring and dry. So he tried to insert excitement into them and it only kind of half worked.

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You made a good point, but on the quote, wouldn't that support the idea that you're trying too hard because you're trying too hard to be what you think is "normal"?

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Originally Posted by aut0

You made a good point, but on the quote, wouldn't that support the idea that you're trying too hard because you're trying too hard to be what you think is "normal"?

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yep. I thought that too. Its a funny idea though, normal. I mean the types are spread out kind of evenly so theres no real normal. Its in the eye of the beholder :)

which brings me to the question "what makes you THINK what normal is". The role function? :)

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Originally Posted by meatburger

yep. I thought that too. Its a funny idea though, normal. I mean the types are spread out kind of evenly so theres no real normal. Its in the eye of the beholder :)

which brings me to the question "what makes you THINK what normal is". The role function? :)

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I think that it's knowing that you're bad at something, and seeing someone else be good at it, thinking that the person who's good at it is something like a "standard" that you need to measure yourself up to.

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Originally Posted by aut0

I think that it's knowing that you're bad at something, and seeing someone else be good at it, thinking that the person who's good at it is something like a "standard" that you need to measure yourself up to.

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Yep works for me. I definately admire my ISTj dads toughness. Like the other day this person in his apartment block questioned some rubbish in his car park. I was like "hehe oh here we go". It was really funny seeing him use Se on this guy. It wasn't my dads fault he was getting a bin in, the dude was being a wanker. Or at a sports event, with my friends ESTp brother. Was really enjoyable for me to watch him telling some people to get out of our seats.

I suppose i would watch like Stephan Segal movies and watch him bash up like 5 guys and kind of wish that was me. =)
I mean a few days ago i saw this guy pissing outside in my parents apartment block garden and i really wanted to say something but i let it go.

It gets to be annoying really fast though. I mean, I know I suck at it, I don't want to be reminded of it 24/7.

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Originally Posted by snegledmaca

Gah, why are you listening to me in the first place.

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Because you like talking. While I may not understand or even thoroughly read all of it, I'm guessing it's therapeutic, in a way, for you to express your thoughts aloud with the possibility of the listener(s) correcting and straightening you out.

However, I don't think I can be that one. Unless you ask me a specific question, I think trying to reply to you, particularly point by point, would put me in the same mess that started this analysis.

I, in fact, do not mind your analysis at all so long as you continue realizing that you quite possibly are completely wrong and also so long as you don't expect me to respond in kind.

...
I will say one thing - I think you have some of your functions mixed up.

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Originally Posted by aut0

Well, I think it would make sense if she was using her role function, because I think that's something we all rely on when we're trying to "improve ourselves", since we know we aren't good at it. I can use a lot of on the forums here, but in real life you'll be hard pressed to find me act like that because I know I'm bad at it. I think generally when you're feeling like you're trying too hard, or come off as trying too hard, you're probably using your role. I mean that'd make sense if you think about ENFp/ENTp guys trying to act tough, they're putting emphasis on , ESTj/ENTj trying too hard to act cool would be placing emphasis on , etc.

That seems like it makes sense to me, I could be wrong though.

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Yes, I agree with you.

See, it does all tie together in the end. We're full circle to where we started.

Everything's connected. It's just really hard to express all of those connections clearly.

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Originally Posted by Minde

Yes, I agree with you.

See, it does all tie together in the end. We're full circle to where we started.

Everything's connected. It's just really hard to express all of those connections clearly.

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And people say Delta likes to avoid issues. :p

k, so I went out w/ the ISTJ tonight. Not sure why I did. He seemed to think i was really quiet. But I think that was just because I knew if I was ENFP-ish then it would be baaad. So I just kinda smiled politely, lol. He talked about taxes and interest rates a lot. I told him we were conflicting types. He seems to think people are "individuals" or something like that. I dunno.

He kept trying to show examples of himself not being "structured" and making fun of people who appeared ISTJ-ish, yet it was glaringly obvious that he was very, very ISTJ-ish.

He probably thinks I'm either INFP-ish or ENFJ-ish. But I'm not! And it will soon be doomed....just wait. I'll update :D

Where, oh where are the deltas?

lol, you seriously talked socionics with a person that doesn't know it... and then told him that you're conflictors and that you probably wouldn't really get along? Sometimes I feel so happy that I don't know socionics. :o

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Originally Posted by jewels

k, so I went out w/ the ISTJ tonight. Not sure why I did. He seemed to think i was really quiet. But I think that was just because I knew if I was ENFP-ish then it would be baaad. So I just kinda smiled politely, lol. He talked about taxes and interest rates a lot....

Where, oh where are the deltas?

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Oh sweet jesus. Talk about boring a girl to tears.

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Originally Posted by cracka

lol, you seriously talked socionics with a person that doesn't know it... and then told him that you're conflictors and that you probably wouldn't really get along? Sometimes I feel so happy that I don't know socionics. :o

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I always talk about personality types on dates. so what? It's not like I give them a questionaire! (most of the time ;) I mean, if you bring up a hobby or interest, people ask you about it. And then you just answer their questions. People usually want to know what the categories are, what their type is, what my type is, if they are compatible, etc. So why are you happy that you don't know socionics? I think it's fun.

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Originally Posted by LokiVanguard

Oh sweet jesus. Talk about boring a girl to tears.

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Seriously! lol

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

I think here Minde behaved like a declarer who was trying to understand things better. She made CLARIFICATIONS, but she didn't really ask anything. She did expect aut0 to reply to those clarifications, but none of those sounded like a question. ISFj is a negativist asker. She didn't sound like that at all.

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Please don't plague this wonderful theory with Reinin, even if it is to justify a perfectly reasonable argument that Minde is NOT an ESI (where's the Se, someone?). They don't work. I am Democratic. And yet if I am SLE, I must be Aristocratic.

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Originally Posted by UDP

Keep in mind that Minde is also E1.

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So what? LSIs can be 1s.

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Originally Posted by LokiVanguard

Oh sweet jesus. Talk about boring a girl to tears.

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Sometimes, when I'm in the mood, I like to serenade a girl with all 100 pages of the Securities & Exchange Commission's annual report.

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Originally Posted by aut0

Sometimes, when I'm in the mood, I like to serenade a girl with all 100 pages of the Securities & Exchange Commission's annual report.

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:lol:

Yeah, personality questions are like a girls weapon to figure out if you suck or not, so it's not really uncommon for jewels or any girl to run ya through a bit. It prevents tragedies like that guy.

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Originally Posted by LokiVanguard

:lol:

Yeah, personality questions are like a girls weapon to figure out if you suck or not, so it's not really uncommon for jewels or any girl to run ya through a bit. It prevents tragedies like that guy.

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"personality questions are like a girls weapon to figure out if you suck or not." What a great quote! I should add this to my inspirational quote list, lol.

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Originally Posted by aut0

Sometimes, when I'm in the mood, I like to serenade a girl with all 100 pages of the Securities & Exchange Commission's annual report.

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LOL

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Originally Posted by aut0

And people say Delta likes to avoid issues. :p

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I don't understand what you mean.

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Originally Posted by Ezra

Please don't plague this wonderful theory with Reinin, even if it is to justify a perfectly reasonable argument that Minde is NOT an ESI (where's the Se, someone?).

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Hmm... Now where did I put it? I just had it...

Ah, here it is -

:Se:

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Originally Posted by Ezra

They don't work. I am Democratic. And yet if I am SLE, I must be Aristocratic.

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Perhaps the problem is less that the dichotomies don't work and more that you do not properly or fully understand them. Personally, I thought Kristiina's input was interesting and helpful.

jewels I think I see what you're getting at but don't think it's merely a problem for ENFps (attracting/being attracted to socionically incompatible types). I've noticed that romantic duality-esque relations are rare amongst younger people. It's almost as if people have been conditioned to believe that relationships are supposed to be 'painful' in a weird way and so are attracted to incompatible people like a moth to a flame... this attraction is in actuality usually just a physical one, which helps the relationship take off quickly but crash land soon after and the intensity of this becomes addictive.

A relation like duality, on the other hand, contradicts this accepted definition of what a relationship actually is as it works in the opposite way. The "sparks" of passion don't come immediately, in fact the beginning is the hardest part of the relationship, but once it's developed it lasts a lot longer. It's more in tune with the 'mature' kind of relationship people begin to seek as they get older and meaning becomes more important.

But I can see how all of this could especially be difficult for ENFps. In my experience ENFps have a certain charm about them that makes almost everyone glance as they pass by, it's as if with merely a look they can unintentionally infect others with their shiny bright Ne that almost forces others to optimistically acknowledge the possibilities at hand... I should know as I've been one of these glancers by in the past, lol. Also opposing quadra NF/NF relations are especially bad for this because "empathy" becomes the new "compatibility", which it actually is not.

Well said Misutii. Most people have no idea thats why marriage is going the way of the dodo.

Its funny i see INFp's in the same way. Seductive little people i get angry at them because they keep attracting me.

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Originally Posted by LokiVanguard

:lol:

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Originally Posted by jewels

LOL

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I share my deepest feelings and all you guys do is laugh at me. :(

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Originally Posted by jewels

I always talk about personality types on dates. so what? It's not like I give them a questionaire! (most of the time ;) I mean, if you bring up a hobby or interest, people ask you about it. And then you just answer their questions. People usually want to know what the categories are, what their type is, what my type is, if they are compatible, etc. So why are you happy that you don't know socionics? I think it's fun.

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I get your point, really I do. At some point you'll have to think though, that it may be just as boring for some people to hear socionics talk as much as you find taxes and interest rates. The real point of my previous post was more about you pointing out that you are conflicting types and that it pretty much wouldn't work out, to me, that's dooming any relationship at all right from the start.:confused:

As far as me being glad I'm not into socionics... If I actually learned and applied it, then it would just be another thing to think of when meeting new people... why add to the already long list of things that I have to measure people up to. I'll stick to: Are they nice, are they interesting or boring, are they as attractive as I'd like, do they seem to like me back, etc... If a person doesn't meet these criteria I'd probably not even want a relationship, much less if I had to try and type them and find out they are a type that I'm not "supposed" to really get along with. I feel it would limit my options in the long run much more than I'd like it to so I stay away from actually learning it. :)

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Originally Posted by cracka

I get your point, really I do. At some point you'll have to think though, that it may be just as boring for some people to hear socionics talk as much as you find taxes and interest rates. The real point of my previous post was more about you pointing out that you are conflicting types and that it pretty much wouldn't work out, to me, that's dooming any relationship at all right from the start.:confused:

As far as me being glad I'm not into socionics... If I actually learned and applied it, then it would just be another thing to think of when meeting new people... why add to the already long list of things that I have to measure people up to. I'll stick to: Are they nice, are they interesting or boring, are they as attractive as I'd like, do they seem to like me back, etc... If a person doesn't meet these criteria I'd probably not even want a relationship, much less if I had to try and type them and find out they are a type that I'm not "supposed" to really get along with. I feel it would limit my options in the long run much more than I'd like it to so I stay away from actually learning it. :)

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Yeah its an age old debate. Is ignorance bliss?

Dooming an incompatible relationship may actually be a good thing. Its incompatible and probablly always will be. Better make sure your pefectly sure about their type though.

I agree about socionics giving you something to think about. It runs in the back of my mind all of the time really (pretty scary). It can make you much more discerning and disconnected from people.

I mean, my friend who doesn't know anying about socionics found his dual at age 18. Has been with her ever since. And heres me mr socionics guru and i cant find a compatible girl to save my life. Maybe thats telling =)

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Originally Posted by meatburger

Yeah its an age old debate. Is ignorance bliss?

Dooming an incompatible relationship may actually be a good thing. Its incompatible and probablly always will be. Better make sure your pefectly sure about their type though.

I agree about socionics giving you something to think about. It runs in the back of my mind all of the time really (pretty scary). It can make you much more discerning and disconnected from people.

I mean, my friend who doesn't know anying about socionics found his dual at age 18. Has been with her ever since. And heres me mr socionics guru and i cant find a compatible girl to save my life. Maybe thats telling =)

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lol same here! the problem with knowledge like this is that it feels like a goddamn responsibility, like now that I'm aware of it, if I choose to ignore it and give in and get into predictably bad relationship and end up hurting someone it's purely due to my own selfish stupidity and I have no one to blame but myself. Like imagine explaining to a girl "well you see none of this surprises me cuz there's this Russian personality system thing that predicted our failure all along..." oops

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Originally Posted by misutii

lol same here! the problem with knowledge like this is that it feels like a goddamn responsibility, like now that I'm aware of it, if I choose to ignore it and give in and get into predictably bad relationship and end up hurting someone it's purely due to my own selfish stupidity and I have no one to blame but myself. Like imagine explaining to a girl "well you see none of this surprises me cuz there's this Russian personality system thing that predicted our failure all along..." oops

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I like the cut of your jib misutii

ah, just met another enfp! I dunno what it is about the enfps. Hopefully this one will be more emotionally available ;) I always get concerned though, that they'll lose interest. Because I know I lose interest fast. But I don't want to play little games. I wonder if the identical thing is ever not doomed to failure?

And yes, I agree that knowing too much can be bad. Though I think that your gut tells you pretty much the same thing as the personality theory does anyway. But with great knowledge, comes great responsibility, j/k lOL.

What's even more depressing is hearing about your friends troubles and knowing what's going on... A friend's in a supervisory relationship and she was just expressing doubts as to whether she and her fiancee should get married because it feels like he's always criticizing her. I love both of them dearly, but... I just can't see how that's gonna work out, because I did the supervisory thing myself, so I know exactly where she's at... And I'm watching an ENTp-ISTp marriage go down the toilet... blah

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Originally Posted by tiny_dancer

What's even more depressing is hearing about your friends troubles and knowing what's going on... A friend's in a supervisory relationship and she was just expressing doubts as to whether she and her fiancee should get married because it feels like he's always criticizing her. I love both of them dearly, but... I just can't see how that's gonna work out, because I did the supervisory thing myself, so I know exactly where she's at... And I'm watching an ENTp-ISTp marriage go down the toilet... blah

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....any relation can go south, it seems. the key is finding one that's good enough, that asks enough of you but not too much, so that you don't mind doing the work required to maintain it.

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Originally Posted by snegledmaca

So in conclusion I'd say that you are LSI. However I am so uncertain in my analysis that I seriously think that somewhere, somehow I've made some terrible, huge mistake and everything I said is rendered invalid because of it, so you shouldn't take anything I say with any conviction or certainty, that is, don't let yourself be convinced by my argument, and perhaps it would been be better if you just dismissed or ignored them, as a preemptive thing, that is, you're EII and I'm just spewing rubbish, over analyzing, reading things that aren't there, seeing only what I want to see, finding facts to support only those argument I desire to be true and dismissing the rest and so on. Gah, why are you listening to me in the first place.

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It is not your fault, Sneg. This forum has so distorted what "Ti" and "Se" are that it isn't funny.

I wonder if people realize how simplistic it has gotten here, it is basically rudimentary MBTI-like methods people are using, particularly in LSIs case. People say, "well I see Se here!", and then assume it is Se dominant. Look, I have been called Se creative and Se polr, it is quite humorous.


It is to a point where, if you have an opinion, and you are somewhat stubborn, then you are LSI. Terrible, terrible socionics practice. Alas, this is the game of the forum.

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Originally Posted by LokiVanguard

Wasn't the type in your sig ESTj like 5 minutes ago??

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She's changing it as a joke on the forum. She isn't ESTj or ISFj.

Ugh. I have to attest to my apparent IEE-magnetism. I don't know what the fuck it is, but I keep attracting them like bees to honey! I mean, IEEs of all types. Really now, the total opposite of what I should be looking for. =[ This is very odd because I do know tons of them, even as friends and they seem to be swarming everywhere meanwhile I can't find any decent male LSIs to even befriend. I have female LSI buddies but that's all. What the hell.