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Yeah, if I were ever transported to medieval Britain I would use my intelligence to manipulate royalty into giving me a lordship. The rest of you would be forced to settle for squirehood.Quote:
Is there any real benefit in having a high intelligence?
Can I be your sex slave? You know, like in the dungeon with chains and whips and . . . . OMG! (Hope the walls are soundproof.)Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
I had the most erotic dream about you today. :oops:
Hey! I'm a beta! It was bound to happen! :wink:
Edited for gayness.
"Genius is talent provided with ideals. Genius starves while talent wears purple and fine linen. The man of genius of today will in fifty years’ time be in most cases no more than a man of talent."
-- Somerset Maugham (1874–1965)
This is the response you knew you would get when you started this thread, Ishy. :D (WARNING: I'll be stating the obvious throughout much of the post.)
Who, precisely, is an intelligent person? While empiricists have tried to pinhole "intelligence" as an affinity towards higher-level mathematic/verbal thought, I always thought of it as a more holistic cognition. The former has no inherent benefit without the discretion of the latter. Why is that? It is because the former is objective, while human society works subjectively.
In our society, who do we subjectively percieve as an intelligent person? What qualities must an individual display before we think to ourselves, "Now that is a bright person?" Is he eloquent? Lucid verbalization of one's intelligence is an impressive trait. A person who is able to express his ideas well will be perceived as more intelligent than one who cannot do so - even if the less outspoken person is objectively of the same intelligence. How many straight facts is he able to bombard you with in a short amount of time? As much as I hate to say it, book smarts impress people, even though they indicate only the ability to retain facts and not objective intelligence. Is he sensitive to the social mores of his environment? We tend to think of those who know precisely what to do, when to do it, and how to pull it off as more intelligent. This is an indication of social grace, but not objective intelligence.
Maugham's quotation deals with the "genius" (the objectively "intelligent") and the "talented" (he who understands the subjective ramifications of objective "genius"). Who is better of? He who has the objective (raw) intelligence or he who knows how to use it? In this society, it is definitely the latter. There have been a myriad of studies correlating estimated income with things like attractiveness, height, gender, affinity for Geometry v. Algebra, computer training, etc. It's the subjectively intelligent (one who can manipulate these factors) who will often come out on top of those with the objective brains.
That said:
"Genius is its own end."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)
As objective intelligence may in fact be objective, it's greatest rewards are subjective. There is a sort of rapture in an epiphany and its aftermath that people like Einstein and Beethoven memorialize in their writings. As Transigent said earlier, these rewards would most likely only be appreciated by the genius himself. (That isn't to say that we lowly normal people don't have our analagous circumstances.)
There is also a dark side of the coin where the aftermath is bitter and ostracizing; we've got plenty of writing on how genius suffers as well. ("Genius is not a generous thing; In return it charges more interest than any amount of royalties can cover" as Jim Carroll writes.) Ironically, it is the suffering with which we are often obsessed with later on. There is something morbidly romantic about the prophetic wisdom of one who was born a few years before his time.
Invalidating the benefit of high intelligence just degrades those with it and implicitly places the "lower"-intelligent people above the "higher"-intelligent people. As was said previously, people with high intelligence are NOT out to look down on everyone else. And often times, having high intelligence is just a natural consequence of these people's lifestyles and capabilities.
Think of their feelings, people, think of their feelings!
No one's invalidating them. In fact, we're sympathizing with them. Those poor highly intelligent souls who have crummy lives and all! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cone
WTF? Wasn't the whole point of people's replies to make everyone feel good about who they are, while knocking the highly-intelligent people down a rung?
Uh... no... in fact, I think a good majority of these posts are from people who think of themselves as the highly intelligent type, among them Ishy, who started the thread. So chill. :lol:
pfft hoo cares how intelligence we r?
although teh best thign abuout being intelligenec is teht u r bett4r them every1 else. liek me 4 exampl3.
lol dum peeple are stupid.
To be in the top 5% of the world does not make you highly intelligent (just above average).Quote:
Once you get up to the top 5% or 1% even, the benifit to having high intellegence has decreasing marginal utility. However, there IS a benifit, and there IS a difference.
People with extreme levels of intellegence have the luxury of being able to be an expert in many fields, and understand many things.
An IQ of 500, as defined by the ratio of mental age over chronological age, is possible to attain as a child...
Statistically speaking, an IQ of 500 on the stanford binet scale corresponds to a standard deviation of well, perhaps 50 or more and this means that you need to score at the top of a few googolplex other test takers (just speculating - but the gaussian distribution curve will no doubt end up with such a brobdingnagen number at a standard deviation of 50!), which is impossible since the earth only has 6.0 billion human beings which yields a maximum of 6.0 billion test takers, which again yields a maximum IQ of around 210 based on the stanford binet scale. Though logically speaking, given the amphibolous nature of the curve, an adult IQ of 210 can correspond to a childhood IQ of 500 or even a thousand even though (I hate this periphrastic circumbendibus!) the expected corresponding value should be around 300 according to a highly reliable and validated study by some notable scientist (check google for more info, I forgot the name).
In layman's term, it is possible to have an IQ of 500, though it is extremely rare.
A stanford binet IQ of 500 will correspond to an extrapolated childhood IQ of a few billion! That's absurd! We therefore use "ratio IQ" for simplicity.. An IQ of 500 really seems impossible to attain for a human being, scientifically and statistically speaking.
My IQ is only 102 and I'm the king and queen of England.
You guys know what? I really hate to say this, but I really pity you all after having read this entire topic - apologies, I lack the mental capacity to not say this. However, I have sufficient mental capacity to not say the rest.
P.S: I hate to tell others what my real IQ is because other people hate it.
Does scoring a perfect SAT score mean that we can logically deduce that the person is at the (150+) zenith (not literally but metaphorically speaking) of Intelligence? I scored a perfect SAT score, but I truly think that it does not correlate to IQ at all... for anyone who prepares for the test enough can score such.... Intelligence does not make me socially inept nor does it mean that they must make some amazing discovery to be considered such.
Yes, of course you can Cone's Mom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
... ha, nice. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
@ Theodosis: What the fuck are you talking about? I never understand you.
Edited for gayness.
"I hate this periphrastic circumbendibus!"
:shock:
Being above average anything is a very lonely place to be.
Wait.... is that Cone's Mom? No way. :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
There is no real benefit. If anything it makes for more trouble than good. What was the point of this thread? To start an argument? I don’t feel that this was a very good idea.
I count your presence here a blessing, for with your beauty you have made us forget our petty squabbles, with your charm made us long for naught but the soothing flow of your voice in song, and with your wit you shine a light into the darkness our hearts, so that in our despair we might glimpse some small release in that otherwordly loviliness that dwells in your heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sycophant
Yeah, that's what I was talking about,Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticSonic
"but the gaussian distribution curve will no doubt end up with such a brobdingnagen number at a standard deviation of 50!"
.. and he's only 16? :shock: Where do you find the time do research all this stuff?
Quote:
Being above average anything is a very lonely place to be.
IQ is no longer that important to me anymore. What's important in how to let humanity realize its ultimate purpose in the universe. I'm so darn fed-up about the complete lack of intellectual stimulation in my life! How good it would be if I'm surrounded by a throng of profoundly gifted individuals with the same agenda and goals - the best thing I can talk to right now is the monitor right in front of me. Guess I will be confined to the eternal damnation of being besieged by a wall of isolation. The chances of meeting someone like myself in this world is simply inconsequential to bring up. It would be excellent and supercalifragilisticexpiadous if everybody in the world had IQs of 160s or more. Apart from communicating verbally like most myrmecoids and helminths within the catachthonian surface of the confraternity of stupefied sentient beings on this planet (of course, I'm refering to normal human beings), can easily anticipate the thought processes of each other without even uttering a word, like sagacious savants that have attained the highest form of wisdom and intellect. Both of us have minds(myself and a friend) which are so homologous that we seem to have one unified mind - so unified that we can share the very same esprit de l'escalier after being driven ad nauseam by the same puzzling conundrums of life. Our way of communion seems to be telepathic on the surface and it seems like we are facsimiles of each other - or do the both of us share the form of sentience?Quote:
What the fuck are you talking about? I never understand you.
Arachnoids and other forms of insects only seem to know what they are doing when they in fact do not know what they are doing.
The minions of the declassé within the mammalian kingdom can only know what they are doing.
The average human being knows that he can know without questioning whether or not he knows that he knows. Sages know that they know,know if others know if they know or do not know that they know themselves, or know if others know that the Sage himself knows that he himself knows or not knows, or otherwise.
I am not limited by the reality you may see... I have the ability to control time and thus enabling me to memorize every book in existence. :lol:Quote:
Where do you find the time do research all this stuff?
You're a fucking crack head.Quote:
Originally Posted by discojoe
Edited for gayness.
vnisorhwesfjs
I love you ishy
vbiuwbrjkfd
OK.. thanks, THAT sure explained it well. :8* I need more than a dictionary to read your posts. I think you're the only on here who makes me want to wack my head against the monitor, or study for my chemistry test...Quote:
Originally Posted by theodosis
Congratulations! You've fallen for the same misunderstandings as I have in the past. But from your original post, you sounded like you were bashing high intelligence and those who have it. Next time, don't forget to add some extra qualifiers to show just what side you are really on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ishysquishy
Let's stop here with the insults and forget about what I had said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishy
High intelligence won't get you popularity and the like. That's not what it's used for.
Right. And by humanity you mean Yourself, and who else.Quote:
Originally Posted by theodosis
How big a chunk are you hoping to move in one go. Have you heard of Jehovah's witnesses? They want to do the same.
Self-realisation. And then putting your skills to good use, to make a difference in the world.Quote:
fed-up about the complete lack of intellectual stimulation in my life! How good it would be if I'm surrounded by a throng of profoundly gifted individuals with the same agenda and goals - the best thing I can talk to
So you've alienated all your friends whilst you prepare for life.Quote:
right now is the monitor right in front of me. Guess I will be confined to the
That you yourself created.Quote:
eternal damnation of being besieged by a wall of isolation. The chances of
You're scared of going forth. Maybe you'll be rejected.Quote:
meeting someone like myself in this world is simply inconsequential to bring up. It would be excellent and supercalifragilisticexpiadous if
Well, at least you have your IQ, so you can that as an excuse.Quote:
everybody in the world had IQs of 160s or more. Apart from
[uqote]
communicating verbally like most myrmecoids and helminths within the catachthonian surface of the confraternity of stupefied sentient beings on this planet (of course, I'm refering to normal human beings), can easily
[/quote]
Blah blah big words, intellectual pretentiousness, and a holier than thou attitude.
Have you heard of schizophrenia?Quote:
anticipate the thought processes of each other without even uttering a word, like sagacious savants that have attained the highest form of wisdom and intellect. Both of us have minds(myself and a friend) which
Well, you may as well just move on. Quick quick, we're all going on without you! Time is slipping away.Quote:
are so homologous that we seem to have one unified mind - so unified that we can share the very same esprit de l'escalier after being driven ad nauseam by the same puzzling conundrums of life. Our way of communion
You have one friend, who can you speak with big words, and mock everyone else. Do you cuddle each other late at night, when no-one can see?Quote:
seems to be telepathic on the surface and it seems like we are facsimiles of each other - or do the both of us share the form of sentience?
You're scared of realising that there's no point to doing what you're doing, so you close your eyes.Quote:
Arachnoids and other forms of insects only seem to know what they are doing when they in fact do not know what they are doing.
So?Quote:
The minions of the declassé within the mammalian kingdom can only know what they are doing.
Huh? Reexplain.Quote:
The average human being knows that he can know without questioning whether or not he knows that he knows. Sages know that they know,know
What's so important about knowing?Quote:
if others know if they know or do not know that they know themselves, or know if others know that the Sage himself knows that he himself knows or not knows, or otherwise.
Edited for gayness.
ok, this guy is just a ******.Quote:
Originally Posted by theodosis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cone
Mines, not really.
ps. hey, I like theo's lexicon, what's the bashing for
Intellectual stimulation comes from applied intellect. Why don't you start something? Some project that would allow you to use that intelect you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by theodosis
I'm by no stretch of imagination genius BUT I do know a little more than some and I do know I'm smarter then a lot of my peers (they keep telling me that) I feel that I could do more and I do plan to start a crazy project in January. I'm alone but at least I know I don't necessarily need a group.
http://www.sigmacore.net/?p=6
Being the anal INTp that I am I thought I might fix this post.
IQ is no longer that important to me anymore. What's important in how to let humanity realize its ultimate purpose in the universe. I'm so darn fed-up about the complete lack of intellectual stimulation in my life! How good it would be if I'm surrounded by a throng of profoundly gifted individuals with the same agenda and goals - the best thing I can talk to right now is the monitor right in front of me. Guess I will be confined to the eternal damnation of being besieged by a wall of isolation. The chances of meeting someone like myself in this world is simply inconsequential to bring up. It would be excellent and supercalifragilisticexpialidocious (ah, spelling) if everybody in the world had IQs of 160s or more. Apart from communicating verbally like most *myrmecodias (spelling again darling, careful) and helminths within the catachthonian surface of the confraternity of stupefied sentient beings on this planet (of course, I'm referring (Spelling dear) to normal human beings), can easily anticipate the thought processes of each other without even uttering a word, like s**sagacious savants that have attained the highest form of wisdom and intellect. Both of us have minds(myself and a friend) which are so homologous that we seem to have one unified mind - so unified that we can share the very same ***esprit de l'escalier after being driven ad nauseam by the same puzzling conundrums of life. Our way of communion seems to be telepathic on the surface and it seems like we are facsimiles of each other - or do the both of us share the form of sentience?
Arachnoids and other forms of insects only seem to know what they are doing when they in fact do not know what they are doing.
The minions of the déclassé (perhaps? Not very fitting) within the mammalian kingdom can only know what they are doing.
The average human being knows that he can know without questioning whether or not he knows that he knows. Sages know that they know,know if others know if they know or do not know that they know themselves, or know if others know that the Sage himself knows that he himself knows or not knows, or otherwise.
*Underground ants and parasites in Christian cults.… or did you mean chthonian? I don’t know that confuses me. I mean I didn’t know ants could talk.
**I should think one would be rather dull of wit to be a servant, but whatever.
***Forgive me if I am wrong but does that not mean steps?
Well, I hate to say it. But the post makes little to no sense. Looks like a display of INTp arrogance, congratulations, welcome to the club.
Ooh, Theodosis is showing off :) !
The post of his Sycophant quoted says, if I understand it correctly, that he is feeling lonely and that he wants to have more people like him. And that he has one friend who is. He also seems to think that "intelligent" means "able to communicate without communication", and that several of the "lower" animals seem to be able to.
Failed to convince me. If you could restate that post in 4 words, I'd be impressed.
-Me, who is not above average intelligence, but slightly to the north and left of it
fjoiwshfkjsfg
//////
...weird thread. :o Pretty strong feelings on all sides. A bit surreal at times. Not sure everybody was really talking about the same thing. Having a high IQ is not the same thing as being smart, being widely read, being a nerd, knowing a lot of difficult words or being an intellectual snob.
And is intelligence really just a matter of lifestyle and practise? I thought it was inherent and...No, stop, forget I asked. Can't even imagine what THAT discussion would mutate into. :shock: It might make someone innocently wonder whether intelligence could be related to particular functions. *shudder*
Is Theodosis really 16? That would explain a lot.
dude i thought you were working on completing your own language. isnt that stimulating?Quote:
Originally Posted by theodosis
overachievers....
I guess I could throw in my experience of this. Perhaps someone finds it worth the read. Firstly, a person with an IQ of 60 is defined as retarded if I am not wrong. A person with this little intelligence will be hard pressed to find a job that is suitable. In fact, I do not think that you can truly be a secretary with an IQ of 60. The jobs that is suitable for a retard is essentially of the "move these stones and put them there" variety. The idea of a person like this managing to get through medical school (or infact any form of education on a university)is laughable. Of course, you do not have to be a genius, but I would not allow anyone with an IQ below 115 to even think of attending medical school or studying higher levels of math, physics or chemistry on a decent university, because frankly, you do not belong there. Even then, you will have to prepared work your ass off. Other educations on university might be more managable. This can be illustrated by the fact that it is not uncommon that engineering students have to work 12 hours+ a day, particularily in math, and still a lot of them fail the exams. My class mates in medical school probably do not have to put in that much time , but this might be because we do not have any bad students, and everyone is, if not highly intelligent, at least very motivated. This can be compared with some educations where people only have to study 20 hours a week including lectures, and with mediocre students...Quote:
Originally Posted by Transigent
To adress your point of why I believe that the education is relevant, as this point is the thing that prevents a 60IQ person from becoming a doctor. Firstly, at least in Sweden, a farily large amount of the doctors will be involved in research. To get a more qualifying work on a hospital that is linked to a university, it is essentially required to get a phD , and then spend part of the time in research of some sort. To be able to do this, you need a thourough education in medicine. You must also be able to handle more unexpected situations, and to solve these, you need to have more knowledge than the bare minimum required to perform the aspects of the job that you see on TV. Even if you do not remember everything from your education, it is often necessary to have heard of a very extensive amount of material, as you can then react in a completely different way. Instead of having no idea of what to do, you have a vague understanding of what you just encountered, and know where to look if you have to refresh your understanding. Not to mention that you can put it in a greater context, as what you just encountered can be fitted in a context just because you know a lot more than what is being asked of you. Lastly, it is also a part of the job to read about, and understand, the results of future research. This is connected to the point I made above, as you need a farily extensive base of knowledge to be able to truly understand it.
This took a bit more time than expected, so I guess I will have to save my reply to the original subject of this thread until the next time I am hit by an overwhelming urge to procrastinate.